My Mother lives alone and is 95 years old. She is a gambling addict and a hoarder. I went to work tonight and was only their 10 minutes when my son called and said grandma needs you. She has shortness of breath and is shaking. I left work immediately and there were 2 ambulances in her driveway. I rushed up the driveway and they told me she is fine. She just had a panic attack but she wants us to take her to the hospital. I said ok I’ll meet you there. I made up my mind I was telling them everything. The ER doctor checked her over and didn’t find anything wrong. He then took her socks off because she said her toes hurt and all this white dust and stuff came out of her socks. He asked when the last time she changed her socks. She said she couldn’t remember. They immediately brought in a social worker. She told her that her house had clutter and I whispered hoarder so the social worker heard me. She kept trying to talk my mom into having a nurse or aide come to her house. She said no. A few minutes later I got the social worker aside and told her she is not bathing or changing her clothes, or washing her hair, that she won’t do laundry and she is a hoarder with just a path to get around the house. I am crying and pleading at this time and said I’m sorry. She refuses help. There is nothing we can do since she is competent. She said she has to fall or something before anybody can’t intervene. Nobody is calling APS. Not the hospital or the EMTs. There were 3 of them in her filthy house. The social worker told me to call APS if I wanted but don’t be surprised if they say there is nothing we can do because she is competent. This is outrageous. I live in upstate ny and there is no mandatory reporting of a self neglecting individual. Needless to say I had to bring her back home. I got her settled in and then I left.
There probably is some sort of mandatory reporting, but your inclusion of the words 'self neglect' sums up what will be reported after talking w/the patient. If you are of reasonable mind, you do have the right to take a bath when you want, eat crap if you want, and live in an unclean house.
You would get more help with the hoarding if she was renting an apt or house because you could tell the landlord she is destroying the house. If house belongs to her, that's a moot point. Go ahead and call APS just to see what they can do to help you. It can't hurt to let them evaluate. They may be able to guide you to a service to clean it out or make mom think outsiders are going to get involved if she doesn't clean up, especially if there is a bug or rodent problem with the hoard.
She would not have to gone down that way: had multiple chances to let grandkids (!) do the clean out and get things set up for safer living, but no, she didn't want that. She liked her junk. Did not like the nursing home so much though.
It worked kind of like this for my MIL.
It DID NOT WORK for my mother who might just be Elaine1962's mother's twin. She downright refused to budge when the respite option came - yes, spoil her, feed her nice food, tea/coffee/cake and entertainment, sounds so great. But my mother (with dementia diagnosis), and Elaine's mother are not rational, yes competent in the eyes of the law (even with dementia), but not rational.
DugganB - if what you wrote was your experience, you are very very lucky! Being 'wise', POA, and giving notice that codependency would not be tolerated, etc etc DID NOT HELP me or my mother.
Elaine, I hope DugganB's story can be yours and your mother's too. Wishing you all the best, stay strong, breathe, breathe, breathe...
This is how it went with my Mom she too refused help except from me. I believe it was her way of trying to keep control of her life but she instead left control to the system when it finally stepped in.
I have been there, in an ER room in tears begging for help with my hemiplegic 85yr old hoarding mother who insisted on living her life her way and refused to move to an ALF or SNF. They looked at me like I had to handle it myself. I am disabled myself. I ended up calling APS myself to get something on record that I was not neglecting her, I was unable to care for her (the lifting alone was destroying my back), and that she needed help. They also told me that she needed to become seriously hurt or ill before they could do something. About a year before she had broken her collarbone and recovered in a Rehab Facility and then was sent home when she refused to move to their ALF where she could have kept her cats. In another state she again ended up in different Rehab Facility and then a SNF in a private home. She left that facility when she could no longer pay. Medicaid was a mess at the time so she had not received it yet even though she was qualified.
I got her a call button for whenever she fell and couldn’t get up that would contact EMT’s. Finally after several calls to rescue her and she couldn’t pay the bills APS stepped in during an ER visit. She now had Medicaid and with my help we found an ALF that had a bed. She is now in a SNF again with my help to move her. I researched ahead of time what facilities were better and was then able to find a good facility with a bed (covered by Medicaid). Most facilities only have a few. She can no longer leave as she has no one to assist her. She wants to but she is unable to even get to the bathroom without help. She is well cared for and has a great staff but she just won’t accept that her health does not allow her the freedom she wants. Because she would not move when we could plan it she lost her cats that she misses terribly and could not choose what came with her. I am blamed for this and she tries to use that guilt to move me help make her life better.
This is a tough road and it’s hard not to get sucked in by it My family protected me and helped balance me. I hope you have the support you need. Best wishes.
I do think it is time to see an elder attorney to see what you need to do to be off the hook when something happens to her. Also, document everything. Document every person you talked to and the time and date. Maybe ask for written documentation from them. Just protect yourself.
You've touched a very sore subject! Right up there with everyone gets a trophy/medal...although situations like this are dangerous, not just enabling.
Unfortunately unless/until she is deemed incompetent, your hands are tied. Even if you have POA, it doesn't give you any more power over her situation. People misrepresent/misinterpret what this does for you. It only allows, in given situations, you the power to sign documents, make some financial and/or medical decisions for a person, if/when the conditions stipulated in the document take place. Even guardianship is going to be difficult or impossible to get since everyone seems to think your mother is competent. Bad decisions, poor hygiene deplorable living conditions are not deciding factors for competency. Driving rules are also frustrating, with some states like MA stipulating one must "self report" if Dxed with dementia! How ridiculous is THAT??
FWIW - EVEN with dementia people are afforded their "rights." See next paragraph re EC atty, and staff at her MC facility told me they can't force anyone to do anything - they do work on coaxing those who refuse meds, medical treatment, toileting, showers, etc, to get their compliance. I have seen them doing this! So, understand that in your situation it is even worse. There really isn't anything legally that can be done to stop your mother's self-destructive behaviors or change her living conditions.
I DO understand your concerns, both for your mother AND for fear of being investigated or labeled as being abusive or neglectful of her. In our case, mom was in early stages of dementia. Our attempts to intervene were unsuccessful. Despite moving to AL being in her plans before dementia, she adamantly refused help or to move. The EC attorney told us we could NOT force her to move, despite having dementia!!! So, don't feel like you have been singled out by everyone refusing to listen/help. He suggested guardianship, but the facility we had chosen said no, they won't do "committals", so we had to get "creative" to make the move. I also was concerned about how social services, et al would view me/us if we DIDN'T intervene and something happened, whether it be serious illness/injury or death (slightly different as we were aware of the dementia.) We had cameras in a few places to monitor and tried bringing in aides to check on her, but after a short while she refused to let them in (it was only 1 hour/day, the minimum.)
"Won’t I be the one charged with abandonment if I call APS?"
Document everything and send it certified return receipt. I don't see how APS could consider this approach, given she is deemed competent, refuses help and doesn't live with you. You are making contact out of concern, not because you are moving out and leaving her alone.
"I called APS anonymously before and they asked me if I was abusing my mother."
What a stupid person that was. WHO would call APS if they WERE abusing anyone??? That person needs to consider a career change (or a brain transplant.)
RE EMTs: "Can you get them to be a witness for you by giving a report of her when they arrived at her home?"
I would think ANYTHING the EMTs or doctors know/have to say would be considered information they can't divulge to you under the HIPPA laws, esp since they deem her competent. I doubt you will get anything in writing from any of them or the SWs.
"What are you going to do if you fall down the stairs?"
When I asked my mother (again, she had/has dementia) what she would do if she fell and couldn't get up. Her response was that she doesn't go down the stairs (finished basement in condo.) This was NOT a true statement, since one of the cameras we had monitored the basement area and she was seen on it several times! But, I only replied I didn't say anything about the stairs, to which she replied "I'll get help." Sure mom.
A few suggestions to follow...
Taking it another step - I can't find the post, but I thought you said you are the only one she allows in the house. Would it be possible to get in there, with your son, and while distracting her have him install at least one camera in a location she might not notice, but would frequently go to, such as the kitchen? This would allow you to monitor activity. If she goes there every day, and suddenly doesn't, you could request a welfare check from the PD (I wouldn't mention the camera to the PD, just say she isn't answering your calls. I had to do that once for mom, because she managed to turn the ringer off the phone and I couldn't get her to answer for 2 days! They went and the officer found the ringer off - she was smart enough to push the button with my name on it to call me, then ask me to call back to confirm the ringer was on! Mom: Oh that daughter of mine...)
I didn't check the details, but did find this:
"Arlo Go Mobile Security Camera is the ideal security monitoring solution when traveling or in areas with limited or no WiFi access. Arlo Go works anywhere by supporting 3G/4G LTE wireless connections."
To save money (initially anyway) I switched mom's phone to Fios and added internet/WiFi, which also allowed us internet access when we were there. The cameras YB installed worked with the Wifi and it was this brand. If she has no internet/WiFi, this camera or a similar one might work. Their app works with my phone and YBs (mine in Android, his is apple.)
IF you can get it in and hidden where she won't notice it, it will be a great help and take some concern off your shoulders, but also keep you out to avoid the verbal abuse and deplorable conditions. Perhaps if/when you can take her for a doc appt in the nicer weather have son do the install, if there's no way to get in now. It was a great help for us as it was over an hour drive for YB (and he is still working), more like 1.5 hour for me. We used one outside and another inside the door to monitor who went in/out and it also could see her kitchen table, and another in the basement.) The first 2 were high enough she couldn't reach or really notice them, the basement one had to be moved later. She picked it up once, and we got the panoramic view of the basement room, ceiling, her face close up, etc, as she didn't recognize what it was and was "checking" it out!
Addition: If/when you can get her to the doc for exam, the "mini" test they do likely won't be enough to determine her competence. I suspect she really isn't going to be Dxed with this - not at this time. Poor judgement can be part of dementia, however it might just be poor judgement. There are other more important signs of dementia that don't seem to be apparent in your mother's case. The fact that she got insurance to do her roof and garage door are actually pretty impressive! Granted, that was a while ago, but the issues you have concerns about didn't show up overnight, so it is likely she has had these issues for a long time!
I pity all the people who think "safety" is the most important thing for their "loved ones." Hopefully they will be treated better than that when they have the misfortune to get old.
Mm. You put your finger on it right there. Yes. The law says it is acceptable. Your mission is to work on accepting it.
Taking one bit at random, more or less - you say your mother will only let you in the house, no one else. But if you didn't go in, if you weren't an option for Person She Will Allow Inside The House, just say... She'd have to let somebody else in if she needed to, wouldn't she? And if she never needed to... then what's the problem?
Let your imagination roam free in the ideal world for a moment: where would your mother be living, what would be going on in her life?
The hospital says she is competent to live alone, PT says she is mobile enough to ambulate independently.
If there is an "emergency" call 911 and the let hospital deal with it.
(((((Hugs))))))
I especially think that you need to see an eldercare attorney (it's a legitimate use of MOM'S money) to understand better how AL, when mom needs it will be paid for. You dont sign over the house. Mom can apply for Medicaid and still own the house. I think that AL in NYS can be paid for through a Medicaid waiver program, but there may be a waiting list. Please contact the eldercare lawyer and make an appointment so you get a better understanding of how this will work.
((((Hugs))))
And the waivers for AL are a different animal altogether.
In addition to speaking with an eldercare attorney on your mother's behalf, now might be a good time to start visiting g Assisted Living and Nursing Home facilities. Find out prices, get brochures. At some point, you will need to tell some discharge planner where you want your mom placed. From experience, I can tell you that it's better if you do these visits when you are not under the gun and trying to get mom placed quickly.
Look, I've seen elder care play out both ways; my own mom was fairly cooperative and when my brothers and I said "no, we are not going to show up for your non-emergencies", she went into a nice Independent Living facility.
My MIL refused care; my DH, whom she accused of elder abuse walked away.
She ended up hospitalized with serious cardiac issues, had a stroke, refused rehab and starved herself to death. Not pleasant, but my husband stood firm and refused to take her abusive behavior.
Some people, Elaine, are their own worst enemies. They don't trust their own children to do what is right for them and end up in the care of the state. There isn't anything you can do to change who your mom is.
There is NOTHING that says that her demands (she will only allow you in her house) outweigh YOUR right to a peaceful and productive life.
I hope you can stay clear of her and gain some clarity. ((((Hugs)))))))