Is it normal she's so negative?

What works best for a semblance of conversation is she talks non-stop about nothing and I say, "oh, how nice, uh-huh," . She might be pretending to be in a conversation because her hearing is bad, she doesn't know how to relate to me anymore since I changed our pattern of abuse, or maybe she doesn't really care about someone else. I am telling myself more that she can't help the way she is and she is doing the best she can, but my heart cannot and will not open up in her presence.

Very interesting suggestion, Babalou. I was just observing myself with my mother today when we went shopping. I am cold, distant, but try to be civil. I am tense and have a hard time relaxing with her, even when she is in a good mood. I see that I am using all my energy to keep a lid on the myriad feelings I have about her. I let it out with a joke about other things around us. I felt guilty I am not more loving and close, but then wait a minute: she doesn't let that happen either. She'll turn on you like a caged animal when you least expect it if you displease her. I am shut down and done with trying to please her and I am struggling to find out how to respond in another, a different way. Thanks for bringing this up with Jewel.
Jewel, I hope this all is helpful.
My counselor also suggested I find a different way: so did my friends, and three doctors who told me my mother has a "toxic effect" on me!!

Hey all...just wanted to pass this along, in case you need a chuckle. Remember I said that I sent my mother flowers a few days before Thanksgiving? With a note, from my husband and me. Even summoned the strength to sign it "love...". And never received any response, which was expected, and is actually fine (no contact works better when neither of us contacts the other). Well, yesterday and today, I was doing my usual monitoring of her credit card purchases, and noticed that she did go to her local florist and order an arrangement to be delivered. To whom, I wondered -- sincerely hoping it wasn't me, because then I wouldn't know how to re-assess things, and I truly don't have the energy or desire to do so.
I called the florist today to confirm delivery, and discovered that she sent them to Nosy Neighbor Lady! Who, thank goodness, I haven't heard from in about 3 months now, but I guess she's still involved w/my mother. They give me such an icky feeling. Two nasty people, posing as sweet do-gooders.

cmagnum--thank you for your kind words and great advice. I don't know why I sometimes feel like I have it together and set clear and effective boundaries and then go backwards to feeling like an inadequate child--looking for that approval. I frustrate myself--I want to maintain the healthy me. Therapy could be an option. I just wanted you to know how much I appreciated your post.

Think about this Jewel. You are an adult. You have a relationship with another adul. You are spend an awful lot of time trying to get that other adult to respond to you as a fellow adult, but she hasn't for a very long tijr. Why would you continue to respond in the same ways? Respond in a very different way.

Emjo: There you are!! I have been worried about you. Glad to see you are back. I almost called the AL and told the director not to tell mom I asked for the cake, then I decided that I wanted to have them make her a cake, so there it is. She can say what ever she likes about it. I will eat it. Ha! You are so right, she will not be happy either way. She is begging me to move her to a house. I mean begging plus saying things that make me feel really guilty that she is not happy. I also realize she won't be happy if I move her. I am not doing anything right now, I am waiting until summer and then we will see.

CM: I am not too much on birthdays either, but when my daughter gave me a surprise party in November, I told her how much I appreciated it. I don't think my mom ever had inhibitions.. I do believe she is losing what she had.

Babalou: I haven't been to therapy yet. I cannot afford it right now, but I do need to find a way in the worst way. I need to get these things off my chest out loud. I was going to talk to my pastor, but they moved and left the church.

I go to my mom's tomorrow for her non-birthday. We decided not to wrap the gifts so she won't freak out too bad. If she thinks my daughter picked out some of it, she will not say too much about it. She at least keeps her cool around her. I pray she doesn't want us to come back for their Christmas dinner at the AL. If she does, then I will suck it up and go. She isn't too bad around others, but it is very uncomfortable, because she doesn't treat my family very nice. She used to and it is hard to watch her treat them how she probably really felt about them, but now the filter is getting very thin.

Jewel, have you gone back to therapy?

Exactly what Emjo said - you can't please her so you might just as well please yourself.

Um. I hate my birthdays, too! Discreet acknowledgement is about all I can handle, if I'm honest about how comfortable I feel. But at least I have the manners to stick a smile on and be grateful for people's thinking of me - she's not losing inhibitions or something, is she?

jewel - you will never win that battle. She will make sure of that.It is a waste of your time and energy. Let it go.Decide for yourself what you want to do for her birthday or whatever, and do it and don't look to her for approval. If you want to take her for dinner - fine, if you don't, fine too. Either way she will not be happy. Do what is good for you.

Sunday I didn't go to my mom's, I haven't been yet this week. I called her tonight and told her I wasn't coming and that I would be there Friday for her birthday. Silence--once again.

Mom: Friday?
Me: Yes, Friday for your birthday.
Mom: Did you get the thing in the mail about the Christmas dinner here for Friday?
Me: Yes, I wasn't sure if you wanted to do that.
Mom: I don't know.
Me: Well, I will see you Friday.
Mom: I don't want a birthday.
Me: Ok
Mom: Don't buy me flowers.--She hates flowers, who hates flowers? smh
Me: Ok, with a laugh.
Mom: Don't get me a cake.
Me: I won't.
Mom: I don't want presents either.
Me: ok, mom...I will see you Friday.
Mom: Silence--I don't really want a birthday. Don't get me anything.
Me: Ok, gotta go, see you Friday and you can let me know what you want to do about the dinner.
Mom: --click-

Who doesn't like to be thought of on their birthday? Um, my mom. She always complains that I don't do enough for her, but when I try--which is every week... She decides she don't want me too. I am climbing an uphill battle.

I really hope she doesn't want to do the dinner on Friday evening because I will just have to hear how everyone seemed bored.--if my family doesn't dote on her, she thinks they are bored. I pray she decides for us not to come. All she has to do is say it once. Ha!--no begging here. That is one thing I have completely stopped with her is begging. I used to beg her to do things, but now when she says no, I take no for an answer.

Hope everyone is ready for Christmas. I am trying very hard to get in the spirit of things but this year has reamed very difficult.

Jewel, I love that quote. Right on target. I wanted people to realize that I was not just cooking, cleaning or whatever. There are so many unseen or unnoticed things the caregiver does. No one will recognize that if they are not around to experience it!

njny1952, please don't leave your job in an attempt to appease your mother or just to relieve your anxiety. You have your own life as an adult to tend to and she is in independent living. It is not your job to keep her from being upset with her. If she is upset with you because you are living your life as an adult while she is in independent living then that is her problem not yours. As adults, we must detach our lives from the lives of our parents. Otherwise, we spend our entire life seeking their approval and if they were not loving parents, then seeking the love we never got. If you are finding that your mom is living in your head too much, then a therapist might help you detach with love so that you can live your own life without her in your head so much. This anxiety thing is a button that your mother placed deep in your mind as a child and it usually takes getting professional help to find freedom. Take care of yourself and your life!

Jewel, you asked "I have prayed that God change her mind about being so hateful. I wish all of a sudden she would be kind, sweet, caring, forgiving, and a pleasure to be around. Is that too much to ask?"

It is not too much to ask. However, God has given each person a free will and God will not override your mother's free will to be different that the way she chooses to be. Unless she's open to God changing her heart, it is not going to happen.

Jewel, no, it's not bravery. I still feel badly that this is how things have to be in order to provide the care she needs, and the sanity I need. I still spend way too much energy justifying my actions by 1) listing all the times she's been nasty, bullheaded, unreasonable, bratty, haughty, and nay-saying and 2) all the times I've tried over and over, putting up with one thing after another, my efforts being completely undermined and messed up, my time, attention, good will, and hopeful optimism never appreciated. I still run tapes in my head way too often.
The only thing that keeps me on this path right now is that it's working better than any other attempt ever has. AND, everyone else who's commented on how they've kept contact to the minimum, or gone completely no contact -- they ALL say that their only regret is that they didn't do it sooner. That always gives me food for thought.
I hope your visit this week goes by as quickly and painlessly as possible. Good luck! Hugs...

Here is a quote that a friend shared....

"Caregivers are often the casualties, the hidden victims.
No one sees the sacrifies they make."-- Judith London

I couldn't agree more!!

Looloo, or should I call you RobinHood...Ha! You are so brave. I wish I could get to that point. I am working toward it, but it is so difficult. Only because I chose it to be--I realize this honestly, but.... you know the drill.

While watching Joyce Meyer last night with my daughter, I realized even more of how I need to move forward from her and stop letting her control my thoughts. My mind tells me one thing and my heart tells me something else. Our minds are powerful things. My mind lets all these negative thoughts enter and my heart says don't believe it. When I talk to "her" then my mind goes crazy with negative thoughts and it consumes me. I will continue to work on this.

Another thing that drives me crazy is the lying that I have to do with her. I am always covering my tracks and telling her things that she would rather here, than the truth. If I am honest, I will even be in worse shape.--hard to comprehend but it is the way it rolls. I know this stems from the lifelong path she has set before me. My aunt tried to be honest with her the other day about some things dealing with my grandmother's estate and my mom went off--literally. Threw a fit, got mad, yelled, etc. I didn't tell my mom these things for I didn't want to get the blunt of it. My aunt agreed to do it. Now, I am dreading going to my mom's this week because it will be a living h*ll. We both agreed to lie to her about another issue with the estate and now I am back tracking to make sure the lie stays under the rock. Whew!! How exhausting. My chest hurts and my head hurts just thinking about it all. I will be SO glad when this estate thing is settled and I can finally tell her it is over and I don't want to discuss it anymore. My aunt is trying very hard to get everything settled so we can move forward. My mom has had ample opportunity to discuss, choose, make decisions and give her ideas. But NO, she would always say, "this makes me nervous and I can't make decisions"...that was her excuse anyway. Now, that most things have been done, she is angry and now giving her opinion about the way things should have been done. I have told her that it is too late to do her ideas. I also told her she had great ideas, but we cannot go back and redo things. This is where she hasn't changed, she lets others make decisoins, then she gets angry because it wasn't the way she thought it should be done. UUGH!! I am more than tired of the repercussions from her. Do it this way it is wrong, do it that way it is wrong.

One other thing on my mind...My grandmother had some personal belongings that my mom has chosen from. She didn't want anything but a couple of items and she asked my aunt what she was going to do with what was left over. My aunt told her she was going to let the rest of the family go through them. My mom got really mad and told her no. She is so selfish. She doesn't want it, but doesn't want anyone else to have them. One more thing I will have to hear about when I go visit. Her birthday is this week and I know the right thing to do is go visit on that day, but it will not be enjoyable. I have prayed that God change her mind about being so hateful. I wish all of a sudden she would be kind, sweet, caring, forgiving, and a pleasure to be around. Is that too much to ask?

Hi everyone, I haven't been on too much, so just popping on to say hi. No excitement here, which is good. Just getting stuff done for my mother -- end of year filing, mailed her quarterly tax payments, shipped her usual magazines and an order of books she purchased, got her Rx's refilled, re-scheduled her home care for Christmas and New Years week, stopped a few more phone solicitors -- I hope!, followed up with her gardener because I haven't seen a bill at all yet, and her authorization for an EEG came through so I made an appt for that for the first week of January. I did some quick online research to find out exactly what the doctor will learn about her cognitive condition by looking at an EEG. Technology is simply incredible. Sad that there is no cure, but amazing how far things have come in such a short time.
So, I requested a day off from work on her appointment day (she better not cancel!), and while she's at the doctor, I will go into her house, check things out to see how everything looks, and so on, and will also gather some files that I'll need one of these days.
I've decided to give my once-every-3-weeks therapy appointments a rest after the one I have scheduled for next week. I think I've gotten to the "beating a dead horse" stage of things, which isn't a bad thing. If a crisis comes up, I reserve the right to make another appointment. :) Take care, everyone!

You are right, my mother isn't totally out of it. Her memory is so much better since she has been in AL. She recalls things I wish she didn't. She always takes things out of context when she is recalling something I said or something someone else has said. This is nothing new, but it is much worse than before. Her reasoning skills are worse, but for the most part, she is very sharp. I am always staying a step ahead of her. Like I have stated before, she doesn't take the truth very well. When I am honest with her about things she gets so angry. When I fib or change up the story a bit, she still gets angry; but not near as bad as if I had told her the truth. If she thinks it's the truth, then I am fine with that. It is really hard to keep up with. She will randomly call me and ask me quesitons and I swear I think she does it to try to "catch" me telling her a lie so then she can get even more mad at me. My husband even ask me how I keep up with it all. I laughed and told him she is the only person I lie to, so I can keep up with that. Ha ha! I am stressed over it, but I pray that God understands why I have to fib and stretch the truth from time to time.

Yesterday my husband and I went Christmas shopping and I didn't call her to tell her...I was so proud of myself for not calling. I normally call every Saturday to remind her I will be up on Sunday. I did not call and it was so freeing. Well... She called me around 1 pm and I didn't answer. She left a message on accident--not hanging up when the message came on. She was talking to someone and I realized it was my aunt. She had gone for a visit. Then I was nervous to call her back because I felt like she was setting us up for failure. I figured she was going to ask questions trying to "catch" us in something. Just realize I think this way, because this is how my mom works now and how she worked before.--that part of her hasn't changed one bit. MANIPULATION
After about an hour, I decided to get it over with. I called her and she had a question for me, but it was about where I had put something. I truly believe though she was calling to see where I was. I am even more proud of myself because I called her today, Sunday, and told her I was NOT coming up today. YAY for me!!! I did tell her I would come either Tuesday or Wednesday. SILENCE! Then she said, "ok" and hung up. She no longer says bye. Weird. But that's okay with me. A quick click and done. I am keeping my eyes on Jesus and not her anger. It is helping me so much. It is not my fault she is angry, she is angry with me, but I didn't intentionally cause the anger--therefore, making it her issue. Such a breakthrough for me to realize that it is NOT my fault. Do I do things that make her angry? I am sure I do, but I am not being a brat of a daughter ignoring my mom. I am being true to myself which in turn makes her upset and a reason to find more manipulation. She likes to make me feel like I am wrong by putting myself and my family first. In her eyes she is supposed to come first. SMH!! She didn't put her parents first, she made sure we were taken care of first. I haven't been around a more selfish person.

I am just glad I have the day off. I will dread the next visit, because she will store this in her brain for ammunition for when I do come.

Enjoy your Sunday!!

Oh gosh, "I could be dead and you wouldn't know it."....Those are the famous words. My mom says that at least once a week. She used to say it a lot when she would get mad and not talk to me for weeks and I would end up calling her--the right thing to do, and she would say that to me...instead of "I am so glad you called". My always says sarcastic things but dares me to talk to her like that. I can offer to go out and get her something different to eat and she will always refuse, but then say "I guess I will just starve".

I haven't called my mom since Thursday after her little fiasco about the pill box. Since I make it worse when I come, then I will not call either.--well today anyway. Ha! I am not calling tomorrow either because my husband and I are going Christmas shopping. My daughter is in from college and I will get her to go with me Sunday, so this week should be easier.

Judda: hope all goes well with your dad, so I assume your parents are divorced, like mine?

Guestshop, I think you are so right about the mom recognizing the pill refill means she might not get a visit and manipulating the situation so she is guaranteed a visit. They are sometimes cagier than we suspect. And I have heard the eye-rolling statements like "I'll just sit here in the dark and go blind." I would beg my mom to please tell me when something went wrong so I could fix it right away and she flatly stated she would never tell me. I explained it made my life easier because otherwise I would have to guess and keep checking to make sure things were ok and she was comfortable. Nope, not gonna tell you. Guess what- she would prefer that I run over there several times a day checking on her. She SAYS she doesn't want to bother me, but when you tell them what will make life easier for the both of you and they flat out refuse to do so, well, I guess she does want to bother me. A lot. And then if I don't, she can complain to other people that not only did I not come to see her, but she has also been sitting there in the dark all this time!!! You don't look forward to seeing someone anyway when the first thing out of their mouth is, "I could have been sitting over here dead since yesterday and you wouldn't have known." Aye-yi-yi

So my father had an ulcer and I may be going to spend the weekend taking care of him. He's stubborn about things but at least he is not trippy. He's a sweet man and many love him.

Hmm and the Narcissist must rely on FOG to manipulate you because they clearly have no real love and respect for anyone but themselves and therefore can't get it from others. Reminds me of drug addicts who must have pills to help them cope with life and others (prescription and illegal): drugs are not seen by the human body to be vitamins or supplements, you understand. So this artificial substance is meant to control them but their inner minds, or souls still feel the truth. Can't you see it in their faces? Glints of consciousness, shame, fear of rejection, even think shards of love coming through their confusion. It's utterly pathetic! I too alternate with compassion and frustration when I am thinking about them. I want to be free to love my mother but she makes it impossible. I tell myself it is old age. It is mental illness. But all those mind games and drama queen scenes she seems to enjoy reliving make it hard to see who the heck she is. Will the real person ever step forward? No. Certainly not anymore. I feel for all of us experiencing this over and over. It sure feels endless and there are times I feel certain she is killing me.

jewel, the combination of narc mom and dementia must be really challenging for you. My mom's health issues don't include dementia, but one thing that has helped me is to remember that she's always trying to keep control which means keeping me on the defensive. For her, it's usually trying to make me feel guilty for something and then I'm apologizing and trying to make her feel better. It's helped me stay level by not apologizing for things that are normal, like missing her calls because I'm in a meeting at work. Or feeling guilty because I spent the day with my granddaughter, not my mom. When she tells me about everyone else's doting children, I don't explain things she's not interested in - my work load, my husband's health issues, etc. If I need to explain being distracted or sounding "funny", I just gloss it over by saying "I'm tired". If she's really pissed and on a roll, I just say we're not going over that ground again and if need be, I suddenly need to use the restroom. Disengage. I know it's really hard to disengage, detach when you're worn out and getting lambasted again. But the less you give the desired reaction, the more of the control you get to take back.

Jeweltone--I have offered and felt the need to leave work so many times to appease my mother or just to relieve my own anxiety. It is a constant worry--I hate being conflicted--I have to take care of business at my job, but I don't want her upset with me. The hoops have gotten too hard to manage and too plentiful to count. I sometimes think I am afraid of my own anxiety surrounding her rather than actually being afraid of her. The anxiety is so gripping--I am working so hard to try and manage it. It is TOUGH!!!
I get the pill thing--you cannot win--no matter what. I do wish that your mother could be put back on the same sedative that helped her be more calm long ago--maybe a smaller dosage? My heart goes out to you because "her in your head" is taking up so much of your life. I know this all too well.

Jewel, my heart goes out to you. Passive aggressive narcissists. UGH. My husband was out of work for 4 months earlier this year and I know that it affected how I dealt with my job and my son.
Something in earlier post stood out to me. "I filled her pill box from Sunday night to today again, just in case I decide not to go then she has it ready for next week too." YOUR MOTHER IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF IT, SHE CAN FIGURE IT OUT-YOU MAY NOT COME THIS WEEK.
Then you have this comment in your later post AFTER you did not call her back immediately and the meltdown. "She went on to tell me what pills were missing and what pills I had put in there--she knows, but wants to complain and let me know I did it wrong instead of just fixing it."
Yes, you could be making terrible mistakes because you are a "bad careless daughter". Or you could be getting set up/punished when you indicate that you *might* not come back when your mother wants you to. She is fussing around you when she knows that it makes you flustered and more prone to mistakes. My mom would play victim head games sometimes too (don't change the light bulb, I'll just still here in the dark going blind). My husband leaves out crucial bits of info about stuff regarding my in-laws if he thinks I will not do something he/they want so there is not time for alternatives to what they or he want done.
If the facility does not offer medication aides, tell your mother that you will arrange for a medication aide to come fill her bottle and she can pay for it.
Boundary is my middle name. Narcissists want help when they want the way they want it. And if you are beaten down enough, you don't think about alternatives. FOG fear obligation guilt. (hugs)

njny... In that respect you're correct... I was thinking in terms of the 'situation at hand' being temporary. But, very good point. I for one always have to work on the 'approval' aspect. And, support is so very important (when you can get it). Thank you.

Heart2Heart--sometimes it does feel like the Twilight Zone, but the "temporary" notion eludes me. Mothers can outlive their caregivers. Somehow we girlfriends have to band together and form superglue so we can stick to our decisions to have reasonable boundaries and take care of ourselves--and quit looking for mother love and approval that will NEVER BE FORTHCOMING!

Jewel, would it be a violation of policy if you could pay a staff person at your mother's place a little extra $ to do your mother's pills? Whatever's fair -- $10, $20??? Out of your mother's account.

I understand how being a caregiver can get you in a Twilight Zone that you can't seem to get out of. One thing that helps me is know that it's 'temporary'... You just have to keep trying different things (for both sides) and see what works... keep asking a lot of questions (to anyone, especially those in this arena)... In between, force yourself to get away to ground yourself. I/we know how difficult it all is... but, you'll be ok... we can only do the best we can... xoxoxo

As I have stated, she has been on almost all antidepressants including they added abilfy to them to try to help. NOTHING works. She sometimes gets worse while on them. The anxiety medicine was working to a degree and now we have even added one at night time too. To name a few, lexapro, paxil, zoloft, abilify, ativan, prozac, some I can't remember the names. This has been over a course of three years not just a couple months. They have tried everything. They gave her a sedative last year to keep her mind still and it worked so well. As she started getting better, they weaned her off of the sedative and here we are again. Being at the AL she wouldn't be able to be on the sedative because it is independent living. I liked it much better when she slept most of the time. At least she was quiet.

Quiet? What would that feel like again? I surely would like to know. Her mouth never stops. I called her back this morning with dread and of course it turned out I did something wrong once again. While I am there she makes me a nervous wreck fussing over things.--anything. So, I filled her pill box wrong. SMH!! When I called her and apologized for not seeing that she called until late, the first thing out of her mouth was, "I don't know what you did to these pills, but they are all wrong", "you have two in one spot and three in another". "You have left out pills" "now I am confused and don't know what I am supposed to take". Once again, I apologized and offered to leave work to fix them. She went on to tell me what pills were missing and what pills I had put in there--she knows, but wants to complain and let me know I did it wrong instead of just fixing it. Again, I offered to come fix them. She said, "Nevermind, I don't want you to come fix them, it just makes it worse when you come." "I don't know what you have on your mind, but it is something" When I tried to explain, she cut me off and said, "I will fix them myself the best I can, I probably will do it wrong, but I don't want you to come" Defeat first thing in the morning. She will NEVER accept me as a human that makes mistakes. She thinks my mind she only be on her. Well, little does she know that it IS her on my mind and that is what is wrong with me. She will never understand. Rejection, defeat, and frustration--the center of my life. She has no idea what all I go through with her and not only her, but I think I mentioned, or maybe not, that my husband got a $4 an hour pay cut. It is taking a toll on us, our finances, and to add my mom to the mix is really getting me down. I have explained to her before about my husband and his job, but that doesn't cross her mind--only she is on her mind. ME, ME, ME!! What about ME? That is all this is about. I will tell you the truth and nothing but the truth, I really don't care. I used to care and did things for her because I care. Now, I do it for two reasons, for Him, and because I feel it is my obligation as a daughter. I wish she would fall into the black hole she has put forth for everyone else.

That is my rant this morning...thanks for listening. You are good people and I appreciate you so much!!