Is it too late to put dad's cash assets into a trust?

Is the existing trust revocable or irrevocable. If you are applying for Medicaid it makes a difference. Also the funds need to be in the irrevocable trust for five years to not be subject to Medicaid rules.

You would get the best answers from the lawyer(s) who created the trust for his home. I would also suggest that he not use his phone to handle his finances. Many phones have apps to block calls from anybody except people already in his address book.

A trust is a very good idea. In fact, the cost of probating a will after a passing will generally be as much as a trust.

The age is not the issue but his testamentary capacity. (sound familiar?

A lawyer will talk to your dad about these issues: (cut and paste from a site)

(1) Understand the nature of the testamentary act. (2) Understand and recollect the nature and situation of their property. (3) Understand who their close relatives are and how they will be affected by the will. (4) The testator must not suffer from a mental disorder.

A lawyer will interview your dad to determine this. This not the same as a psychological assessment. That has to be done by a psychological/medical professional.

But the lawyer has to believe the person essentially knows what they are doing,, otherwise it could come back to bite the lawyer.

Given there is already a trust for the house, other assets should be able to be transferred into it but again the lawyer has to be assured your father knows what he is doing.

Always talk to a trust attorney / elder care trust attorney re financial matters.
Change his phone number - he should not be subjected to these call(s/ers) at all.
And perhaps consider that he should not be on Facebook at all.
It is 'too' easy for him to potentially give a stranger information that could put him in harms way - an address, a birthdate ... ss # - you do not know what he might do which would be a major problem for him financially and otherwise.

There are scammers all over the place just looking for a vulnerable elder person.

As you need to, block him from using Facebook, computer-media options.
Change his password(s). You SHOULD / NEED TO KNOW WHAT ALL HIS PASSWORDS ARE AND WHERE THEY ARE .

It is just too easy for a person to be scammed. I was and I am / was (?) aware and much younger. It never dawned on me ... when on a dating website. They are just hovering - looking for older women. I am sure it goes the same for an older man. Do not allow this to continue (is my advice).

Gena / Touch Matters

To answer your questions fully, I would talk to the lawyer that drew up your Dad's will and trust. Assuming that your Dad has a trust that has his house, yes, that same trust can be used for any other financial assets, including bank accounts.

However, I would not put his "working" bank account on a trust. As someone suggested, I would split the bank account into 2 (or more), The "working" bank account could be used to pay his bills and receive his income checks. I believe this account should be a joint account. Therefore, when your Dad passes, the other person on the account, can still pay bills using the funds in the account. I would then put a good amount of money into a savings account at the same bank. Then if the funds are needed in the savings account or there is too much money in the "working" account, you can transfer the money to/from the savings account. Then the rest of the funds, I'd do multiple CDs, trying to get the best interest rate for the least amount of reasonable time. If the CDs are held in a joint account, the money will become accessible without penalty only at the maturity date.

I would talk to a banker at your Dad's bank and get his suggestions on how to title and break up the money. Your Dad doesn't need to be there to have this hypothetical discussion. However, changing how your Dad's money is titled, will require him to be there and authorize the changes.

I will tell you that your Dad will find this all very confusing. He wants to simplify his finances by putting everything into one account. However, as others have pointed out, by putting everything into one account, it also means that it is easier for a scammer to get larger sums.

I refused to put all the money into one account because I knew that if my Mom saw the total sum of the money, she would think it okay to just give it away, yet we needed it for her care. For the last few years of dementia, she really had no idea of the magnitude of how much her care cost. I purposely switched all the statements to online-only, because when she received the statements in the mail, she instantly wanted to give gifts to everyone as she believed her care costs were minimal. When that started happening, I thoroughly understood why one hears of caregivers getting very expensive gifts from their patients as my Mom was offering the caregivers gifts and not remembering or understanding the impact of what she was doing.

A trust is not the answer to everything. By putting assets (cash, house, cars, etc.) into a trust, you are bypassing the process called probate and there possibly might be tax advantages to your Dad's estate when he dies. However, if your Dad were to die, I believe all the assets held under the trust will be "frozen" until after the estate is settled. In the meantime, there are bills to be paid (electricity, mortgage, property taxes, funeral costs, etc.) and that money is inaccessible. However, accounts held in joint, are still accessible to the "other" person on the account.

I would contact your Dad's lawyer and banker and see what they suggest. It is well worth your peace of mind to ensure you can pay for his care with his money until he dies, and that you can pay for any personal expenses after he dies (like his funeral, plot, urn, etc.)

Regarding Medicaid, I believe they look at all of his assets under his name, joint as well as those held in trust.

Lovesgirl: Pose your questions to an attorney.

If it were me, my first “emergency triage” would be to have him open a savings account at a separate bank and transfer the bulk of his money into that account, thereby cutting off the scammer’s access to the bulk of his funds. Make sure he gives you joint authority to manage that account. Alternatively, if he already has a revocable trust set up you could probably just have him open the new account under the existing trust. The idea is to protect the bulk of his money. Then leave a nominal amount in the original bank and have his credit card limit adjusted to a small amount that you can afford to lose if he gets scammed. It is possible that some of the protections that cards come with may help restore losses from scams - but don’t count on it. The idea is to not completely upset him by closing off what he is used to. But at the same time limit his exposure to loss. Then watch his accounts carefully and immediately report anything out of whack. These are time sensitive steps to take because he could be scammed any day, any time. You need to cut off the access of scammers to the bulk of his money.

Next, get with his trust attorney or an attorney who specializes in elder estate planning and make sure you have everything you need to help. Who has financial and medical POA? Who is Trustee (after death)? Are you joint or an authorized signer on his bank accounts?

Regarding cyber safety, if he has an iPhone, there is a setting that silences unknown calls from people not listed in his contacts. That stops the ringing but they can still leave a voicemail or text him. Use the blocking feature to block every unknown number that shows up on his phone from making additional calls. Make sure his contacts are up to date with medical providers, known friends and family, etc, so they won’t be blocked. Try to convince him that he should never click on any link. While you are. Take any steps possible to intercept and get rid of most junk mail coming into his house - especially if it is soliciting money.

Try to take some immediate protective steps with his accounts and also get with a qualified attorney for further guidance. Good luck.

Speak to your elder law attorney to best advise you rules in your state.

The most immediate thing you can do is to move his cash (assuming it is in a checking account) into a savings account (assuming he has one at same bank). It is much harder for him to access these funds if he isn't savvy enough to know how to do Zelle or transfers, etc.

As another responder suggested, give him a pre-paid Visa card with a low balance and block him from accessing social media and his online banking. Please be aware that this may significantly ramp up his paranoia.

Giving him a GrandPad or a dementia-friend device may also be a good strategy. You can being using "therapeutic fibs" with him, like: there's something wrong with his internet account and that's why his wifi access isn't working correctly, etc.

Creating a trust would protect his money from himself, but depending on what state he lives in and how extensive his assets are, can cost a minimum of $1K (based on personal experience of a participant on this site). Me personally in MN it cost us $3600. It is a lot of work to set it up. He has to be assessed by the attorney (not the doctor) that he meets the criteria for legal cognitive capacity. This is usually done by the attorney privately interviewing him to ask him questions and to also make sure he is not being pressured into taking this action.) Please note that (depending on the home state) "capacity" is a low bar, so even if he is forgetful or has very mild dementia, he may still be able to perform certain legal acts such as this.

If you are not his PoA, you (or someone) needs to be. This should happen before creating a trust. If he doesn't have capacity, he won't be able to do it.

I cannot attest to this personally, but other members have mentioned it here. In order to protect elders from scammers there is a prepaid VISA called True Link Visa Card that your Dad can use, and there is no way for someone to get any more money than is actually loaded onto the card each week/month.
If Dad trusts you to take control of the account that has a large amount of money, you could transfer the amount he needs for living expenses onto the prepaid Visa, and protect his larger account from risk.

You shouldn't need a trust to protect his assets from scammers, just put the bulk of the money into an investment certificate that is only accessible at maturity or if you are worried about needing immediate access move it to a different bank altogether.

Living Trusts are just that--alive. You can put money and assets into it and take them out of it with simple amendments to the Trust.

These are attorney questions. If your Dad has a living Trust then he can use IT to pay scammers as well as any other account. Most living trusts have bank accounts on which checks can be written by the trustee. If that remains you Dad, he can use trust money from a living trust any way he wishes.

You badly need the advice of an attorney. See an elder law person. Go with your Dad. Be sure you get a good POA in place, one that allows you to use and manage accounts and bills while your Dad has a sort of "allowance account" for spending. This protects your father. The attorney will explain choices and options.

When my brother was diagnosed with "probable early Lewy's dementia" by his symptoms he made me his POA and his Trustee. I handled all financial things for him and kept records I gave to him monthly and he had his own spending account to use from his assisted living as he chose.

Do see someone to get options for protecting money.
Another option if your Dad is relatively well and can trust himself with his finances is for you to help him mangage accounts monthly and be sure they are locked up in safe CDs.

You really should get together with your Dad and an attorney NOW while Dad is mentally capable of assigning your help to protect him. There will be a lot of options and ways and it will be an education for you, protection for him.

You can get him a grandpad as a phone - it allows phone messages, internet, etc. However only assigned callers can call it does not need wifi it works off data and the size is 5"x7" so its big enough to see and touch.
As far as his money you would need to talk to an elder attorney.