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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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I am a caregiver and cannot take the flu shot. Having said that I would never go into a home when I am sick. I dont want to compromise medically fragile seniors. I stay home and get better first. If a caregiver insists on working while sick, show them the door and arrange for another caregiver.
Aabsolutely not. This is a service you are paying for. Job parameters, such as not coming to work when sick, are completely normal in the workforce. If she insists, it may be time to find another caretaker
Of course not. Elderly are much more vulnerable to illness and flu can turn into something quite serious. most people will need to stay home in bed with flu anyway.
Ummm. What? A caregiver wants to work while sick with a contagious virus? Caregivers aren't supposed to make your loved one sick. If they are sick, they should not come to work. If they show up sick, immediately send them home and call the service for a temporary replacement.
Your caregiver may be allergic to something in flu shot which precludes them from getting one.
My mother has end stage COPD. A cold could significantly hurt her. Sorry. It's too risky.
Your caregiver should understand the impact of exposing her illness to elderly or their family members. If she comes to work send her home - it is irresponsible on her part. Even a simple cold is not simple for the elderly. If lost wages is her issue, maybe she can make up the time in the future.
Absolutely not. Anyone who is sick with anything contagious especially the flu or stomach virus should stay home from any job especially when the elderly are involved. It is very selfish for any contagious person to have contact with others.
This shouldn't even be a question...it is simple common sense. The infants and the elderly are very vulnerable to the flu and can easily become very ill and it can even become deadly to them. She should never come over to an elderly home with the flu. This is a no brainer. If she refuses to get the flu shot, I would simply let her know that this risk is not one you are willing to take with your mother and let her go from your employment. I worked in a hospital for seven years...in PAYROLL and was still required to have a flu shot or wear a mask. There was no options outside of that...one or the other. If we came to work sick, we were reprimanded and sent home. She knows better and should not put your mother in that danger, there is no excuse. Her behavior is both disrespectful and irresponsible as an elderly care giver...not to mention...a danger to your mother. I would give this one her last paycheck and find another...put these expectations up front.
Administrators who force people to come to work when they are sick should be fired themselves. They are the main cause for the vast spread of contagious diseases.
I am an anti vaxer and we have the freedom (so far) to choose for ourselves. I also follow the "universal precautions" of hand washing, etc. I have not had the flu fir years and rarely get a cold. That being said it is irresponsible to show up for work sick! No matter what your job is. You are absolutly correct in telling (no need to ask) the caregiver to stay away if she/he is sick. You should also report to her/his supervisor so her super can go over health precautions.
What about the companies that make you come to work regardless if you are sick with the flu, burning up with a fever etc??? If you call out, they write you up! And im talking about one of the beverage “giants” worldwide company. makes no sense to me because all that person does is infect everyone else they are around or come in contact with. I know because it happened to me. I ended up in the hospital for 10 days with pneumonia and it was 2 months before i regained enough strength to be released to get back to work.
Unless a sample has been taken for analysis, you can't know if anyone has "the flu" or not. It may be one of hundreds of other respiratory viruses. Influenza is indicated if temperature is over 100, alternating with chills. Cough. sore throat,runny or stuffy nose, muscle or body aches. headaches. fatigue (tiredness) some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, Usually people with influenza don't feel like working! And the virus is more easily spread before symptoms develop. That said, caregivers should all be inoculated against influenza and pneumonia. Whether the care receiver needs to be inoculated is up to them or their families. I am a retired virologist.
No one should be forced to get a shot if they do not want it. But, it is not unfair to tell someone to stay at home if they are sick. Especially if you are a caregiver you should not report to work sick and other occupations feel the same way.
You can't make her get the flu shot, but you can "make" her wear a mask if she has a cough or low grade temperature. If she has a high temp or severely ill, she should be asked to go home and another caregiver should cover her shift.
It brings up a good question for all caregivers... What is the plan of care for your LO when the usual caregiver is sick?
First of all, if you are ill with anything, you don't need to come to work and spread whatever it is you have.
As regarding the Flu Shot, why should it be mandatory? Flu shots don't protect against all flu strains.
I know of two people, one a very good childhood friend of mine, who got Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) from a flu shot.
Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rapid-onset muscle weakness caused by the immune system damaging the peripheral nervous system. The initial symptoms are typically changes in sensation or pain along with muscle weakness, beginning in the feet and hands. This often spreads to the arms and upper body, with both sides being involved. The symptoms develop over hours to a few weeks. During the acute phase, the disorder can be life-threatening, with about 15% developing weakness of the breathing muscles requiring mechanical ventilation. Some are affected by changes in the function of the autonomic nervous system, which can lead to dangerous abnormalities in heart rate and blood pressure.
My friend Arnie was in ICU for two weeks, he never, that is right NEVER, regained full use of his legs. The other person, a nurse, is confined to walking with a walker for the rest of her life. She lost her job, and will be on disability the rest of her life because of it.
I work part time, not in the health industry, I don't go to work if I am sick. I DO NOT AND NEVER WILL, get a flu shot. Seeing what Arnie went through is enough for me.
The CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season.
647,000 people were hospitalized.
61,200 died [68 were children].
I remember one flu season where at the hospital when I do volunteer work, they ran out of hospital rooms, so beds where set up in the hallways, and when they ran out of beds, hospital recliners were also set up in the hallways.
No, it is not unfair that you ask a caregiver to remain home if they are all. In working with the frail elderly as well as their families it is common sense as well as consideration for others. Did you hire the caregiver privately or through an agency? If they were hired through an agency, the agency should have a policy regarding employees receiving the flu vaccine. Some employers will allow employees to decline the vaccine for religious reasons. It's rare though.
It’s just crazy to go near the elderly or anyone with the flu. The elderly are so vulnerable.
Send a caregiver away immediately and get a replacement.
I just saw on the news today for everyone to get the flu shot because we are experiencing higher than average numbers of people suffering with the flu.
There are places here that are giving out shots for free, even to those without insurance so there is absolutely no reason not to get a shot.
A word of warning about the ER or drop in clinics too! Those places are loaded with germs during flu season. Avoid like the plague! Only go if absolutely necessary.
I had a bedridden mother at home for 2 years before she had to be taken to a nursing facility for 24/7 care and we hired caregivers. If you tell them in a good way to be sure and let you know if they are sick and don’t come if they suspect they have a virus, cold, flu, they will definitely understand. My Dad had COPD too so we had to be careful about that and they seemed to understand. We were never bossy mean to caregivers but sweet/firm. You know what I mean. God bless you all.
There are more caregivers in the sea-- get another. Does she work for a a certain care-giving office-- we used a reputable one that screened for folks who were not healthy. Never feel guilty sticking up for your Mom. These folks basically work for us even if they are from an office. If they do not understand that they are in the wrong line of work.
This ILL caregiver CANNOT and SHOULD not show up for work! Good grief! Whatever her reasons for not getting the flu shot (think allergic to it), someone else must step in!
I'm an RN who gets the flu shot every year. During 2019, I got the flu TWICE. I get the flu every year in spite of the fact that I am religious about getting the flu shot. So, the shot is no guarantee that a caregiver won't come down with the flu.
However, the caregiver of an elderly person should not attend to that person if they have the flu. If there is nobody else available to come, then the caregiver should at least wear a surgical mask and surgical gloves when providing care. Flu is primary spread by droplets in the air from others coughing and sneezing in your direction.
Do you think there is a better place to get the shot as far as quality goes?
I heard an medical interview once saying that it is better to get the shot from your doctor’s office rather than a drugstore.
I get mine from my doctor doctor because I am already in the office and it’s convenient.
Some people don’t think twice about going to work sick. They are desperate for money perhaps, they don’t think they are contagious, Whatever...
Parents did the same thing. They always tried to send a kid to school sick. Was crazy. They would give them meds. Mid afternoon meds wore off. The kid felt crappy. School nurse took their temp. Sure enough they were sick. They would be sent home. The whole class was already contaminated.
Of course, kids can be well and get sick at the drop of a hat but as a teacher we could spot patterns of certain parents. I always felt so badly for the sick kids that were pushed into going to school sick and for the fellow students who would get sick. Teachers got sick too!
I apologize that I didn’t read through all answers but just had to give my answer. First of all ..no caregiver should work while sick..with anything ..not flu and not a common cold! Believe me ..I argued with my boss about this. I worked labor and delivery mostly but also helped in nursery and high risk obstetrics. I said ..if I am sick ..I will be home not spreading it around my moms and newborns! Your mom could get sick from a cold and develop complications also...so yeah make caregiver stay home, if it is from an agency contact them about your concerns. Second...you all do know I hope that having the flu shot is not a guarantee ..you can still get the flu. The makers take a guess at which flu to vaccinate against . An educated guess but still a guess. So, I don’t agree with making people get the vaccine if they don’t want to do so. I actually got the flu at work , from someone the ER sent up to OB completely against protocol. She didn’t have an Ob problem although she was pregnant. She had the flu! And despite that she had an active cough during flu season she was not given a mask, nor were we warned of her symptoms. So I walked into the room totally unaware. And even though I had the shot ..I did in fact get the flu . And was out of work for weeks. ( incidentally used up lots of sick time which isn’t quite fair either ) Lastly , if your mom and others were heavily exposed ..they might be able to get tamiflu ..if not then at least can do so at first sign of symptoms since you know exposure occurred,
There are a lot of people who won't get flu shots for one reason or another, however even getting the shot is not 100% that you won't get the flu - they say more than likely it would be a lighter case. Just tell her that if she has any symptoms to stay home. If she has school age children, pay attention to comments about the kids being ill and send her on home if she mentions it. Also buy some masks and have them on hand. They are not comfortable to wear, however if you think she's been exposed - tell her you want it worn to protect your parent.
Thanks my2cents. I asked her to stay at home until she had recovered. She ended up staying home for 5 days including the weekend. She wore a mask after returning.
It is perfectly fine to ask the caregiver not to come help until they are better!! No shame in that. My sister and I do. If you have a cough I ask are you sick. Wear a mask. I keep some at home. I think that is a lot of nerve to come around elderly or anyone with a cold or flu or brohncitus or any other contagious illness. In the health field you should already now. STAY HOME. GET WELL. THEN COME BACK.
If you are asking this question your mother is a frail, elderly person. When she gets the flu it is life threatening. Any caregiver knows this, and also knows that by law if a person is providing health care (including supportive health care such as a CNA or CGA) they must get flu shots in order to work with patients. Does this mean your caregiver isn't actually trained, and is just a companion and household assistant? That means the caregiver is non-esssential and should absolutely stay home if sick. A bad cold in a frail elderly person can develop into pneumonia. Talk about it in advance, so that you are notified if the caregiver is under the weather and can make any needed arrangements for coverage.
Thanks DrBenshir. I was putting the question out there to get some feedback. My mom is 91 years old and has dementia. The caregiver actually stayed away for 5 days then wore a mask upon her return. I have already let the caregiver know that going forward, if she gets a cold or cough I will request that she stays away until she is completely recovered.
I see that you have made a resolution to the issue, but is it unfair to ask her not to come take care of your mother when she is ill? NO. It IS unfair for her to expose your vulnerable mother to illness.
Unless there is some law that requires her to get the shot, you can't make her do it. As others have noted, sometimes the shot doesn't cover one or more of the strains that are going around and so some people still do get sick. It is good that your mother has gotten the shot. If exposed, she could still get ill, but what I have read is that it can lessen the effects. I can't speak from experience on that.
I don't do flu shots myself, but ensure my mother gets them, along with the pneumonia shot too (also over 90 with dementia, in a facility.) Despite raising two children, exposed to people on the job (some in retail, so you get exposed to a LOT of different people, not just co-workers), etc, I have never had the flu, nor even a really bad cold! The most time I have been down with anything has been a day or less - however I never worked in health care, so it is less of a concern. I have not even had a cold in decades.
But, given your legitimate concerns about your mother, you are well advised to let anyone caring for her know they should not be there if they have any kind of communicable disease, viral, bacterial, etc. Since she is a private care-giver, then it likely means she loses pay for the time she is out, but that isn't your problem!
Glad to hear that you (both) resolved the issue together!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
MY mom can't have the flu shot due to allergies. It makes me doubly vigilant and have called care agency when I find unvacctstaff.
Your caregiver may be allergic to something in flu shot which precludes them from getting one.
My mother has end stage COPD. A cold could significantly hurt her. Sorry. It's too risky.
It brings up a good question for all caregivers... What is the plan of care for your LO when the usual caregiver is sick?
As regarding the Flu Shot, why should it be mandatory? Flu shots don't protect against all flu strains.
I know of two people, one a very good childhood friend of mine, who got Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) from a flu shot.
Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rapid-onset muscle weakness caused by the immune system damaging the peripheral nervous system. The initial symptoms are typically changes in sensation or pain along with muscle weakness, beginning in the feet and hands. This often spreads to the arms and upper body, with both sides being involved. The symptoms develop over hours to a few weeks. During the acute phase, the disorder can be life-threatening, with about 15% developing weakness of the breathing muscles requiring mechanical ventilation. Some are affected by changes in the function of the autonomic nervous system, which can lead to dangerous abnormalities in heart rate and blood pressure.
My friend Arnie was in ICU for two weeks, he never, that is right NEVER, regained full use of his legs. The other person, a nurse, is confined to walking with a walker for the rest of her life. She lost her job, and will be on disability the rest of her life because of it.
I work part time, not in the health industry, I don't go to work if I am sick. I DO NOT AND NEVER WILL, get a flu shot. Seeing what Arnie went through is enough for me.
647,000 people were hospitalized.
61,200 died [68 were children].
I remember one flu season where at the hospital when I do volunteer work, they ran out of hospital rooms, so beds where set up in the hallways, and when they ran out of beds, hospital recliners were also set up in the hallways.
I'll take my chance with a flu shot.
And I fully understand this is a choice.
Send a caregiver away immediately and get a replacement.
I just saw on the news today for everyone to get the flu shot because we are experiencing higher than average numbers of people suffering with the flu.
There are places here that are giving out shots for free, even to those without insurance so there is absolutely no reason not to get a shot.
A word of warning about the ER or drop in clinics too! Those places are loaded with germs during flu season. Avoid like the plague! Only go if absolutely necessary.
However, the caregiver of an elderly person should not attend to that person if they have the flu. If there is nobody else available to come, then the caregiver should at least wear a surgical mask and surgical gloves when providing care. Flu is primary spread by droplets in the air from others coughing and sneezing in your direction.
I heard an medical interview once saying that it is better to get the shot from your doctor’s office rather than a drugstore.
I get mine from my doctor doctor because I am already in the office and it’s convenient.
Some people don’t think twice about going to work sick. They are desperate for money perhaps, they don’t think they are contagious, Whatever...
Parents did the same thing. They always tried to send a kid to school sick. Was crazy. They would give them meds. Mid afternoon meds wore off. The kid felt crappy. School nurse took their temp. Sure enough they were sick. They would be sent home. The whole class was already contaminated.
Of course, kids can be well and get sick at the drop of a hat but as a teacher we could spot patterns of certain parents. I always felt so badly for the sick kids that were pushed into going to school sick and for the fellow students who would get sick. Teachers got sick too!
Second...you all do know I hope that having the flu shot is not a guarantee ..you can still get the flu. The makers take a guess at which flu to vaccinate against . An educated guess but still a guess. So, I don’t agree with making people get the vaccine if they don’t want to do so. I actually got the flu at work , from someone the ER sent up to OB completely against protocol. She didn’t have an Ob problem although she was pregnant. She had the flu! And despite that she had an active cough during flu season she was not given a mask, nor were we warned of her symptoms. So I walked into the room totally unaware. And even though I had the shot ..I did in fact get the flu . And was out of work for weeks. ( incidentally used up lots of sick time which isn’t quite fair either )
Lastly , if your mom and others were heavily exposed ..they might be able to get tamiflu ..if not then at least can do so at first
sign of symptoms since you know exposure occurred,
Just tell her that if she has any symptoms to stay home. If she has school age children, pay attention to comments about the kids being ill and send her on home if she mentions it.
Also buy some masks and have them on hand. They are not comfortable to wear, however if you think she's been exposed - tell her you want it worn to protect your parent.
I think that is a lot of nerve to come around elderly or anyone with a cold or flu or brohncitus or any other contagious illness. In the health field you should already now. STAY HOME. GET WELL. THEN COME BACK.
The caregiver actually stayed away for 5 days then wore a mask upon her return. I have already let the caregiver know that going forward, if she gets a cold or cough I will request that she stays away until she is completely recovered.
Unless there is some law that requires her to get the shot, you can't make her do it. As others have noted, sometimes the shot doesn't cover one or more of the strains that are going around and so some people still do get sick. It is good that your mother has gotten the shot. If exposed, she could still get ill, but what I have read is that it can lessen the effects. I can't speak from experience on that.
I don't do flu shots myself, but ensure my mother gets them, along with the pneumonia shot too (also over 90 with dementia, in a facility.) Despite raising two children, exposed to people on the job (some in retail, so you get exposed to a LOT of different people, not just co-workers), etc, I have never had the flu, nor even a really bad cold! The most time I have been down with anything has been a day or less - however I never worked in health care, so it is less of a concern. I have not even had a cold in decades.
But, given your legitimate concerns about your mother, you are well advised to let anyone caring for her know they should not be there if they have any kind of communicable disease, viral, bacterial, etc. Since she is a private care-giver, then it likely means she loses pay for the time she is out, but that isn't your problem!
Glad to hear that you (both) resolved the issue together!