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Mom has dementia and lives with us and dad does too. Mom and dad have lived with us for about 2 yrs they do help pay the bills. They have Doubled since they moved in. I'm not rich or they would pay nothing. The question is if dad does before mom and we have to put mom in a care unit are they going to come after us for the money that was to help with bills. My dad is fine nothing wrong with him he is in his 80s But mom is not late stages dementia I have to help her with every thing and so does dad I am going to marry my other half in iowa and it still is not legal in Nebraska for gay marriages.

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Ask an elder attorney. Basically no but you should have some kind of written agreement that they pay you rent. You could then use the rent money to pay bills. If your parents just give you money this could be a problem when Medicaid does a five year look back.
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From my own recent experience the 5yr look back is from the date the original app hits the office hands so say today is the day app is stamped from 5 yrs prior up til today they will check things out. A house sold for 20$ worth 200,000 to you would be investigated due to being transfered (sold) to you at a price below market value. 3000 grand cash your dad withdrew from the bank lobby and then gave to you in the parking lot NOPE I believe not due to no paper trail of dad giving you the 3000 as far as they know without him having property or accts as proof he invested that in they can't tell if he spent it n beer and b***** or at olive garden or tp for the month no trail to say he paid it gabe it or loaned it to you. But once app hits office he will get or you get any of his money incoming or out if money he may have but 60$ a month
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Sadly, when it comes to nursing home care, so much depends on where we live. I agree that being a regular visitor tells the staff that this person has an advocate, but most of us would want to visit anyway. If nursing homes in a particular area are this bad then people truly need to hammer their state governments about it (starting with the county and moving up) There is no excuse for bad treatment.

It's true that homes are understaffed. This, too, goes to funding. It's a matter of where the people want the money to be spent. Meanwhile, people who are now looking at placing a loved one in a nursing home need to worry safety. When this is the case a nanny cam may be wise.
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they turn you over to the state
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I am wondering what happens if someone is put into a nursing home and then the money runs out. I don't think they can kick you out because where would they put you? Outside, under the trees or in the barn in the back? Can anyone answer this. What happens to people that this happens to?
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terry, have you heard anything from either your sister or Medicaid yet?
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well, terry, you and your sister might be responsible for that money; they should be looking through his bank account for that last five years and questioning the funds out of it; also what is the value of that Kia? but also, if he and his wife are still married even if they haven't living together, she might be considered a "community spouse" but sounds like you have quite a tangle; did he have a house in AZ?
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Deb it did.he is also still married to my step mom even though they haven't lived together for 10 years but they are not legally separated or anything. That one is going to be fun too.
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terry, sounds like you have quite a situation but think it can help juan as well; did the money your dad gave you and your sister come out of something that's recorded, like his bank account?
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oh gosh you guys more new problems to worry about. I think the interest rate is really high and my brother in law didn't get the original loan back he got a new loan so I think that is why he is upside down in the Kia. I have been busy untangling one thing after another. My dad likes to dis throw things away that come in the mail that he's not interested in so I have been researching his Medicare and his supplement because somehow he is in the donut hole already this year and he has been for a few months. I hope they don't also come after me or my sister. He has giving us a couple thousand dollars here or there for a car repair or something. I'm sorry I feel like I've made this through at all about me and I apologize to the person who started it but I hope the discussion is helping everyone. I don't think I could do this without you guys.
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not sure why your dad would be upside down with the Kia if brother got his original loan terms back unless it was upside down to begin with but not exactly how that would work or if have anything to do with anything or at least Medicaid; think would be strictly based on the value of the Kia - do you know what that is?
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The number of cars an applicant has when he applies for and receives Medicaid is an issue. If he bought, borrowed, paid in cash, and then traded for newer models this was something he enjoyed for his own use, rather than "giving it away". If you learn how this affects elibgibility in the end, please let us know. Car deals a person made for, and paid for, himself within the preceding 5 years is just a new twist.
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Oh, Terry, I'm so sorry - but....as far as his care and the 5 yr. lookback, I think they're just looking for transfers, which at least doesn't sound like he's given ya'll the money and ya'll bought trucks, so I don't think they came after you and/or him even if he did make all this foolish mistakes - maybe that's even what he was thinking somewhere in his head - that if he just went ahead and spent his money on what he wanted now he wouldn't have to spend it later on his care and have done without what he wanted then and they - Medicaid - would take care of him then and I think he may be right - if he doesn't have the money now or then - think Medicaid's looking for actual money that was just given away that they think they can get back, even if it spent, but by somebody else, not the person themselves - but you might need to try to contact that lawyer yourself just to be sure but I think you're okay
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reading all these comments scares me. I am probably screwed because we just moved dad from Arizona to Oregon. we do have an elder care attorney so that's good but my sister is supposed to be handling that and so far I've heard nothing else except for the initial phone call she made to them.
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also, if medicaid does the 5 year look back I have no idea what they are going to do when they see 5 different vehicles that have been paid for in cash and the loans that he had on those and then paid off right away and also for the one year that he had rental income from his home with a reverse mortgage. We are probably screwed and he is going to have to live with me because my sister doesn't want him and I will die from the stress of caring for him.
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thanks for the advice everyone. It gets even crazier. Last year when he was still driving he went to the dealership and traded the Kia for a truck again and it was such a bad deal that my brother in law took the truck back to the dealership and it took him about 3 days but he got them to give the Kia back and change everything back to the original loan but that is why he is so upside down in the Kia now even though it was still better than the truck. We probably should have stopped him 5 years ago but hard to do when he is still of sound mind. He is regretting it now and I told him well if you had listened to me and just bought some used 1999 Ford truck you could have fixed it up for a lot less than all these vehicles but he said he has got to have the newest and the best with all the gadgets and I told him no one cares if you have that Dad and he said it doesn't matter because that's what he wants. And I am so on edge and I snap at everything that I said oh of course I forgot, it's all about your comfort and your need and to h*ll with everyone else. and yet here I am still paying the price of caring for him
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BEWARE of auto leases signed by the elderly. When the lessee dies, the estate is hounded for the balance of the lease. Mom recently died at age 85. My brother turned the car and keys back to the dealership right away. We received no paperwork acknowledging the turned in car. Eventually I got a forwarded bill for approximately $30,000.00 to pay off the lease. I had many conversations with the auto dealership, bank, BBB, Federal Trade Commission, and others. Lease payments are generally lower than loan payments, so the lease does not bring in revenue as quickly. If they take back a leased car, it likely has a higher outstanding balance than had it been a loan contract. So they stand to loose more money in a resale. The estate attorney asked me to send the contract which I did. She said to keep pursuing this and if I couldn't get anywhere she would try. She told me that once I got a final answer to let her know the outcome and she would take it from there. I got it down to $10,000.00 and sent the information to her. She picked up the cause and got them to forgive the rest of the debt. The issue of hounding the dead really does not set well with anyone I encountered in this process but everyone has a job to do. I do think the elderly are at risk when signing any car contract. There should always be someone other than the salesman or lessor involved to review the contract before signing. Also, if encountering this problem, there is an online car swap that some military people told me they have used with success: swapalease.
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Terry, what own said's exactly what happened with my dad - though not sure is what happene with yours since he was already in the habit of buying vehicles so often anyway but dad wasn't - but he went to 2 different car lots and the first one the manager there knew my dad and the situation - even though it was in a different town and he didn't know he worked there - so he wouldn't even talk to him about selling him the car but the next one he went to was one of those kind with the predatory loan system - they had a cheaper car - not really sure it was a Kia at the other place but if so this one was cheaper - but then they tacked on an extended warranty but in some ways worked out better though as I was able to get that cancelled and therefore off the loan so didn't have to try to sell the car for the full amount of the original loan. And then that helped the finance people to be willing to work with us on a settlement for the rest for a lesser amount so we ended up not having to deal with the dealership but we were already prepared to get the BBB involved especially when they wouldn't even talk to us, although we did understand the timing was bad - the mgr/owner? had gotten sick and think maybe even was dying or had...had that happen in another situation or 2 as well but, yes, they let him sign - he didn't even know about the extended warranty - what's sad, there was a time he would never have signed anything without knowing what he was signing
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If you get them qualified for a medicaid bed in a nursing home check out the nursing homes themselves with the Better Business bureau or the State licensing for Financial and Professional regulation. Check out the state nursing home investigation website to see if the nursing home has had any complaints against them. Make sure that you get a tour of the place you are sending your parents. Ask about co-pays thus how much do you have to pay after Medicare and Medicaid kicks in their respective shares for insurance. Some states make you pay three dollars after Medicaid pays their share and upwards from there depending upon the state. Ask what services are included if any ask about the food ask about other things such as OT/PT/ Activities. Ask who the doctor is that will come into see the residents. Check the doctor out for medical violations. Get to know the nursing staff and physical therapy staff. Don't get chummy but do some fact finding when thinking about admitting your family member to a nursing home. If you do not drive and it is a good nursing facility check out the walking routes from your house. Check out public transportation. Make sure you know the visiting hours and daily routine of the facility. You do not want to come in the middle of lunch or dinner or therapy and miss half of your visit with your loved one. Make sure to visit everyday to check to see if their clothes are missing from their room. My mom did not put up a sign on her closet that daughters would do laundry and the first week my mom was there her nice coat went missing, a pair of her sweats went missing in the laundry room in the nursing home. I was lucky enough to remember to take the checkbook and her identification home and her phone because she was in the same nursing home before and they took her state ID. and she had to get a new one back in 2002. Never leave any electronics around other than a fan or a cheap cell phone. The nursing home states in their policy if you have a really nice nursing home they will do this. They say they are not responsible for lost or stolen items while in the facility. If your family member requires a certain temperature to sleep let them know once admitted to the place of your choice. but remember medicare pays 80% Medicaid pays close to 20% and it varies state to state what you will be left over with co-pay. Check out nursing home BBB ratings , Check out the doctor, get to know staff on first name basis on each tour you take before deciding where to admit your family member. Make sure medicaid knows about all expenses incurred that you spend out of their banking account. You keep bank checks, ATM withdraws, receipts up to seven years and every so often medicaid will ask you to bring them with you. If you are a Rep Payee Social Security ask how much you spend to the dollar amount when filing out the form for food, utilities, medical, and personal expenses.
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There are always college kids looking for a car or you can sell it to someone willing to take over the payments. Did he buy it from a car lot that has a predatory loan system in the works. If he did buy the car from a loan shark you could get the Better Business Bureau involved in your area. Some of these car lots thrive on a seniors income thus the let the senior sign the loan regardless if they can drive the car or not.
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oh, Terry, what is it with these people ending up with cars having payments on? same thing happened with my dad, was just so thankful, wound up - long story - in court same time as good friends who just happened to be looking for one for their daughter and were willing/wanted to buy it - are you/they making the payments on it?
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getting into a skilled nursing facility is NOT automatic after a 3 day qualifying hosp. stay, and the 100 days is based on concurrent reviews by insurance for Medicare Advantage plans, or possible non-funding by Reg. Medicare if the benefit is being abused by the facility..Your loved one has to be able to participate in PT, OT &/or Speech Therapy.
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Trucks are gone and sold. Now has a kia with payments. Need to sell it.
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If they contributed x amount to the monthly utilities bill, and it was done consistently and monthly, money in/money out I would think would be evident in a review of the checking account from which the bill was consistently paid. I think customer/account owners can request print outs from utility providers that shows amounts paid, and the usage amounts among other things. If you can show Medicaid that you did in fact have a significant increase in your energy usage and expense after your parents moved in, that might help. The utilities have your records on file for years so it's worth asking. Medicaid really can't come after you directly as you did nothing illegal. Your parents did nothing illegal. However, Medicaid punishes your parents by refusing admission to the SNF unless your parents still have enough money to go on private pay for some period of time. You are collateral damage i.e. you are left in a no-win situation that forces you to take care of them. You're health, job, and sanity, and personal life are not a part of this equation. If you can get them qualified for a Medicaid bed at a nursing home, try to keep them in that home. If you have to change states that would be a nightmare for everyone involved.
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If you have copies of bills & receipts then you can prove the bills increased after they moved in-this should be a legitimate disbursement of their funds. I would still speak with an elder law attorney to be sure.
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does he still have his latest one, that you could sell? at least he was buying something you can see? that's the issue with hub's aunt and uncle been trying to help - he really dipped into their IRA to buy their grandson vehicles that are all gone with nothing to show
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Anyone know if oregon is a difficult state to qualify in? We are in the ten day waiting period to be called by Medicaid. I am afraid my father's bad financial decisions over the last few years, such as buying a new truck every 6 months is going to hurt us.
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Joann, I thought Ozark was trying to take up for the NH
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If the family is very involved with the care and visits OFTEN - as in daily - with skin checks - they know they are being watched and will take better care of the nursing home patient. Nursing home abuse and neglect is pretty common across America.
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Ozark, My daughter has worked in rehab/NH since she was 19 as an LPN. Is now an RN at 37. She would be upset at that comment. If there had been any abuse, my daughter would be the first to admit it. She will tell u about one CNA who buys scented body lotion so her patients smell good. She and the CNAs can have up to 40 patients and 8hrs to take care of them. Moms first time in rehab was six months ago. I found that I needed to find out how the aides and nurses work. Don't expect baths everyday. Have enough clothes because they are changed everyday. This i the most important thing: residents cannot be made to do anything. They don't want to do. The NH is considered their home.

Like anything u have good and bad but I do think people go into it with what they want and with guilt that they have a loved one in a home.

I do have to say though, if my daughter hadn't been around my Dad would have come out of rehab worse than he went in. My Uncle was almost given a med that had been why he was in the hospital and rehab. TG he and my aunt asked what meds he was being given. You do have to be aware of what is being done for ur loved one. Ask questions. Nurses r suppose to keep u up on any changes in meds. Usually a conference is held bringing u up to date on care.
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