Medicaid was declined. Now what?

Have you talked to an eldercare attorney who specializes in Medicaid?

Are one of you his durable POA? If so, I would think that person could sign the needed papers. Just a thought.

It sounds like they must still be married. Also, if she owns two homes, are you sure his name is not on the deeds as a joint owner? If not, then she's the sole owner.

Another thing to consider, if these homes happen to be located in a community state, were these homes obtained during the marriage? If so, I would check your state laws regarding community property, but I would just about bet if his name was never on the deeds, I'm really not sure if there's going to be much you can do. I mean, look at the situation, she owns those houses if they happen to be under her name alone. They're hers fair and square no matter how she got them as long as she got them on her own and they didn't become marital property. If you get something before you're married and you get it on your own, as long as you own it, no one can really take it from you as long as you keep the bills and the taxes up on it and marital money is not involved. Once both parties start investing in the same property, that's where there would have to be a split. I think if I owned property before I ever got married, I would definitely take the proper legal steps to protect it in case of a split, and this would start with a prenup. If I were drawing up a prenup, it would exclude any possibility of sharing any portion of my house with my spouse should we split the sheets. Once it's signed, it's a binding contract. I don't know how the estranged wife has things set up, but I would find out why she won't sell the houses. If they happen to be rental properties, then you have your answer right there. If I was renting out at least one property and the tenant was a very good tenant who never caused any trouble and always paid the rent in full on time each month, I would never consider evicting them. Good tenants are hard to come by and you want to keep them when they do come along. Renting to good tenants is actually an investment with a promising income as long as the tenant lives in that unit.

I understand one home is supposed to be exempt as long as the person on federal benefits is actually living in it. If he's living in one of these homes then it should be exempt. If she is estranged, it would be interesting to know who is paying the bills on this particular home. Does he pay her rent to live there? If so, then that would be proof right there that he actually lives there if he can show record of it. It would also prove that he doesn't own that particular house if he's paying rent to live there. As long as you can cough up all the rent receipts, that would be proof that he actually doesn't own that house, he rents.

As for his condition, someone here mentioned getting an eldercare lawyer involved. This may actually be necessary because they know all the laws most people don't. I seriously doubt they can just take her houses unless she's done something seriously wrong and the judge grants a lien on them. I wonder if maybe calling your local Medicaid office or even visiting your local human services would be beneficial right about now because this is a situation where you need answers. I would make an appointment with a case worker and if you're patient is not on the deeds, see if you could get copies of those deeds from the county recorder where these homes are located. The problem though may very well be that he's still married to her. It sounds like she has no interest in him whatsoever and she's probably started a new life with someone else, this is a possibility. What I would do is definitely go for guardianship so that you or whoever gets guardianship can actually sign any appropriate documents necessary to get him Medicaid. I wouldn't try to go for the houses if she alone owns them unless you want a serious fight on your hands. Just do the peaceful thing and help him get legally divorced from her if she no longer has an interest in him. This would be the most peaceful thing to do because going after her assets that she rightfully owns will only make matters worse. As bad as I hate to have to even mention divorce, I guess there are some situations where it's absolutely necessary. If you think about it, these days there are various problems people face through marriage where assets are involved. Of course there are a multitude of other problems, i'm sure many people have their own reasons why they won't marry, protecting money and assets in some cases is among those problems. If you don't marry then you don't have to worry as much about someone coming after what you have since there's no spouse involved. The Bible even says that in the end times people will forbid marriage, this is only one sign of ending times. I'm sure there are plenty of legit reasons to refuse marriage, in fact I'm sure there are just as many legit reasons as there are wrong reasons

Thank you for taking the time to answer. Dad owned the two houses free and clear prior to the marriage but did a quit claim adding wife several months after they married. They are both on the deeds and in our state the homes will automatically go to the surviving spouse. As far as why she will not agree to sale and split profit is because she is younger and healthier and knows she will outlive him. (Her words) She also told me she would fight a divorce and draw it out until dad dies. This woman and her family have scammed my father out of almost all his savings and went as far as forging his signature to a quit claim deed and credit cards applications. Her relative that did this was arrested but ran when released on bail.

Also, It was an Elder attorney that told us dad was not competent to sign divorce papers and as POA I cannot either. I do have an appt with another elder attorney that specializes in Medicaid but I was hoping someone might have some suggestions on paying for long time care if we appeal and turned down again for medicaid.
Thanks again!

Appeal.
Have attorney fight that the asset is not really his due to the community spouse not being impoverished rules.

Bumping up.

So sorry that I won't be of much help.
Your circumstances are such that you may need to call on your children out of state for some temporary hands on visits and advice, as well as an attorney.

Hope you find the advice you need.  Not all of the advice given is reasonable so take what you want, and leave the rest.

In the "desperate measures" column, have you thought of dropping dad off with the estranged wife? She's still his wife, right? Isn't he her responsibility? Her obdurateness is what's causing you grief.

It sounds like this is only one reason why I would never add someone else's name to my deed.

First and foremost, I would never let her have two homes he rightfully paid for, she'd be getting them free and clear and I think she knows it. If you can prove he owned he owned these homes free and clear before marriage, definitely cough up those documents with those particular date stamps.

Now, cough up any other documents and put them aside.

When you have all appropriate documents together including marriage certificates, your next step should be to call your state bar association and ask for a lawyer who specializes in cases like this. Just describe the problem to the person who picks up the phone and answers your call, they'll be able to recommend the right lawyer for your situation.

When you're able to contact your lawyer, explain that you have an elder involved and explain that this person who is now an elder own two homes free and clear before he ever married the woman who is now estranged from him but her name is still on his deeds. Whoever does the deed so, I would get a hold of let's say someone like the county recorder and see if they could be of help if this wife has not lived with him and still no longer lives in the home with him. Explain the situation and if you can provide proof to the County recorder that these homes were his free and clear before he ever married and he simply just added her name but the relationship is over, you may ask the county recorder where to turn to get her name removed from both homes and explain there's a potential elder abuse situation going on because she's looking to cash in on wrongful gain. It's worth a shot to call the County recorder in which the homes are located if they are in the same county, but if they're in separate counties call each county's recorder. It's worth a shot even if they tell you you'll need a lawyer.

I think what should happen now is he probably needs someone to take over his financial matters, probably a guardian if he's not competent. Guardianship gives all powers over a person, so definitely go for guardianship if you can and get this woman's name removed from the deeds so she won't wrongfully gain two free houses she didn't contribute to help pay for.

Given his original situation, I never would've added her name to my deeds, they would've been in my name alone. Believe it or not, I've heard of some people with assets keeping them in their name alone to save potential problems. In fact, I've heard of another situation on here where this one man in his 90s happened to have seven big bank accounts in only his name, and he had a small joint account with his wife. The seven bank accounts had his life savings and I'm sure he had certain reasons why not to add someone else's name to the other accounts. I don't know how someone found out he had these seven big bank accounts, but I say shame on whoever went snooping if this was the case, but shame on him if he blabbed about it and let it slip. Bank records are actually supposed to be strictly confidential by law so I don't know how his financial records were discovered unless someone went snooping where their noses didn't belong. I think we can all learn something from that particular case because these days not adding other names to our assets is vital in order to save potential problems such as what you all are facing when this elderly man is now in a jam he can't get out of on his own. To be quite honest, I'm actually quite surprised he even added her name to the deeds in the first place, bad idea and hindsight is a very good teacher because now you know why it's a bad idea. I'm also sure the man with seven big bank accounts had his reasons to keep all of that money to himself because it sounds like he was pretty smart there. Sometimes when you give other people access to your bank account that happens to have a lot of money, too many people can be tempted to go to far and bad things happen. The same goes with adding your spouses name to your other assets. Let this be a very valuable lesson learned to keep your ass that's only in your name alone and definitely write up a prenup before marriage. If the person refuses to sign it, don't marry them! If they won't sign a prenup, it's a big red flag they have other motives. If writing a prenup, I personally would write it in such a matter they didn't get anything in the event of a split, not one dime of my money either. If they don't like it, they won't marry me because a signed prenup agreement becomes a legal binding contract. In these days in age, it's absolutely necessary to even go to extremes to protect yourself and provide nothing when a partner splits as long as you already head certain things and a certain amount of money before you ever married. Now, marital money earned during the marriage is fair game but should be split 50-50, especially if it's in a joint account. I personally though believe in keeping your own money in your own account under your name only and setting boundaries on how much of it you'll spend if spending too much on whatever will cause hardship. As they say, just say no and mean it and stick to it. These days you must protect yourself because things are obviously getting worse and your worst enemies are very often discovered to be within your own household. Perhaps this is exactly why some people won't marry, and some who have, have gone on to protect their assets, good for them! I highly recommend learning as much as you can from people who never married as well as those who have but retain money and assets only in their names. Definitely find out why, it may surprise you to learn even they're smart enough to protect themselves, and I don't blame them because so would I protect myself. These days you just can't afford not to. 

Another thing to consider is see how the nursing home may be able to help, they may be able to let you in on some little known secret on how they obtain assets if this is a situation where they can actually help. I know there's been many people who strongly believe in protecting their assets from nursing homes but if this is a case where they can't help, I would definitely look into guardianship. If by chance the nursing home does know something on how to obtain at very least his half of the houses, then they would know how it's done. If anyone would know how it's done, they would since they're all greedy enough to snatch everything someone owns anyway. If he is in a situation where he needs money to pay for long-term care, he needs the money out of these homes and someone needs to get it for him. No one else should be required to pay for his care if he has assets able to pay for his own care. The ex-wife is being unreasonable and she obviously has an agenda for wrongfully gaining these homes after he dies. Therefore, she doesn't have his best interest at heart at a time he needs his home his back so they can be sold to cover his care. Why did he ever marry her in the first place is beyond me, monsters aren't revealed until they are given access to money and assets they didn't earned or contribute to earning. She didn't contribute to helping him by these homes, she's not entitled to them at a time when he really needs his assets back to cover his needs. Now you know why I would never add someone else's name to my assets or even my bank account. It's things like this that prevent you from regaining your assets that's when you most need it during a life event emergency, and this is an emergency and his case

 Have you perhaps spoken to the APS or reported the situation as elder abuse? She's obviously blocking him from getting the care he needs and it makes you wonder if she actually knows that refusing to give up her interest in the homes is threatening his health and well-being. 

Refusing to cooperate is blocking someone else's ability to get the care they need, and what she's doing is actually risking the possibility of hastening his death if he can't get the money to cover his needs. I mean, look at the situation described. He made the mistake of adding her name in the first place when he should've known better and now look what happened. You own assets that can be liquidated in the event of an emergency when your insurance either can't cover you or Medicaid is declined because of those assets. She's clearly standing in the way by preventing him from getting much-needed care. This is a form of elder abuse when someone won't cooperate and these are the only assets able to be sold and get him that care. She's no longer with him and has no interest in him but yet she remains on these deeds. Don't you see the big red flag there? She has bad motives and she sounds like she's bad news just from your description. I would be very interested to find out what state and county this is occurring in because there's a problem being investigated in my state right now. 

It sounds to me like here's what happened: 

A young woman obviously married a much older man who has tremendous wealth. She gets her name on the deed's and when opportunity arises, she strays into another pastor thinking it's greener on the other side of the fence. She starts a new life with a new person and will most likely her name added to that man's assets. She then moves on to yet another man only to have her name added to his assets as well. Perhaps this is a pattern? Does anything sound familiar? This is what I suspected they have happened, and how many more people has she done this to? You can only wonder but it would be a very good idea to find out who all she's been around and warn each one of those men  about what she did and what she's doing now to prevent someone else from getting proper care. Coming on here was a very big step on your part, I'm very proud of you for going public. 

Given your position, I would be exposing this person on social media. Now is the time I would be sharing the person's name, the situation and where they live and what they're doing to prevent someone else from getting proper care. I would reveal all the details and really put the heat on and even turn it up really high. This will send out a fair warning to anyone out there that she may have done the same thing to and maybe even caused their deaths. Yep, I would definitely resort to social media to send a warning to any other individuals out there she may have done the same thing too because maybe they might be in the same predicament. If so, they may be able to help you if you make that post public and send a warning. I would get a picture of these houses for starters and  I would be revealing the name of the person standing in the way of this elder getting proper care. Explain on social media exactly what you explain here, make an actual public post about it because you never know when it may go viral and get the attention of the right people. Facebook is a very good tool for exposing wrongdoers, people do it every day and I would highly recommend resorting to Facebook with all of the information and even a link to this thread, but send a link to the first page if it runs over into multiples so others can see firsthand when they land on this page what you're describing. For all you know, she's most likely done this to someone else and whoever she moved on to is also likely older than her if she's getting with older men and putting on a fake love front only to get access to their assets, only for something similar to this situation to come up later. 

I think she knew when to vanish, and she's probably going to do this to the next person. By the way, don't fall for a reverse mortgage in order to get money, it's a scam on the elderly. When studying about elder financial abuse, this particular thing came up so don't fall for it. 

By the way, someone mentioned the idea of dropping off the elder on the estranged wife. It sounds like this may actually be a very good idea if she started a new life with another man. This will raise red flags with him if you tell him what's really going on, especially with other people there like his kids or other family members. Raising awareness even on social media is a very good idea because you really don't know how many more people she's done this to. What I would do before going to her door is get her husband out of the car and everyone with you all go to the door together but make sure these people are home. A car in the drive  usually indicates someone's home if they have a car, so definitely make sure she's home before dropping him off. Another thing you can do is just not approach her, but have someone drop him off. Have someone else call her and let her deal with the consequences of cheating on him. Yep, make her take responsibility if she won't remove her name from the deeds. I think she knows what she's doing and someone needs to stop her

Dads - honey you are truly caught in a Catch22. Could be worse…. like dad left properties to you as per his will BUT also provided in the will that lil' Queenie had use of it via a "usufruct"; so after he dies you technically own properties and all their cost$ but she gets use of it till she dies or decides she's over them (as everybody in the blended family is all kumbaya) or you pay her off the "value" of the usufruct. It happens often in my state (I live in New Orleans) for second or third wife situations and usually the property is a weekend place on the MS, AL, FL coast (so the extra fun of dealing with other states laws & atty's). So when you think what a clusterF you have with lil Queenie, well…. it could be wor$e.

But I do have a suggestion for you - dad becomes a ward of the state.
If you are paying for anything for him, no matter how small you stop. If dad is paying any of the costs on the property, it does NOT happen anymore. Let all costs - taxes, insurance, utilities, whatever fall to Queenie. Whatever monthly income dad gets (like his SS or pension) needs to go to a bank account ONLY in his name with no $ ever on the properties or available to Queenie. To me your doing guardianship is kinda a waste cause you'd be a guardian with no real ability to do anything as she controls the jointly owned assets & you are too overwhelmed to approach the whatever's. But if dad is a ward of the state, then a judge (usually probate court judge) will appoint a guardian from a list of them that is vetted by the state. The court appointed guardian - who more than likely is an atty - has a lot of ability to do things you cannot. Like he can sue her on behalf of the state to recoup costs paid by the state for the guardianship; can place dad into a NH and have those properties used as collateral for the cost. He might try to have the Quit Claim invalidated. It will be ugly (so keep us updated as this should be interesting) and she will have to eventually capitulate. It takes a real pit-bully of a legal personality to do this and it's not you. You really need to make hubs & his&your health as the priority. You've gone way beyond to caregive 7 years.

Now how to get him to be placed as a ward is going to be sticky. I'd suggest that you contact your Area on Aging to see what atty's they know about and then also if there are any pro-bono legal clinics. Remember all this is on dad's $, you should NOT be paying for any of this & if dad has no $ then he will qualify for services for low cost or free. And then make an appt for dad with them and you go and take all the paperwork on the properties and work up in advance a "face sheet" on dad. If you don't have property paperwork then try to get the entire chain on the PPIN from the courthouse. Most CH have maybe last decade or so on-line for a low cost download. The face-sheet is basically a documentation of dad's life, all marriages and divorces and children with specific dates (even if dead or divorced), job, property & income listing. A a separate asset / debt listing for EOY 2016. You really really need to do this and provide to guardian so they can get onto Queenie faster.

Or you do a Plan B - which would be to have dad admitted to the hospital and then when he is ready to be discharged, you refuse to bring him back home. You have to hold firm in this & if you can't then get one of your kids to come in to back you up or get a "take no prisoner" type of friend to handle this. Your hubs illness should be an automatic out on this and will be likely viewed that way by the hospital social worker or discharge planner. They will likely contact APS and the court to have dad made an emergency ward of the state with court appointed guardian to get dad place into a facility. Now you want to be friendly with the guardian and work with them on all things dad - but dealing with lil'Queenie is all on the guardian. Best of luck in this and in hubs radiation.

Also If you are up for it, & after you've done the face sheet, I'd try to do an excell on whatever you & hubs have paid for dad over the 7 years. The guardian may be able to have it included as a debt against dad that he tacks onto everything else onto lil' Queenie.

very interesting i look forward to hearing how this all turns out Best of luck. take care of hubby he's the #1 priority.

I had to laugh at the suggestion of dropping dad off at her home. Of course I would never do that because I am sure she would abuse him. It would be fun to
see her face though. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Have you considered Hospice? (End of life care). Medicare is under Hospice.

Maybe he didn't serve in WW II or Korea, but there is also Veteran's Aid and Attendance benefits. Although I would think the attorney would have already thought of that. I'm sorry about your husband and hope his chemo is successful. I agree that hie is your priority. I hope the new attorney can help you.
Best of everything to you. What a sticky wicket!

I used a specialist in Medicaid. She was able to assist me in everything that needed to be done to get Medicaid. She even went to Social Security for me. I got her name from an elder care attorney. It was well worth it! Good luck.

I used a specialist in Medicaid. She was able to assist me in everything that needed to be done to get Medicaid. She even went to Social Security for me. I got her name from an elder care attorney. It was well worth it! Good luck.

Seriously? Some of you are suggesting to drop her father on the doorstep of this nasty sounding estranged wife? I wouldn't trust her to take proper care of him.

She should get help from her kids financially or physically. Hopefully they are not sorry individuals like this gentlemen's "X" is. Does your county have an "Office on Aging" or a Dept. of social services?

I really hope you are able to get some relief with this situation Dadscaregiver1.

I´m sorry to hear you story, I'm an only child too and I have a very very hard time trying to help my parents alone. My mother is 86 and has cancer, my father is 85 and has vascular dementia and heart disease. Actually they have a very difficult economical situation since my father lost ALL of his assets 12 years ago, doing some wrong business. Last year I had to support everyone, even my husband who was unemployed for 12 months and had depresion. I have two young daugthers that I´must support as a mother, but sometimes I just can´t do it all. I hope you find here the best solution for your situation.

The wife is still responsible for the husband and I would definitely contact APS and see if they are any help as well as an elder law attorney. I have done both with regard to my Mother and Father (wouldn't be of particular help to go into my situation). There is a very good elder law attorney in Dallas, TX named Michael Cohen who has lots of information on his site. He also might be able to recommend someone in your state. He also recommended someone to me that was able to get my Dad set up with the VA Aid & Attendance. I think you should all go to the wife's location (Dad's house) and tell her that you are all moving in with her. After all it is his house too. This may get her to move off dead center.

If he has any income at all they will take that for his care and if the homes are also in his name they will put a lien on them. Do not expect free care but when his funds run out he will still receive good care if in a good licensed facility. Nothing is free but do seek advice from an elder law attorney.

Sounds like you need immediate assistance: 1) see an attorney. 2) You can appeal medicaid- file immediately if you are still within the time limit. 3) consider taking out a loan against one of his houses 4) see an attorney!!! We all mean well, however, there are many ins and outs of community property law and unless we are attorneys we aren't qualified to give you legal advise! Also, each state law is different. 5) call your local agency or department in aging for referrals and assistance! You can do this...take a deep breath!

If your dad owns house jointly with estranged wife then she either buys him out or he can do a reverse mortage on them to have income - talk to a lawyer on how to do this - wifey will find out that she only owns 1/2 & he has other 1/2 so it is his right to that $$$ - lawyer can set up something -

I bet she thinks she will end up with 2 houses & he gets nothing but that is not fair so maybe a suit for money will move her on 1 - ideally she gets one free & clear in her name & he gets other but the world is not ideal

Dads...

The solution to your problem is somewhat dependent on the Medicaid eligibility rules in your state (what state do you live in?).

Every state, however, will have overarching Medicaid eligibility provisions which:

1. Only consider "countable" and "available" assets for eligibility purposes. The definition may vary but you will find it in your state's policy manual.

2. Have hardship exemptions with respect to excluding assets that would otherwise cause ineligibility when the life/health of the applicant is at issue.

I am sure you can imagine that you are not the only one to face this circumstance or one similar to it. I believe this is a relatively easy case to get approved with the proper argument and evidence.

Ralph Robbins makes some good points. Also, it may be possible to go to court with a "petition to partition" the jointly owned homes, separating them. Then, the one determined to be owned by your dad will be exempt under the home residence rule, and he should then qualify for Medicaid.

So sorry. I think ur best bet is a lawyer. He knows the Medicaid rules in ur home state. Maybe he can work around the house thing.  If Dad is still married, she has some responsibility.  Bank accounts are half his if she never removed his name as is half the homes.  If he gets on Medicaid, at time of death a lean will be put on the houses.  If she sells, these leans will need to be paid back.  Make the lawyer aware that you are not able to care for both Dad and husband.  

Depending how desperate you are, next time he is hospitalized, you can refuse to allow him back into your home. This will force social workers to work the problem

My aunt had the state put a Lien on her home. It was paid upon her death.

When my mom had to go to the nursing home the state did what they call dividing of assets.

Absolutely, see an attorney. Preferably elder law. Very important. It is sad but you really have a better chance of getting on Medicaid through an attorney also.