Mismanagement of Money - How much control do I have as POA?

I wouldn’t hesitate a bit about shutting down a credit card and access to money. Your dad entrusted you to make sound financial decisions when he no longer could, and that time is now. Become the representative payee on the SS, it’s not a hard process. Don’t discuss money with him again, he’s no longer rational so it’s a wasted effort. This is exactly what POA exists for

When the books come, write REFUSED on the box/envelope. Do not open! When they are received back his acct should be credited. Or call the company and ask how they would like the return handled. When my sister died, Mom found books still unopened. She wrote refused on them and was credited.

We recently purchased a new portable phone system and we have the ability to block all unknown numbers. We stored all the regular numbers that we receive from. If an “actual person” calls from an unknown number they are instructed to input a passcode that is given to them and the call will ring through. Most telemarketing companies use computers to dial and the computers don’t have the ability to input the code. The phone doesn’t even ring. It doesn’t stop any local solicitation like firemen, police, etc. We love it! Also cell phones have the same type of blocking abilities. I wish TV did. I’d pay more for cable if I could get rid of ads. I hope this helps.

I write from the patients perspective. I was diagnosed with Early-Onset AlZ four and a half years ago. My DW and I set up a Trust and I funded my half of all our property and gifted it to my DW four years ago. I still manage my SSDI payments and forward all but 300.00 per month to my DW's Trust.

As part of setting up the Trust, we did Advanced Medical Directives, Financial and Medical POA's. I have over the course of time given up driving on my own, and I know that I am slipping in my ability to manage our financial affairs. Basically now, I just have 300.00 in one bank account each month, and I give our youngest who is in Junior High 5.00 per week allowance as long as she has kept up with her household chores. When things aren't done, I fine her if she's not doing her part to help mom. Our two oldest are over 21 and still in college, so they are doing more of the yard work, climbing ladders that kind of thing, which I know I do not have the judgement to participate in.

My hope is that family members that read this will sit down with each other and learn about what to be keeping an eye out on like finances, credit cards, ATM Cards, and if they believe their LO is financially not responsible put the brakes on. Even more importantly, at the time a diagnosis of ALZ or other Dementia ask your doctor for advice on the issues of driving, finances, where we that patient may want to be placed for Memory Care. Meet with an Eldercare Attorney, or one that specializes in Trusts and decide what fits your family best. We've engaged both the Trust Attorney, and Elderlaw Specialist work together to help make our Medical & Financial decisions are legally sound to protect the spouse that is not ill and their assets are protected. Based on what I've read these last 4 plus years, many of us wait too late and find themselves in a jam. I am happy to say we can both sleep at night, knowing we've legally set ourselves on terre firma. My DW tells me point blank when she thinks I am doing something that isn't safe, or making sense and I follow up on her suggestions because I know, she's looking out now for our best interest and we trust each other. I hope my thoughts are of some help to you.

Specific to your question about POA, you need to have your father’s consent/direction, OR you need an assessment that states that he is not capable of managing his own affairs and has designated you as his representative,

IF YOU ARE VERY LUCKY, you have been designated as his ONLY POA, and he has no other relatives that will challenge you when you assume responsibility for him and for your mother. That will mean that when you take charge of any assets you will open a checking account with his name and yours as POA. You will have their Social Security and any other forms of income directed to that account, and you will use it solely for their expenses.

If there is another POA, or if there are relatives who will want a cut, speak to the lawyer who drafted the POA that you hold so that you are in a position to handle any financial questions/conflicts before they become problematic.

Keep up your good work. You’re definitely on the right track.

When my brother was diagnosed with probable Early Lewy's Dementia he ASKED me to take over his trust and other accounts. We arranged for him to have his own "spending account" and that was the checking account that was his for spending money, other things. I handled all the bills. It sounds to me as though this is what you should now be arranging for your parents. While my brother died before Lewy's could do its worst to him, and only SAVED more money, it was a relief and blessing for him to know his money was safe. Once so acutely alert he would never fall for something I got a call from him one days to say "Hon, relieve my mind here. I got a call from someone saying they are Social Security and if I don't cooperate with their questions my check is now stopped from being automatically deposited; I think you will tell me this is a scam, and my money is fine, but is it?" I reassured him he did right, but there was a day he would have been right ON that, and he no longer was.
Your parents money is in danger. While it is not a huge amount, and would not go far were they to need assisted living of any kind, it is money I am certain no one wants to go into the scam sinkhole. They are more clever every day. A woman called Handel on the Law last show saying she "fell for" the "Amazon Scam" and they got into her computer, which was attached to her accounts and phone, and withdrew 2,000. She was lucky that was all that flew out the window.

SeniorStruggles - If I were in your situation, I would immediately cancel the internet so the free spenders can't get online and squander their last dollars. If they cry about not being able to get on the internet, make up some excuses, blame it on COVID, wide spread infection, so company shuts down, union strike, whatever. If they get bored, they can watch TV, or find something else to do.

I think this situation is one which so many people experience, and it's so frustrating for caregivers even though it seems to energize it for those for whom we're caring.   

I don't have the education to analyze why people fall for these scams, but it's certainly not new.  Decades ago when Sen. Carl Levin and Sen. John Kerry were still active Senators, I watched a hearing at which Publishers' Clearing House and others had been subpoenaed to testify.  Their "testimony" was literally a dog and pony show, a more sophisticated version of carpetbaggers' approach.

Levin and Kerry lit into them, especially after a woman testified to the unbelievable amounts her mother had spent, and the bathtub full of junk which she had bought.    This kind of elder scamming isn't new.

Even though there were at one time congressional actions against the scammers, I doubt there's anything like that now.    So what can family do?

First, I think the big question is why do people fall for this?   In our situation, I realized it was to help others, animals and people.   So we went through the list of people with their hands out and selected ones that were reliable.  Then I researched salaries for the execs.   Anyone making over $100,000 annually was eliminated.    That turned out to be the key:  why would any organization have to solicit if it the funds to pay an exec big money as some of the orgs did?  That eliminated a lot of companies.

Then we selected ones which were good, like Leader Dogs for the Blind, WASPS, VFW, Salvation Army.   And we gave only to them.   When another solicitation was received, I checked it out, and (of course) all the companies paid execs over $100K, so they were eliminated immediately.

That worked for me; if your parents are buying to  HELP a company, you might try that.   As to the other excuses, like bit coins and Fl (swamp)land, the only thing I can suggest is that you create financial statements for them, showing how much they have now, how long before they run out, and present them with photos of nursing homes accompanied by monthly costs.   

You could also explain that running out of money would place them in the position of having to apply for Medicaid, which would even more severely limit their funding.

If TN Techie were still posting, she might able to tell you how to block the sites that advertise and solicit.  I don't know how; maybe others here do.   You could then tell them that the Russians hijacked the sites, or something like that, and that it takes a lot to restore them, which security experts are addressing.

With tv, can you privately eliminate the channels that has high pressure sales pitches?   Maybe the cable provider can cooperate on this.  

If you can, get new credit cards for you to use for them, cancel the old ones (if you have the authority to do that), but don't tell them.   When charges are declined, you could tell them that they're overspent and can't buy any more, and it's again time to assess their spending.

Facing these challenges head on and frankly doesn't seem to affect the need to spend.   So you may have to create work-arounds to figure out how to get them to spend healthily, only for good organizations, and perhaps even get involved in charitable activities (from home) especially as an alternative to watching tv all day long.

Are they both mobile?   Can they deliver Meals on Wheels?  Do any kind of charity work, especially from home?    What did they do when they were young?  If you can find alternatives for their all day free time, that might be a good step forward.

Why do they even have a computer? It’s clear that they aren’t able to navigate the internet safely.

Don’t they have a television? They will find something else to occupy their time without a computer.

You don’t need to give them everything that they want. Children don’t need to be spoiled. Adults don’t need to be spoiled.

Today it’s a scam, tomorrow it will be identity theft.

As for spending money, set up a separate account with limited funds for them to spend. The rest is allocated for essentials or saved.

If you don't have the authority to take over a person's bank account you sure as heck don't have the authority to take away his computer. That's why the OP hasn't already done that.

SenStruggles, are these transactions actually going through, do you know? I only ask because it's surprising that someone who's as fantastically credulous as your father appears to be can still manage the process of entering his payment and security details online. Are you sure he's not all talk?

If your POA is the durable springing type, then subject to due process (declaration of incompetence by suitably qualified person(s), that is) yes you would have the legal authority to take over your parents' financial affairs and remove their access to their money.

If not, or you can't get anyone to agree that they are now officially away with the fairies, and they really are sending a grand at a time to people who, let's face it, are not likely to be prompt with refunds... well. It won't take them to squander their remaining funds and then they'll be out of options anyway. How much trouble is it worth to you to stave off that result for a few months longer?