My Mom forced into nursing home by state not by family. Any advice?

Have you spoken to the social worker, or to the administration of the nursing home to ascertain the facts? With all due respect, I think you need to find out the other side of this story.

The social worker has never answered her phone. She simply does not pick up. The nursing home only knows that my mother is diabetic and elderly. I am waiting for 9am US time to contact them again. One thing I do know for certain is that my mother has all of her mental capacity and does not wish to be there. I was just home not too long ago.

Are you on mom's HIPAA form? If not, NH can't talk to you. Call the social worker at the nursing home to find out if you mother has been declared incompetent, has been appointed a guardian by the state and who signed her into the nursing home.

I will do that. Just waiting for US hours of operation. Part of your statement is the issue tho. I have 3 people that see her on a daily basis that can attest she is mentally fine. A social worker that has not spent any significant time with her has been able to legally force my mother out of her own home.

Or does one of your friends or godmother have HIPAA authorization ? If you mom has a lawyer, you might contact that person to try to sort this out.

In your view, your mom has mental capacity, but for whatever reason, was not able to manage her diabetes on her own and not able ( or willing) to ask your friends for help. For right now, she's safe at least. Are friends and godmother visiting her? Being on site, they might be able to find out if there is a guardian involved.

There are different definitions of "fine". To most casual observers, my mom is "fine" but if a clinically trained person asks her questions that assess her reasoning ability, you see a different picture. Hope this works out for the best.

It sounds like adult protective services in San Antonio got involved and after a few visits decided that your mother's health required an emergency guardian to handle her medical care and are probably managing her finances as well.

Something must have triggered them to have moved as quickly as they did to move her into a place where she would have 24/7 care. This may be only a temporary move to get her stabilized until other arrangements can be worked out.

How long have you been gone from the states? When did she last see her doctor and did the doctor say anything about her living by herself at home with only people visiting her as much as possible?

How recent did her blood sugar get out of control and the social worker have your mother placed in a facility? Is it difficult to reach you in your work with Socom? Did your friend tell the social worker that you are her son and are oversees with Socom in Afghanistan?

You can search for an elder law attorney form this site to find someone to contact. They need to be your contact person to find out the whole story, get back with you and create a plan as to what to do next until you return to the states.

There's really not a whole lot you can do while you're in Afghanistan. How much longer will you be there?

Adult protective services does have the authority to do that for elderly whom they perceive are at risk either because of self-neglect or the neglect of others not providing the level of care that the medical people perceive that they need at the time.

I don't know why the social worker did not contact you. Nor does it make sense that they told your friend not to intervene and threatened them with jail.

Is there a family member who lives in the area who has medical and durable POA for her that was overseeing her care while you are oversees? If so, it sounds like Adult Protective Services has overtaken those responsibilities.

If you are her POA, then there was no one there with the durable and medical authority to deal with that emergency and so in your being absent, they must of deemed in necessary to just step in and take over.

I don't know why all this went down like it did, but my gut reaction to this is there must be more information about this and to find that out will take hiring a lawyer.

Take care and keep in touch.

I agree with Babalou, that there must be much more to this whole situation and that your first line of approach is contacting the social worker before spending money on a lawyer.

Thanks for the replies. I will be back home in May and hopefully can take care of my mother myself. She is just a elderly person that needs assistance not taken away. I will be hiring a attorney this morning.

Worried, I'm with CM on this. Please talk to the sw at the nh home if you are able. If you have to retain a lawyer, please find a certified elder affairs practioner who understands the issues.

I'd also suggest going to see the military chaplain for support in this chaotic time.

Try to get into an information gathering mode before springing into action without the whole picture. Your mother is being cared for. You will return home in May.

There is still more information to gather as well as to process and you have the time to do that between now and when you get home. What is currently hazy will become clear and then you will see what all of her needs and your options for dealing with them are in a manner that will not throw either one of you under the bus so to speak.

She'll be ok and you'll be ok. It's just a very unnerving process to work through and develop a plan for.

Take care.

WorriedSon,

To simplify things for you, here is the link to the page on this site where you can search for an Elder Lawyer where your mom lives by zip code.or city and state.

https://www.agingcare.com/Elder-Law

Thanks everyone, very much appreciated.

If you are POA, you can go there and sign her out. As her son, you can probably do it without POA, but I think you'll need to come home for this. Good luck.

If the social worker works in the hospital, I'd call Adult Protective Services. They are there to help and can asses the situation. You can contact the local Area Agency on Aging for information and eligibility criteria for in home services. If you mom also had other help coming in, it would be good. Friends and other family can visit and assist also. I have seen this happen before, sometimes there are valid concerns. If your mother is in her right mind, she has a right to make her own decisions. Speak with the social worker at the nursing home, she can also assist with discharge planning and should know about the available services in the city where your mom lives. Ask for contact info for the local long term care ombudsman, the ombudsman is an advocate for those in long term care facilities, the ombudsman can give you information and can assist in advocating for your mom's rights. You can also contact legal aid. I hope it works out, good luck.

I am assuming you have spoken with your mother. Otherwise you would be assuming that she is, in fact, being held against her will.

It may be that she is relieved to be in safe environment, where her medicine will be controlled and good, diabetic friendly meals will be prepared for her. Maybe taking care of the house got to be too much for her. Maybe preparing healthy meals got to be too much. Obviously, for her insulin to be out of whack, and her diabetes to be out of control, something was amiss. Maybe the friends visiting "as much as possible" wasn't enough?

I know this is frustrating and frightening, especially with you being so far away and the time zone differences and all - but you can get more done if you are calm and collected and not a blustering hothead. I don't know you and don't know if that description fits you or not - but it's just a suggestion. I know that most of the men in my family would just charge in and try to "fix" any given situation, oftentimes without even knowing all the facts.

Personally, I would be happy to know that my mother is safe and being taken care of by trained professionals. In May, or whenever you return, you can always change the living arrangements.

If the social worker won't answer your calls, try getting in touch with her supervisor and just explain that you are trying to reach her but you are out of the country. Maybe that will help you at least get to the bottom of it all. I agree though, regardless of her health, as long as she is deemed competent, they have no right to take her out of her home without her consent. Lots of adults smoke, drink, do drugs, don't take proper medications, don't see a doctor, overendudge in food all to their own detriment and no one is dragging them out of their homes and into a health facility for their own good. Seems they only assume if an elderly person isn't taking care of their health then it must be dementia or something. Sorry but people have freedoms and if she is mentally fit then she has the right to decided her own fate. Just my opinion. Get a elder attorney if you can afford it.

I agree with "cmagnum" that something must have happened in your mother's health situation to have triggered this sudden move. The health of an elderly person can go downhill very suddenly - and you were not there to witness it. It's possible that she has developed diabetes-related dementia and Adult Protective Services felt that it was not safe for her to live alone. If she had no healthcare proxy, no durable power of attorney, etc. then there was nobody who could speak on her behalf - so the state did not have a lot of choice.

I highly recommend getting ALL OF THE FACTS before making a rash decision. Since you have been far away, things may have changed dramatically with your mother's health status and you would not even realize it.

This happened to my mother in the state of Massachusetts. You have to tread lightly because they are in charge. Once they know a lawyer is involved, they get a bit nicer.

1. Call an Elder Care Attorney - they've been through this. They know what to do. State to him you/her you can't get information from anyone.

2. Call her PCP (Primary Care Physician). After you talk with him/her, tell her the SW is not returning your calls and does s/he know what to do about this.

3. Call the Nursing Home (which may also be serving as a REHAB). Ask how your mother is doing. They may be trying to get her back on track with medications. Also, tell them the SW is not returning calls. Try to talk with the highest person on board.

For your own information: Go on Medicare.gov to find out the rating of the nursing home. It may help you understand where and how she is.

I'm thinking your mother's diabetic numbers were out of control which causes confusion which in turn causes non compliance with medications. It was probably a matter of covering her/his butt because of lawsuits that could result if your mom was found dead. We all believe our parents are 'okay' because they never tell us they're not. It's not anyone's fault. It's life.

Hopefully you're okay. When you are speaking with these people, do not show your anger or how upset you are. It will only make things worse and they won't call you back.

Dragonflower - oops...you must have posted as I was writing ....

Worried, you are not alone. Texas, in particular Tarrant County (Ft. Worth), has written the law to basically screw the elderly and anyone who might have an inkling of an incapacity. Unfortunately, your mother is in a situation that you might not be able to help without spending massive amounts of your own money. Now that she has been forced into a nursing home, the lawyers, any judges, and social workers will use HER money to fund both the nursing home and themselves. Please read more about unlawful/unnecessary guardianships. There are countless stories about the elderly falling into these situations.

According to Texas law, mental competency doesn't matter. The law is written to involve the incapacitated, which is entirely different. It could mean a physical and/or mental incapacity.

Please be sure that your elder law attorney does not fall on the "Wanted" list on stopguardianabuse - it would also behoove you to read the entire website because all of it is true and happens every day all over the nation. If he/she does fall on that list, fire him/her immediately. This is a serious situation that families struggle with all over Texas, and I don't mean to scare you, but the people who did this to your mother want nothing more than her money.

txcamper makes a really good point regarding contacting an area Long Term Care Ombudsman. They are really amazing advocates regarding people's rights in long term care settings. You can probably get the contact info for the LTC Ombuds in your mother's area by contacting the local Area Agency on Aging. The Ombuds might be able to help you figure out what happened, what your mother's rights are, and help steer you in a direction to get her out of there. Maybe if you were able to get a plan of care in place for her to be at home she could return home. Again, I agree with what everyone else is saying--it's important to gather information first rather than go on the attack. You might save a lot of worry, time and money this way, as there may be a fairly simple solution.

I imagine that you are worried, being so far away, having to deal with state agencies is at best - not good. I would not hire an attorney at this point but look to a good friend or family member that is willing to do the footwork for you - you will need to know this all anyway should you decide to hire an attorney later. Dealing with these people by phone is difficult, frustrating, time consuming and more often than not gets you nowhere. I would make sure that your advocate has the proper consent forms signed by both you and your mother giving them the authority to discuss her and her medical and social issues, have them make an appointment to visit in person with the social services director at the nursing facility where your mother is - that is going to give you the answers to your questions and give you what you need to know to proceed - make sure to give your advocate a list of questions that you want answered, why did they feel they needed to place her and what needs to be done to get her released, etc. I think from what you say that her placement had to do with her mismanagement of her medication for the diabetes and this is very common with seniors - many take the medication when and how they want and do the same with diet. It could be a simple fix, your mother needs to be evaluated to she if she is able to be trained to take her blood sugar readings, medication and dietary changes to maintain her diabetes by herself or that she needs some in home help with it, or indeed needs to be in the nursing facility. Have your advocate take lots of notes along with phone numbers and names. I would think that a primary care doctors recommendation was required for them to place her in nursing home, so that would be the next visit, and again an in person visit is going to get much more information than trying to deal with folks over the phone. Since you are so far away but want and need to know what is going on - I would have your advocate request email addresses for everyone possible - so you are able to continue any dialogue with them - email addresses are not something that doctors - nursing homes etc are readily willing to give out, but I have found that a good reason (you being out of the country) and a bit of persistence can indeed get the emails. The emails are great because then you have a record of what is being discussed.

In the meantime, your mother while she may not be happy, is safe and has no choice but to remain where she is for now, and by getting things started now you may be able to resolve the issue quickly once you return.

Should you need more help - be aware that this state agency is there to help,

Ombudsman

Contact Us

The Office of the Ombudsman is ready to assist the public with issues or complaints about health and human services programs, agencies or personnel.

If you have a problem or complaint, we encourage you to first discuss it with the person, program or office involved. Many times they can explain a specific policy or correct the problem immediately.

Clients who need assistance or information about local resources or program are encouraged to:

Call 2-1-1 for access to information about health and human services in your community including information on the location and phone number of your local agency offices.

If you have problems or complaints about a state agency health and human service or program that is not resolved to your satisfaction, there are four (4) ways to send a question or file a complaint:

Call:1-877-787-8999 (toll-free). People who have a hearing or speech disability can call any HHSC office by using the toll-free Relay Texas service at 7-1-1 or 1-800-735-2989.
Online: Online Submission Form (only works in Internet Explorer)
Mail: Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Office of the Ombudsman, MC H-700
P O Box 13247
Austin, TX 78711-3247
Fax: 1-888-780-8099 (Toll-Free)

As you can see, they also recommend starting with the agency to see if you can resolve it, I would call the 800 # to get an email address as well for them and cc them on any email discussions that you have with the nursing home, health and social services etc, they do seem to pay a bit more attention knowing that the office of the Ombudsman is involved.

Good luck, I would tread carefully at first, your Mother is under the states care and that decision was made by someone who was following the rules. You owe it to yourself and your Mother to find out all the facts prior to proceeding.

Terryjack suggested the long term ombudsman. Just wanted to give the proper credit. Those purple butterflies all look alike!

If you don't get a satisfactory solution with the ombudsmen, you should call your congressman and/or senators. This is one of the situations where they can actually be useful.

LOL! Thanks txcamper for giving Terryjack the credit! :) This is a good community with some really fantastic caregivers!

WorriedSon79, besides your mother having diabetes, what other health issues does she have?... your profile said general age decline but that could be anything from minor to very serious.

When was the last time you had spoken with your mother? When was the last time you had actually seen her, or have you been using computer to computer face communications. As others had mentioned, an elder can have a medical emergency very quickly.... if you haven't spoken to your mother recently maybe her memory had slipped and she had been telling the social worker she lives alone and no one comes to see her. It could be time that your mother needs 24/7 care.

Honestly, I am really surprised that you had mentioned where you work, especially since you are overseas. One has to be careful as it is too easy to connect the dots.

I was re-reading your original post and your follow up post. A couple of things jumped out at me.

Your statement: "I am my mother's only SON". Do you have sisters? Are they a part of your mother's caregiving? Could they be?

The part about arresting the friend. Was he belligerent? In my limited experience with social workers, I've never seen one threaten jail to someone who was trying to get along. You see, your friends, helpful as they may be, probably don't have any legal status. So, they are essentially useless in an emergency. And out of control diabetes is an emergency. If there is no one at home to give the level of care deemed proper for the situation, then your mother would be placed in a facility (not necessarily one that YOU would choose even given a choice), but a safe place for her to stay and get stable.

I know you are mad at yourself for not being there for her when she needed you. But with the job that you hold, what ever it is, being out of the country for months/years at a time means that you and your mother needs to make sure there are some legal guardians stateside that can help her make decisions. You can do temporary POA's I believe, that can be rescinded when you return. While you are talking to a lawyer, ask about that. Hopefully you will retain an attorney that specializes in senior law and not one that is essentially an ambulance chaser "out to get the bad guy".

Good luck and stay safe.

What bothers me is what the state considers "incompetence" - someone who is physically unable to sign their name may still be competent to give assent. An inability to speak does not mean someone is incompetent. They consider you incompetent if you don't know what day it is, but how many times do "normal" people need to check? Do we always know the date and what day of the week it is? How about asking what year it is - in January??? Being unable to spell "world" backwards signifies nothing. If they know how to spell it frontwards and know what it means, they are competent - but that's not how physicians giving those tests see it. It's not right.

This is very disturbing. I was a nurse for 29 years, working primarily with the elderly in nursing homes and at home. For anyone to be removed from their home by a social worker, adult protective services had to be involved. Sometimes a patient will be placed in a facility until they are satisfied that returning home is feasible and safe. For such drastic measures to be taken there must be more to this unfortunate situation. HIPPA laws are strict. If you are not specifically named as a contact who has permission to discuss your mothers healthcare, you can't even speak to her doctors. What you could do to get that access is call your mother and see if she can give verbal permission over the phone. You should have any information about your mom such as her date of birth, address, health conditions, and anything else that may help convince the social worker that you are a relative. Good luck to you. Sue