Mom and Dad live at home. Mom is 82, Dad is 87. She has always badgered him but it has become severe. She rages for hours at a time, then acts like it did not happen. No remorse. She will NOT see any doctors - they do not know anything. Her decision making is poor but she still drives. She recently announced she needs to move back to the area she lived until about age 50, 500 miles from where they are now. She says she won't go unless Dad does, or until he passes. She fantasizes about how her old friends want to be with her. We want to move her back there to an IL with memory care. Planning it now and want to send her off within 24 hours of telling her. Are going to approach it in a positive spin, that we are honoring her wishes and getting her there while she is still able. Dad wants to stay home and is perfectly able now.
Dad is very fearful of her and that she will go into a rage at him if we drop it on her.
Reading a lot on this site about her rights, but what about his to live the rest of his life without the abuse? Should we file a complaint with Adult Protective against her first? We just want to peacefully separate them and think we can convince her to go. We just don't think giving her a lot of time is wise - we would have to remove him from the home temporarily if we do.
What about a closer look at the father's needs. Some couples are negatively bonded and would suffer if apart from each other for too long. Maybe he needs to go to a temporary home apart from her, see if she gets better. I do agree, something needs to be done. The couple we know are still together after 4 years, since knowing about this. No one acted on the nuclear option when the wife wanted to return to her homeland. I was amazed this could go on, and they really did not need rescuing. Just something to consider. Has anyone asked the mother what she is upset about? Trying not to take sides here.
I agree that you dont want her and/or your dad 500 miles away. Their need for assistance will get worse, not better. Hope everything works out for you.
If my memory serves, my mother had to have a complete workup before going to IzL, including TB test. Something to plan for.
Please let us know the outcome!!!
But it's pretty common that she doesn't want to go "back home" as it is now, but what it was when she was younger. It's going to be very disappointing (and she may not believe it's the same place.). That might make her even worse, as she's lost the "roots".
Despite the rationale used, which sounds good....She's /not/ in her right mind; she is a frail elder.
It might seem like a good idea to ship her where she /thinks/ she wants to go; but it won't look like what she remembers. She'd be in a strange elder care facility, in a strange place that appears different from what she remembers, with few people she knows.
She's been in her current location for the years.
Would she settle for an alternate solution to the grave-site visit, and burial? What if she has photos of the graves? What about helping her Skype with the few at the old place whip can? What about promising to bury her with family at the old place?
Elders often go through episodes where old memories are so VERY vivid to them; compared with more recent ones, those old memories seem real and, they want to return to that reality, because they understand they were 'more of themselves' then and there.
--- Except, no one can go back in that way.
Thinking she can go back to some place/people she liked when she was younger, is delusional. It's a form of trying to escape current conditions. Demented persons, at some level, understand things are going haywire; they don't like it, but can't stop it. The mental/emotional 'solution', they think, is to try to return to a time/place when these mental problems weren't happening.
If you call APS first, it could move things along faster maybe, but maybe not in ways that are best for her and family.
They might do one of a few things, including removing Mom from her home to a facility [if there's a bed open]; might remove Dad to elsewhere; might accuse the wrong person of elder abuse instead of Mom [especially if she's great at "show-timing"].
Bottom line: Mom needs a Doc to check for physical ills, determine her mental state, and see how far has dementia progressed.
IF nothing else works to trick her to see Docs, or if the Docs are not listening to your descriptions of her behaviors, you might have to call the hospital to ask what the procedure is, to get her brought to hospital on a "51-50" [72-hour mental health evaluation/watch]
KEY WORDS: "Mom has become a danger to herself or my Dad". Be prepared to describe how she is a danger to herself and your Dad. If she is potentially a danger to anyone else, say so.
Moving her to a proper level of care facility /nearby/ is more appropriate.
But, must have Doc evaluation to do that, too.
If a UTI that's causing this behavior, could she have had a history or them all along, that never got treated? You say she has not been nice to Dad, for years...was she disagreeable to others? Just within family or to anyone else?
Does Mom even have a Doc she has seen, even years ago?
Or does she need to re-establish with a new one? [[If so, need to choose one that's good at Elder Care!]]
Several suggestions others listed, seem safer, saner, more realistic, despite her wanting to go 500 miles away, and despite there being seemingly good connections there.
====== Call your her local Area Agency on Aging--some of these offices have various names, but Agencies that help family caregivers and elders, get helps they need.
NOTE: Please give the worker a printed/written list of behaviors and cues--some of these people are not that observant, and, they really wait far too long into dementia, to start documenting that something's wrong--if you give them a concise list of her behaviors, it might help the worker do their job better.
They should be able to send a social worker or RN to come to the house, to do a longer-than normal observation---/more than 2 hours/, for some elders....
.......My Mom could maintain a "nice" personality for almost 2 hours, then took a breather-break to her room in order to collect herself, then returned in about 15 or 20 minutes, again able to fool people into thinking she's fine.
====== IF you have not done so already, start making "well-check" call requests to 911 for a well-check on Dad, because of Mom's behaviors.
OR, You and/or your Dad can call 911 to report Mom is raging, help is needed;
.....police MUST write a report for all 911 calls--this is a paper trail which could help getting a Doc to make a determination; often, they are unwilling to pronounce dementia on someone who can still drive a car and make it back home.
====== Should Mom still be driving a car?
======Having trouble figuring how to prevent her driving?
======Does she have others who can give her rides where she needs to run errands?
----Uncle finally told G'ma, her driver's license had to be renewed, and that she had to take a drivers test. ---THEN, he called their local Licensing department, gave them a heads-up on G'ma, that she was unfit to drive, been getting lost/confused, and that they needed to make absolutely sure she Flunked her driver's tests! They were great. Of course, she flunked! ----That way, instead of barking at Uncle for preventing her driving, she barked at the licensing bureau. Worked much nicer that way.
Of course, she was compliant with not driving, because an authority figure had taken that away from her.
---- SOME elders insist on keeping driving until they catastrophically stop...those are harder to stop, without taking the car, the keys, and blocking any access to a vehicle they might try to drive. Similar with weapons/guns some have.
====== Tell Mom: "It's required for you to get a Doctor check-up every year; you haven't had one in a very long time; you have a Doc appointment scheduled for [date/time]".
Also tell her:
"Insurance refuses to cover medical treatment unless you have a Primary Care Doctor; it's just a check-up, so the Doc[s] can meet you, so you are familiar with them IF you need to see them, later".
----IMPORTANT: Write up a concise list of one-liner's, of Mom's behaviors and the impact on Dad. Docs /depend/ on other witnesses to the patient's behaviors, unless the patient is so 'over-the-top-they-can't-miss-it'. List her behaviors, your concerns, Dad's concerns. Give the list to the Doc's nurse/staff, "to enter it in Mom'd file so the Doc is aware; we don't want to forget to inform him of things".
======Do you think she might not go to the Doc's office, if she has advanced notice? You will need to use subterfuge!
-----Tell her you are taking her [[somewhere she likes]]; give enough time ahead for stalling, yet still be on time.
Tell her you need to make one or two stops along the way. I have gone so far as to tell my Mom that I needed to stop at the clinic or Doc's office, to check on something for myself, or pick up something for someone else I was helping...it seemed to work, at least once.
------IF she gets there, then refuses to get out of car?
You call Doc's office on your cell phone; tell them "the patient refuses to get out of the car; she's been having rage episodes that might be due to a UTI; she must get to this appointment; could they please send someone to help you bring her in for the Doc to see her?" --- Often, the elder will hear that, and suddenly choose to go ahead in, to save embarrassment!
=== If that doesn't work to get her to a Doc, call 911; ask them to "help get Mom to see the Doc"; that you "do not know what to do to get Mom the help she needs"; that you are "very concerned for your Dad's safety".
They might have other suggestions or referrals...but...
They might send an ambulance and haul her to the E.R.
IF they do that, encourage them keep her there!
IF Mom somehow ends up in the Hospital for anything, encourage them to keep her there!
Do /NOT/ let the hospital, or E.R., push you into taking her home.
Mom sounds like she's unsafe on her own, and Dad is unsafe with her there. You Likely cannot have her in your home, because [pick some]....there is no room; or, there are kids; or, you are too sick yourself to properly care for her.
----IF you take her in, you are stuck with her and her behaviors, which will get worse--can you really handle it?
Once in your home, facilities can and /DO/, refuse admittance...you are stuck.
Most facilities and many professionals, do anything they can, to prevent having to get stuck caring for patients who act-out badly......I've seen what gets done from the facility's side, and from the caregiver side, to avoid taking in more patients with behavior issues.
You are in a position to advocate strongly for the health and welfare of your Mom and Dad. Part of that, is sometimes having to get-in-their-faces about doing their jobs in taking proper safe care of an elder, instead of foisting it back on those who no longer can do it.
If you prevent the Hospital sending her home, they must find her a facility--even if it's for longer observation.
IF they give you too much trouble about it, call APS on the hospital; report them trying to abandon a frail elder who is no longer safe on their own, or may be a danger to her frail elderly spouse because of her behaviors.
IF your plans to move Mom 500 miles away do work out, and things go as planned, that would be a nice thing for Mom...but imho, it will not guarantee her behavior would be any better. She would likely still rage, still act-out.
IS your Brother good at dealing with her?
Or, is he likely to stop visiting because of the stress of dealing with her?
Does she have at least several friends who really will visit her?
Or, will she end up mostly spending every day in the facility, alone?
If she was in a Facility nearer you, would you be visiting her more often?
If she was in facility nearer you, would Dad visit her at all? Would he want to?
If she's in a facility near you, and Dad starts feeling better for it on his own, might he want to visit her sometimes? He can't do that if she's 500 miles away.
IF she's placed in a closer facility, she's away from Dad, keeping him safer, sooner maybe...and IF Dad wants no part of her after a few months alone, Mom could always be moved from one facility to one 500 miles away, later.
Sure hope you can get her to the Doctor.
IF not, please try some of the alternatives one can use at home, to help her body be healthier, and maybe fight off a UTI.
But please, still call people for help dealing with this. It sounds like Dad needs respite, sooner than later.
Keep us posted!
Dad will be living in his home, with help from one daughter and a grandaughter who will move in if he needs more help.
We will try very hard to get her to a doctor.
I have also seen, with my own parents, that if they are not separated or given some time away from one another at the least, it can lead to abuse...both verbal and physical.
So, in your case, I agree the two need to have space between them. Whether it is 500 miles...I don't know. Sounds extreme and problematic. Perhaps you should consult with an elder care organization or expert, if available locally.
I wish you and your family...peace.
I did not read anything but your question. Call ADPS ASAP.
As a perquisite to moving where she'd like to move, she goes to the doctor for a complete and thorough check up. Someone in the family takes dad into their home to get him away from any acting out mom may do -- they BOTH get to see what living apart is going to mean.
Forget honoring her wishes to move her 500 miles away to a memory care unit. Move her into a memory care unit wherever it is most convenient for the rest of the family. You say she has dementia and you're letting her tell YOU where she's going to live? You need to rethink your plan.
1/ How can you plan to get her unannounced into a car and drive? 500 miles while she rages against you, yet you won't force her to the ER or a doctor?
2/ If you plan to offer care to both parents, but they are now separated by a vast distance... how is that going to work, or are you planning to wash your hands of Mom altogether?
3/ Your Dad is being a little passive aggressive himself... it is always so much easier to fix the other person than make changes ourselves. While I sympathize with his desire to be free of her rages, Dad will probably need to move into assisted living himself after she is gone. Why not make the move now, even just for a respite stay? His options would be seem much clearer once they are apart.
As for the idea you are honouring her wishes, it is "eyewash" indeed! Giving into irrational behavior and delusions is not honouring anything, it is running away from the responsibility to get things under control.
Do any other family members live near this ILF?
It isn't the moving her to a facility, or the extracting her from your poor father's daily life, that I'm querying. It's just that unless he really wants never to see her again, or not much anyway, that sounds like an awfully long way. Absence does make the heart grow fonder, after all, and should he begin to miss her you could end up with the ghastly outcome that over time he forgets all the abuse and moves there to be with her. Is there no suitable facility within reasonable, regular visiting distance?
The "spin" - your word, not mine - that you're honouring her wishes in the choice of area is actually total eyewash, isn't it. As you say, you're relying on the sudden recent announcement of a person whom you know is a) indulging in fantasy and b) completely losing the plot, what with her lengthening rages and verbal assaults on your father.
In any case, to move your mother without her fully informed consent the family will have to establish that she has lost capacity and then either exercise power of attorney, assuming you have it, or apply for guardianship. If you really can't get her to her doctor, then you could try recording episodes and showing them to her doctor with a request that he come and evaluate her.
I understand and am sorry for your father's fear of your mother's reaction to being separated from him; but she is eventually going to find out! So, again, unless he plans never to cross her path in the future he will at some point have to hear her view of the matter. His degree of fearfulness seems quite extreme: is he afraid for his personal safety, or just worn down with being yelled at?
I think they both need a physical and perhaps a neuro-psychological evaluation. I wouldn't take your Dad's word for Mom's behavior from 500 miles away.When my husband became rageful it was so against his normal personality, but as his wife, I was not able to see his behavior as illness. I was first so angry and hurt. I detailed the progress of my changes in a book called Put That Knife Away. It may be helpful for you to read it.
If moved the rages may very well continue. Is there family nearby to assist when mom has an emergency? Assisted living in my area is not permitted by their license to administer meds that are prescribed as needed, all meds need a regular schedule.
I understand that you need to protect your dad and I am sure her rages frighten him. She needs to be checked out by a doctor to determine if there is a medical reason for them. If moved she is to assisted living you need to have her examined. You will find out very quickly how badly she really wants to move if she has to see a doctor first.