Mom’s dementia and her house. Any guidance on what to do?

It truly isn't good to have an empty house. They deteriorate rapidly and things get missed. If a family member wishes to live there as "caretaker" you may want to consider that. As to things that can be eliminated in an overcrowded house you will know what that is. Take it slowly. The number of duplicate photos I have elminated alone in an evening isn't nothing. So take it slow and begin to haul things away a bit at a time. You will know what records need to be kept, and for how many years. Get rid of the rest of it. I sure wish you luck in this. If you are POA you can work on this. I don't know that I would sell. Any assets might preclude Mom from getting assistance. Her medicaid if she gets it will recover funds upon sale of the home after her demise. As you say, she is confused, but remember, that long term memory can last.
You can only do what you can do. I wish you luck.

How old is your mom? Is she in a nursing home? Has she been deemed incompetent? Do you have POA? All these answers would help you decide if it's time for you to go ahead and pack up the house and sell it.

If she is not competent, you don't need her permission as she isn't really capable of giving it. In that case, I would not even talk to her about it as it would be too upsetting to her.

It is sad to think of selling a house that has been a big part of your family but it does often become the logical and realistic thing to do.

I hope you have siblings that can help you with this huge task. Even if you are not ready to totally pack up and sell, you can start working on the "low hanging fruit". Get rid of anything that is not worth saving ASAP. Even if, by some miracle, mom was able to come home, I am 99% certain there is a lot in that house that can be thrown out without a second thought. You could always start working on that first level of items while you figure out the rest.

Good luck.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/selling-moms-home-any-advice-463103.htm

You got some good advice on a similar question you asked back in November. I can see with the holidays this decision was put on the back burner. Looks like I didn't reply to that one.

I am with Alva here. The best thing you can do is sell the house. My Moms didn't sell till 2 yrs after her death. She went into an AL in 2016, LTC 2017 where she passed that year. I put her house up for sale in 2015. A 125yr old Farm house that my parents never had the money to properly keep up. Especially after my Dads death in 2006. I tried to get Mom to move into an apt. A lot of her monthly income was going to taxes. There were reasons why the house didn't sell till 2019 and then the price I got only covered the taxes (which I stopped paying once Mom was on Medicaid) and the Medicaid lean of 6k, (Mom passed 2 1/2 months after receiving Medicaid). We kids got 10k split 3 ways. The place was falling apart. And from 2015 to 2019 it just got worse. No one wanted to buy a house that needed so much work. The only upside, was I took my time cleaning out. But what a relief when it sold. Once Mom was on Medicaid, I was out of pocket for the utilities. I did stop the phone service when Mom moved out. I kept the thermostat at 55. Left one light on at night on a timer. I left the car in the drive to look like the house was lived in. But it was an Albatross around my neck. A weight was lifted when I signed those sale papers.

Your Mom will never be able to return to her house. Yes, she may always say "I want to go home". It may not even mean the home she grew up in, it may mean the one she grew up in. One day she may forget both.

My suggestion is sell. But you need to get Market Value if Mom ever needs Medicaid. The proceeds can only be used for her and you need to keep good records. My Realtor accessed by house but I wish I had used an accessor. Start cleaning out the nonessential stuff. My MIL hoarded magazines that she neatly put in a closet. First thing to go, as were books. What you, sister or other family members don't want sell or give away. I know what its like to sell a home you were raised in. Its kind of bitter sweet. My Moms house looks so good. The owner has changed the whole look. I kind of using the present structure for support.

Westsign, are you paying for empty house insurance?   Is there any consideration for renting the house and applying the rentals towards maintenance and your mother's fees at wherever she's living?

Might want to talk to an Elder Care Attorney first but...
mom has dementia she can not make a decision.
If she has been declared incompetent she legally can not make a decision.
Family decision time about all the "stuff"
Divide up what family wants. (try not to kill each other in the process.)
Pack up what is to be saved.
Sell what no one wants
Donate what will not sell.
Sell the house. Must be at Fair Market Value.
Money to be used for Mom's care.

Thanks everyone for your input

There’s no reason to feel guilty for packing up the house and selling it. Is it sad? Definitely! But is it wrong? No.

Your indecision on what to do isn’t about the house itself... it’s that selling it would make it ‘real’ that Mom is incapacitated and life will never go back to how it was before. That you will lose her eventually. And those are hard things to accept.

Thing is, the memories and love you had in the house won’t end! You can keep those forever. The house is just a frame around a picture of your life, if that makes sense. Take the picture out of the frame, and it’s the same picture, yes?

You could also take pictures of the house, the yard, family heirlooms, both inside and out and make a photo album of it. You could gather pictures from when it was newer, and some of the great family celebrations that took place there, and make a book called "The House that Love Built, 405 Street Drive", and get mom to tell you stories about the pictures and then type the stories into the book. Shutterfly has great options for making books. Then when it's finished, Mom can have a copy and any other family members who want a copy can purchase their own from Shutterfuly.

Like many others have said, start packing. Do the obvious, no brainer things first. Take out trash, any items of furniture that are damaged that would not sell to anyone. Get it all out of there. Then take a rest and evaluate. Are there items you want? If so get them out of there. Be very careful not to think EVERYTHING is so sentimental you can't part with it. The items are not your memories. If you don't have a place for it in your home to give it the honored space and use it deserves, than sell it to someone who will use it. After you clear out the belongings, then have a realtor/appraiser/inspector come and do an evaluation on the home from sale value and/or rental value. Maybe you aren't ready to sell it yet, but perhaps you could rent it to a young family who needs a break and rent it to them for enough to cover the utilities, upkeep and taxes, until mom passes? I have a friend who is currently renting her aunt's home while the aunt take care/lives with her mother. It's a win-win for the family. Think outside the box.
We have downsized my aunt/uncle from a 4000 sq ft farm/house, to a 2 bedroom IL apartment. They took WAY more than they needed, and have some of it in storage. It's hard to see your beloved possessions go to another person, but sometimes it's necessary. I am a Bible Believing Christian and I like to think of it like the parable of the talents--we need to use the gifts we've been given and invest them, not just store them up.

Would she believe there was a fire and it burned to the ground?

Remove the nicer stuff and say that was all the firemen could save.

I think the idea of making a memory book of the house and its good times is a wonderful thought! So, start taking a lot of photos before you dispose of the contents.

As another poster wrote, "Your indecision on what to do isn’t about the house itself... it’s that selling it would make it ‘real’ that Mom is incapacitated and life will never go back to how it was before."

I went through a similar thing with my father, who had vascular dementia. Interestingly, I just stepped in and "did what needed to be done." But my older brother was in denial, and kept thinking that we could just have aides come in to assist him with his care and he would be okay living alone in the house. He seemed oblivious to the fact that it was "unsafe" for dad to do this as he was getting more and more confused with each passing month.

My dad and many others are in same situation. I am interested in hearing the answers. Communion sense says to clean and sell, however, emotions say keep it. Good luck.

You never know but for now, just pack her stuff up and Rent the house out.

Or, let her move back in and hire a Live In.

For now, shouldn't be in a hurry to sell her home.

You can get income by renting it out.

If the house isn't sold, is there any possibility that someone in the family would want to live in it? If not, then it probably doesn't make sense to keep it.

Soon after my sister and I moved our parents, we sold their house. (After retirement, they moved into the house in which my mother had spent her teen years, which they still had 13 years after her widowed father died.) My father had asked me a year or so before we moved them if I wanted to live there, and although it was a nice place to visit in the summer, I felt it wasn't the most practical place for me to live so I said no (too far from most amenities, considerable upkeep, and rather long, harsh winters).

We sold it to their next-door neighbor who wanted it as an investment to rent out. (I received a few estimates, and then we just sold it directly to the neighbor at a fair price, which they agreed upon the next day after walking through it, so this was a very simple process.) We deposited the proceeds from the house into our parents' trust account for their care. I figured it made more sense to sell something that requires money for upkeep, etc. than to sell stock that generates income. My memories of the house have to do more with visiting grandparents than parents, and once none of them were living there, it became just another piece of real estate. (I've moved enough times that I simply don't get emotionally attached to places, and I've never owned any real estate so this wasn't the best place for me to start, and renting it out isn't so practical when living 400 miles away.) The proceeds from the house were useful for paying for our parents' care (by the time it was sold, they both needed nursing home care) while the stock dividends also helped. I visit that area each year, and my mother asked about the house, and I could honestly tell her it looked "happy" from what the former neighbor says and how the tenants have put their own touches on the outside.

I feel we did the right thing and everybody involved "won"--the house went to someone who wanted it and appreciated it, the money went for our parents' care, and now that both parents have passed, my sister and I will have the stocks (for our own old age!)..

Everyone will have a different opinion regarding “elder care,” but that’s because each situation is unique.

I can only share my personal experience with my parents’ home. My mom passed in 2012 (Parkinson’s disease and pneumonia). At the time of her death, my dad was in nursing care (prostate cancer that spread to the hip and possibly other areas—he passed in 2016). Because we knew that he wasn’t returning home, we began to make plans regarding the house. I was POA, and the legal documents stated that I could make financial decisions including sale of property, etc.

Because my dad still had most of his mental faculties, I wanted to show him what the cost was for “maintaining” his empty house. I knew that if the house remained unoccupied, there would be a much higher insurance premium to pay. Once I showed him the bottom line, he agreed that it was time to sell the house.

The first thing I did was clean up some of the spaces and had a realtor come in to give us some ideas on possible updates we could do that would bring a higher resale value. We also had an inspection done, so we wouldn’t be surprised by major problems (there were several). Dad had enough money that could be used to update his basement and make it a liveable space, so we planned for that. There are 5 kids in my family and I discussed all of this with them. It wasn’t required, but I wanted to include them.

Before the remodel, we hired a company to do an estate sale. I had all my siblings decide what items were of sentimental value or that they just wanted to own and I had them remove the items before the Estate Sale. Whatever was left after the sale, the siblings rummaged through a second time and choose items for themselves or their kids, and the rest we donated.

Next came the remodel, which included touching up the trim on the outside of the house, updating some landscaping (my husband did this, since he owns a garden center), repairs made to a fireplace, treatment for termites and pests, some roofing needs, and completely painting the interior of the house to make it clean and fresh looking. We also worked through the checklist of recommendations by the home inspector. Once completed, we had a realtor come back to arrange for selling the house.

Once the house was nearly ready to sell, my brother and I took our dad through the house so that he could see the updates and have his moments (as we all needed) to recall fond memories and recognize that another family would now make their own memories in the house. It was a sweet time, even though months later Dad had forgotten that we put the house up for sale.

None of this is easy for those who have had fond memories of their family home and all the gatherings, parties, friendships, holidays, etc. But holding on when it’s past time to let go, is even more exhausting and emotional.

We sold the house to a young couple. My daughter and I revisited the house about 2 years later. The owner was so sweet to walk us through and show us the updates they had made. They had a son and the owner was so thrilled to be in this house raising her son. She said that she wanted this home to be their forever home and hoped to fill it with several children in the coming years. New family memories in our old family house—couldn’t be a better ending!

We were in this same situation in 2019 and it was so hard to decide what to do. This was our family home built by our parents and where we all grew up. It was also 50 years old and there were so many memories within those walls. But, it became clear that it wasn't safe for Mom to go back and the house was sitting vacant. We knew it was just a question of time before things would start to deteriorate. Already the mice had made a nice home for themselves. So, we decided to clean it out and put it on the market. We kept all the things that meant something to us and gave away a lot. The house sold just before everything shut down last year and, while it is still painful to drive by, I knew it was the right thing to do. We still had the memories from our time there and it was time for another family to make their own memories.

My Mom passed away in December and I realized that going through all the personal things and selling the house while she was still alive was one step toward letting go. I was so glad I had that behind me so I could grieve her loss without also grieving the loss of the house I grew up in.

Everyone's decision is, of course, a personal one that is best for them and their family. I wish you peace in whatever you chose to do.

This question makes me cry. Do what you need to do.
My Dad died in September from COVID and until literally the last minute, we thought Mom would have to go into a nursing home because he provided a lot of her care--even though he was in a wheelchair. (She is too--stroke--but it worked for longer than anyone expected. They also had daytime care and my sister and I split weekend duties.)
This has been their only home; my sister and I grew up there, so I feel that part--as well as in our case, 58 years of "stuff." Mom's back home, we've been cleaning and sorting and she's OK with that. But when it comes time to tell her she has to leave...Dad got out "easy."

I'm looking into doing respite care for my wife. This is on a day by day basis and would help the caregiver get some break from the action. It may be a positive transition if the person with dementia can see the positive side of being in a facility but is not committed to a long term obligation.

Thanks again everyone for your input. I guess as hard as it is I will have to take steps on emptying the house. The harsh reality of Dementia is Mom will never be the same. Most of the time she doesn’t remember what we talked about 5 minutes ago. It’s been one of the hardest thing i have had to deal with. I feel bad for my Mom as well and her inability to function like before. I thank everyone again for sharing because I know it need to let go too.

I hear how she feels and I understand, same for you - but facts are facts. The house is sitting empty. For heaven's sake, don't tell her anything - just go and do what you have to do to get the house ready to sell. Do it in peace and silence. She is getting older, can't go there, and the house will deteriorate if not used. Sell it while you can and have the funds available for her future care. Just do it. By the time this all happens, she may be force and be more agreeable to "understanding" - well, let's hope so. Just do what you have to do and do it now but tell her nothing.

You need professional help. You can not "get rid" of 50 years ...my home! Forget that. Is the efforts to avoid probate been done....estate...
The professional help will deal with "her wishes" no matter what is "reality". You will not only run out of "how to deal with" and your relationship could deteriorate to verbal abuse and worse.

When I moved my mother to assisted living, it happened after a fall and she broke her ankle. We agreed for her to be there for awhile. It became very apparent in a short period of time that she needed to be in assisted living. I had looked into a senior apartment for her, but thank goodness my husband pointed out at the rate she was going down hill we would need to get her back into assisted living in not to long. Besides there was a waiting list that was years long. After a year with her constantly asking to go home we cleaned the place out and sold it. Difference being she didn't need to sign anything since we had purchased the place for my parents to live in when they went bankrupt a few years earlier. We kept her personal belongings and sorted clothing. The rest I had my siblings decide what they wanted, I kept a few things and the rest was either donated or put in the trash. As far as my mother was concerned I just kept saying a little longer. She had no concept of time. When she would ask for something that is in the hall closet, I just couldn't find it or if I had it I would bring it to her. That was 9 years ago. 2 years ago she moved into a LTC. She still asks when she can go home. The past year I changed it up a bit and tell her because of Covid she must stay there. Once this is over I'll just go back to in a while when the Dr says you can. I tried telling her a few years ago that we sold the place and we even had her come to our house to help with the Yard sale. A week later she had forgotten completely about it. It is better to just say pretty soon. As soon as the doctor thinks you will be ok to go home. There is absolutely no way to be honest without making them angry and difficult for staff to handle. When she used to ask where Dad is, that she wants to go see him. We used to take her for a ride around the countryside she grew up in. By time we would get her back to the home she would be tired and forget where she had ask to go. I quit telling her Dad died years ago. It would just make her cry. I put together picture albums and when I would visit we used to go through them and I would ask about the people in them. The staff has told me with Covid this has been very helpful. When she gets agitated they pull out an album and look at it with her. She also has fun talking to residents and showing them. It gets them all sharing stories. It is heart breaking to close out a household of 50 years, but it needs to be done.

Where is she living? Unless she can move back with 24/7 health aides then she won’t be back. My mom did go back this way for 5 yrs but now lives with me. For sentimental reasons I couldn’t sell the house. We kept it in the family as a rental.

Westsign,

I completely understand your pain!

My Aunt has Alzheimer's. After my Uncle passed, I had to move my Aunt into ALF/memory care from the home she had lived in for 45 years.

She needed the proceeds from her house to live on, so the house was sold. It needed more repairs than she could afford and she was not safe to live alone. It was the most agonizing decision to make!!

If Mom truly is never going back, it seems to me that the cost of hanging on to the house may be needless. Taxes, yardwork, utilities and maintenance can be expensive.

Hopefully Mom has a POA in place!

BEST wishes and (((hugs)))

Looks like you've recently made your decision to move forward with clearing out the house and prepare it for sale. Hard as it might be, it won't get any easier if you leave it until she passes. You have no idea how long that wait might be. The place can deteriorate. The insurance needs to be updated to unoccupied, which can be expensive. If something happens, regular insurance can refuse to pay. The cost of upkeep, taxes and potential repairs outweigh so much!

As with others, it took me a long time to get everything done. Little help from brothers, 1.5 hr drive each way and 25+ years of "stuff" to deal with. Some "stuff" is clearly trash (mom was saving the oddest things!) Some things have little or no value. The neighbor did ask if there were items we could donate to their church rummage sale. Mismatched glassware, various other items, yup! Boxed and left in shared garage.) Brothers took a number of items. I didn't want much of anything. My plan, when I bought this place, was to get it fixed up and then go through my "stuff" and clear out what I could. Mom's dementia got in the way. OB dumping so much "stuff" here after they got what they wanted - most of it should have been trashed or left out with a FREE sign!!! Just more crap for me to deal with. Now I also have everything that was left when she passed. Augh. MORE crap to weed through. We donated some items, but the worst was all the clothes, shoes and handbags! Had I known she had all that, I would've pushed harder after my son's wedding (OB stayed there, contacted me via text on my way to the wedding asking what to do, mom picked out something but can't fit in it! Luckily his daughter was with me, so she did the texting, but geez, use a brain cell or 2 - pick out something else! What did he think I was going to do at 60mph on the highway!!!)

Anyway, getting rid of obvious things and other things no one wants will clear out quite a bit. Donate clothes no one wants. There are places you can donate furniture to, ours even took mattresses! Let family decide if they want items. Personally, if you have no room for it, take a picture for memories and sell or donate it. YB took a lot from the storage unit we had so I could get rid of that, and now he has a unit chock full! His problem, not mine!!!

Watch George Carlin's show on "stuff" - it kind of puts things in perspective. It is all just "stuff." Many items may bring back fond memories but that doesn't mean we need to hang on to it. Unless something is clearly of value, understand that most of us own things that are not really antiques (mom's furniture was a good case in point - probably 60's, so not really antiques and most likely mass-produced, so a dime a dozen. Same for all those "collectibles." Check online - most aren't worth what they cost to buy!)

Once cleared, cleaned, spruced up and repairs are done, sell it for the best price and put the proceeds in/or open a trust for mom, to cover her needs. Wisely invested, this can bring in income, maybe even more than renting would net, AND is a lot less work or headache than renting a place!!

NOTE TO ALL: Once that house sells, there could be tax implications, regardless of that exclusion they allow. Mom's was a Life Estate, sold before she passed, so she only netted a small amount based on IRS life expectancy charts. However, it was enough that 2 years later Medicare jacked up her cost, because it increased her income that year and they have a 2 yr lookback. It will revert the next year, which I could see in the projected SS, but sadly mom passed before she could benefit. ALSO, you won't get SS for the month they pass, even though they still have expenses AND the payments are for the previous month - for instance, Jan 2021 payment is really for Dec 2020, but if they pass ANY day in Dec, they don't get the payment. Pension was the same. IT SUCKS and I plan to contact my Congress reps.

I feel for you. It seems like you know that this is the safe place for your mom and that she is not going to every go back home. If you are the POA, it is not her decision but yours. She does not need to know about it, you are doing the right thing. I had the help of cousins who went through this with my aunt in the last few years. Last year my mom (92 now ) had to go into AL/MC after a hospital stay. I am the POA and only surviving child. She and my dad (who died over 30 years ago) built the house 70 years ago. It was not safe for her to be alone at her home and the cost to have someone with her was too much. She still wants to go back home. We tell her in a little while when the doctors says it is OK. When she asks about the house, I say everything is OK and being taken care of. I did talk with a elder care lawyer and he gave me a list of papers we would need should we need to apply for Medicaid in the future if needed. Make sure you keep things like birth certificates, marriage license, and military papers, tax returns and bank records. We took pictures inside and out before we packed up things. Mom over the years told us how she did not want things to go. Like no garage/estate sales . We kept things she may need at MC , I asked the family if they knew of anything they wanted and informed them of the short list of things mom wanted them to have . Most things went to charity. One day after she fell and broke her hip and was in a wheel chair, she ask about the house, I stated the insurance company said they would no longer cover it because it was empty. She said "well I guest we better get rid of it". I agree with the others, get an inspection and appraisal to know the value. Mom's house appraised for 20% more than what the realtor wanted to list for, which I thought was too optimistic already. Prices have increased a lot by us.

Hopefully all of the paperwork is in order for you to take charge of her financial and medical matters: Power of Attorney for financial and medical decisions, living will with her medical directives (more important than ever during the pandemic), will, and some financial institutions have their own POA forms, social security and medicare need to have you on record as someone who can speak on her behalf. It sounds like she may have dementia if she is losing her ability to make decisions. Are you currently handling all of her financial matters? You may want to consult with an attorney, as the sale of her house may affect what options are open to her if she needs to move to a long-term care facility. And there are usually community resources that can advise you what your options are for free. If you have POA you should make decisions that will leave enough money for her to live in the best possible way until the end of her life. It sounds like it would not be possible for her to go back to her house, unless she has aides caring for her. If she is not visiting her house, can you just do what needs to be done without telling her? I'd advise downsizing her, rather than putting a lot of household goods in storage. Just keep what she might be able to use in an assisted living facility studio or 1-bedroom apartment, including pictures and sentimental items. She wouldn't be much help with downsizing if she is having difficulty making decisions. You might be better off if a friend helps you do the downsizing, as many items will also be sentimental for you. Good luck! I know how hard it will also be for you to see the childhood home sold.

Westsign: I do wish you the best of luck in moving forward to sell the vacant home.

One thing I forgot to add - mom's case might have been different, as the condo was put into a Life Estate, but I don't think so. Since they own the place, apparently the actual deed must be signed by them and notarized. I was aghast when the attorney told me I had to do it this way! Mom had finally forgotten about the condo (9 mo after the move) and I didn't want this to reawaken the memory!

Thankfully her facility had a notary. When she joined us, I asked if she had to confirm mom knew what she was signing or just witness - the answer was just witness!! Mom's hearing was really bad, so she didn't hear any of that. I passed the document off as some kind of insurance paperwork or something like that. I had been doing her finances, taxes, etc so long, that she likely trusted whatever I was doing!

I still think this is wrong, but it's what he said had to be done. Just a little head's up, as you might have to get her to sign the deed. If she's easily confused, pass it off as new insurance for the house or something along those lines. Clearly if she can read, she'd notice it was house related. SOME kind of fib should work, should you have to do this too (atty told me ALL other documents regarding the sale I could sign as DPOA, but not the deed.)

Is there no other family members who could live in it? it is very sad if your mum has to sell the house, just thought that if some family could move in it may help your mum, you could even bring her there to visit at different time.