I posted here last July for the first time because I was struggling with how to deal with the needs of my dysfunctional family. I'm sure many of you dealing with these kinds of situations will not be surprised to know that little has changed. I'm here now because the situation really has reached its climax for me - either things change, or I have to find a way to leave ASAP.
Quick summary - both parents in late 70s, father has an autoimmune condition which causes problems with balance and walking and his "mind has started to go" (though he will never get tested). He has started to repeatedly fall for scams (nearly wired $500 to a scammer, got his computer hacked by giving access to someone over the phone, has gotten conned into giving ride to random person who then hit him up for money). You've never met someone in your life who has his head buried so deep in the sand - refuses to deal with reality. If anyone can give him a run for his money in that regard, it's my mother. After YEARS of trying, finally got her in to get tested and confirmed she has mild-moderate Alzheimer's. She's also as personality disordered as they come. Narcissistic, histrionic, obsessive compulsive, the consummate martyr and eternal victim. She's disgustingly emotionally manipulative and has made my life a nightmare. And my father has made it his life's work to enable her. My role is black sheep, scapegoat, and punching bag...oh, and the "adult".
About 4.5 years ago I moved "home" to get back on my feet after losing my job. What ended up happening is that I've gotten sucked into the black hole that my parents are. I've totally lost myself. I suffer from chronic depression and anxiety, and now add to that a level of anger that is absolutely killing me. I'm broke. I have no support from family, no friends nearby and those who were my friends have dropped off the map. And still I know, it can always get worse. That's what I'm trying to prevent right now. I really feel it's now or never.
Here's the deal. My mother's lifelong love and obsession and dysfunction is money. But the disease is catching up with her now and in the last 6 months she has started to forget to pay bills. Their cell phones were almost turned off the other day because she hadn't paid the bill since January. Every day is Groundhog Day, with her manipulating me into her psychodrama because she can't remember how to long into an account, doesn't know passwords, etc. I am so furious I refuse to continue like this. So I have put my foot down and said it is time for her to sign the POA and let me pay the bills. But she persists in her old ways and makes progress impossible. And my father will acknowledge privately to me I'm right, then five minutes later he'll be threatening to hit me and telling me to back off and leave him alone. They have no will, no medical advanced directive/POA, refuse to make arrangements to move to a community where they can transition to assisted living (which are at a minimum a year's wait to even get into). In my efforts to try to get them to turn over the bills, it has also become patently clear that they don't know what all their bills, assets, investments and insurance policies are. They don't know what they're for, can't find previous statements...it's appalling.
So I'd like to consider a hypothetical. What would happen if I left and left them to flounder? (Now, I'm not in a financial position to do this immediately, but if this is the best option, then I know I need to get creative and try to work something out). What happens when my mom's Alzheimer's worsens, her credit goes down the tubes, they haven't arranged for any care and there's no designated POA? Does this responsibility ultimately always come back to the children anyway? Because my fear has been that if I don't deal with this now, I'm going to have to take them to court later to get guardianship and I can't even stomach the thought. If all roads lead back to me, then I would rather push through now and figure out a way to get the POA signed at least.
Bottom line is, I need to save myself from this sinking ship. But once I've jumped ship, I don't want to still be roped to it. So can I leave them to wallow in their own mess, or do I need to get the POA and get them to commit to alternative living arrangements before I go if I really want to be free(er) of this and move on?
Also, you don't "have" to take them to court for guardianship, regardless of how bad their situation gets. But it sounds like your mother is relying on you a lot and if you leave, there may be a lot of phone calls from her trying to rope you back in. You can use her/their helplessness as a lever to get them to cough up a POA and maybe make some other changes, but not if you keep getting roped in and not using the power that you have. Good luck!
I wish I would have gotten it and I would have sent it. (No scams) LOL
I do have one sibling - a brother who lives 9 hours away and is married with kids. He washed his hands of this awhile back. Most he'll do is reiterate to them that they need to get the will, POA, etc. taken care of, but he rarely sees them and has given up dealing with them. His opinion is I should leave and let them flounder and if we need to take them to court later, so be it. I do not want to do that. When I leave, I'd like them to be in a safe place with their bills being taken care of so that I can live my life as peacefully as possible and only interact with them as needed for brief periods of time. My brother does not have the same relationship with them that I do - they have always left him alone (he's 12 years older than me, from my mom's first marriage). So he's as disgusted as I am, but not as emotionally wrapped up in the dysfunction.
You make an astute observation about my mother and phone calls. She gets very "borderline" with me. She does nothing but criticize me but anytime I leave she stalks me by email and phone. ("I hate you!...don't leave me!") Has always been that way. She has always undermined my efforts to be happy and independent. So I anticipate if I leave she will do the same this time. That's another reason I kind of wanted the POA taken care of, as well as a spot reserved in assisted living. Because as long as I know they're taken care of, I don't need to respond to those gestures. I'm afraid if I leave them in a lurch, she'll use that against me and continue to call me repeatedly for help. My brother says "So what - don't pick up the phone". Spoken by someone who's never been stalked by a dysfunctional mom before. Whether I pick up the phone or not, it's absolutely psychologically damaging to endure this over and over again.
I did give my parents an ultimatum today - I told them if they don't agree to sign the POA and make living arrangements, I will not lift another finger to help them. No mowing the lawn, no cooking, no helping with bills, etc. They didn't respond. And I guarantee you tomorrow we'll have the same argument all over again. Like I said, Groundhog Day.
Who does the shopping and how is that paid for? Are they giving you any money for your own needs? Is Dad still safe to be driving? you may need to call in adult protective services to get this all sorted out. What are your plans if you walk out?
You gave an ultimatum. No need to argue - just stick to it if you think it is the best thing. You could contact your local agency on aging for ideas and also APS for an evaluation of your parent's ability to live alone. You can tell them (APS) that you are unable to give your parents the care they need and move out into a shelter and get your own life back on track. Realise it is going to get worse as they decline. Good luck and blessings.
@emjo23 Your point about being paid by them for my services is a great one.
Right now, here's what I'm thinking. Like @veronica91 said, I'm going to have to collect the information myself because they're not going to do a thing. Unfortunately my mother is the gatekeeper to some of these accounts (checking and savings, of note), so without her cooperation to give me login information, I won't be able to do this. But I'm leaning toward collecting info for all the bills I can find, and putting together the POA and including a specification that I should be paid a fee for certain services (e.g., tax returns, business-related meetings, travel expenses, etc.). I will consult an elder care attorney as necessary to make sure I've done it correctly. Then I will present this to them. If they refuse, I will not provide any further assistance to them and will focus on getting out of the house immediately (I don't have a plan for this). And in the meantime @pamzimmrrt I agree with you that I'm not going to help remind them of bills unless and until they agree to cooperate. If they agree, then I will proceed with the POA duties and in the meantime shift my focus to making enough money to get out asap.
IF I can get them to agree to sign it, I know another hurdle I have is co-managing finances while they are still competent. My mother uses money as a tool for manipulation. They do still pay some of my bills which is a problem and is something I'm actively working on eliminating as quickly as possible, but I've been unable to focus on my own career because I'm perpetually drawn into their problems. But even if they weren't giving me some money, my mother's obsession with money is a barrier to being POA. She is absolutely obsessed with her accounts and what has been spent. She is the type who needs to make my nieces and nephews feel guilty for gifts she buys them ("Do you know how expensive that is? What a lucky child you are - I never had anything like that."). When she comes back from the grocery, she obsessively examines receipts and repeats to everyone that the chicken cost $13, and the price of water went up 30 cents, etc. It is this obsession that eats up a huge amount of my time because she "needs" a sounding board. And she has said that if I'm going to pay the bills, she wants me to write down in her little notebook how much was paid. And she still wants to log in to her accounts to see (except she can't remember her logins and I spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with this). So I have said I refuse to do that. If I take over the bills, it's because I need to free up my time - not to continue to feed her obsession. So I can keep repeating this to her, but I'm not sure it's ever going to change. And I can't afford anymore to fill my days with the same arguments.
As for the living arrangements, I know they would have to sell their house to pay for any alternate housing. They're not yet "incompetent", but they aren't able to manage this house without me taking care of things. There's a local community here that offers independent housing options, from which you can be transitioned into assisted living and nursing home care as needed. They have lots of friends there and like it, but it's not cheap. The estimated value of the sale of their house would cover four years or so there. But you can't go straight into assisted living from the community. And it will be almost a year before a home is available to move into. I keep stressing to them that they can't wait until they're incompetent because there won't be anywhere nice to go. But they don't listen. I guess at this point, I'll just focus on the POA and take @Babalou's advice about getting myself financially independent and moving out. Their future living arrangements are in their hands.
I wanted to talk to the bank about Mums accounts. I wasn't POA then and they wouldnt talk to me - fair enough. Once I was POA they still made it difficult until I said something that gave them food for thought. All I said was Mum has given me all her passwods and sewcurity detail so I dont really need you do I? All I am trying to do is work properly with you.
Oddly enough a manager came on the line tried to berate me for having the passwords and was quite surprised when I calmly called him a complete and utter idiot with less sense than my mother who has dementia. Once I had shut him up he listened to me and I explained the situation. I did still need the POA but there is an alternative - they could make you a signitor on their chequing account with your parents agreement and you probably can do that on the phone if they can remember their security details. Alternatively they could add your name to their account - it would still be their money but you could act for them.
Or you could tell them to get on with it
@Veronica91 Good point. I think there's a way to add yourself/make yourself a signatory without being responsible for the account. I know that is possible with my parents' credit cards at least. Will have to investigate the others.
I have to say the deeper I get into this, the more anxiety I am feeling and I'm questioning whether it's the right decision. As I type this, my mother is downstairs putting on hysterics because she has (yet again) logged onto her bank account and has discovered 2 check deductions she doesn't recognize. Now, I know exactly what they are. But she has no clue. She went and paid them in person to the bank and phone company about 4 days ago. But she didn't record them. So she went and found the checks missing from her checkbook and - among the possible explanations she gave to my father - one of them was that perhaps I took the checks!! I mean...is she seriously suggesting I stole 2 checks and forged her signature for the amounts of $37.68 and $26.16?! Now, both she and my father know doggone well I did not and would not do that. But this is an example of what my mom does - blames her mistakes or confusion on others, especially me. So this is my concern - if I take over POA and bill paying, she's going to scrutinize every little thing. And, given that she is easily confused and it's only going to get worse, there's no doubt in my mind she's going to question every payment, every withdrawal, you name it. I'm highly concerned she's going to accuse me repeatedly. Should I do this? I'm very very concerned about what I'm getting myself into.
If you can think of them as some kind of clients rather than your parents it may be helpful. if you have a close friend to confide in he/she will help you find a reasonable path. if you don't have anyone in your life create an imaginary one and when frustration overwhelms as this friend what they would do ot write your questions down. Come here often there are plenty of people at different stages of the same journey who may wish they had started out differently.
At any rate, the primary reason I wanted to get POA was because my time currently is being eaten up largely by my mother's problems with money and bills. So I thought if I could at least take that over, I could give myself some time and space to work more and save up money. But as I said, I am seeing that her manipulative and obsessive personality is determined not to let that happen. Even if I do take over the bills, she's going to eat up my time with incessant monitoring, questions and accusations. I cannot afford to let this happen. What will happen to me?! I'll be homeless and broke and alone. They don't care. All they care about is themselves. So I have to care about myself because nobody else will. And believe me, I have put in so much time and effort with them. I have done everything I can to get them on the right track, but they undermine all my efforts.
At this point I'm wondering if a 3rd party POA would be a better option. Someone not enmeshed in this family dysfunction, and whom my mother doesn't think she can manipulate so easily. I honestly don't want to abandon them, and I do want them cared for, but I can't let this continue or seriously I will be up a creek!
and if anyone wants to check - crack on
Yes, you have to look after yourself. Leaving them at this stage to experience the consequences of their choices is not abandoning them. It may be the only way help can be brought in. Contact APS and the agency on aging and find out what is possible. Get a job and get yourself set up as they are going down in flames and you don't want to go down with them. Keep in contact with them and agencies and be the family "go to" person, but at a distance for now. Have all your efforts to date helped them? Has being there helped you? Think about it!
As you go through paperwork and find important paperwork regarding investments or insurance, place those in the firesafe as well. Eventually you may have it all organized and in one place. Keep their marriage license in there and passports as well. Any military paperwork (discharge) should be in there too. Make a list of important papers and make it a scavenger hunt with your parents. See who can find the most.
I'm really moved by your situation. It hits very close to home. Especially the IT background...I used to do IT-related work and here I've been the network specialist for years. And it's quite possibly the most infuriating part of caregiving for me. The viruses, the forgotten passwords, them incessantly saying their computers have been hacked when actually it's just that they don't know how to use it...it's maddening.
My parents scoff at the cost of the independent living community that feeds into the assisted living community in our neck of the woods. Of course there are cheaper options, but they could *never* slum it like that. Those apartments and companion suites are way too small (and half the cost but who's counting, right?)! Why move into a retirement/assisted living community when the house is paid for, right? No reason to let a little thing like Alzheimer's force you into an unnecessary move.
And I'm particularly sorry about all the family criticism you've received. It is so infuriating to receive judgment from people who have never been primarily responsible for care. I've only got one close family member - my brother - and I updated him days ago about what's been going on and he hasn't even bothered to respond. So for me the issue is primarily lack of support, and then when he or my sis-in-law bother to call, the criticism comes. They feel no guilt, no responsibility. Talk to me like I'm an idiot.
Amazing how these experiences reveal your true friends and family. I personally have none, but, good to know nonetheless.
Advice, "you need to save yourself."
Detach with love. You cannot do that while living there or while being
financially dependent. You can check on their welfare after you move out.
Can they help you with this by getting in touch with sources they may have?
Up the creek, I would see if you could get a lawyer to gie u a consultation for free. I would tell him what u r going thru and find out ur options. You could start with your counties office of the aging and parents doctors. A human can only take so much. You may have to allow them to hit bottom before u can do anything legally. May have to put them in the hands of the state. Wouldn't want guardianship under these circumstances.
I had my Mom put me as a contact for her bills in case she wasn't paying them.
We shouldn't have to give up every part of our lives for our parents. When they start effecting our relationships then its time for an assisted living/nursing facility. They may end up being happier.