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I'm picking out a sentence from the original post that speaks to me - and perhaps warrants a tiny bit of sympathy for the brother: "he doesn't want to see dad die in pain like he was with the gout". I can relate. My father suffered terrible CHF the last two years of his life. Daddy was also on varing amounts of Lasix which he hated. So the doctor put my dad on a "no salt" diet. My mom almost appeared to be trying to kill my dad with what she would cook for him. When I would try to talk to her about adjusting what she cooked she'd reply "but he likes it" or "it makes him happy". Worst of all were the days mom would take dad out for a drive and end the trip with a visit to McDs for French Fries - and yes, daddy loved them. Problem was - every single time following one of these little jaunts or after a sausage dinner, daddy would be in horrible distress breathing for two or three days. The Lasix would be adjusted, then the potassium- UTIs would develop because of the increased urination in depends- which became problematic to change because my dad couldn't breath to move. Trips to the ER often followed to get dads lungs drained. Of course mom couldn't deal with any of this salt aftermath so it was myself and the caregiver cleaning up the crisis. After it was all over we'd have a peaceful few weeks and then it would all start over again. I loved my father as much as any child can - truely, I adored him and seeing him go through this time after time for French fries or sausages broke my heart! So - maybe give the brother in this situation a break? Maybe it is compassion and love - not control that is guiding his actions. I do agree that there is space for a compromise here but maybe take another look at brothers motivation before you decide how you want to approach this topic with him?
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Jeanne, you know I love you...its just, well, think of it this way - suppose someone was badly allergic to oh, let's say seafood - but they loved to eat fish and insisted on eating fish and didn't "want to" give up eating fish...and so ended up in the ER six times a month. Then someone talked them into giving up eating fish, and all that stopped...but they started eating shrimp instead because they were so depressed about not eating seafood. And they just honestly felt that they SHOULD be allowed to eat shrimp because they had given up fish. And the person who they live with is told they have no right to quit buying and supplying shrimp OR fish upon request, just because they have to run this person to the ER every time. I'm not sure that's a slam dunk ethics case one way or the other.

I know, this is not exactly the same thing, and yes, brother ought to ease up a bit, but unless you are truly talking about someone's last supper or their time in hospice care, it may matter very much what they eat! Maybe we need a Least Restrictive Environment approach to eating plans...whatever gives a person the most pleasure and choices without wrecking their health?

My patient was someone who too many people considered a short timer - happens not to be necessarily true - but part of the loss of health in the first place was misguided unrestricted eating (and drinking of sugary sodas by the 2 liters a day) born of the same kind of pity. And this guy probably does not want to get sicker and older faster than he has to, but like most people does not connect the dots.

As far as taking care of the gout with medicines, you can't always put out a fire while someone is pouring gas on it. We can treat asthma with every drug in the book, but until someone cleans up the mold and mildew and stops smoking in the house next to them, very little headway will be made. I doubt this guy really "wants" to stop all coaching and limitations on his diet if it means getting his gout back and maybe even becoming immobile. I doubt my poor grandma, really "got" it or really consciously thought that whatever extra pleasure she got from eating apple pie instead of apples every single time, was really worth losing her legs and her eyesight over - and dying of diabetic complications at age 60. But she did not have a coach, she had my mom, who pretty much believed the eat what you please thing. This guy at age 87 - could spend whatever time he has left, which could be a few years, getting fatter and sicker, hospitalized with his CHF or in pain most of the time, versus hardly ever; it really does matter what he eats.

Anyways, FWIW, it is good to hear that other point of view expressed by someone whose opinions I respect... it opens my eyes to the idea that a lot of the rocket-off-the-growth chart cases we see and feel frustration about because the problem is denied and no changes are made - are probably due to people thinking either black or white like this - either I eat everything I want whenever I want or I am miserable; or OTOH, either I restrict my eating totally to what someone else says I should and should not eat, some of which may be completely wrong, and rebel and resent the h3ll out of them, vs making reasonable choices and compromises.
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Dustien, to copy the thread, the best way is to copy each post separately.

1. Place your cursor on the thread, highlight it all (it'll show up in a blue background).

2. Hold CTRL + C keys together (copying function)

3. In an open word processing documents, hold CTRL + V (paste function).

Alternately:

1. Same as abovde.

2. Right click, click copy.

3. In a word processing document, right click, click paste. If you're using Word 2013, you might have 3 choices of how to paste: (a) keep source formatting (b) merge formatting or (c) keep text only. You can experiment to decide which one is easiest for you to read.
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You have made some points that brother could be trying to prevent pain. In the case of my brother and mother, it was about control.
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Back from trip and I got my brother to promise to lighten up and my dad to promise to try to eat better, if not for my brother's sake, but for his own health. Best I can do I'm afraid. Fingers are crossed.... I also promised brother I'd make the 7 hr trip more often through the year, to give him and sis in law more long weekends away. It's kinda like recharging the batteries.
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