Follow
Share
Read More
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
Wow, lol.

So the police stated, "their response is that the errant daughter DID have legal authority to sell properties and access bank funds as POA and though she may have misapproptiated the assets...". Key word is THOUGH and MAY HAVE. That is polite for No Evidence.

This is the second person who you have accused of being swindled for selling assets for facility costs in your family. These assets should have been sold for care.

You know caregiving and being a responsible POA is a hard enough job without accusations being thrown around. You are not even the beneficiary so why would you think it is okay to put a case for the police together without THEIR consent.

Just not cool at all.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
BurntCaregiver Apr 2021
Stacy0122.

Not cool at all is right. The police and court are not going to take accusations like this seriously because the person was appointed by her father (not the court) and managed his finances for six years with no complaints from him.
Courts see stuff like this all the time. It usually turns out to be a case of greedy, spiteful family members who are resentful because they think they're not getting what they believe they should.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
Balls.

The notion that the police cannot prosecute a crime unless there is a live victim available is *obvious* tosh.

Just think it through.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
preventec47 Apr 2021
Countrymouse. I absolutely agree with you but like I said I talked to a detective that handles these matters.... he said he would review it with his supervisor and call me back which he did. So I have a detective and his supervisor saying this. This is in the County of Fulton township of Brookhaven, Atlanta, GA. the name is Detective West.
(1)
Report
Original Poster here - UPDATE. On behalf of the now current owners siblings, I contacted the
local police and detectives dealing with criminal elder abuse in the "special victims unit" and their response is that the errant daughter DID have legal authority to sell properties and access bank funds as POA and though she may have misapproptiated the assets, the owner of the assets is now deceased and they said in order for them to prosecute a crime there must be a victim and the victim is dead so they cannot prosecute. My reason for contacting the police was to set up a pre packaged situation that the owner siblings merely had to agree to in order for prosecution to proceed so the POA thief daughter could be removed from the property by arrest. The silly detectives recommended that
the matter be pursued civilally with a law suite which is just plain stupid.

Apparently it is pretty easy to get away with elder abuse and now the thief daughter in possession of the house without permission of the current owner siblings now wants to challenge the will which left the property to the other siblings. FYI. There have been zero dollars charged or paid for executor fees.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
AlvaDeer Apr 2021
It looks like you do have your answer. You will have to move forward under the law to evict. What a mess. I feel so bad for you.
(0)
Report
See 6 more replies
Tent the house for termites and give her 30 minutes' warning before setting off the bug bombs.

Change the locks when the tent comes off, call the police to meet her when she comes back, and voila -- problem solved.
Helpful Answer (10)
Report
IamAmy Apr 2021
Wow! Good one.
(0)
Report
Check with your county about eviction. She is not being evicted for non payment of rent, like so many people who lost their jobs. She is being evicted because the house now belongs to other people. That might make a difference. The rules may also have been relaxed now as far as eviction.

She has no means to keep up the house, pay taxes, or any other fees (utilities, as well). What the new owners might offer is to pay her rent in a nearby efficiency apartment, rent-a-room, or other for, let's say, 3 months. If they can just get her out and not make her homeless, an eviction judge may be more agreeable and the new owners can change locks and get their house ready for resale.

Whoever gets along with her the best should approach and be frank with her. House now legally belongs to X and X and she needs to find another place to live. Suggest they pay her rent for a few months, others will help her move out. If it goes the eviction route, rent money will no longer be on the table and she will have no place to live at all. Or better yet, ask her if she will take a small amount like a couple thousand dollars to move out by XX date - payment will be made on day she moves out and locks are changed. Ask a cop to be present for the move-out and the payment to her. She signs a paper accepting the payment to find a new place to live/understands if she returns to this house she is trespassing and may be arrested. Cop would be good witness for the no trespass order. If she'll take a little cash, you avoid eviction and the possibility she has no credit to rent an apartment even if you paid a couple mos rent. You can also scare her with a hint that some family members are considering criminal charges over abusing her dad financially.

If she has things she wants to keep and doesn't want any of you to have them (items from brother/family), then pay first month storage rent for her. She pays future rent or loses it all. You could put your name/contact on the storage when rented. If she doesn't pay, they call you, you go retrieve what you want and dispose of the rest.

This will cost the new owners a little money, but in the end it will probably be cheaper than hiring atty, going to eviction court, and be much quicker so they can recover the bigger money from sale of house.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Ouch!

Please contact a lawyer who either specializes in estates (preferable) or family law. Your situation is a cautionary tale of making sure to give POA only to totally reliable person.

You might consider contacting one of those companies that will inspect the home, give an estimate of value, and pay on the spot. The company will then do all the remodeling and sell it. Also contact a business that will pay to haul away all furnishings in the home. Just make sure to take out any valuables that family members want to keep. The new owners should have access to their home, even with POA daughter living in it.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

I do not believe in coincidence. Here is a post from 2014 from you:

"I have a cousin that as POA has gambled away all of her mothers funds that were earmarked for her incompetent mother's assisted living costs. Her mother
has advanced stages of dimentia and I need to know how to get her daughter
to willingly give up her POA and transfer to another responsible family member.
I have the stick as leverage as I can report her to Health and Human services
and she will be arrested and convicted and sent to prison if she does not.
So what I need is the specific technical details and forms and procedures to
not only get her to resign but also what is necessary to transfer POA responsibility
to someone else. Question one is can someone with durable power of attorney
assign POA responsibility to someone else before they relinquish Durable
POA ?"

So, same relative? Honestly, it sounds to me as if you no idea the costs of private pay for facilities.

So what types of fees are you getting as the executor. It really upsets me when people make accusations and threats of leverage. I guess your family is lucky your the only one on the up and up, huh?
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
igloo572 Apr 2021
Oh Stacy, you get platinum stars on this!
she also posted in 2014 that she was requesting banking, CC, cell phone bills etc from the errant POA and looking at suing them or “felony financial elder abuse”. So much for taking action....
(2)
Report
See 2 more replies
Upon reading other responses, they are correct: if the daughter had Power of Attorney then she has breached her fiduciary responsibility and she should be prosecuted. contact your county district attorney's elder division and put the ball in their court.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
BurntCaregiver Apr 2021
mshog44,

Do you have any idea how easy it is for a POA (that was appointed by the person not the court), to get around prosecution like you're talking about?
The daughter was appointed POA by her father. Not by the court. So her father was the boss of how his money was being spent so she would have been answering to him, not the court.
If he had no problems with how his money was being handled for six years before his death, then it's no one's business. No court or police are going to intervene and prosecute a deceased person's child (who was appointed by them as POA) on behalf of greedy adult siblings who don't think they're inheriting enough of their brother's property. That's not gonna happen. Nor should it ever happen.
(3)
Report
I am not a lawyer, but have gone through probate process....you say you are executor; have you actually been appointed by the court? If not, lodge the will with the court and apply to be administrator and for letters testamentary. If you have, you should have been issued letters testamentary which gives you the power to sell the house. COVId evictions usually apply to renters, not squatters; file the 30 days notice (or whatever your state requires) on the errant daughter and then wait and have her removed from the house.

Property taxes are not the obligation of the siblings; they are the obligation of the estate. Again, not a lawyer and don't know the laws of your state but until the courts are functioning again I doubt the county/city can foreclose for non-payment of taxes. Call the tax authority and explain that the estate is in limbo due to suspension of activity by the courts and ask their advice.

Other than that, all you can tell the siblings is they have to wait for the probate process to play out....and it can be months/years, especially if anyone challenges the will.

Lesson to be learned here: avoid the probate process at all costs. Put assets into a trust with a trustee to take care of things. Make sure bank accounts are joint with someone (the trustee) you can trust; when the joint owner dies the accounts go to the other joint owner(s) simply upon production of the death certificate to the bank. Or, with life insurance or IRA's, designate a beneficiary; this will bypass the probate process unless, of course, someone challenges the designation (for example, if a relative claims the person so designating was not in their right mind when they made the designation; but then they would have to go to court to initiate the challenge).

All this information is out there if you take the time to do the research.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
igloo572 Apr 2021
If you owe property taxes, Covid ime hasn’t seemed to affect that prop taxes are still to be paid as most were due Dec 19 or Jan 20. County / Parish tax collector may waive interest & late fees but by & large taxes still due is my experience. And if delinquent past a certain point (usually 6 months), then property placed on the annual tax sale list. It’s not a secured lending foreclosure like a mortgage would be, but a tax sale due to delinquent taxes with tax lien issued and redemptions done however your state laws allow. Some states - like LA where I am does sales May / June- did suspend sale for 2020 but taxes still due & with serious interest. Meanwhile MS next door did annual sale last week of Aug in 2020 as usual. Redemptions still happened in 2020 /21 for both LA & MS.

Now If your renting or have a mortgage, those were placed on a “moratorium” on a National / federal level due to Covid. Mortgages regulated under federal statutes. For renters it was a CDC order / declaration that renters cannot be evicted due to health concerns but that directive just expired so states r allowing evictions to be filed. The rental $ from ARP still in process of going out as it been only 5-6 weeks so renters don’t have rent $ yet. Unless your city has a program to do rental assistance to “bridge” till AMR $ flows in, you’re getting evicted.

Property tax laws determine by states, so unless your state legislators want to suspend or cancel taxes due to Covid, taxes still due. The local collector can wave fees or late charges, but the tax required is state law. There’s only so much collectors can do. IMHO gonna be a bloodbath for property tax liens & sales for 2021, 2022.
(1)
Report
I’m going to approach this from a slightly different viewpoint.... If your siblings are now the new recorded owners of the property as per the distribution of assets of your brothers estate & its all be done with probate judge sign off and all recorded in courthouse filings, then, Sissy is not a tenant, she’s trespassing on private property and is a squatter.

It’s a whole different situation than what an eviction would be.

Sissy might have had an agreement with Dad & been a tenant of her Dads but he is deceased so that agreement & relationship doesn’t exist anymore.

This is more, in my experience, sheriffs Dept action than the police. I’d suggest that you approach both sheriffs office AND start to find a very experienced Realtor who is used to dealing with difficult properties. I would not have your sibling try to FSBO the house, they need a Realtor who will deal with the property and the Realtor will know of a no BS property management group that will look after the property & often. Yes it will cost but $ can all be paid from the Act of Sale proceeds. To me, your gonna have to get outsiders involved as y’all were flat not willing to get tough with her in the past & she knows that you have no spine.

I would not hesitate in getting this going cause sounds like she’s a bad addict & if she’s that AND mean spirited, I’d be concerned she can find a shady house flipper & they can craft paperwork to “own” the property via an LLC and then flip it to another scumbag LLC.
Helpful Answer (12)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2021
Interesting post.

I just looked up squatters rights in our state.

This does shed new light on the situation.
(3)
Report
It is foolish to not press charges.

If she was a stranger who had robbed your family you would not hesitate to press charges.

It may also help the eviction process to have her in jail.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
MJ1929 Apr 2021
Not to mention it might help her gambling addiction to go cold turkey for a while.

The money's gone and not recoverable, so the best thing is to prosecute and not spend another dime on her if possible.
(6)
Report
Find out when she goes out, arrange a lock smith, and move in and change the locks. Pack all her stuff up and leave it on the lawn. It's their house and she is lucky they are not having her prosecuted for defrauding your brother - personally I think they should use the law against her for that, because no punishment is encouraging her addiction, take away the resources and she will have to accept their help with that, or help in prison, or go cold turkey on the streets. Currently she is in the house and I suspect that if she chooses to sell it as the adult in situ then it could cost a great deal to stop her. The two siblings who own the house really MUST seen some legal advice on this one and not try to be understanding of the daughter, it is likely to turn out badly for them all if they try and be reasonable. Tough love - not permission to carry on.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

If you're not going to press charges, there's no reason to ask for advice.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

Of course you must press charges. Your brother’s memory compels that.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

My opinion here but as the Executor you could have asked for an accounting of Dads assets. Actually, if people knew this was going on they may have been able to have the POA revoked since she was stealing.

I too think she should be brought up on charges. I would also see what can be done about her being evicted since there are new owners of the house.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

This is a criminal offense. POA is a Fiduciary responsibiliity, and what she did is a criminal offense. If you don't want to bring charges or see her in jail then I guess there is not a thing in the world to be done about this. She just defrauded her father and got away with it.
Helpful Answer (10)
Report
Minnbound Apr 2021
Sounds like great advice, but going through something similar with a personal representative (a fiduciary registered with the probate court) of our mother's estate. He sold the house and kept all the money for himself.
I went to Attorney General, local Police and multiple lawyers and ALL said it is a civil case and that he committed no crime that the government can go after him for. We cannot bring criminal charges against him only the government can do that.
We can sue him in civil court which would cost us thousands with no guarantee that he would pay the judgement anyways.
The system is in the favor of those that commit these obvious criminal acts but leave the victims to fend for themselves.
(0)
Report
What a nightmare!

Force her out. This is a criminal matter.

Then carry on with your wishes such as selling the home, etc.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

I 100% agree with Notgoodenough that criminal charges should be pursued or leveraged.

Also, why can't the new owners of the home move in? If criminal daughter doesn't own the home, and there's no written lease agreement, what's to prevent the new owners from moving in and making her stay there very uncomfortable while fixing up the place and waiting for a court date? This may be a question for an attorney as I'm sure laws on this differ from state to state. If they did move in they'd need to lock up everything of value, especially their IDs.

This woman will go on to victimize others eventually. She needs to feel the full impact of her choices and have a very clear deterrent to reoffending. If there is no justice this sore will continue to fester in the family forever. If you prosecuted her and she were convicted and got some sort of probation but then KNEW that if she reoffended she'd be a full-on felon and THEN go to jail, she might change her trajectory or maybe just prevent someone else from becoming her next victim.
Helpful Answer (13)
Report
notgoodenough Apr 2021
That's actually a diabolically clever idea -move in anyway! I'm not sure if *I * would be able to actually follow -I can't even imagine how uncomfortable it would likely be - but it might be worth it to consider. I think so long as they don't constructively try to evict her - ie: throw her stuff out, lock her out of the bathroom, etc. - and she's neither on the deed and doesn't have a lease, I don't know why the legal owners wouldn't be able to get access into the home. Maybe start to get rid of the dad's stuff in order to get the house ready for sale!
(5)
Report
See 1 more reply
I think it's incredibly foolish to not pursue legal charges.

She won't necessarily end up incarcerated. Often, in cases such as this, instead of jail, the person is offered a period of probation, and is ordered to make restitution; she will also probably be ordered to go to Gamblers' Anonymous (or some such program), which may or may not help her in the long run. Even if she never has the the ability to pay back in full, the courts can garnish any future earnings she makes to at least give something back to the estate.

I would also think leveling charges will make getting her out of the house much, much easier. Remember, the moratorium against evictions is for non-payment of rent; I believe the courts are (virtually) starting to hear other eviction cases that aren't due to non-payment - as is the case here (owners of the home wanting to sell the property).

That she has behaved in such a manner that "she will become homeless" - as harsh as this may sound, it is on her that she has burned her bridges with her behavior; if her family allow this to continue, they might all end up in serious financial distress, and then they may all find themselves in that situation.

Tell them to call the police and start the process. If she abused her position as POA and stole from the estate, she should be held accountable.
Helpful Answer (18)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter