I have POA over a friend who is in a nursing home. The owner facility will not let me speak with her. Any advice?

Johnny please don't take our comments to heart for the most part we are trying to understand the rationales behind actions. It is quite likely that the ombudsman needs to see the documents - in the UK they would have to be apostilled too (authenticated via a legal buff). If you consider what they are saying they have a duty of care to all concerned. That means that before they can act they MUST KNOW beyond all reasonable doubt that a POA is in place AND THAT IT IS THE CURRENT ONE - that's important. I know you feel they have not listened/have been rude/disrespected you but you do need to act and I would encourage you to act in your friends best interest and send the POA. This on is about you helping her/him and that is exactly what a POA is in place for...acting on their behalf and in their best interests.
I think what perhaps has not been explained well is that there is a process they HAVE to go through. Suppose (just bear with me on this) just suppose I SAID I was this persons POA and that I had visited and they wouldn't let me see her. I might NOT be who I say I am and I might not have her best interests at heart so if the Ombudsman acted in my favour they could actually be putting the person at risk.

Now just suppose the care home is not acting in her best interests (and I suspect you believe this to be the case) then as her POA you NEED the Ombudsman to step in and investigate.

There is a third potential which I haven't seen mentioned ...she may have done a further POA which supersedes the previous one and doesn't want to tell you she has done it (for whatever reason - she actually doesn't have to have a reason fro creating a new POA in the UK and I don't think you have to be told either which is odd)

Now if that is the case and you suspect coercion of some sort then you may have to go through APS but you will still have to send a copy of your POA and as I said before it is unlikely that, even if you zip it that it can be sent.. it will, in all likelihood be either too big or against their protocols to receive.

But get to the bottom of it please. I can't bear to think that there is any malpractice going on and that nothing was done. It is never right to let someone else do it for they may not and then nothing gets done so act ....please xx

The reason you couldn't send the POA by email is probably because it was either too large for you to send by email or too large for the receiver to receive by email. Many many organisations dont accept pictures - purely because they may contain viruses and while I am sure that wont be the case with you they cannot risk compromising their systems. So not a sign from God more likely a sign from Bill Gates!. Secure post it - it's the safest way other than physically taking it

So you couldn't get the POA sent via email after several attempts and saw it as a sign from God? Maybe it is a sign He wants you to stay away from her?
They still sell stamps and you can send it via snail mail, you know. Or maybe certified mail would be better!

I suspect that the friend in the care home becomes upset and/or agitated when this visitor comes to see her and thus the owner felt obliged to ask him not to visit any longer. Having been given POA by the resident however, the writer has the right to see his friend, but the Ombudsman, having received a complaint about the writer, needs to see the POA to ascertain its validity. The writer is not comprehending the fact that he is skating on this ice with all concerned. I hope he sees the light. Yes, God is sending you a message. Sometimes strangers giving you good advice can be seen as agents of the Lord. Send the Ombudsman the POA.

Who are complaining to about the Ombudsman? I am agog to hear how that goes. Good luck!

I will have no more personal dealings with the Ombudsman Program in my city. I have always learned in my experiences. No matter what, the customer is always right, and you treat him or her as such. There are certain guidelines that are taken when you work direct or indirectly with the public. Always be respectful no matter what took place. I am also currently filing a complaint against the local Ombudsman Program, and my treatment by her. Moreover, I don' t know where or how you were raised, but in my up bringing. there is no excuse for bad behavior. Always act your best, even if it hurts you. I have worked many jobs dealing with bad customers, but I always put on a happy face. I never hung up on someone because I did not like their attitude on the phone with me, or whatever the reason. I still was a yes maam, or no sir type of person. So as a person whose making the complaint, and your suggestion for me to go ack to the agency to kiss their behinds? My answer to that is, slavery days have been outlawed for many a years, so that will not be happening, but thank you once again for your input, next person

As stated in my write up. I made the decision to withdraw my decision to forward a copy of my DPOA for two three reason as I stated briefly above. When I made four failed attempts of sending a copy of the DPOA with the emails given. I realized in my mind, that the reason these failed attempts were not working, because it must have been a message from God not too, or better yet, an intuition. Once realizing my decision to change my mind in not sending the documents, I made a call to the agency, left my message on their answering machine that I decided to not send the documents. Again, as repeated above. I also confirmed about in my decision in not sending the documents, that regardless if the Ombudsman program had the documents, really had no baring concerning my friend civil rights being violated with her not being able to have me visit her, nor me in seeing her. It was also confirmed in my decision on not sending a copy of the DPOA, that the real reason This Particular Ombudsman Program wanted to have a copy of the papers, were for two reasons. First, to see if the documents were authentic, second, If my friend who is at the facility, was not able to sign papers, that would authorize the investigation to take place by the Ombudsman Program. These are the rules based on the Hippo Law, and some privacy issues. Again, some of my other experiences are listed above, concerning the agency. Thank you once again. I refuse to keep responding to questions, I stated prior in my write up.

person not first ^ d*mned autocorrect

As someone who is not the most patient of people (really? no %^&* Sherlock I hear some of you say!) I have to agree with others on this point. You didnt handle the one organisation that could have helped you very well and it is time to go eat humble pie I am afraid. Now I appreciate that isn't going to sit well with you but you can bet your last cent that the care home owner will have been as sweet as can be and if you are in the right and the first for whom you are POA DOES want to see you then the ombudsman would have to act in your favour I think.

It is a difficult one and will result in he said she said type of argument if you dont have the ombudsman on your side - so go and be nice to them x

And offer the Ombudsman the eye witness testimonies of your friends.

Remember, you can draw more flies with honey than with vinegar. When dealing with people, do your darn best to be polite. Know when emotions are good vs. being neutral and matter-of-fact. Even if it means smiling while gritting your teeth.

You said you tried and failed to send the document, several times. What was the nature of the failure?

You said you realised that you didn't have to send the Ombudsman a copy of your DPOA to claim your right to see your friend for whom you hold it, and that is why you decided not to do it. Legally true. But tactically a poor move - particularly after you had already told the Ombudsman's office that you agreed to do so. I repeat: your mistake. Do you want to win this argument or don't you? If you do, go back to the Ombudsman and apologise.

Thank you much for your advice. However, your asking me the very same questions, which I have answered in this recent listing. I know from what I have written this time it is pretty long, but I answered your concerns. If you could try reading it again, you will find my answers. Thank you, for your time in reading, and commenting on which I have written. Keep Coming Back.

Ok. One, what exactly was the difficulty with sending the DPOA to the Ombudsman's office? And two, more importantly, what on earth possessed you to stand on principle in that impractical way and, having gone along with the involvement of the ombudsman at first, have a change of heart that alienated the very people who would be able to help you?

Your mistake, I'm afraid. Before you spend money on a lawyer, wrap up a copy of your DPOA in pretty paper, tie a red ribbon round it, and take it personally round to the Ombudsman's office ready to offer them a full and frank apology for having jerked them around.

I thank you all for your suggestions. I knew there was a reason I love this web site. However, I recognize that I may not have made myself very clear. So please allow me to explain again. I have gone on two separate occasions recently with two different friends as witnesses. Those two separate times, we were able to see my friend for a brief time, before the owner and or workers noticed in person that I was there. I was asked to leave, and or the facility would be forced to call the police. My friend blurted out to the owner and workers. "I have every right to have my friends here to visit me" I told her to not get herself to upset, I will be back. My friends were upset for me, and in shock that we were asked to leave, first because the doctor does not like me, that was his reasoning, and the other time it was am employee, who was told, that if I came into the property, I had to leave. At this time, I gave the worker my DPOA, she made copies of it, and I was able to meet with my friend. My friend, told me and my friend, that she has been threaten by the facility, that if she makes trouble for him, she has to leave. She really likes being there, because she has a little boy friend there, and she is really happy for that. So just two days ago after the facility had a copy of the DPOA, I ran into the owner of the facility. I was polite, and asked to see my friend. He stated that "he was informed to not allow me to see my friend, from a person at the Ombudsman agency. I was confused of this, because just three weeks ago as I was refused the first time, I called the Ombudsman person to inform them to first start another investigation, and why I was doing that. And she stated verbally on the phone to me, that your friend has every right to have someone to come in to see her, and she would call the facility to state that, so I was relieved that this was a start to a possible positive outcome, but trying to go back these two times, it appeared that the Ombudsman person had not informed the facility, or the owner just chose to not adhere to the request by the Ombudsman. So when I went this last time, the owner of the facility stated that he was told by the Ombudsman to not allow me into the facility to visit with my friend. So I asked the owner to please call the ombudsman facility so we could resolve this issue about my being allowed to visit. As he was dialing the Ombudsman, I blurted out, the reason I'm here becomes I would like to take my friend out to lunch, and or just stay for a visit. When the owner connected with the Ombudsman's answering machine, he stated. " Ms. Lee this is Johnny and Mr. Yaeger is here to take Ms. Shorty out for lunch, and you told me, that he would not be allowed to do that. I don't know what to do, please call me back" I was shocked
just how he lied, but I recognized that he did lied two times before, when two of my other friends came with me in the past. I walked out, and told him, eventually this will be resolved, one way or another. Oh I neglected to tell you all that I recorded the conversation without his permission so legally I would not be able to use it. However when I arrived home, I listen to the recording, and heard him say without any confusion, " The lady from the Ombudsman Program told me, that you are not allowed to see your friend, because you were told by her to send a copy of the DPOA, and because you did not, you are not allowed to see your friend" Part of this is true, but not much of anything else. When I spoke with the Ombudsman person to file a investigation, my main concern in filing was because my friends rights of being able to have visits from me, were being violated, but I would send her a copy of the DPOA. well, I made several attempts to send the document, but my attempts were not successful, but during my failed attempts I started thinking to myself, 'Yaeger, these are two different situations here. You don't have to send a copy of your DPOA for you to visit your friend, and or for her being allowed to visit with you." So that registered with me, I changed my mind in sending the documents to here, So I called the agency to state That I had changed my mind, and why. When I called the Ombudsman Program, I was speaking with the woman that I made the investigation too. Nonetheless, I called and the woman before I could tell her about my decision in not sending the power of attorney. "She stated she had spoke with the owner of the facility, and his story was completely different than mine" "Would I go over with her again my story" She seemed cold, and almost as if I was being interrogated, and or lying about my story" I basically was kind of numb, I was trying to take in what I was feeling at this moment, so I said to her. I don't feel comfortable with going over with you again my story. She than proceeded with the same nasty tone. "Mr. yaeger, I told you four different times to fax me a copy of the DPOA, and you have not. I will be closing out this case." HaNG UP. I was actually shocked that she literally hung up on me, and still am. Nevertheless, Life goes on, I currently have contacted two other organizations for them to investigate, and have asked my lawyer to assist in this matter.

What reason does the facility's owner give for preventing you from contacting the person FOR whom - not "over" whom - you have POA?

Under what circumstances might a nursing home forbid a POA from seeing a resident, I ask myself. If the POA the person holds is FINANCIAL, I'd say the medical POA could issue such an edict if you are a disruptive influence in the resident's life.

If there is a temporary or permanent restraining order is place, the administration would be within their rights. If the NH is ordering you off of their property because you are a constant disruptive presence, they're probably within their rights. If the resident doesn't WANT to see you, they can do that. (Regardless of what you THINK, she may NOT want to see you.)

Unless the NH administration is psychotic, there is a reason for this beyond what you've written here. Share it so we can help you.

Have you notified APS?

The rights of the elder are being abused in terms of ISOLATION. You would need to check on your state's civil law as i am a Brit but Ca law states this:

Civil law defines civil elder abuse to mean physical abuse, neglect, financial abuse, abandonment, ISOLATION, abduction, or other treatment resulting in physical harm or pain or mental suffering. It also means the deprivation by a care custodian of goods or services that are necessary to avoid physical harm or mental suffering. (Welfare & Institutions Code Section 15610.07)

Abandonment: The desertion of an elder by someone who is a caregiver.
Abduction: The removal, without the consent of the conservator, of a conservatee to another state.
Financial Abuse: The illegal or unethical exploitation and/or use of an elder’s funds, property, or other assets.
ISOLATION: The intentional preventing of an elder from receiving mail, telephone calls or VISITORS.
Mental Suffering: The infliction of fear, agitation, confusion through threats, harassment or other forms of intimidating behavior.
Neglect: The failure to fulfill a caretaking obligation such as assisting in personal hygiene, providing food, clothing or shelter, protecting a person from health and safety hazards, or preventing malnutrition.
Physical Abuse:The infliction of physical pain or injury, sexual assault or molestation, or use of physical or chemical restraints for punishment without, or beyond, the scope of a doctor's order.