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Dh comes home from his bi-monthly visit with his mom and goes to bed. He often doesn't get back up again for 2 days. Not unusual for him, to be honest. She's beyond draining. Poor guy, he still hasn't figured her out and he's 70 years old!
He's doing better. He used to try to talk to her, to help her, but gave up when he realized she is 'happy' complaining nonstop about EVERYTHING. Esp her Lesbian neighbors, and the 'rotten kids' who live a few houses down. Oh, and how much she hates ME. She's got a full plate of hate.
Mental exhaustion completely explains it. He's frustrated, knows he cant change her, feels obligated to still be involved with but would really like to walk away. I'm sure this is just my dysfunction talking but it makes perfect sense to me!
"It’s depression and anxiety. He’s being treated for both. They both know this and they still do this. I don’t understand why he puts up with it. They are both very controlling".
I'd guess the Mother & sibling are 1. also very enmeshed & 2. also have anxiety disorders.
That 'controlling' behaviour would be the way they manage their own anxiety. They would have zero insight this is harmful to others & do not know any other way to be. I know 2 people with OCD & this is similar. Not the washing hands all day type, but highly anxious with 'worries' & a need to control every part of their environment - including all the people in it. It's truly exhausting to be around.
Your poor DH is probably therapied out.. but I would read up on OCD & maybe consider looking for a therapist who specialises in OCD CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy). It was recommended to me, not just for the 'patient' but for the caregivers involved.
You know Mom & Sib won't have anything wrong with THEM!! So it would be for DH & even you to a acompany him if that suited. To learn some tactics to use for self-protection.
In some cases though, physically removing yourself (as you have done) is needed.
I really want to send you both on a cruise somewhere for a month! With no phone reception!!
I think dear MIL needs to be sat down, looked in the eye, and told she is killing her son with her selfish demands per his doctors. And if he dies or gets incapacitated in any way, you will not be involved in her caring? You will be caring for your DH and will have no time for her.
Have you ever had a person like this in your life JoAnn? If she were to be told she was 'killing her son with her selfish demands' SHE would be The Injured Party and feel insulted that such a thing was even SUGGESTED. That she was in no way at fault and did nothing of the sort, ever in her life. It was all fabricated by the OP and the son. She would then make his life even WORSE than it already is b/c he had The Nerve to even suggest she did Something Wrong. A mother like this is to be Worshipped and Bowed Down To At All Times. Like my mother pounded into my head my whole life, "If your mother is a thief or a whore, you NEVER speak badly of her and you ALWAYS say & think that she is Perfect." That is the drill with women like this. Sad but true
Based on all the things you've said in your discussion post about your MIL and your DH's response to her behavior, he sounds depressed & anxiety ridden. Sleeping a lot is a response to that.
There is nothing 'normal' about the relationship between your DH & his mother. These kinds of dysfunctional relationships sap the energy from those of us unfortunate enough to be enmeshed in them. I call these people Energy Vampires. They suck the energy right OUT of us. So yeah, we're exhausted after a visit. Plum worn out. I felt that way myself quite often after a particularly gruesome visit with my late mother who sucked the energy right out of my body.
In your other post you mentioned that you've stopped going with your DH to visit his mother. Now he's all alone to deal with the toxic waste she's delivering, which is probably making him even MORE exhausted than normal. One rule I had that I NEVER broke with regard to visiting my mother: I NEVER went to see her alone. Why? B/c her behavior was 1000x worse when she had me alone. When I took my DH with me or someone else, she was on much better behavior so others didn't see her ugly side come out. She kept the Mask in place much more so when others were around so they didn't see her slip show.
I suggest you advise your DH to bring someone with him when he goes to visit his mother. To NEVER go alone again. It's too taxing, too exhausting, and too dangerous to do so. Especially now that you're saying he spends the whole next day sleeping after a visit to see her. If he insists on going, bring someone WITH HIM. If not you, someone else.
Grandma1954's suggestion of using the CaringBridge site to update others is a great one. All the family members can log on to IT to find out how the old lady is doing. DH should consider going to see her once in a while, posting an update to CaringBridge, and sending invites to all friends and family members to check that SITE vs. texting him or calling him for updates. Done & done. MIL is living in an expensive managed care residence which means she's getting all the care she needs. Nothing more 'needs' to be done for her, in other words. Visits are discretionary in nature and not a 'life or death' situation! DH should keep that in mind since they are so taxing on him. His life matters too, not just his mother's.
Yah, I must be going mad - I can't find it either!
I thought I'd read after a day with Mom, the sibling calls for a blow by blow description. So not just the controlling anxious Mom but an enmeshed controlling anxious sibling too.
I usually agree with Burnt, but this time I may not. I feel this may be normal IF he is OK thereafter. ecially if the visits are stressful for him you might think of this as a sort of Post Traumatic Stress response lite. It is a way for the body to take a huge long sigh. Have you two spoken about it? If he is able to speak about his feelings he might not need this so much. My partner's Mom was a major narcissist.He loathed the yearly visits to her. Once decades ago I said "Can't you just relax and not bicker with her and it is over in a week?" and on that particularly visit not one bicker. So we are getting in the car to leave and I am thinking this went to well and my advice so spot on, and he says to me "Oh, my God! I think I am going to have to vomit". His anxiety was so bad, unbeknownst to me, that he was nauseated.
Thank you for your reply to my question. Yes, his Mother is a hand full (always has been) It’s anxiety and depression. His doctor, counselor says that it’s not healthy for him to manage his Mother’s health care. She is a very narcissistic wealthy woman, top notch care though NOTHING is ever good enough. It’s hard watching him go through this. It’s so selfish that she does this to her own son.
It is not normal for your husband to be so exhausted that he sleeps the entire next day. That is depression. That is despondency. I have had both. I know what being around my mother can do to me for sometimes days at a time. She was able to literally make me sick. I think your MIL does the same to your husband. He MUST establish some very strong boundaries with her. Then define exactly where he draws the line on how much he can and will tolerate from his mother and how much he won't. Seeking out some mental health care is something he should also consider. No shame in that game. Good mental health is as important as good physical health. It is up to him to lay the ground rules of what their relationship is going to be. It is for him to decide how many phone calls from her he takes and when he takes them. Or how many visits a week there will be, if there will be any. His mother can't be in charge of their relationship because she abuses it. My mother has always been very needy, manipulative, narcissistic, abusive, and has had undiagnosed, untreated mental illness her entire life. I have been her emotional dumping ground, family scapegoat, and caregiver for most of my life. One day I was going out of town for a few days. It was for my friend's wedding. While I was literally putting my luggage in the car my mother started working herself up into a panic attack. Hyperventilating and grabbing her chest like she was having a heart attack. Now mind I had seen this performance many times. The show only went on when it was special ocassion or if she thought she wasn't getting enough attention. She likes to ruin things. Some people do. My offer was that I'd call my sister and an ambulance. She wanted me to take her to the ER because this would result in me missing my flight and the wedding which is what she wanted. I got in the car and left anyway. I learned to stop playing her games. I also learned how to ignore with love and to accept her as she is. I will be moved back with my ex-husband and she is not coming with us. This upsets her greatly, but I'm not willing to live with her anymore. BOUNDARIES. They are a good thing. Your husband needs to make some with his mother and everyone's life will improve.
Thank you for your reply! This site is a life saver. I feel like I am going to lose my mind at times!
Oh my gosh my MIL does this as well! She’ll come up with some health crisis when we go on a vacation…I expect it now. Every 3 months or so she is in the ER for something. This last episode was my limit. I too have learned to stop playing her games. Boundaries! When I don’t visit for awhile she starts asking my husband if we are “ok”! Unfortunately my husband I think is enmeshed.
Mine was sleeping lots and lots. Finally got him to go to a Dr. to discuss it. Full physical, blood draw, which was overdue anyway. It was depression. Dr. started him on some generic prozac, he's awake way more, he thinks, talks, does things on his own, and is so much happier. I had to talk to him about it in "baby steps", it's a tough subject. His Mother had depression all her life and it always embarrassed him for some reason, he didn't want people to think he was "like that" because she was. So it was tough to get him to go to the Dr. but a good old fashioned once over isn't a bad idea if he's not been seen in a while. Good luck, hang in there!
I read once when people are overly emotionally involved, enmeshed, after spending time in their sphere it can be like an emotional hangover afterwards. I think the oversleeping could be his way to recover & recoup his energy. It also sounds very much like depression. Like he is stuck in the bog. Does not know there are steps to get out. Very sad.
People act according to their values. I wonder why he thinks his Mother & sibling have rights over so much of his life?
It is so sad. He has just that a complete emotional hangover after a visit. It’s depression and anxiety. He’s being treated for both. They both know this and they still do this. I don’t understand why he puts up with it. They are both very controlling.
Sleeping a lot can be a sign of depression and he should talk to his doctor about it. There is a "service" that might help. Caring Bridge. It is a site where friends and family can go to get updates on how a loved one is doing. And wonder of all wonders in this day and age it is FREE. This way he can post information and not be bothered by replying to all the texts. And, although I do not need to tell you this but he needs to limit the hours each week that he "helps" mom. If she can not function on her own then she should not be living alone. If she is not living alone then he should not have to be spending the amount of time he is with her. Shopping can be done on line and delivery is available. MIL can pay for caregivers to help with some of the things he is doing. If he is doing work around the house that can also be paid for out of moms assets. It might be possible that when siblings get wind of the money that mom is paying for some of these chores and errands they might help out a bit more if they think this will reduce any inheritance they may get.
And...Have you talked to him about how you feel when he spends his time with mom, comes home exhausted and then sleeps? What does he say?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
He's doing better. He used to try to talk to her, to help her, but gave up when he realized she is 'happy' complaining nonstop about EVERYTHING. Esp her Lesbian neighbors, and the 'rotten kids' who live a few houses down. Oh, and how much she hates ME. She's got a full plate of hate.
I'd guess the Mother & sibling are 1. also very enmeshed & 2. also have anxiety disorders.
That 'controlling' behaviour would be the way they manage their own anxiety. They would have zero insight this is harmful to others & do not know any other way to be. I know 2 people with OCD & this is similar. Not the washing hands all day type, but highly anxious with 'worries' & a need to control every part of their environment - including all the people in it. It's truly exhausting to be around.
Your poor DH is probably therapied out.. but I would read up on OCD & maybe consider looking for a therapist who specialises in OCD CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy). It was recommended to me, not just for the 'patient' but for the caregivers involved.
You know Mom & Sib won't have anything wrong with THEM!! So it would be for DH & even you to a acompany him if that suited. To learn some tactics to use for self-protection.
In some cases though, physically removing yourself (as you have done) is needed.
I really want to send you both on a cruise somewhere for a month! With no phone reception!!
There is nothing 'normal' about the relationship between your DH & his mother. These kinds of dysfunctional relationships sap the energy from those of us unfortunate enough to be enmeshed in them. I call these people Energy Vampires. They suck the energy right OUT of us. So yeah, we're exhausted after a visit. Plum worn out. I felt that way myself quite often after a particularly gruesome visit with my late mother who sucked the energy right out of my body.
In your other post you mentioned that you've stopped going with your DH to visit his mother. Now he's all alone to deal with the toxic waste she's delivering, which is probably making him even MORE exhausted than normal. One rule I had that I NEVER broke with regard to visiting my mother: I NEVER went to see her alone. Why? B/c her behavior was 1000x worse when she had me alone. When I took my DH with me or someone else, she was on much better behavior so others didn't see her ugly side come out. She kept the Mask in place much more so when others were around so they didn't see her slip show.
I suggest you advise your DH to bring someone with him when he goes to visit his mother. To NEVER go alone again. It's too taxing, too exhausting, and too dangerous to do so. Especially now that you're saying he spends the whole next day sleeping after a visit to see her. If he insists on going, bring someone WITH HIM. If not you, someone else.
Grandma1954's suggestion of using the CaringBridge site to update others is a great one. All the family members can log on to IT to find out how the old lady is doing. DH should consider going to see her once in a while, posting an update to CaringBridge, and sending invites to all friends and family members to check that SITE vs. texting him or calling him for updates. Done & done. MIL is living in an expensive managed care residence which means she's getting all the care she needs. Nothing more 'needs' to be done for her, in other words. Visits are discretionary in nature and not a 'life or death' situation! DH should keep that in mind since they are so taxing on him. His life matters too, not just his mother's.
Best of luck.
https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/practicing-healthy-boundaries-i-no-longer-go-with-husband-to-visit-his-elderly-mother-the-best-decis-475494.htm
I would say yes this a reason for concern. In the above post you mention how caring for his mother your husbands health is being effected.
PS, think I am missing something here. I went thru all tired posts and I see nothing about a sibling as Beatty mentioned.
I thought I'd read after a day with Mom, the sibling calls for a blow by blow description. So not just the controlling anxious Mom but an enmeshed controlling anxious sibling too.
I feel this may be normal IF he is OK thereafter.
ecially if the visits are stressful for him you might think of this as a sort of Post Traumatic Stress response lite. It is a way for the body to take a huge long sigh. Have you two spoken about it? If he is able to speak about his feelings he might not need this so much.
My partner's Mom was a major narcissist.He loathed the yearly visits to her. Once decades ago I said "Can't you just relax and not bicker with her and it is over in a week?" and on that particularly visit not one bicker. So we are getting in the car to leave and I am thinking this went to well and my advice so spot on, and he says to me "Oh, my God! I think I am going to have to vomit". His anxiety was so bad, unbeknownst to me, that he was nauseated.
It is not normal for your husband to be so exhausted that he sleeps the entire next day. That is depression. That is despondency.
I have had both. I know what being around my mother can do to me for sometimes days at a time. She was able to literally make me sick. I think your MIL does the same to your husband.
He MUST establish some very strong boundaries with her. Then define exactly where he draws the line on how much he can and will tolerate from his mother and how much he won't. Seeking out some mental health care is something he should also consider. No shame in that game. Good mental health is as important as good physical health.
It is up to him to lay the ground rules of what their relationship is going to be. It is for him to decide how many phone calls from her he takes and when he takes them. Or how many visits a week there will be, if there will be any.
His mother can't be in charge of their relationship because she abuses it.
My mother has always been very needy, manipulative, narcissistic, abusive, and has had undiagnosed, untreated mental illness her entire life.
I have been her emotional dumping ground, family scapegoat, and caregiver for most of my life.
One day I was going out of town for a few days. It was for my friend's wedding. While I was literally putting my luggage in the car my mother started working herself up into a panic attack. Hyperventilating and grabbing her chest like she was having a heart attack. Now mind I had seen this performance many times. The show only went on when it was special ocassion or if she thought she wasn't getting enough attention. She likes to ruin things. Some people do. My offer was that I'd call my sister and an ambulance. She wanted me to take her to the ER because this would result in me missing my flight and the wedding which is what she wanted.
I got in the car and left anyway.
I learned to stop playing her games. I also learned how to ignore with love and to accept her as she is. I will be moved back with my ex-husband and she is not coming with us. This upsets her greatly, but I'm not willing to live with her anymore.
BOUNDARIES. They are a good thing. Your husband needs to make some with his mother and everyone's life will improve.
Oh my gosh my MIL does this as well! She’ll come up with some health crisis when we go on a vacation…I expect it now. Every 3 months or so she is in the ER for something. This last episode was my limit. I too have learned to stop playing her games. Boundaries! When I don’t visit for awhile she starts asking my husband if we are “ok”! Unfortunately my husband I think is enmeshed.
People act according to their values. I wonder why he thinks his Mother & sibling have rights over so much of his life?
There is a "service" that might help.
Caring Bridge. It is a site where friends and family can go to get updates on how a loved one is doing. And wonder of all wonders in this day and age it is FREE.
This way he can post information and not be bothered by replying to all the texts.
And, although I do not need to tell you this but he needs to limit the hours each week that he "helps" mom.
If she can not function on her own then she should not be living alone.
If she is not living alone then he should not have to be spending the amount of time he is with her.
Shopping can be done on line and delivery is available.
MIL can pay for caregivers to help with some of the things he is doing.
If he is doing work around the house that can also be paid for out of moms assets.
It might be possible that when siblings get wind of the money that mom is paying for some of these chores and errands they might help out a bit more if they think this will reduce any inheritance they may get.
And...Have you talked to him about how you feel when he spends his time with mom, comes home exhausted and then sleeps? What does he say?