Follow
Share

So, short story:
91 year old Dad, Parkinson's, dementia (at least partially Alzheimers), depression, currently in assisted living, $10K left in his bank account, nearly-depleted $115K home equity loan, only income from Social Security
88 year old stepmom, cancer, aneurysm, living at home (which is in a trust in Dad's name, for which I am likely to become the trustee given his dementia)


First off, we do have an elder care attorney to handle the legal aspects.


I'm looking for a reality check and some ideas. The doctors think Dad will need memory care in 2-3mo, which will likely cost $5000+/month more than what's available (including his longterm care insurance). Our ideal scenario is her and Dad in the same community--her in independent living, him in memory care. She says she's not ready for 'senior living' and claims she won't be able to move out of the house by mid-October.


Is it realistic she needs nearly four months to relocate (less than 30min away)?
Is there something we can do to facilitate the move to make her more comfortable?
Should we start asking for rent? Her monthly income includes SS (hers and her husbands), pension (hers and her husbands), and revenue from a small apartment building left to her by her husband


I know we can't force her to move to a certain location, and, even though we think it would be better for Dad for them to be in the same community, maybe we can live with her moving to an apartment so we can monetize the house.


Thoughts?

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing

51 Answers

Most
Helpful Newest
First Oldest
First
1 2
Actually, it turns out the move-out--which is being driven by our need to fund Dad's care--is complicated. Turns out the place Stepmom found is a multilevel place, not really appropriate for someone in her physical condition. Apartments are few and far between in the area where Dad is.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
Adam, will your Step-mother be close enough so that she can visit your father? What changed her mind from staying in the family home?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
So, an update: Stepmom has found an apartment nearby and will be moving out in October.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
The summer is not over yet.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
I'm glad to hear your step-mom's children are with you on getting her to relocate. I suggest pulling a couple of other professionals in on the project of getting her to move in a timely manner. The services of a geriatric care social worker can be invaluable. Most are connected with hospitals, but there are many who are independent, and can work with your step-mom as a counselor to discuss financial, emotional and practical issues regarding a move. They can be paid through Medicare, as well, so that reduces the financial commitment. It may be easier for her to confide her true fears of moving to a third-party, who can even help her shop for the right place to live, or resolve her fears of moving in to her husband's assisted living facility.
The second professional to be consulted is a Senior Move Manager (my profession). Senior Move Managers assist with both the physical and emotional aspects of downsizing, coordinate all the myriad details involved with the transition, from address changes, utility notifications, downsizing, packing, organizing, liaison with the moving van lines and new destination management, space planning for the new location, estate liquidations, and right through to a complete unpack and setting everything in its place. Yes, adult children can do all these things to. But the emotional dynamic and time constraints between family members can be very sensitive and slow things down. When a professional move manager becomes your step-mom's partner, she will feel more in control of the decision making process and will have less reason to feel she is being forced to do something she doesn't want to do. Check the website of the National Association of Senior Move Managers (NASMM) at Nasmm.org to find a Senior Move Manager in your area. Best of luck!
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Thanks, adambravo. Good to hear from you, I was afraid we scared you off. It seems that if SM is not coming up with alternatives that would allow her to stay in the house, she's going to have to accept the solution you have come up with as your fathers quality of care is at stake - and it must be paid for somehow. Just kinda an odd approach to the resonpsibilies of marriage. But perhaps marrying at age 70 and now having cancer at age 88 she has a different view on her priorities. So now it's a matter of setting a date to have SM moved out by and dealing with all the stuff left over in the house - getting the house ready for market. It's a shame you'll miss the summer - hubby and I have been looking to buy something on the Oregon coast for a couple of years and we definately have noticed the pattern of the asking price for a house going up in late spring and back down in late fall - plus the volume of "sold"s in September. Anyhow- I guess now you focus on SMs date out, sticking to it and being ready with plans and ideas if things start to stall. I imagine stalling is a big risk with her health and all, hopefully her kids are easy to work with and you can get them to pick up any slack.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Thanks for all the feedback so far--and it certainly seems to be a divisive topic. An update and some clarification...
1. Stepmom now understands staying in the house through the winter is not workable. Still says she is not ready for assisted living, but seems ready to get an apartment when dad is 'placed'.
2. The rental property she owns is in California
3. Great advice on Senior Move Managers!
4. They have an antenuptial financial agreement; only thing shared was a checking account for home expenses. Dad has no other assets.
5. I do have signed legal POA and health care proxy docs for Massachusetts.
6. Stepmom has not offered up an option to the financial issues.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
What is the possibility of her moving into one of the apartments of her rental property and still getting an income from said property? That way the house could be sold for your dad's care. Was there a prenup agreement when they married? If so, the house is his and her apartment building is hers. Change is difficult for the elderly, but, this seems a logical solution whereas they both are cared for. Worth investigating on both sides of the families.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Jan123 - I agree, it doesn't make any sense how the SM is now so out of the loop responsibility and decision making wise. Isn't the spouse the first line of defense?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
I would like to suggest you contact NASMM and gain the help of a Senior Move Manager. We are specially trained in assisting with the downsizing and relocation process. A third party supporting you Step-Mom during the transition will help her to feel empowered and may ease the whole process for all of you
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
Joanne - I wasn't judging, just disagreeing. And, I'm gonna disagree here, not about how hard being a caregiver is, not about being non judgemental - and in theory- not about staying on topic and answering the question - it's the "just" in "just answer the question" - if that was how we all answered you wouldn't have done the post you just did about being a caregiver - which was kind, heartfelt and worthwhile. At least to me, in addition to getting a variety of answers to a question - it is the shared experience- the stories, the humor, the strong shoulder, all of it that makes this site so good. Even though we are all anonymous strangers it feels more like a group of friends - giving support. Personally, I'll take my support any way I can get it. Vive la difference!
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
actually if she is 88 and has been married to your father for 18 years that makes her 70 at the time of the marriage. wasn't there a prenuptial agreement? if she owns an apartment house from her ex husband and is entitled to his pension besides her pension and ss ? what did your father contribute? they may have an agreement somewhere for her protection. cancer is really expensive. this is confusing. does he have any assets other than the house? what did he expect to take care of him? he must have may a decision. I believe some pieces are missing. they need to be explored. I agree that elder attorney is needed remember she is entitled to her primary residence by law and it would be foolish to sell it because it would become your inheritance maybe you should consider her feelings more and allow her to adjust to this terrible change. keep love and God in mind and remember she took care of your father for the last 18 years,
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
I have found from taking care of Mom that I appreciate more what healthcare providers do. I see now what a caregiver deals with daily whether they physically take care of a loved one or they have placed them in a care facility. We all make the decisions we do for whatever reason. Some can't afford to take on full responsibility for a loved one. They must have options they may not want to make but have to. Today there have been a couple of postings where the person has asked for suggestions. They aren't asking to be judged. We all need to keep on topic and just answer the question.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
I agree but he needs care and the house is not hers. She maybe better off in an AL once he is gone since she has health problems. If she has children, maybe they should step up. Its a hard decision. Good Luck.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Seriously? Evict an 88 yr old woman who has cancer, who spent her 18 yr marriage with her husband in the house? Wow.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
I think u need a lawyer. You may have to evict her. Too much legallity here since she is married to ur Dad.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
In post script, I guess what I'm trying to point out based on my experience, it doesn't take months to move if you use the Senior Move companies.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
When we needed to move my dad to IL, we had the apartment floor plan and hired a Senior Move company. They specialize in downsizing. She came, walked through dad's home with him, got to know him, and then helped him choose things he wanted to take based on what would fit the space. She tagged these things. My sister and I went through his clothes with him ( the man had enough shoes and jeans for 10 people) and weeded out what would go. The company representative and staff come then on move day and packed everything going, they have movers who move it all there then it's unpacked, pictures hung etc., and the senior walks in that afternoon and their place is ready. It's a miracle in my book. Then the house was now ready for the estate sale people. In the meantime we hired the realtor who placed the house on the market after the estate sale. The estate sale people have a charity arranged to pick up what didn't sell and then they sweep the house clean. We hired a cleaning company to do a thorough clean. The house sold to the first person who saw it. All I can say is the process went smoothly using this method.
The Senior Move company, of which there may be several should be interviewed to find the person you think can relate to your SM. They are experts at downsizing. Do a web search to see who is in your area. But I agree that she needs to be out of the house to sell it, if at all possible.
To get her to move, it might be helpful to take her to look at apartments, visit with people who live there, have lunch with them, maybe attend at outing. They sometimes let people stay in a furnished apartment to get a feel for living there. Tell her it's a vacation so she can see her husband. The marketing people there can help you with al this. If she does this, you can have a realtor come and do a market analysis of the house. Just some suggestions.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
As your fathers wife of 18 years, is she not legally responsible for the cost of keeping your father in memory care? What is her solution for paying the bill? Obviously it would have been best for your dad if she had followed through and moved in with him - but now that your father is moving to memory care I believe that is a mute point and in the event of this new development would have been somewhat counter productive- if she had in fact moved in with him. I can not see - and frankly have never heard of a married couple living in the same room in memory care. So SM would have been in AL - where she did not want or necessarily need to be in the first place and your dad would still be moving into memory care. Was the beach house her primary residence for the 18 years of their marriage? If so, I can't fathom asking her to move out - it is her home. Paying rent on the home she shared with her husband also seems a bit unreasonable, in my opinion. Yet - if bills need to be paid it also follows that as his wife she may have to make decisions regarding how that's going to happen. Looking at it from SMs standpoint- she has lost her husband to dementia, she has cancer - of course she wants to remain in what I can only imagine- is a beautiful beach house, when she spent her married life and I imagine where she'd like to remain until the end of her life - wouldn't you feel the same? But back to the other hand - if there is no other money to pay for dads care - put the decision back into her court. "SM - I understand you want to remain in the beach house - what other options do YOU have for paying for YOUR husbands care"? Like I said - just seems to be an odd disconnect between his, hers, and theirs in this situation.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report
After 18 years, the wife certainly has both tenant rights and property rights. I say let her stay there.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
I see a lot of separation here - her kids and their mother, you and your dad, his house ,her assets. Have you all sat down with her and discussed her husband's increasing need for memory care and what are her thoughts on how it would be paid for? I can certainly see an 88 year old lady, with cancer, overwhelmed at the idea of having to pack up and move. As for her paying rent, this is your husband's wife of 18 years .... how would he want you to handle this?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
WannaBe, the stepmother has cancer. Evicting her under those circumstances is one of the most cruel acts I can imagine.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
Hello, Won't Medicaid agree to a lean against the property in exchange for services? Did they discuss a "spend down"? What did your attorney tell you about MA property laws? Medical and Durable POA's? I'm concerned about your knowledge base while having an attorney. If he has not reviewed these subjects with you, IMHO... fire him! That said...if there is a legal marriage in place she speaks for your father unless she legally assigns it to someone else. Don't assume anything. Make sure YOU SEE AND COPY the marriage certificate. This can be done online @ MA.gov homepg. It differs state to state. Put the copy in a binder. Put EVERYTHING in this binder. Trust me, it will pay off.
SM should live in home as long as she can afford to do so including the home equity payment, taxes, insurance, routine upkeep. You will not be perceived as heartless. A little patience.
Medicaid will allow the spouse to "keep" a certain amount of assets- Spousal Impoverence Act 197? They could also"force" you to sell the property since it's just his. You said you have POA. Do you have Durable, Medical or both? What triggers them LEGALLY? Do you need an MD or 2MD's to document that the triggers (cognitive impairment) is present and renders him incapable. If you have the Durable POA and there is nothing in written form stating she has the right to remain from your dad pay her a visit and give her an eviction notice. Tell her you're terribly sorry but this is life and this is your Father. No hard feelings. THEN LEAVE. Less is more. From observed experience over 30+ years...you pick...a confused old man or the beach. Send a copy to 1of her kids identified a spokesperson and put 1 copy in your binder after write down your conversation,date and time. You probably should use the sheriff or constable serve the notice but it's kind of cold. Have the sheriff serve her an eviction notice after you have if you think there's going to be a problem. Do you have a friend or family member who could live in the property during the notice period. Please understand, I realize this all sounds cold but think about it...if she was willing or able to do what your family has asked, she's impeding your ability to take care of your dad. Stay peaceful but firm. Write down a plan for your dad with your family. Then follow it. An y'all remember..fall together, not apart.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Since the house is in a trust, it is exempt from inclusion in Medicare discussion. Since it was their home together, she has a right to live there but moreover it is the right thing to do to leave her in the place she loves and that has been her home for so many years. There is much wealth in your family and it is an honor to care for our families as they age. Just as it was in your father's best interest to be placed in memory care, it is in your stepmother's best interest to age in place. Look to your family's other sources of wealth to solve this relatively short duration dilemma.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Careful, sendme - that's how I ended up in a month long exile!
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
Lets just talk about this one legal aspect. If Dad owns the house, any increase in equity becomes community property of the spouses and must be divided.

Was she cheated out of this asset by the "antenuptial agreement"?

It doesn't matter if she has more assets, does it? How is it that she will lose her home of 18 years?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
If the wife collects social security income on her former deceased husband's income, but is remarried for 18 years, isn't that illegal?

If a husband and wife live in a home as married for 18 years, it does not matter if one had to move out to get care, the remaining spouse should get to live there, no matter what the legal paperwork says, imo.

Who hired this attorney to draw up an antenuptial agreement for the benefit of just your father? Or, at least it looks that way.

Fraud alert? Or am I jumping to conclusions or over-reacting? Are they divorced?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
Ah ha! I know now why I feel so hesitant to weigh in on this - as I was writing my previous reply it started to gel. This situation reminds me of the one back in February- the one where I got my a$$ handed to me by pretty much everyone for having a strong but minority point of view. Long term SM living seperate from dad and dads kids running the show. If I remember right the SM in that one ended up living on her own in an IL apartment.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
There seems to be an odd dynamic at work here that makes this an unusual situation. Adam is POA for his dad - does that completely cut the wife out of any decision making? Typically in similar situations it would be the wifes responsiblity to make the decision as to what needs to be liquidated in order to pay for her husbands care. How is it that this seems to be treated as two separate sets of circumstances? As SM is still legally married to dad where is her responsibility in all this? I would expect to see what is being described here for a couple that may have been living together but not married - but there is an 18 year marriage here - than is a substantial amount of time.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
I am reading some things that don't appear to be above board, and are unclear.

But I will let you know this: I know a couple with over 45 years of marriage whose family separated them to care in their home for Dad. Mom went to a senior apartment and died alone of an asthma attack. Without care.

When you state assets and income (hers and her husband's), whose husband is your Dad? Or not? How long have they been married, or not? No need to explain to me.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
1 2
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.

Recent Questions


Popular Questions


Related Questions

Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter