So, short story:
91 year old Dad, Parkinson's, dementia (at least partially Alzheimers), depression, currently in assisted living, $10K left in his bank account, nearly-depleted $115K home equity loan, only income from Social Security
88 year old stepmom, cancer, aneurysm, living at home (which is in a trust in Dad's name, for which I am likely to become the trustee given his dementia)
First off, we do have an elder care attorney to handle the legal aspects.
I'm looking for a reality check and some ideas. The doctors think Dad will need memory care in 2-3mo, which will likely cost $5000+/month more than what's available (including his longterm care insurance). Our ideal scenario is her and Dad in the same community--her in independent living, him in memory care. She says she's not ready for 'senior living' and claims she won't be able to move out of the house by mid-October.
Is it realistic she needs nearly four months to relocate (less than 30min away)?
Is there something we can do to facilitate the move to make her more comfortable?
Should we start asking for rent? Her monthly income includes SS (hers and her husbands), pension (hers and her husbands), and revenue from a small apartment building left to her by her husband
I know we can't force her to move to a certain location, and, even though we think it would be better for Dad for them to be in the same community, maybe we can live with her moving to an apartment so we can monetize the house.
Thoughts?
With care costs looming, there will be lookbacks from Medicaid if that has to become a reality for one or both spouses. Selling anything should require an indebth evaluation by an attorney in favor of both spouses.
I am for keeping them together, in the same place, but then, what do I know? Or, second best, her at home, him in AL.
October is not that far off. Use the equity loan to pay for his care, but do not encumber the house more than 50%, imo. Allow her to stay there. Maybe she can encumber her other assets to be able to pay the house expenses herself. Including, bringing in care providers to her and your Dad's home. Does anyone feel an obligation to provide for his wife while she is living? Won't you benefit from the inheritance once she has passed? Can Dad visit his home and her while he is in memory care? Supervised maybe? These are just some questions to ask.
However, I advise to get her the in-home care now, don't wait.
Apparently some medical personnel or people with great amounts of empathy can become subject to this, and it could become compulsive if not psychologically addicting and damaging.
It's been awhile since I researched it, but if I recall correctly there's a higher level of oxytocin in these folks. I did some quick research again but didn't find articles specifically addressing this in caregiving, so perhaps the research a decade ago has shifted to other areas affected by this chemical.
But I do specifically mentally gasping as I read those earlier articles and discovering the relationship between caregiving and almost compulsive caregiving.
GardenArtist: Cancer appears to be slowly spreading, but if you'd met her you'd think she was a healthy, lively 88. Her daughter says she has 'caregivers' syndrome', where she feels obligated to do whatever she can for Dad (short of actually living him, obviously)--and, so, yes, I think she is probably exhausted. Yes, she could sell the apartment building--haven't brought it up, as it's her choice. She could live with one of the kids, I suppose, but not sure if either she or they are up for that.
PamStegma: Medicaid not a option yet; the house is worth too much, and it won't pay for assisted living.
Here is an idea. It sounds as if she has at some point agreed to move on. If she is elderly and fighting cancer, just the thought of sorting through things, packing and them moving is probably just horrible and seems impossible. The idea to have family come in and attack a room at a time is brilliant.
Back to the thought I wanted to share from a real estate standpoint...If is is a beach house, this is the prime time to show it. Since you all probably agree, it will take awhile to move on, sell it with the provision for a 2, 4 or 6 month leaseback. Talk to your broker...could be win-win, she gets time to move out, a sale can go through, new owners have the winter to remodel, move in, etc.
I'm assuming that one or more of your stepmother's children hold proxies to manage her affairs? If so, would they be willing to free up some assets to pay for your father's care, with the caveat that she would be reimbursed on sale of your father's house?
It might actually be a bargaining chip.
1. Without being blunt, what is the stage of your stepmother's cancer? Is she in chemo or radiation now? Even without knowing that information, someone living with cancer is facing a tremendous challenge in terms of contemplating her own future. Consideration of moving could be more than she could handle, let alone the move itself.
2. The flip side of the issue is that she might actually be more comfortable living with your father, but there's always that issue of his dementia, which could really challenge her ability to adjust to living somewhere else, and once again feeling the responsibility to care for him even if they are in separate units (and I question the value of that).
3. And while I would hope this isn't the situation, she may be exhausted from the turmoil she and your father have gone through and just want some peace now that she's living alone. As I recall, she was working hard to care for your father and the house despite the fact that she was battling cancer. She may just need this time for a respite.
4. I think the delay in moving is her way of putting off dealing with the issue; it just may be more than she can contemplate at this time. I certainly can understand and attest to the fact that this kind of delay in planning exists, whether dementia, cancer or even old age are present.
And there have been a LOT of changes in your parents' lives.
5. I definitely wouldn't ask for rent. I think that would make her feel rejected from the family and considered more of a renter than a stepmother.
6. Could the building left by her husband be sold and the funds used for your father's care? Or is that not an option under the antenuptial agreement?
7. I wouldn't be comfortable with showing the house while she's living there, even though it might be the best move financially and market wise. I think it will make her feel pushed, pressured, perhaps unwanted by your side of the family. I recognize the need, but I think her feelings are more important. I would try to make her a part of any changes so she doesn't feel left out or as if the family is making plans about her life w/o her input.
8. Is there a possibility she could live with one of her adult children? I know that this isn't going to be a popular suggestion but I get the impression your family has cordial relations and works together for a solution, that you're all professionals and working together for a solution, and that may be one to keep her with family until the house is sold and funds are available for your father's longer term care.
9. As to encouraging her to adapt to the concept of moving, perhaps her own children could visit once a week or so, with the goal of working on one room, or one aspect, slowly and leisurely packing while combining casual conversation. Begin or end the day with lunch or dinner - make it a social as well as a working event.
I would never let her pack alone though; it will be too traumatic and sad. She needs companionship to do this.
10. If it's not realistic to dispose of some things, either pack them for storage at her children's homes or rent a storage unit. That way she knows they're still available for her. And in time she may gradually forget what's there. I did when we did that after my sister died. I'm still surprised at what I kept.
11. If it's feasible, perhaps she could even spend a weekend, then a week or two, with one of her children to begin the moving and leaving her home acclimation process.
This is really a tough decision; please give yourself and your family enough time to work it out so that you don't feel pressured or regret any decisions.
Her cancer... is she thinking that she might die before she has to leave, do you think? Is that in a way what she hopes will happen?
This is incredibly hard. Does she have any support team that you can ask for help with discussions? - care manager, counsellor, therapist, anyone?
My parents wanted to sell their home decades ago, and retire elsewhere. The Realtor had a lot of patience, a whole lot, as he wanted to put a sign in the yard.... nope.... he wanted to put a lockbox with the house key on the front door.... a huge nope.... he wanted to hold open houses.... another huge nope. My Mom didn't want anyone snooping around her house.... and heaven forbid if a Buyer wanted to see the house when my Mom was cooking lunch or dinner... but my parents wanted the house sold quickly..... [rolling eyes]. Once my parents moved out to their new home, the house did sell.
What are you going to do with your stepmom when the realtor needs to show the house? Stepmom must vacate so as to give potential buyers the freedom to look around. The house won't sell if it's too difficult to show it. The realtor knows that and they will put their energies toward a house that's easier to show.
I'm glad you do have the Elder Attorney already. I would not have the faintest clue to give you.
I do know that you have come to the best site, where MANY have been through a whole lot of legal/emotional/stuff and definitely willing to comment and express support.
If anything, and as you go down this part of the journey, you're welcome to vent, ask,comment, ramble on, whatever the case may be.
We're all doing the best we can, within our means, and remember to take good care of yourself, while you deal with the issues.
Keep posting. More and better help is on the way!
M 8 8
Angel
Houses sell faster when they are either empty or staged.
Her children must help her downsize one room at a time. Old people who are attached to their stuff are never going to change. She will never get it done herself.
When my inlaws were moving to indy living they stalled something fierce. They took much too much stuff with them to their new apartment, which they have cluttered up with new stuff, but that's none of my business.
1. Married 18 years. Known each other for decades, she was a friend of my mother when they were younger.
2. Yes, she has three kids, and they are in on the discussion. Her son feels it is unsafe for her to be alone in the house during the winter (it's in Massachusetts).
3. Yes, there is an antenuptial agreement to keep their assets separate.
4. Medicaid not an option as it won't pay for assisted living at the house is, I believe, over the limit at about $1M (it's a nice beach house).
5. I should point out that the original plan, when Dad moved into assisted living in March, she was going to join him in a few months, at least by end of summer. Then, about two months in, she decided she wasn't moving. Now, her daughter is suggesting we let her stay until the house is sold, which would give her two months' notice--even though she now says she needs six months to move.
6. Good idea to get her thoughts on how to manage the expenses.
7. Yes, she's been good to him--except for reneging on her plan to live with/near him (which has led to his delusions that she is having an affair, which has threatened their relationship more on top of everything else).
If the home is only in your father's name, legally it is his to do with as he pleases. I would suggest that if they have been married for some time, and she has generally been a pleasant person that was good to him, I would allow her the extra time to move. Moving can be very difficult for the elderly, and if she's been generally good for dad's life there is no harm in letting her stay a bit longer than you would like...to keep the peace and not cause any legal actions her family may have.
But as Mincemeat suggests, the fact that they are married could have legal implications...including taking into account all the assets in bank accounts that they hold together and any investments. You will need to know about all of these in case you ever have to apply for Medicaid...as she will be the community spouse.
I would hope that her family will have plans for her already and will be moving forward with those plans using her assets.
Angel
I was able to move my Dad into assisted living as he wasn't fussy about what furniture to take, but he wanted all his books. So I asked him to start thinning them out. The standard joke around his house was Dad went through 200 books and kept 199. He even wanted an old set of encyclopedias from the 1930's, and another set from the 1960's. So we moved them to his new place. Now, if my Mom was still alive, there would have been no move at all.
Yes, try to keep your Step-Mom and your Dad in the same community. As for charging your Step-Mom rent, I wouldn't do that. But try to explain to Step-Mom that it is going to be expensive for her husband to live in memory-care, what would she suggest to help with the cost. Let it be her idea.