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Dad and Mom always treated me and my brother equally. I am one year older. We are co-POAs, and it is stipulated we must agree on everything. Unfortunately, we don't agree on practically anything! Politics is a screaming match. We have totally opposite views. (although that doesn't have much to do with Mom.) She will be 95 in July. She still lives in the house where we grew up. She is a hoarder of things...not garbage, very organized, lots of stuff in marked boxes, etc. When the time comes, I want to have an Estate Sale professionally handled, then sell the house. He wants to try to sell off the collections of stuff, then put a couple hundred thousand into the renovation of the house, then try to sell afterward. I don't think we would get much out of the time and money invested, and the area has had several buyers in the area come in and just raze the houses and rebuild their own house creations on the land. I hate to consider this, but I have an awful feeling I may end up with an attorney..... Anyone's thoughts???

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"When the time comes"? What exactly does that mean?

What level of care does mom need right now? Does she have the funds to pay for it?

Unless you are generationally wealthy, your mom will end up on Medicaid and the house will be spoken for (either because you sold it to pay for her care or because you had to move her because she needed a higher level of care) and the house in lined by Medicaid.

You will both be shocked, I'm sure, to find that mom's collectors not bring big bucks.
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Assuming you mean your mothers death, what happens to your mothers house and things will be up to the executor of the will, acting of course within the stipulations and bequeaths of that will - POA ends with the death of the person.
Hopefully, you're not co-executors!
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I think both scenarios are reasonable as good ideas, because they sound like great ideas, right? But when it comes to taking care of the parent while the parent is still alive, the house can be sold also to ensure all accounts are consolidated so that the parent and the family have enough affairs in order, including the contents of the house. Estate sale auctions. People have a lot of items that should have been additionally insured, but never were or appraised, so the thinking is: hey, we can get more than $200 for that item, more like $1000 for that item, and then we can put that in an account as well as all the other items and build up the property value and estate and it makes financial sense, right? But, that's not how it goes. Those kind of things, imho, should have been done years ago, and not during/after the parent requires more financial support. So many items, so much potential, right? But, it is about resolution, including eliminating home owner's insurance and property taxes annual costs, etc. I think I read something way back when that a trust where the real estate is included in a trust and filed with the country has different protection/guidelines than where the real estate is not assigned. That's where you instinct is: estate planning attorney review, etc. Takes time, but is a good investment, rather than waiting to see if a great idea pans out 2 years later. Hard to say, depends on so many factors, but worth your review of getting on same page as co-POAs. Interesting: hadn't heard co-POAs before.
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Co-POA's is never a good idea. Water under the bridge.

Does your brother think that these collections that your mom has hoarded are going to fetch the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to renovate the house?

Is your mom sitting on valuable collections? Or is it just assumed that what your mom has is valuable? Has anything been appraised?

You can hire an appraiser now or you can wait until your mom passes away but if you hire an appraiser you can get a better idea of what kind of value you're looking at. I have this mental image of you in the front yard having a yard sale and your brother in the house on his computer trying to sell the exact same items on ebay.

Don't start thinking "lawyer" yet. Once lawyers get involved everyone but the lawyers walk away with nothing.

I am curious to know where your brother will be getting the $200,000 to renovate mom's home.
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Well, I'd vote for the professional estate organizer. I hope that is what my kids do with all of my junk, er, valuable possessions, when I am gone (or before that if it is needed). A professional will know that this fun glass bowl is worth $.25 at a garage sale, but this one that isn't as pretty is a collectible and shouldn't go for less than $10, and that some antique dealer would snap this other thing up at $120 and still have room for profit. I wouldn't even know that about my own possessions. Interest in collectibles waxes and wanes. Learning all this stuff piece-by-piece would be hugely time-consuming. Work with a firm that has a good reputation and save lots of headaches.

But ... if this happens while you and brother are still POAs, then one of you has to convince the other, and a decision must be made. If it happens after Mom dies, then you are no longer POAs.
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Back to my original question...what do you mean "when the time comes"? Do you mean when mom needs a higher level of care and the means to pay for it, or upon her death?

Two very different scenarios.
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When my dad passed, I interviewed a couple of businesses that do estate sales and decided the 50% commission plus expenses was too high. Instead I hired an efficient young guy who was experienced in Ebay sales to help me price things (important to know values) and run the cash box for 20% of all sales. My husband roamed around as security the day of the sale, but there are people who specialize in stealing at private sales. One woman took the price off a painting THREE times to try to say it was a $10 item. Another asked the price of a keepsake that was in a box. Later I found the box empty. Lots of new in the boxes things were found empty at the end of the sale. Some buyers expect to come back a second day for the traditional 50% off, but I was so exhausted and upset I cancelled to sale. We had most things (except furniture) priced at $2 or $10 and buyers haggled.
In the end, I sent a 26' truck load of furnishings that were left off to an auction where I netted $300. Nobody wanted "brown" furniture. My parents had beautiful colonial style furniture and that style has gone to barn wood primitives.
If I were to do it again I would still manage the sale myself because in the process I discovered important pieces that were of interest to the family and even historians. My father's WWII medical manual, for example would have gone out to the dump.

On the sibling issue, my sister and I started out disagreeing and now we speak mostly through lawyers. Things can go south very quickly.
Good luck.
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I favor an estate sale by a wide margin. All "stuff" is just "stuff." That souvenier from the trip to Paris in 1967 is "stuff" to most folks...The fact that Uncle Louie carved the statue of a horse is merely incidental to most folks. "Stuff" does not bring much at a sale.

I don't envy you and brother being co-POAs.

Grace + Peace,

Bob
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I would ask your mom if you and your brother can open and go through things together with her now, while she's here to tell you what they are and the associated stories. Mark and sort things along the way. I've heard good stories about how this prevents tussles between the siblings that would happen after the parent has passed. Separate items that will stay in the family (going to one or the other of you), very expensive pieces and put a slip/sticker on them so you remember, and nice but no especial worth. Tell mom this would be fun for you guys, and prevent you making mistakes with items later.
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I'll comment on the estate sale. I completely think it's a great idea. We had one for my parents' house because they were moving in with us and maintaining another residence was going to largely fall on my sister and I. We did the best we could to segregate the things they wanted to keep in the master bedroom (which was a task in an of itself) and let the estate sale people organize and stage the rest of the house. In the end, it is just stuff. It is a tremendous amount of work to itemize and tag all the items and then monitor a sale (theives show up all the time). Leave it to the professionals. In the end, they can clear out (donate, etc) anything that doesn't sell. Worth every penny (ours was a net zero, which was still a win in my book). I would encourage you to do it before your mom passes. Once a loved one passes, there are more emotional involved and that will make a difficult task that much worse. Good luck!
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I agree with BarbBrooklyn, and would add that I wished I had used a professional estate when I got rid of most of MY stuff a few years ago. I started getting rid of my stuff and she did a MUCH better job than I did.
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Look into Evertything But The House on the net. They do everything photo, ship, have buyers in foreign countries, US, and free pick up for locals. I have only purchased from them & always been happy!
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When my parents died within six months of each other, I made every decision based on what would let me return most quickly to my married life, job, and child care responsibilities. I do not regret any missed opportunities to receive more money.
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Curious about where you live and the real estate market. Putting "a couple hundred thousand" into the house sounds excessive. That would force Mom's estate to be open for years. UGH. Estates that involve a house full of "personal treasures" and selling a home (or more) drag on long enough without delusions of Antiques Roadshow and HGTV.

The sad truth is, Mom's collectibles won't bring in significant money. Unless there's a Picasso or Monet stashed away in there. And yeah, using an auctioneer/service will cut your take by 50% -- at least. The benefit is: the ugly chore will be done in one weekend. DONE. With somebody else doing the grunt work.

The DIY approach to Project Sell Stuff could last a year or more. Not exaggerating. Most of us mere mortals need to work for a living. Can brother devote himself to the minutiae 7 days a week -- valuing, tagging, marketing, selling and shipping Every Single Thing?.....until it's all gone??

There's also the burnout factor. Putting your hands on every single thing in a dead parent's house -- even if it's just to chuck it into a trash bag or dumpster -- is draining beyond description. I wanted to walk away and not come back, oh, about a million times. And I had tons of help from family and friends.

I have nothing cheery to say about unloading real estate, either. My sibs and I had our parents' primary home and investment properties appraised as is. All were dated but serviceable, and each property had several "thumbs-up" strong points that will always hold or increase value. We set our very modest prices to align with the appraisals, with special considerations for each property's pros and cons.

As sellers, we quickly learned one glaring takeaway: nobody gives a crap. We spent almost 3 years navigating a parade of casket chasers and cheapskates. Starting with the family friends who had "always been interested in" and "let me know if..." Pffft.

As the clock ticked, we succumbed and did some minor renovations. Which proved to be a fresh way to attract low-ballers. The gap between our modest asking prices and eventual sale prices surely had Mom and Dad rolling over in their grave. 

Ideally, you and bro can agree on a plan that will not make a hard thing harder. The possessions and real estate only mean something to the person who is 6 feet under. And possibly sentimental heirs. If brother is expecting the outside world to match his perceived value of the estate, he will be sorely disappointed.
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I also agreed that an estate sale is the way to go. I did that with my Mom's entire house. The house had to be emptied to sell, and I didn't know where to start! I also believe it is WHO you hire to do the estate sale that makes it a win/win! I totally lucked out. The realtor who was listing the house, recommended the local company and they did a complete sell out for us. They organized everything, and with that took pictures, listed it, and made sure that when the sale was over, a local non-profit came by for all the "leftovers"! When they were done, a check was sent to us, and the house was totally emptied, ready to be sold! A wonderful solution for a very necessary problem. Oh, they also gave us plenty of time to take away anything we wanted, or valued. And, those "collectibles" are not worth what you may think they are! Most young people of this generation have no interest.
They operate out of Florida, the northwest part.
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When my husband and I downsized, I went through an antique auction. While there were a few valuable pieces (my husband's mother was an antique dealer), most of the stuff, as another pointed out, was no longer "in style." We turned to an estate sale. While I have no doubt we probably could have done better selling on our own, the wear and tear would have left us exhausted. We moved out what we wanted, they sold or donated the rest, then cleaned the house. Well worth the extra money it cost.

We were in the same position with the house. We could have renovated for a couple hundred thousand but would we really have recouped it? In the end, the ease of just moving on win out.
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I agree with BlackHole. You need to have a professional handle the estate sale. I had hired a real estate agent to sell mom's house and she knew of a lady that did estate sales. Because she wasn't part of a large company, the percentage she made on the sale was smaller. But, she knew people looking for certain things and they trusted her. An example: she was able to sell a few antiques to the person that bought that sort of thing even before the sale. My mom was under the impression that she had valuable things. None of it was valuable. She had a basement full of junk, basically. The entire contents of her home were sold for $8000. It's sad to think about but don't fool yourself into thinking that old things are valuable. I did have to go through boxes to make sure nothing was being sold that was a family momento. That in itself was exhausting. Box after box of stuff that never should have been saved. I never, ever could have had the time or energy to sell it on my own. Maybe you tell your brother to sell a few items. That might get it off his chest and/or it might show him how difficult it will be. I wish you the best negotiating with your brother. I can't help with that because I'm an only child and that brings on different issues.
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There are two very different possible scenarios, depending on whether your mother is alive or not when the possessions and home are sold. If you and your brother are planning (as joint POAs) the sale to pay for her assisted living care in a facility, that's going to present different challenges than dispersing the estate (as Executors) after her death.
My sibling and I were harmonious POAs when our remaining parent developed dementia and a terminal heart condition. We found an assisted living facility that met our high standards and were prepared to sell his possessions and home to help pay for it. We identified different "collections" (mid-century modern furniture, WWII memorabilia; you get the idea) and located dealers in the area who specialized in those things. We decided to sell the house more or less "as-is". The plan was to do this within the first few months of his stay in the ALF.
Dad died four days after moving to the ALF. That changed the scenario, because I became the executor of the estate. My sibling and I agreed it should be dispersed as quickly as possible - a house that no one is living in is a financial black hole.
We each took the items that had personal meaning to us, and sold the rest at auction, and to the aforementioned dealers. I did some cosmetic work to the house, and found a great Realtor in the area who sold it rapidly for a fair price - this saving the estate thousands in property taxes and upkeep. The entire physical estate was settled within four months - like ripping off a bandaid: done with minimal pain.
Here's what I learned: the contents of your parents' home are not worth much (unless there's a Faberge egg or a Monet in a closet somewhere). If you select an auction house, they will come pick up the stuff, take it away, and you will receive a check - you do not have to agonize over the individual value of each item. The house itself is nothing but a drain on resources; it should be sold ASAP.
The takeaway is: Let It Go.
I'm sorry your brother is not in accord with you... you seem to be a very practical person, and he is a dreamer if he thinks spending the next few years of his life eBaying is going to make your family significantly more money. I really wish you well going forward, good luck, and blessings.
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As someone who does clean outs and online sales for the last 25 years, I can tell you that the stuff is not worth anything near what you think it maybe. The younger generation is simply not interested in old furniture or in large collections of dishes or other knickknacks. There is literally no market for a lot of this kind of stuff. I would go through the boxes of things that are personal like letters or pictures and remove those that you want and turn the rest over to someone to do it professionally. Get it done in the quickest and most efficient way you can so that you can move on with selling the house which is also going to be a problem. If your brother insists on spending hundreds of thousands of dollars I would ask him to buy you out first and then he can do whatever he wants. Most likely his expectations are way outside of reality in this situation could drag on for years and cause a great deal of difficulty between you as well as legal fees.
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Please, please don't let "stuff" come between you and your brother. I had to clean out my mother's small, one-bedroom apartment two years ago and it was exhausting. I sold some of the pieces, mostly to people in her senior building, my sister and I took a couple of things we wanted (with mom's permission) and had boxes of things sent here where I live and where she lives now. Though mostly clothes, it was expensive to ship.
It made me feel so good to give things to people and organizations that needed it. Clothes for women to go on job interviews, a bedroom set to a man who was recently out of prison and sleeping on the floor. Mementos to her friends. I even made little bags of toiletries and gave to the homeless. If you brother wants to place $200K into a remodel, your mother seems to be well off financially. However, you MUST decide now on, "The Next Step." Be prepared whether she is going into an assisted living or will live with one of you. She will require care and good care costs money. I suggest the professional to handle the estate sale. It is exhausting! And in your case it will be emotional since it is the family home with so many memories. Don't hesitate to ask an independent third party to help with this decision so you and your brother will remain loving siblings in the years ahead. That's what is important. Not STUFF.
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When my in-law's family business failed, there was so much infighting by their children that the family broke apart. It is so bad that when my son tried to repair the family with a clambake , my sister-in-law respectfully refused to attend. It was a horrific time for everyone involved and the estrangement continues today. My in-laws would be devastated if they were alive to know their family is no longer a family. As for your family home, I'd suggest talking to a realtor to ask what the houses are selling for in the neighborhood. It may not be worth putting so much money in renovations if you wouldn't recoup and /or if the house would not sell quickly. As for her possessions, unless they are collectibles or antiques, even though they are neatly boxed, if they have no net worth and would not appeal to a wide variety of people, paying someone to auction or sell off the estate wouldn't be worth it. You may wind up selling it to someone who will buy the lot from you. Check the boxes yourself to see if there are any heirlooms you or your brother may want. Consider not making a big deal out of what you are doing with your Mom. If she has hoarding tendencies, she may not want to part with anything. Consult with the attorney who drew up her will and let him act as a mediator and advisor between you and your brother. If their is none, it may be worthwhile to consult with an Elder Law attorney.
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I just went through this a few weeks ago. My mom is not a hoarder but there was 60 years of things that needed to be sorted. The house is huge and we needed to get it ready to sell. My brother had an appraiser come in and we all believed he way undervalued things. My SIL and brother have a lot of experience with estate sales and so decided to do it themselves. I agreed as I had my own things I do with our mom so I was not going to be doing the major work. Bottom line? Not worth it! By their own admission they spent about 7 full days total preparing, 3 days selling and another 2 days cleaning up. We yielded 6,000, but spent half of that in hotel, food and clean up costs as well as junk haul away and of course all of that time off work. We took the things that mattered to us. To have someone come in and deal with all of it then clean it all up would have been worth saving the time.
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I would go with the estate sellers. I think your brother has been watching too much reality TV. My mother is in Assisted Living and I will eventually sell her house and stuff to meet her expenses. She likes to think I will inherit the house and have a nice nest egg. I am not counting on it. I just hope her assets last her lifetime. She always tells me how much things are worth, but stuff is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I did research on o couple smaller items to see if I could swell my mom's bank account. The item my mother said was worth $1,000 was selling on several sites for $50. That was the best of the bunch. Good thing I was not too surprised. I wish you luck getting your brother on board.
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If you send things to auction - go just to see what things sell for - unless everything was very top quality when bought it is now 'used furniture' -

We live in a very hot real estate market - to point they are passing laws that non-citizens can't buy without a surcharge - our house is worth 6 times what we paid for it - so a few years ago I called insurance company to increase our home insurance to cover the increased value but they said IT IS THE LAND THAT IS INCREASED IN VALUE NOT THE HOUSE - talk to a few real estate people before you do anything because the builders raze the house to put up a McMansion
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I was fortunate to find an appraiser who charged less than $100 to appraise all of my mother's things. She was an interior designer and an antique collector and had lots and lots of everything. The appraiser was able to tag everything (I had everything laid out on tables and up in my garage prior to her coming). This way we did not have to pay the huge commission required for a professional company or meet any min. sales requirements. I agree with others that even though you might have some nice things, it is difficult to find buyers or others who value it for what it really is worth and somethings are just not worth that much. I was also fortunate to find a higher end 2nd hand shop that came and bought many, many things. This person was referred by the appraiser I found. I would look in your local phone book and ask if you can just pay for someone to appraise. The person came with the little tags and everything and said it would go quicker if I helped her tag the items after she wrote the prices. She happened to have worked on Antique RoadShow in Canada for a number of years. She looked up on her phone (online) just a few items; other that that, she was able to do pricings of hundreds and hundreds of items. GOOD LUCK!
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Agonizing thing to go through after the loss of the loved one. As executor, I had to inventory the whole property after Dad passed - lots of work, decisions and emotional stress. I feel for you.

Eventually I distributed some things to beneficiaries and we did an auction with the rest. We found a good auctioneer who only took 20%. He expected a very good auction or percentage would have been higher. He was more than fair. He cleaned out the whole house, took some things to the dump and charity and sold all of the rest. (Some of them won't take everything.)

It would have taken years to sell things by ourselves and on ebay - Dad was WWII, depression baby... saved everything. Overwhelming amount of stuff! But as you say, well cared for and organized. That did help.

We did not choose an estate sale as we didn't want to haggle over everything and we did want everything gone.
Prices - you never know. It was a good auction but not quite as good as even the auctioneer thought it would be.
Seems right now people like small Americana that they can sell on ebay but tastes are constantly changing.

Now there is the house. Family home of many years but most live far away now. Another hard decision. 5 beneficiaries, 5 different perspectives.
Finally decided to sell and it's not easy. Not only do people today not want all the old stuff, they also don't want 5 bedroom old houses with one upstairs bathroom in a languishing little northern town with a bad economy. We will be lowering the price. I'll be glad when this is all over. Good luck to you!
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The one thing to check is the jewelry - costume stuff is for donations but the gems hold their value - turned out mom's jewelry was what was worth the money - gold [only] was weighed & was set at the price of gold that day but write that down to be able the value for that day as the changes but nothing for workmanship - 1 necklace that I thought was costume was worth $3000+ so if you are unsure have it checked out

Gems can be reset - so they are valuable too - I found a jeweler who charged by the hour & we did 2 sessions of 1 1/2 hours [over 70 pieces] - he gave me verbal quick appraisals of everything just to have a ballpark idea of value so I could balance where it was consigned to different parts of family - I didn't want to give too much to one side & not enough to the other out of ignorance - FYI I assigned a number for each item & took a pix so that I could catalogue it all

1 $3000 ring my sister took in to another jeweler who said it was costume because no flaws in the clear stones so must be cubic zerconia so she asked for another opnion from a gemologist who said they were flawless diamonds & the garnet was a rare large unflawed one not synthetic - gemologist said the original jeweler was bang on with his valuations [which was nice to hear]
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Oh forgot to mention - it was difficult to find someone who would do a detailed appraisal. It had to be a certified person - in our little town this meant auctioneer. Some just want to give you a ballpark on everything at once and some won't even come if they think you don't have much of value.
Regarding jewelry - yes be careful. We had a little bit of old gold jewelry - not great - some with missing stones, a hatpin...nobody knew whose it was so not sentimental. It appraised at a good value and I decided to sell it rather than take a chance at the auction. One of the few things we did sell separately. But when I went to sell it, all happy thinking of the money I would get, the same jeweler would only give a shockingly small fraction. I had asked him before, is that what you would give us? and he said yes but it turned out not to be true. His explanation was that the appraisal value was the value to insure it. I was very disappointed. I sold it anyway as not much choice of jewelers in the area and at that point I wasn't optimistic. Only one ring was perfect and I thought that would be a problem with 5 beneficiaries. Probably I got taken on that one.
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After Dad passed and it was time to sell the house in CA, my brother and I opted for an estate sale. We both live on the east coast, and we're both downsizing anyway. The house held 60 years of pack-rat activity, and the stuff we did claim easily filled a 16-foot truck between us.

The estate sale folks took 35% off the top, which we both thought was high. There's no way we could have gotten "our price" for the stuff sold. But neither of us wanted it, and neither of us paid for the stuff in the house anyway. We did pick out the items we knew would have some value and sold those separately, then let the estate sales people get rid of the rest.

I think what swung our decision was that the estate sales people would clean the place up after the sale. So for that 35% we got some bonus money and a cleaning service. To us, it was worth it.
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If "when the time comes" is referring to your mothers death, who is POA does not matter as with her death the position of POA ceases. At that point the person making decisions is the executor of the will. Who is assigned as the executor of her estate?
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