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There is an 84 year old man living with dementia and sensory impairments. His primary caregiver has no affinity - as she puts it - with him, and blames this on his toxic behaviour. In fact her view is that his history and his personality lose him any right to compassion. She wishes he was dead.
MrsGumby, leaving aside the impact this is having on *you*, what would you think if any other vulnerable elder were described as being in your father's position? Surely you recognise the level of risk?
If these are your true feelings - and I only question them because we all go through such phases in the caregivers' marathon, and we're all entitled to vent - then you cannot continue to be your father's caregiver. You must find him somewhere else to live. What are the obstacles to your doing that?
country mouse oh dear you know every thing don't you? If you had have read my other posts where my brother and sister are affected by this man's nasty behaviour especially my brother, you would see what obstacles I'm faced with. I'm not thinking only of me but my siblings. He is likely to disinherit my brother for reasons unbeknownst to my sister and I. He has treated him like sh** his whole life. before dementia Now as I said in.a previous post answer, he is adopted but we love him very much, and hate to see him treated this way. He has a very well paid job but he works very hard for it. The level of trust is non-existent. My sister and I are more than happy to let him be POA bc we trust him. So I don't know what crap you had to endure with your aged parents but dont go judging me in your bloody high moral ground. Have you suffered Physical and psychological abuse all your life? I know he's got dementia and we are considering other options.
Thankyou Country Mouse And on that note I'll be deleting my account with this forum
What sort of doctor manages his care? Have you consulted a geriatric psychiatrist about the possibility that medication might have an effect on his paranoia and delusions?
Country Mouse. My father is living with us, in answer to your question. So we're pretty much stuck with him for many years to come. I no longer have any Feelings of affinity for him nor do my siblings, as his toxic behaviour eliminates all compassion. It is what it is.
Mrs Gumby, I'm sorry to be so behind the curve, but who is actually taking care of your father day to day?
The reason I ask is that you and your brother (I'm leaving your sister aside because she has quite understandably bowed out) have both strongly suspected dementia in your father for at least twelve months now. And yet it doesn't seem to have changed your expectations of what he's able to control in his own behaviour, or what impact it will have on what he says or believes.
If a person who is possibly deluded and paranoid makes an unfounded accusation against you, or tells nasty stories about you to other people, why would it make you angry? The man is mentally ill.
So I'm asking about his care because if family history makes it (understandably, again) impossible for you children to adapt to your father's dementia, and feel compassion for him, it really might be wiser to ask professional outsiders to take responsibility.
Oh Lord, this makes me so very sad. My mom is a master at stirring the pot between siblings.
Certain things can’t be undone and permanent damage is the consequence.
I let go for my own sanity. It sounds like you should too. If you don’t let go it will consume you.
Move towards a healthy place which most likely means allowing others to take over the caregiving responsibilities.
Accept that your siblings have reasons for feeling as they do. Accept that you may never agree on certain things.
You mentioned that you are a caregiver out of obligation. No one should be a caregiver out of obligation. What purpose does that truly serve?
He has dementia so he isn’t going to be the same as before. There are plenty of people on this forum that have experience with dementia. They can help you understand his behavior.
Thankyou Im in the situation where my father "confides" in me and my dl, and constantly tries to turn us against my brother, who is his POA, which suits my sister and me as he is best suited for handling these matters. My brother although not my blood, has always been good to his siblings so we see no reason to distrust him. My father on the other hand thanks him.and kisses his a** when speaking to my brother but behind his back, it's don't tell him this and that. It makes me so.angry but if I was to lose my sh** with him, he could turn even nastier, so I'm f***ed. He's so bloody manipulative and it's true what my sister says, I'm enabling his toxic behaviour. Here's the thing. We bought a Caravan for my stepson to live in as my father lives with us, so he's given us the money for it. Not a terribly expensive one. that's all good but it's again with the don't tell your brother I gave the money for it, which I have anyway. I'm not hiding sh** from.my siblings. If they resent it, too bad. they shouldn't anyway as we're the ones looking after the old bastard. So there it is. Toxic parents like my father live forever
Yes Thankyou that's true. We still have to be a family when he's gone. Im just not sure what to expect next. my problem is that I.take things to heart and I'm way too sensitive.
Sibling unity and open communication. If Dad says that one of you said or did something, do NOT believe him until you have talked to the sibling in question and found out the truth. Always talk to each other first. This is the kind of situation where you all hang together or you will surely hang separately.
I'm sorry. just venting. but my sister can't look after him, nor can my brother as his wife can't stand my father and vice versa. he has become an extremely toxic person, whereas once you couldn't meet a more kind and compassionate man, even though he my and sister had a difficult relationship, it doesn't discount the good qualities of my father. I just hate what he's become in the last 18 months. I feel powerless bc we had a wonderful relationship where we hardly ever argued. Now I dread seeing or ringing him. I tried the other day to make him realise how much stress he puts on me and he said to offer it up to God. well, I was livid as you can imagine. It's like he doesn't care how he hurts now.
If you have become so distraught that you wish death on your father I think it is time to move well out of the situation and leave your father and sister be. We get two chances at family in life. The one we are born into and the one we create for ourselves. If the first has failed, move on to the second with the lessons you have learned from the first.
Please reconsider being his caregiver. Just because he refuses to go into a facility doesn't mean that you have to step up and take care of him. He has choices and so do all of you.
I am sorry that you and your sister have had a falling out. I can understand why she doesn't care that he no longer has a sound mind, the damage he inflicted doesn't change because he is now demented. Please don't disregard her feelings about what she went through as a youngster. It can create a lifetime wedge between you. He hurt her and he is still hurting you guys, it's hard to get past things that keep happening.
If you do decide to be your dads doormat, I mean caregiver, be prepared to do everything with no help from your siblings, your desire to do this does NOT obligate them to do it.
I think your reply is excellent. It would be one thing to forgive abuse when the abuser has apologized and shown true reform, but to walk back into continuing abuse? No, no, no. At best, caregive at a distance. No none deserves to be abused and the wounds will not heal when they continue to be torn open.
My mother did this for years to my brother and I and no one knew it until my dad passed away. Unfortunately, my brother is just like my mother and he believed every word my mother told him.
There is no going back and making things right between him and I. He is now on drugs, steals. lies, and is abusive. My mother never wanted my brother and I to be close and she got it! I did learn this "sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on."
You gather the group together and you resolve that you are not going to take the bait. No matter what he says you can not "trust" what he says. If he says "Billy said...." respond by saying..."oh, that's nice" and drop it. The same response for any other comment. Get together 1 time a week so you can chat, evaluate how things are going. come to a decision early that if it gets to be to much for you to handle that you will have to place him in Memory Care. If another sibling wants to take this on then more power to them. (But I doubt you will get much resistance) As you can tell from many of the posts you have to keep the lines of communication open. There may be cracks try to patch them as quickly as possible. Don't let wounds fester (not literal wounds, metaphorical)
My dreadful father spent years doing this to me and my sisters, and it wasn’t dementia. However many posts have explained that dementia sometimes uncovers and worsens traits that were there before. Back in the days of the book ‘The Games People Play’, there was a game called ‘Let’s you and him fight’, at which my father was a master. The game's pay-off was a feeling of power and the excitement of watching it all pan out.
My sisters and I coped with it by staying in touch and letting each other know what was going down. However it was easier because we knew him and had very little respect or affection for him. If you and your siblings don’t have that background, AlvaDeer’s gentle approach would probably be a better place to start from. However I would think carefully about past times, and consider whether this could have started a long time ago. It might help you all to make sense of it.
Thanks. Unfortunately my sister and I have had a falling out and now ignores any contact I try to make with her. In fact she and my Father are very much alike. Its all about them.
You all have to understand he now suffers from a Dementia. He is can no longer be held responsible for things he does or says. Not that he lies, he just perceives the world differently. Short term is gone or going all he has is long term that is maybe distorted. His brain is broken/dying. TV, dreams and reality all become one. He can no longer differentiate between them.
Thankyou. I'm so stressed out. I can't sleep for more than 3 hours a night. I just don't know how far or what stage his dementia is at. All I know is that his memory is very bad, he says hurtful things and has no empathy for anyone. I'm so sick of crying and having my stomach tied up in knots. I think this will never end.
I think I would gather all siblings together and have a good discussion over a barbeque (masked and socially distanced of course). I would not say that this IS what is happening, but I would say "This is my perception of some things Dad is saying to each of us about others; can't tell if this is purposeful or not, but just wondering if I am the ONLY ONE noticing". This would clear the air on what Dad actually is saying. If you are the only one noticing this, just leave Dad be. Tell your siblings that, if they hear anything "odd" from Dad about you, or about what you "may have said" to clear it up directly with you, because you love the sibs and it is important now that you all stick together to help Dad. If you have kids you will understand how they kind of seek to divide parents to get their way. It's always best to talk it out. Gently, not with anger.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Somewhere on the planet...
There is an 84 year old man living with dementia and sensory impairments. His primary caregiver has no affinity - as she puts it - with him, and blames this on his toxic behaviour. In fact her view is that his history and his personality lose him any right to compassion. She wishes he was dead.
MrsGumby, leaving aside the impact this is having on *you*, what would you think if any other vulnerable elder were described as being in your father's position? Surely you recognise the level of risk?
If these are your true feelings - and I only question them because we all go through such phases in the caregivers' marathon, and we're all entitled to vent - then you cannot continue to be your father's caregiver. You must find him somewhere else to live. What are the obstacles to your doing that?
oh dear you know every thing don't you?
If you had have read my other posts where my brother and sister are affected by this man's nasty behaviour especially my brother, you would see what obstacles I'm faced with. I'm not thinking only of me but my siblings. He is likely to disinherit my brother for reasons unbeknownst to my sister and I. He has treated him like sh** his whole life. before dementia Now as I said in.a previous post answer, he is adopted but we love him very much, and hate to see him treated this way. He has a very well paid job but he works very hard for it. The level of trust is non-existent. My sister and I are more than happy to let him be POA bc we trust him.
So I don't know what crap you had to endure with your aged parents but dont go judging me in your bloody high moral ground. Have you suffered Physical and psychological abuse all your life? I know he's got dementia and we are considering other options.
Thankyou Country Mouse
And on that note I'll be deleting my account with this forum
My father is living with us, in answer to your question. So we're pretty much stuck with him for many years to come. I no longer have any Feelings of affinity for him nor do my siblings, as his toxic behaviour eliminates all compassion. It is what it is.
The reason I ask is that you and your brother (I'm leaving your sister aside because she has quite understandably bowed out) have both strongly suspected dementia in your father for at least twelve months now. And yet it doesn't seem to have changed your expectations of what he's able to control in his own behaviour, or what impact it will have on what he says or believes.
If a person who is possibly deluded and paranoid makes an unfounded accusation against you, or tells nasty stories about you to other people, why would it make you angry? The man is mentally ill.
So I'm asking about his care because if family history makes it (understandably, again) impossible for you children to adapt to your father's dementia, and feel compassion for him, it really might be wiser to ask professional outsiders to take responsibility.
Certain things can’t be undone and permanent damage is the consequence.
I let go for my own sanity. It sounds like you should too. If you don’t let go it will consume you.
Move towards a healthy place which most likely means allowing others to take over the caregiving responsibilities.
Accept that your siblings have reasons for feeling as they do. Accept that you may never agree on certain things.
You mentioned that you are a caregiver out of obligation. No one should be a caregiver out of obligation. What purpose does that truly serve?
He has dementia so he isn’t going to be the same as before. There are plenty of people on this forum that have experience with dementia. They can help you understand his behavior.
Wishing you peace in your life.
Im in the situation where my father "confides" in me and my dl, and constantly tries to turn us against my brother, who is his POA, which suits my sister and me as he is best suited for handling these matters. My brother although not my blood, has always been good to his siblings so we see no reason to distrust him. My father on the other hand thanks him.and kisses his a** when speaking to my brother but behind his back, it's don't tell him this and that. It makes me so.angry but if I was to lose my sh** with him, he could turn even nastier, so I'm f***ed. He's so bloody manipulative and it's true what my sister says, I'm enabling his toxic behaviour.
Here's the thing. We bought a Caravan for my stepson to live in as my father lives with us, so he's given us the money for it. Not a terribly expensive one. that's all good but it's again with the don't tell your brother I gave the money for it, which I have anyway. I'm not hiding sh** from.my siblings. If they resent it, too bad. they shouldn't anyway as we're the ones looking after the old bastard.
So there it is.
Toxic parents like my father live forever
We still have to be a family when he's gone.
Im just not sure what to expect next. my problem is that I.take things to heart and I'm way too sensitive.
he has become an extremely toxic person, whereas once you couldn't meet a more kind and compassionate man, even though he my and sister had a difficult relationship, it doesn't discount the good qualities of my father. I just hate what he's become in the last 18 months. I feel powerless bc we had a wonderful relationship where we hardly ever argued. Now I dread seeing or ringing him. I tried the other day to make him realise how much stress he puts on me and he said to offer it up to God.
well, I was livid as you can imagine. It's like he doesn't care how he hurts now.
Oh, no.
It may be time for someone else to care for your father. Please ask for help.
I am sorry that you and your sister have had a falling out. I can understand why she doesn't care that he no longer has a sound mind, the damage he inflicted doesn't change because he is now demented. Please don't disregard her feelings about what she went through as a youngster. It can create a lifetime wedge between you. He hurt her and he is still hurting you guys, it's hard to get past things that keep happening.
If you do decide to be your dads doormat, I mean caregiver, be prepared to do everything with no help from your siblings, your desire to do this does NOT obligate them to do it.
Best of luck dealing with his nonsense.
There is no going back and making things right between him and I. He is now on drugs, steals. lies, and is abusive. My mother never wanted my brother and I to be close and she got it! I did learn this "sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on."
Good luck!
What plans?
Made by whom?
If the plan is that YOU will take care of him because HE refuses to move into care, I will point to a fundamental flaw in your reasoning.
Your father's options are:
1. Stay put and take the risks.
2. Move into care.
Option 3. - move in with family - is not one he can create out of his own head and thin air. Don't you create for him!
No matter what he says you can not "trust" what he says.
If he says "Billy said...." respond by saying..."oh, that's nice" and drop it. The same response for any other comment.
Get together 1 time a week so you can chat, evaluate how things are going.
come to a decision early that if it gets to be to much for you to handle that you will have to place him in Memory Care. If another sibling wants to take this on then more power to them. (But I doubt you will get much resistance)
As you can tell from many of the posts you have to keep the lines of communication open. There may be cracks try to patch them as quickly as possible. Don't let wounds fester (not literal wounds, metaphorical)
My sisters and I coped with it by staying in touch and letting each other know what was going down. However it was easier because we knew him and had very little respect or affection for him. If you and your siblings don’t have that background, AlvaDeer’s gentle approach would probably be a better place to start from. However I would think carefully about past times, and consider whether this could have started a long time ago. It might help you all to make sense of it.
If you have kids you will understand how they kind of seek to divide parents to get their way. It's always best to talk it out. Gently, not with anger.