I am new to this site and new to caring for the elderly all together. I feel lost and I need help from anyone who can spare it. I recently got engaged to a man I met on the internet 2 years ago. Although I knew he cared for his grandfather when I met him, I didn't know the details.
His grandfather is an 84 year old widow. I would hate to call him stubborn, but it is one of the best words to describe him. If I was having a bad day I would go as far to say he is lazy, care less and selfish! But I love the old man. My fiancee has been living with, and caring for his grandfather the past 10 years! They are from a broken family so I feel his grandfather relies on him more than usual for that reason alone. My troubles come into play as I am recently graduated college and now have plans to marry and buy a house with my fiancee. But I need to know if I should suggest putting his grandfather into a nursing home. I don't want to come off as the selfish and care less one, or make my fiancee feel like he has to choose between us, but ultimately, I feel he should focus his energy on our relationship and his own interests rather then worrying about his grandpa.
My fiance pays the bills, and then the two of us share the housework, grocery shopping and any and all repairs in his grandpa's home. His grandfathers home is falling apart because he refuses to spend any money for repairs. There is no working shower, running water in the kitchen or working washer or dryer. Luckily there is heat and air conditioning because my fiancee was once a heating and cooling installer and did it himself. Aside from the poor conditions of the home, his grandfather is a real piece of work. He is constantly making a mess; not in one room, but all rooms. Dirty dishes, empty food wrappers, food and drinks spilled and smeared all over the place. Newspapers piled up on tables and furniture. Yarn and tape that he uses for god knows what!
My fiancee also believes his grandfather has stolen personal belongings from him in the past. There is a collection of garbage, stolen junk and cardboard in his room.
His grandfather has poor vision and hearing. He is unable to walk for long periods of time without shortness of breath and pain in his legs and feet due to the fact he spends the entire day just sitting in his chair watching t.v while refusing to see a doctor even when we make the appointments for him. He doesn't even have a family doctor nor will he even hear about us finding him a new one. He believes alka seltzer is the cure for anything. This results in us getting sick from his constant spread of germs as he doesn't practice good hygiene. In fact, he doesn't even use soap. He merely soaks his hands in water whenever he uses the washroom.
Late last year, we had to rush him to the hospital as he had a hernia for so long it became tangled with his intestines. He fought with us about bringing him to the emergency room and refused to allow the hospital staff to come into his home to check on him and help him get back on his feet. He was out of commission for awhile and relied on diapers that we bought and found hidden in his closet. He would make home made diapers out of plastic bags and rags he would find to save money. He refuses to spend a dime on essentials. Tooth brushes, tooth paste, deoderant etc.
Another thing is, he is constantly making up stories about his past, things he sees on t.v and loves to gossip about his family including my fiancee who is his caregiver!!!
Although he is able to remember appointments like the time and day to be ready for grocery shopping, names of his family members, names of television shows and the days and times they run on, I feel if he lived alone his neighbors would complain of an unkept home, loud tv, and mice (from the constant garbage pile up and food being dropped on the floor and such). He cannot make popcorn without burning it, yet he still attempts to cook biscuits and such in his oven. His diet only consists of t.v dinners and pepsi. Again he is 84 and isn't on any medication or diet. I also think he would be in trouble for not paying his bills as I already stated, my fiance has been paying all the bills for the last 10 years. Of, course, we would still take him grocery shopping anc maintain his yard, but we would no longer be doing his housework or helping him care for his dog.
I guess my big fear is my fiancee and I getting in trouble as some people may see his current lifestyle being a result of neglect. The social worker from the hospital questioned his home made diapers and the untidy home that the paramedics reported to be "gross". We try our hardest to clean EVERYDAY. To put food in the house that can be cooked, and he refuses to eat with us. He will not see a doctor and we are told we cannot force him even when it affects our health. I am also worried my fiancee will feel to guilty to move out and start his own life with me and let his grandpa finish his life the way he chooses..
As for some of the posters comments about my fiancee's living conditions - men are messy by nature. My mother cleans up after my father. My sister cleans up after her boyfriend and his company. My little brother's room has no floor only piles up dirty laundry and video game controllers and dishes. My point is, the grandfatgher had someone to clean up after him for 41 years! I bet he never lifted a single finger or washed a dish in all his married days...so why would he start now when he has a grandson and his fiancee to do it for him? My fiancee is a very clean guy. His room, now our room, is always spot-less. In fact, I am barely out of the bed before he starts making it! The grandfather is the one causing the mess. Everyday there is at least a full garbage to go out in the afternoon, and one more before bed. He urinates all over the bathroom floor, the toilet seat and lid. He throws dirty tissue and paper towels into the bath tub and shuts the curtain. Water is constantly splashed all over the sink counter. Believe me, we both clean the bathroom alone, 5 or so times a day! The kitchen counter and floor are cleaned everyday, garbage is changed around the clock. Newspapers are being collected and tossed away. It is not like my fiancee is rolling around in the garbage or adding to it. He even splurges on expensive home and industrial cleaners to kill germs and eliminate bad smells from the urine and garbage.
My fiancee once made the first attempt at a home repair by calling a plumber to fix and replace the toilet. To our surprise, the grandfather has flushed food, paper towels, rags and even dry cement into the toilet. The plumber also found cardboard (empty toilet paper rolls ripped and flushed) and an old house key. He told us he was surprised the toilet worked at all and didn't flood everytime it was used. Within a few months, we we're having problems again and now our basement ceiling leaks everytime the toilet is flushed.
When we asked the grandfather about making any repairs he said he was fine with the house the way it was and that he didn't feel repairs we're necessary. More recently, during a trip to Lowe's, he bought a couple 0.98 cent a piece tiles and cut them up and nailed them to certain parts of the kitchen floor where he felt there were cracks. I mean..THIS is the stuff we are dealing with. Any normal person would look into replacing the WHOLE floor, not one little corner.
My fiancee and I have access to showers both at work and at our gym. We are able to keep our part of the house clean and tidy no problem. It would be nice to wake up and shower or shower before bed at HOME, but for now it works. We have both put money into the house as far as buying new dishes, a new toilet and getting new furniture for his grandfather since he refuses to spend any money whatsoever on that sort of stuff. My thought is, this is NOT our home. My fiancee has no interest in living here or repairing it to live here once his grandfather is gone. So he won't put money into the home. Plus as I said, he is covering the expenses on his grandfather's home, our gym memberships, travelling expenses, our food and other activities that require money. He is also paying half my student loans with me. I am not able to get a work visa. I have applied for a different visa and the work visa is included but won't be issued for 1-3 months. We are in the very beginning stages of our visa journey.
Outside the home, my fiancee and I are so much alike. I love the man he is and I want to marry him. I don't want to marry his grandfather. And although he tells me how much he appreciates me helping him out and tolerating the situation, I still feel at times he takes advantage of our relationship and expects me to do the things I do for his grandfather. Because my fiancee works afternoons, I am home for 8 hours a day mon-fri alone with his grandfather. The things you can hear an 84 year old man say when he thinks nobody else is around.
As for the questions, what kind of woman would I be if I hadn't snooped? He told me about an ex he was with for 5 years. Apparently, their relationship was too rocky for marriage and the girl had her own issues. His sister told me my ex was a womanizer in his past and was never serious for long but she has seen a new man since I was introduced to her last year.
Although my fiancee's family is torn and he is enabling his grandfather to live an unhealthy, untidy lifestyle, he means very well. He still attempts to take his grandfather to the DR (although we are denied everytime). Instead we have been going to my fiancee`s DR and asking questions about how to keep his grandfather healthy and etc. My fiancee has told me several times he never knew it would be like this and all he wanted to do was make his grandma happy and he can`t wait until we live in our own house and have our own family...I just feel his grandpa will never let it happen. My fiancee once told me the whole reason he actually moved in was his grandfather would call him and make up stories that teenagers would hang out in the park by his home and bang on his doors and windows...of, course...it wasn`t true but that is how the grandpa is. He would rather lie than just ask for company or help.
I don`t WANT his grandfather to go into a nursing home. I want my fiancee to finally move out into a house of our own to give himself and yes, me, a break. I just feel a nursing home would be more suitable as I don`t believe the grandfather would be able to live alone.
Oh, I just saw a couple other questions. Of, course we don`t have company over! There is nowhere to have company as the grandfather occupies the living room and his dogs constant barking occupy the whole house.
I don`t tell my parents or friends. All they know is his grandfather `gets sick` and that he likes to make up stories and that he can be cheap....which is a huuuuge understatement. I don`t tell them because they would all tell me to run as well.
I don`t want to leave my fiancee because he has done nothing wrong except to care for someone and enable them to live however they like. And who am I to come into his grandfather`s home and tell the old man it`s time to change? One thing I am comforted by is that my fiancee calls it ``gramps house`` whenever he refers to being there or going there. Which let`s me know he doesn`t feel at home there either...and that would also help him move more easily.
I do not know what I would do in your circumstances, because he is not your family unless you choose to be apart of it. He is from a generation where they had to be frugal because of the Great Depression and the rationing of World War II and that mind frame never left them. Actually, I think it would do our own generation a bit of good if they could learn this lesson a little bit. Sometimes it can be a bit frustrating, though. Also men of his generation were more likely to be waited on by the women of the family or in this case the younger family members. I have no idea if grandpa is like he is because of the life long experience or if now that grandma is gone and not calling the shots that he is taking advantage of a good thing. If anything this is good experience for you as a social worker to not always judge a book by its cover. That even with the best care, it can be a challenge for a caregiver to keep a person clean, fed, and home in shape. As for going to the doctor, it is the grandfather's decision as long as he is deemed sane enough to make his own decisions.
You need to think long and hard about what you are willing to do and have a good long talk with your finance. Good Luck.
0. It is true that kindness is the most beautiful thing in the world and should drive our actions, but it can be cruel to be kind.
1. the dog: that is animal abuse and need to stop immediately. Take the dog out of there and bring it to a no-kill animal shelter or placement agency for this very purpose. Council on aging can probably advise.
2. power of attorney? does your fiancee have power of attorney? if not, he needs it so he can stop letting someone with a child's mentality run your lives. If he had poa he could get the house fixed with grandpa's money.
3. Would you let a 5 year old decide for themselves and worse, for you, how to live life? He may be an adult physically but he isn't one mentally.
4.5. If you have kids with this man, will they be allowed to do, eat and mess what they want at all times? Somebody has to be the grown up.
5. Take the emotion out of it and let reality and logic rule for one hour. During that hour sit down and write down what advice you'd give to a friend in your situation.
6. Igloo' has a point, don't become a statistic.
stl - whatever your primary language is, translate this and make it your mantra:
"this man is out to control me, I need to get out and away"
This whole internet/visa is set up for enslavement and entrapment. He has you totally beholden to him, once you get married you will be legally bound to him.
From his perspective this is a win-win, he get's a young, pretty, educated sex buddy who can work her butt off for him & grandpa and since he's the "sponsor" he has total control. IMHO this is never good. Even we are all wrong and he is the Archangel Michael - he'd always have you cleaning another part of his wings.
Go and see the consul for your country to see what your options are. You can do some of this on-line. Do you have your passport or does he have it? Have you had any of the ICE meetings regarding your visa? ICE has a whole division that deals with these sort of issues.
Also is there anyway you can have family visit? That was a great idea, Like for a month. So that it establishes that in the future your family will be doing this - that you have people and they will be there eventually.
For me, Naheaton is spot-on with the assesment.
This has the making for a reality show and it isn't pretty. You're what, 24, 25? Educated with a job, making & saving money, correct? These should be your years for adventure, exploration and doing things for yourself before you settle down and start a family or start a business or get heavy into work. If you marry him, remember this is a legal contract. Whatever expenses he does involves you and your money. If grandpa goes into a home, and your then husband signs him in you could find yourself paying for grandpa's care.
As a cynic, something about this doesn't pass the smell test. You met on the internet? If you can get into his laptop and dig down to see if he approached other women on becoming his wife/partner/caregiver. What are his finances like, does he have other legal commitments, like education loans, that if you could have to contribute to pay off.
There's probably good reason's why grandpa's other family doesn't want anything to do with him. Talk with them to get their perspective - especially those that married into this family.
Please keep in mind, that the problems for the elderly, like dementia, do NOT get better. There are med's that can keep their cognitive ability that they are at today from slipping as far but nothing reverses the aging process. Grandpa could live another 10 years maybe more. If he already was a hoarder & a miser, that is who he is and it will only become more intense.If your finance's plan is that you are all about becoming the co-caregiver for gramp's, is that what you want for the next decade for yourself?
As others have said, WAIT! and ask ?'s and if needed snoop around. But as I said, I am a cynic. Good luck and keep us posted.
I certainly don't understand anyone living this way for 10 years and I certainly don't understand a woman that just graduated from college thinking so little of herself or desperate for a mans affection to even consider getting involved in this mess. It will only get worse when there is conflict over the situation.,
I realize this sounds harsh but I call them as I see them.
However, my hubby had the same habits. When I moved in with him, there were three motorcycles in the dining room. lol They took them out in the spring to ride, and I promptly put a couch there and wouldn't let the bikes back in. I lived for a year without a kitchen sink, doing dishes in the bathroom when I was eight months pregnant. Hubby's dad owned the house, and we were supposed to be fixing it up so he could rent it out. Um, yeah. No sink for a year, because the man was too cheap to get one installed.
I had a job retraining hubby to do repairs on the house, pay bills on time, etc. Now, 26 years later, and a huge amount of fights and me standing my ground, we get along just fine. His dad died the same year our first child was born, and we used the insurance money to repair the house, including the sink. It was sad it had to come to that. I felt and still do feel, guilty for feeling relief at his death, because it freed my hubby from a very destructive relationship with his dad. (And allowed me to truly run the household, in all honesty)
You, on the other hand, have the option of dealing with things very differently than I did. You have the benefit of logical thinking. I was just a kid who wanted to be with my man, and I had the common sense of a turnip. You need to decide how you want to live. Then, when you have that clear in your head, discuss it with your man. See if he has the same idea as you do. Clean, healthy environment, or cluttered, filthy one. Period. If he wants what you want, then discuss ways to reach that goal. He may suggest gramps moving into assisted living, or he may not, but gramps is not your issue. Your man is your issue. He can choose to deal with gramps however he wants, but he has to be your partner in achieving whatever future goals you BOTH have. If the goals do not agree, you've chosen the wrong man.
I compromised with mine. The back yard is his to wreck as he pleases. It's fenced, and holds junk, an old car, and a shed with all his tools in it. The front yard and the house are my domain. The basement is my mother's, since all her stuff is stored there just in case it's needed, which is the compromise I made with her to go to the nursing home. Soon enough, I'll weed out the basement, and slowly get rid of the stuff she never asks about. Compromise is always the name of the game in a relationship, but you still have to have a few things you will not budge on. This is your life you're discussing, not some hypothetical situation. You need to state your needs to your fiancée, and let him help you take care of them. Period. Without his input, we're all talking in circles. What does he want, and how does he want to get to his goal? And then look at it again, and see where you might be willing to compromise to meet his needs. Such as caring for gramps. Do NOT enable the enabler. Sounds to me like getting away from his grandfather might be the best thing for him, just as it was for my hubby and his father. If he truly wants to be your husband, then he does need to choose to spend more time and effort on your relationship than his gramps. That doesn't mean ignore gramps, but it does mean his future with you takes precedence.
Ah, good luck on all of this. I'm pulling for you. Now, I'm off to check on the ramp we're building for my hubby. He's heading home from a two month hosp and nursing home stay on Wednesday. :D And yes, he's also my best friend in the world, in spite of all the heartaches over the years. A lot of work goes into any relationship, and I got lucky the one I chose was a decent, caring, loving type in spite of everything.
Probably, but here it is anyway....
omg! run!!!
lovbob
I am a little confused by the "sponsor" thing. I am wondering if there isn't a secondary consideration here. Did he think that, in addition to a fiance, he was getting help with gramps? Were you thinking that, in addition to a wonderful guy, you were getting an opportunity to work here in your field? So much going on here. I think you are both a little disappointed that things aren't quite going as planned.
Regardless, your fiance cannot be held to a promise made years ago when he did not know how much gramps woud be demanding of him. I can tell you sitting around in his own filth and doing nothing to help himself is creating an unreasonable demand on your boyfriend.
There are MANY ways to help someone. Putting your life on hold, and being a slave to a slob is not one of them.
Gather some information about assisted living and nursing homes. Sit down with your fiance and go over all the options. You sound both knowledgable and compassionate. Also, being in social work will help. Come up with a time line for changes and stick to it. This will help his grandfather get used to the idea of change.
If your fiance refuses, you have bigger problems that the grungy grandpa.
Good luck...this is one of the most complex scenarios I have seen in the forum.
To paraphrase Gladys Knight in "Midnight Train to Georgia," would you rather live in his world than live without him in yours? If that's the case -- and until he makes a decision how and where to live the rest of his life -- you better get used to the baggage. Stubborn grandfather, barnyard-style house, and everything else you didn't think was so bad two years ago when you met him in cyberspace.
In a way, I don't blame you for falling in love with him. He sounds like a terrific man with a heart bigger than he is. Now you're having doubts about jumping the broom, daunted by the prospect your lot might not change for a while, and taking a plunge into a sea of uncertainty if your own dreams have to be deferred.
In Spanish, there's a saying for those wishing to get married but don't have a nest of their own yet: "El casado casa quiere." In other words, married people need their own house. Grandpa's stubbornness is designed to let you know you're just a guest -- or some sort of interloper who doesn't want to hit the road. Your fiance seems to be stuck in a symbiotic relationship with him. But Instead of riding into the sunset with the woman of his dreams it's a lot easier to bring her in, expect her to help with the caregiving because "you're as good as married," and put up with all kinds of BS until he's ready to prioritize.
It takes two to tango baby, and Love isn't the only reason you got engaged. You want to build a life together, have children, share warm and fuzzy feelings with a best friend and makes you do silly things.
He's a good man, but you can't go on living like that forever. I'd take him out to dinner and talk about how you both feel about this situation and what you can do together to improve it. ... Sometimes men need a little encouragement from a woman who's not afraid of take charge. If he respects your opinion, he'll listen. If he feels like you're nagging, don't be surprised if he wants to take a break from the relationship. ... Be gentle with him.
-- Ed
You want children and a clean, well functioning home? Ain't gonna happen here, honey. Get yourself disentangled from this disfunctioning household if you want to meet your goals.
You are afraid that if you marry you will be taking care of Grandfather and then, because of the difference in your ages, be taking care of your husband? Yup. That is a highly likely scenario.
You resent them now a little bit? That is nothing to how the resentment will build if you let yourself be trapped in this situation.
Your fiancee withheld significant information from you when you first met (online)? Ask yourself if that is a characteristic you want in the father of your children.
This man cannot afford to live rent-free, pay only utilities and food, and cannot maintain a house in livable condition? He is sponsoring you financially now -- what did he use that money for before he met you? Not fixing the plumbing, that's clear. So how will he suddenly be able to afford to pay mortgage payments on his own home, pay taxes, pay utilities, buy food, and support you and children? Even when you work, is that going to make enough difference? Do you love him enough to be willing to live in poverty? You see what his current standard of living is like.
There is not escaping -- unless you choose to escape.
I don't know much about the conditions on Visas. You are here under someone's financial sponsorship. Can you get a work Visa? Can you apply for citizenship (and do you want to)? Is going home and starting life there with your education a viable option for you?
You sound like a very logical, intelligent, observant person. You can surely make your own way in life. Maybe there are technicalities that will be hurdles for you to start with, but you have youth, vitality, and intelligence on your side. You'll make it.
Now that I know how old you are, I am going to give you the same advice I give all my grandchildren: Do not marry (or live with someone) until you have supported yourself for at least a year. Learn to be independent before you become interdependent.
You are very wise to be questioning your future in this situation. Best of luck to you as you sort this out.
And why is the house falling down around them? If grandson has been living there for 10 years, why haven't repairs been made? Good for him about the heating and cooling. But that is not enough. If he is paying rent, he could withhold rent to bring the plumbing up to code. If he isn't paying rent, why isn't he contributing to the upkeep where he is living? Grandfather is too cheap (or demented) to buy soap and toothpaste? Surely Grandson can supply those things. There are aspects of this picture that are very puzzling. I know that we don't have all the details.
Grandfather is a slob. Maybe he has been all his life, and maybe this is new health-related behavior. Grandson has a job and a fiancee and is trying to have a life. OK. How about hiring a cleaning service?
I think Grandson should start living up to the spirit of the promise to "take care" of his grandfather. When he was younger and grandfather was healthy but loney, it meant stopping by to keep him company. Then it meant helping with the yardwork. Those were things Grandson could do. Great. But as the needs increased, I think Grandson simply got in over his head. No shame in that. We are not born knowing how to care for the elderly. But to honor that promise to his wonderful grandmother, I think it is time to bring in professionals who are trained in dealing with the specific issues Grandfather needs help with.
I would be proud if any of my grandchildren worked so hard to honor a promise they made to me. I realy would. But I would be crushed to see any of them do it in a way that interfered with living their own lives to the fullest. I hope they all know me well enough to understand I would never wish for that.
I guess this isn't any advice for you, stl. It is just another perspective to consider.
Hey bobbie I said boat...lol!
You already know that if you marry into this situation you will have a lot of stress over it and it will affect your marriage.
naheaton has it right.
to me it sounds like the poor grandfather has dementia and is somewhat of a hoarder.
My mom was doing stuff like that... house was in shambles, hoarded useless things, etc etc when I intervened in 04. I had no idea that she was in such trouble. She was angry and mean at that time and it was no walk in the park to figure out what to do and how to do it.
For you and your sweetheart to have any kind of healthy future, it must be the two of you first.
So many times someone, on their deathbed, will elicit a promise that simply cannot be kept.
This is one of those times.
I am so sorry that you are getting sucked into what I call the 'vortex of dementia'. I think that for someone like your sweetheart, it is like the frog in the frying pan. you don't realize how bad it has become until you see it through someone else's eyes. It just gets worse and worse until you are trapped.
good luck and keep posting.
wow to you too rojones, what a mess that is.
Abuse is abuse and not to be tolerated. Call Adult protective Services on the sly and see what can be done to assist the parents in their home. You may be able to help and get them assistance so the daughter can move on down the road and not spend her time screaming and scaring her parents. So wrong on so many levels and more prevalent than anyone could even imagine.
Letting off steam is one thing but what she is doing is not venting, it's abuse.
good luck to you too.
lovbob
well, now my friend has seen my actions with parents and now has started a cold war with me and refuses to speak to me and has been trying to damage my credibility and reputation with parents by making up lies, claiming false accusations regarding theft, etc..luckily, her parents have defended me to her and know that they are all lies...it has escalated to a very ugly situation in the house...
I am torn now, because I am very concerned about the welfare of her parents if I was to leave the home, since I feel like I am being bullied and pushed out forcibly...if left with daughter, i worry if they will be alright...i cannot stand to see them hurt and know this is how they are to spend their last years on earth...they are such a beautiful couple and like my own parents...
You can influence. You can suggest. You can educate. But ultimately the only person whose behavior you can control is you. I think if you read through your own posts tomorrow or next week you will see that you have already made up your mind about some things. Or maybe I'm wrong and you are just venting. Try it in a few days and see what you think.
PS. Grandfather may "slip away" within the year or in fifteen years. Keep that in mind.