Despite all I do to entertain and take care of all her needs, mom's consistently negative and repetitive. Sometimes I yell. Am I abusive?

I mean to say I could have had mom taken just for needing to vent!!! I sed almost sed something only remotely true to try to get help.
anyway...thank goodness for internet how did the previous do it without, it can keep us connected and informed

I just wanna clarify my statement earlier about asking social services to help me get some counseling....They said because technically my status is "I choose not to join workforce" therefore no benefit unless in crisis...harm self mode! SO I said ok I am in crisis...then sed if you really mean that the consequence is we will intervine with mother! THE SYSTEM SUCKS!

youll have the patience of a saint as you begin to realize how scared and helpless the patient is in their compromised state.
speaking of saints, didja see the pope said that if non believers just do good they can probably go to heaven? what makes that smoking bucket, drag queen think non believers would want to join his cootie platoon? what an ego..

yes i have always wondered what she says when she goes to adult daycare. She is always telling me that we have no food, no clothes, no socks. Freezer and cupboard are full, plenty of clothes in closet and in drawer. One time senior service came to my house because caregiver said that I didn't buy groceries. Well it turned out I didn't buy groceries the caregiver wanted LOL. I am normally extra extra patient but sometimes it just does get to you. Plus I'm sure the stress of doing job searches, dealing with endless problems of no shows of homecare doesn't help situation either.

I say it is not abusive we all have done it, heck they did it to us...I holler at ma sometimes but I sure do beat myself up for it...I always tell her "I am sorry and she didn't deserve that, it is me, I am just frustrated.

if you are feeling it a little too much yelling or may become a worse problem then by all means keep tabs on it...and keep working it out here and get a counselor there in person...
it is very touchy tho....I reached out to social services once when I felt so low that I mite be harmful to myself , they warned if I make that statement they will take ma from me so do be careful!!
LOVE N STRENGTH...

GiGi11 I can relate to your experience. Both of my parents are negative. My father loves to play the games but has been that way all his life. His behavior is consistent with narcissistic disorder according to my therapist. It seams you have found the right response "detachment" which is hard. My tradition is Christianity, which doesn't mean that tough love is wrong and detachment is a healthy choice. It keeps you safe within the relationship so that you can be the loving person to yourself and other relationships in your life. I hope you can find the support you need to not get hooked in to the mind games.

just like in my household my parents were always yelling thats how they communicated. It was normal so after a period of time you just get used to it. When I was taking care of my father and mother I had to raise my voice. To get my father on blood pressure pills I had to take him to doctor with my sister and basically had to sit on him to keep him in the doctors office because he didn't want to be there. I have always done the best I can for my both my parents. I try to keep my mother happy but it seems nighttime is the worst. My biggest obstacle is homecare but that will be another question for discussion LOL. Another problem is I have to raise my voice because really she should get a hearing aid. Im usually good at calming her just wish my brother had that same asset.

Thank you for these great great comments.....we did go through a few repetitive episodes that lasted over 7 weeks and mom does NOT have Alzheimers so there just seemed no way of turning it off. But I am improving and beginning to actually find it rather humorous. And the negativity, well, that is harder because I dont feel she could have it any better. Once in a while it would be nice if she said something positive but I am just letting it go...it aint gonna happen.

Sometimes a caregiver just needs a day off! They are tired, overworked, worn out, unappreciated, severely criticized unfairly and many times die before the person being cared for. Unless anyone has ever actually done caregiving and for someone who is very difficult to care for, they should reserve comment. Or even better, offer to lend a hand to an overtired caregiver by giving them a break.

Fortunately, I have a husband that is very proactive with 92 year old dad’s care. Dad has dementia related to a stroke that he had 9 years ago. And, yes, I can idenify with having a “short fuse” at times and attempting to bite my tongue off after having “words” with dad. (He likes to go “shopping” in my house if he thinks my husband or me are not watching him, and he hoards every inch of his room with clutter.) I do leave notes next to items that I don’t want him to “snarl” away into his room, but over and over although he reads the notes back to me, he says, “Oh, I didn’t know that was your stuff,” he continues his lifelong “hobby” of hoarding behavior. My husband has the patience of a saint: He has an online business, and he had customers e-mailing him asking, “Where is my package?” And, he doesn’t even get the least bit aggravated when he finds the un-mailed item that dad snagged in dad’s room.
Dad was accustomed to my deceased mother waiting on him hand and foot, and he attempts to pull the, “You’re suppose to take care of me act,” several times a day on ME. Dad has had more physical and occupational therapy than anyone can ever imagine. As soon as the therapists are finished and document that he has met his potential with dad walking by himself using a walker, he tells me that he is “crippled” and cannot do anything for himself. I have “nanny cams” all over my house and have recorded dad walking with his “grabber stick” as if it were a cane both inside and outside of the house. Then, after the therapist(s) are finished with his “full PT and OT therapy,” dad becomes a “cripple” again, and he wants me to help LIFT him out of a lift chair by pretending that “it stopped working.” (I’m attempting to keep my weight above 100 lbs. at a height of 5’6 foot and dad is 6’1 foot and quickly approaching 200 lbs.) Please Note: I am not anorexic nor is my weight loss related to dad: It is the result of a patient assault that back in 2005 while working as a RN at the largest trauma hospital in Tampa, FL. This incident resulted in me having total TMJ surgery (jaw replaced), C-5 vertabrae replacement, and muscle spasms that requires daily medication for the remainder of my life. (I only received 2 months of compensation from the work related hospital injury, had a negligent attorney (it took him 7 years to even get to mediation), and he advised and threatened me under duress to sign the legal papers prior to and after the mediation discussion, or that that this particular hospital would freeze any assets that I had available: This made me fear that I wouldn’t even have access to any money for the care of my dad.)
However, everyone, hang in there! I have learned that no matter what situation that you are in with an aging parent that you can bet that someone else is either going through the same circumstances or even worse! (I attempt to count my blessings everyday!)
I encourage everyone to hand in there!

Anais, good for you. That's how we all WANT to behave.

Different circumstances cause different outcomes. Those of us who grew up in noisy yelling households 1) are used to yelling and aren't quite so sensitive to it and 2) never had role models for doing anything different.

All of us do the best we can.

We all know what it feels like to have someone raise their voice for whatever reason, the point is no one is perfect and of course we would not to want anyone to feel bad but just because someone is frustrated and human and raises their voice idoes not make them an abusive monster, nor does stuffing frustration inside make them any better, it has to come out somewhere and sometimes that is not pretty and worse.

In addition to helping to care for my Father, I also am a caregiver to my husband who has Stage4 head and neck cancer..I just know the feeling when someone raises their voice to me for any reason, why would I do it to someone else..but that is just me.

Well, if I put myself in my mother's shoes for the times she raised me, she would not be in a good place. My mother hit me and yelled at me when I was a kid, I do not do the same to her now that she needs help. I was a child, she is an adult with cognitive decline, there is a difference. Also, when you are the sole caregiver, I'll bet you will raise your voice, unless you are the reincarnation of Mother Theresa.

I share responsibility of caring for my Dad..never have I raised my voice to him..I think of all the time and patience in raising me and I am sure that there were times that were frustrating to him..I have put myself in his shoes.

Amen, jeannegibbs.

And it truly is not abuse because the definition of abuse, according to Wikipedia, is:

"Abuse is the improper usage or treatment for a bad purpose, often to unfairly or improperly gain benefit. Abuse can come in many forms, such as: physical or verbal maltreatment, injury, sexual assault, violation, rape, unjust practices; wrongful practice or custom; offense; crime, or otherwise verbal aggression."

That first sentence makes it clear why the word ends in '-use.'

Sometimes abuse is delivered via verbal aggression.
But not all verbal aggression is abuse.
Sometimes it is just frustration.

Ya know, I think we throw the term "abuse" around much too freely, and that minimizes its meaning where it truly does apply.

Show me the parent who has never "yelled" at a kid in frustration. Show me a 24/7 family caregiver who has never yelled or spoke harshly to the loved one being cared for. I suspect that there are very few people who qualify. Does that mean nearly all parents and nearly all caregivers are abusive? Hardly!

Saying that the father who is forcing sex on his son or daughter and the mother who looks the other way are "abusive" and that the parent who loses her temper and yells is "abusive" is absurd. Not all regrettable behavior, not all imperfect behavior is "abusive."

Yelling at an elderly person for behavior he or she may not be able to control is not a good thing. It is not Best Practice. It is not productive or helpful. It should not be done. But to label the caregiver as abusive is totally inappropriate, in my mind.

Let us not totally water down the meaning of a serviceable word like "abuse."

sounds like you just need some medical marijuana. If you don't smoke then try edibles. They don't make you "high", just makes everyone's negativity seem like not such a big deal. When you cant alter the way they think at least yo can alter the way you think and deal with it. I am the most loving caring & patient caregiver ever and im not on drugs I just use an herb that god put here for us to use for a reason and that reason is...times like these.

Thank you for this post. It is always so easy to judge from the outside. I know that when I was living 24 hours a day taking care of mom with Alzheimer's, taking care of a family with a pre-teen and a teen, taking care of a demanding husband along with a sister in denial and an elderly father who's wife was slipping away slowly into the shadow world of dementia and Alzheimer's that sometimes I lost it. I lost it because I cared to the point of running myself ragged. I lost it because I was the point person, the person who said, 'the buck stops here', and the person who made the hard decisions. I admit that sometimes I lost it and I feel guilty but I was the one who always made sure that mom was properly fed, that she was clean, that she lived in a house with beautiful light with her bible by her side, her rosary in her hand and her photos on the table. I made sure that when she forgot who she was that we allowed her to become her new self and feel loved. I lost it sometimes but just like you, I picked myself up and started again. I promised to do it better the next time and do it with love. Next time when you slip and fall remember that tomorrow you have another chance to do it better with love...

I had never heard of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), which was mentioned above. So, I looked it up "ODD in adults" on the internet. One source said that children have ODD, but if the behavior doesn't resolve by adulthood it is called a personality disorder. Same horse, just a different name. It also said that children, who have ADD/ADHD often develop ODD. The frustration from the learning disability becomes defiant behavior. Then as adults, with a personality disorder, they often have trouble keeping a job. Very interesting what you can learn on this website and the internet!

HUMAN is the key word here. We all have our own limits too. And talk is cheap - unless I take my own mom kicking and screaming to an adult daycare, it isn't going to happen because I will not force her to do something that in her own mind may finally push her over the edge. Or any other type of activity that she's not ready for. In the meantime, I get up and start over again. Luckily now I have help so it eases the pressure on both of us.

I've done a lot more yelling in the past, during what I call the "hellish years" when mom was absolutely like someone with oppositional defiant disorder, combined with a child in the terrible twos and a rebellious, hateful teenager. Actually, she was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, nice and sweet and appreciative and funny one moment and then like someone flipped a switch, and for no apparent reason except for something going on in her head, she would become ODD, terrible twos and rebellious teenager all in one, and be impossible to deal with, and I never knew what I was going to get. Which one was going to walk into the kitchen in the morning? Which one was going to come back out of the bathroom? Fighting me because she didn't want me to take away her diaper which was full of poop. Telling me "You never do ANYTHING for me!" anytime she didn't get her way. Dismissing me like I was just a supreme annoyance to her when I asked her to do or to not do something, no matter how nicely I asked.

When her doctor added Resperidone to her already large arsenal of namenda, donepezil, and mirtazapine and lexapro, and blood pressure, thyroid, and heart meds, things improved greatly. That, and learning to be proactive, and when I anticipated a storm, to address it in advance with love and firmness, putting my hands on her arms and looking right in her face and saying, "Mom, I love you very much. (she often looks totally, pleasantly surprised, even says, "Really? Oh, that's wonderful!" and her demeanor softens) and then I say, "Because I love you, I am here taking care of you. I'm not trying to hurt you or take anything away from you. I'm trying to help you. So, please, do not fight me. Please do what I ask you to do. OK?" Usually by that point she agrees and cooperates with me. This is on my good days. Other days, I'm too tired or stressed and I still get sucked into the storm and I yell. Or on days when talking with her like I just described does absolutely no good, I have found that an extremely firm, authoritative (which does not come naturally for me) "DO NOT FIGHT ME!" gets through to her and she calms down and cooperates. And sometimes you just HAVE TO have cooperation, like when she is about to drink from the "Wet Ones" container, or when she is about to feed the dog something that would be toxic for her (sigh, I now no longer have chocolate or raisins in the house for that reason), or when she is about to pour her entire glass of orange juice onto her plate full of dinner which I just prepared and which we don't have any more of, or which I am too tired to cook any more of, or when she continues walking on the carpet after I have noticed that she has stepped in dog poop, or when she refuses to let me take off her shoes that have dog poop on them and is now trying to kick me with them, or when I need to get a poopy diaper off her before it gets all over her, and her clothes, and the floor, etc., etc., etc., and I know it is just going to be another titanic battle to get her to take a shower or change her clothes after that.

I feel terrible when I have been snappy, or have yelled at her in anger, and I always try to apologize to her before she goes to bed, if not sooner, (she usually does n ot remember that I yelled, but I still apologize anyway). But I do not feel bad at all when I have had to use the firm, authoritative, even loud tone. I'm sure she used that same tone with me many times in my childhood. I know she even yelled a lot. I remember once she apologized for getting mad and yelling at me, and I said, "That's ok, mom, I'm used to it.", and she looked stunned. And she was a good mom, and I was a good kid. Good parents lose it and yell at their kids sometimes, so, maybe we should go easier on ourselves if we do the same, especially when we remember all that we are dealing with.

Living with someone who is negative AND repetitive can be tough to take. I don't think raising your voice and yelling every once in a while makes you abusive.....we are only human and we all have limits! I agree that a couple of weeks to a month will be good for you. You need some ME time. I always appreciate the time I get away from caregiving....when I feel like I can get some of my life back and not have to answer the same questions over and over...it can be maddening. My brother doesn't seem to understand that I need at least two weeks to feel like myself again...he knows how mom is....he should understand. The last time he wanted to bring mom back after six days I told him another week would be great....his answer...because I am a homemaker...."what do you do all day?" I did get that extra week and I appreciated every second of it! Hang in there, everyone!

Elders can be terribly frustrating to caregivers....yelling can happen.
It might be construed as abusive....IF it keeps happening, IF it causes harm to the elder...there are qualifiers.

Elders also can be abusive to their caregivers.
Physically and verbally.
But, there are currently no protections for caregivers who are being abused by elders in their care.
Even protective services will perceive and handle that as abuse of the elder.
That's what we were told.
The only recourse was to get our elder removed from our home.
...if you are smart, you get them moved to a facility withOUT involving protective services.

In cases where caregivers are running short on energy, resources, and ability to cope with the behaviors of their elders, it is TIME to find help.
Help that comes into the home, or, move that elder to another relatives or a facility that can handle the care load.

24/7 caregiving is terribly hard, even when the elder is kinda doing their own care--all the little nuances that cause your household and you, to get disrupted, off-kilter, etc.---you stay awake too many hours, lose sleep, cannot lifet/carry/transfer/cleanup, etc. as well as you used to, and the load brought by an elder in the home increases that.
When it starts impacting your health, or causing you to become financially disabled, it is PAST time to find the elder a better place to stay--it means you have gone beyond your capabilities.
No harm, no foul, no sin, for reaching one's limits--we're all human, and have limits. Going beyond one's limits for too long, is a poor way to be a martyr, and serves no one well.
Get some help!!!

What if, in the thermostat issue, for instance, teh elder cannot manage operating it properly, so, instruct them "This is complicated. PLEASE ask for help adjusting the thermostat."
That identifies the issue, and tells her what you want her to do in positive terms.
[[just the facts, ma'am]]
Of course, she might still try to adjust it.
But many elders respond to being told that something is complicated- [-these new electronics can be so difficult!!]

If she continues to mess with it, you may need to get a clear box that mounts over the thermostat, which prevents her changing it. Many businesses, hospitals do this. We found one at Home Depot, I think, for less than $20, and it was an easy installation. Has saved some real hassles.

Mom avoided, voluntarily, operating the washing machine--she simply couldn't figure it out, and, it was too hard for her to get to---aside from the fact that she has avoided doing her own laundry for decades...

Stoves, heating systems, etc. all need to be guarded against an elder's potential for injury or damage. Mom caused a stove fire here...
I thot all it did was make a mess...but, it caused wiring shorts that have been consistently costing between $10 and $20 / month in phantom loads--we didn't find out until we had the landlord remove the stove--I knew it was not working quite right, but, didn't realize how badly, until we got a couple small burners to use, instead.
An elder might want to "fend for themselves" but caregivers MUST continually reassess the elder's level of ability to do so. IF at any time, they are too confused, or make mistakes that lead to dangerous consequences, they should probably NOT be using whatever system that is.

I'm with Madeaa. If we're name-calling, swearing, threatening, or ridiculing the elderly person, then yes, it's abuse. Just yelling without damaging the other's emotional well-being is not abuse. We caregivers have enough stress, guilt and anxiety about our situations without adding to the list of stuff to feel bad about.

If I yell at my Dad to sit down before he falls down, it's not abuse. He doesn't remember that he is too weak to walk and I'm not going to launch a discussion about the pros and cons of using his wheel chair. Or ask for his logical input! Or wait to see if he falls!

somewhere along the line, possibly from reading a lot , ive learned to deal with moms delusional behavior without getting a bit upset. oh the stress is still there but ive learned that reasoning with her is pointless. were all hopefully learning something every day. if she says there is no ceiling in her room i just tell her it isnt going to rain tonight so all will be fine. all the elder wants is reassurance, debating is futile and will melt your brain. everything ive ever done in my life was difficult. why should this be any different?

I hear you, Donna1944. My mom as well has been a lifelong worrier, caretaker and down about everything. I think much of her present attitude is also part of her personality as well as her dementia. When we do raise our voices, I often carry the guilt and bad feelings with me for days when she has long forgotten our disagreement. It affects me physically. I wish I had the ability to forget those things as easily as she does.

I'm in the boat with krusso, mom is hearing impaired, going for tests soon, hoping they can help. She has ALWAYS been negative. I used to tease her and say "the sky is falling, Mom". She knew what I meant. Lately she wrote me a letter expressing her feelings that she wasn't loved. I listened quietly and then asked her "mom when we argue and yell at each other, do you feel like I don't love you?". To my amazement she said "no, we've always been able to speak our mind and not hold a grudge". Thank God for that! She grieves over not having my brother show any love or recognition of her and sometimes says "my kids". ( don't love me, etc.) but if I question her she says, didn't mean you. But it hurts me when she tells others her kids don't love her. She has been through a terrible time over the last year and is in assistant living near me, FINALLY. And she is just the last couple weeks shown a remarkable improvement in her negative attitude. Saying she is making a new friend, etc. I suggest talking about the yelling and explaining that you don't want to be mean, but you get frustrated and at a loss as to how to reach her , but you still love her. I told mom one day at the retirement home "I've got to go, you are making me crazy". She said "well, you are making me crazy too.". We just smiled at each other and I left after doing all I had come to do. (she didn't remember it the next day.)

I know 110% how you feel. We are caring for parents who are mean and verbally abusive. Sometimes I yell too. But it is considered elder abuse. Believe me, i know. My brother yelled at our Mom (and name calling). it was awful. I finally got him out of the house last year, but Mom let him come back. He assaulted me last month. I filed a TRO. He called APS and said I emotionally and physically abuse her. Yelling constitutes abuse (though I was cleared). Walk away. It is best for you and best for your relationship.