I am so fed up. In many ways, I am the luckiest girl alive. I have a guy who will rope the moon if I asked and does everything in the world to make me happy.
And in some important ways, I can’t imagine anyone unluckier than me.
I don’t know how I ended up 49yo, unable to work earlier because of two autistic kids, and then after a good career, now unable to work because of two 80 yo parents who decided they’d like to fill the shoes my kids left empty except they’re not my kids and they’re not cute.
Between ten specialists for dad, and three for mom, breaking up their fights nonstop both physical and verbal, driving around hunting down an old man who keeps taking off after fights expecting I’ll find him, and neither of them understanding a thing doctors tell them so I have to drive them to every appointment and be there for EVERYTHING… I feel like I’m going to die soon if I continue doing this.
Just 2.5 years ago, I moved them to me in NV from CA because my dad was on oxygen 24 hours per day and admitted to the hospital constantly due to CHF — a condition he’d apparently had for ten years except he didn’t understand when he was diagnosed, so I didn’t know for ten years until I finally went to a cardiology appointment with him. I visited often enough when I lived 7-8 hours away but only for a few days at a time because it’s draining being around their fighting. I didn’t even realize the depth of how he had deteriorated mentally as well.
In one month, I sold off their lives and listed their house and moved them closer to me because I KNEW my dad was going to die and if that happened, my mom would likely dig in and refuse to move.
I got them their new place, found every reputable specialist in NV, including getting him into the Cleveland Clinic for his neurological issues, and began to manage his plethora of fatal health problems and managed their entire lives.
And he got better. He got better and didn’t die, because Mom and I dedicated everything to getting him better despite the odds, and he lived. The better he got, the worse he became as a person. At least if he couldn’t breathe well — he was in bed and quiet.
The level of energy these two have to battle it out is unbelievable. Without going into detail, I’ll just say it’s bad. And somewhere along the way in the last two decades, these two feel they need to tell me every detail of how awful the other one is. In the last two years, it’s almost like they tell me just to see if I’ll side with the one doing the tattling. (And in 99% of the case, it’s my dad who is completely wrong and beyond reasoning, but only he doesn’t see it.)
I do more than enough.
Every single thing they need, I have to find and make happen. I read every one of their mail and every time my dad decides he found a better deal for his insurance or a car loan or a mortgage, I’m the one who has to clean it up. Their cell phones act up - call me. Their TVs don’t work - call me. iPads die — call me. Got a phone call — tell the caller to call me. Drug store claims some drug isn’t available — “call my daughter.” It’s me for everything except grocery shopping.
This isn’t a life. They’ve taken my life hostage and my life with my guy and my dogs….it just happens when I have moments leftover.
My heart beats out of my chest, and my pulse is so wild you can see it in my neck. I feel like I can’t breathe. I ended up having two stents put in due to 100% blockage and have been diagnosed with diabetes.
Tonight, I was just screaming and screaming at my dad after having found him walking the streets going nowhere after they duked it out, when I was called to find him — and felt like something burst in my head and for a couple of hours, the eyesight in my right eye had a white flash in it. I’m OK now but can’t catch my breath.
I am falling apart and at this rate they will outlive me. I never agreed to give them my whole life. I shouldn’t have to.
Parents just aren’t supposed to be like this.
Ok I hope you had that visual thing checked out and didn't just write it off to stress...b/c it could have been any number of things, and it's definitely a warning sign that all is not well with you!
You were the good daughter who took care of her parents. Kudos to you for caring so much for them (I didn't say ABOUT them for a reason).
Now it's time to step away.
They don't LIVE with you, so that part is done.
They fight b/c that's the marriage dynamic they have always had and always will. My inlaws battled like they were in a frickin war all the time. MIL hated FIL so much it was palpable. They finally divorced in after 42 years of vitriol & hate.
FIL died 17 years ago but MIL acts like he's still here, and she is as angry today as she was the day something 'bad' happened. THAT'S no way to live. And it is NOT the kids' responsibility to make it be OK. Bet your mom will be the same when your dad passes.
I would change my phone number and get a cheap 'burner' type cell phone to use to call them and only give them that number. Then DON'T answer it or call them unless you can handle it.
They're in some kind of NH? Or do they live alone? Either way, *you* need to get out of the CG business!! Like, yesterday!
If they live in a NH, the staff there should be handling a lot of this. If they live independently, hire a couple of thick skinned CG's and let them deal with your folks. Trust me, an employee is much less invested emotionally and the fighting and such may ramp down around 'strangers'.
Quit chasing your dad down when he 'runs away'. Call the police. Refuse to pick him up. I think your folks are trying to outdo each other for the 'worst life ever' award. (Sorry, but that belongs to MY MIL. )
Once you've hired help--cut down any contact with them to a 2 hr window once a week. It will be tough, but at this rate, you will die long before they do. I assume there are no siblings around? All of this is on you--rather, you took it on you. Now give it back.
Another alternative, if finances aren't an issue (And I am aware that they usually are) is to split them up into separate living places. Betcha they wouldn't go for that---but sometimes it's the best option.
There's a pretty famous saying on this site: 'No' is a complete sentence.
Wishing you the best--keep coming back and you will find so much support in this.
The only solution is placement and making peace with the fact that you are not a superhero. You cannot change them any more than you can cure them. It’s sad, it’s not fair, and they won’t like it, but the reality is they need more help than you can provide, and you are at the end of your rope.
It’s “putting your big girl pants on” time and doing what needs to be done. Hard decisions are never easy, but there’s no two ways about it.
You need to make peace with it. You gave it your all, and now it’s time you get something back.
Best of luck to you.
Tonight, I was just screaming and screaming at my dad after having found him walking the streets going nowhere after they duked it out, when I was called to find him — and felt like something burst in my head and for a couple of hours, the eyesight in my right eye had a white flash in it. I’m OK now but can’t catch my breath."
Why don't you think it's time for placement?
Next, take a deep breath. You are not alone in this. Many, if not most, caregivers of family members/friends struggle with the issues of placing people in homes, assisted living, long term care. But, it is obvious this will be the best solution for you at this point given what you have described.
Keep us updated, we're all in this together and I've certainly learned many things I did not know about here, and this is my second stint as a caregiver! Knowledge shared is knowledge gained.
PS-My father was not a good parent. So glad his much younger third wife is probably dealing with his 85 year old rants! Hahahahahaha!
Whatever the situation is with your parents, their actions show that they don't give a crap about you. Sorry, it happens and is more common then we can imagine.
You need to get some boundaries in place and enforce them, because your life actually depends on it.
I would start by calling the police when they duke it out. They need to face the consequences for domestic violence. You will see things change if you do this. Oh, don't go to their rescue when you do this. They will be court ordered to get counseling. My dads dad had to go to AA, get anger management counseling and do community service. It stopped the fights and everyone wishes they would have called the police sooner. You need to tell them you don't want to hear it and to grow up or get away from one another. Stop chasing him down and don't listen to her boohooing because they duked it out again. 911 every single time.
I would change my number and not give it to them. Difficult, yes, necessary, OH YES! They can do whatever they want and you put up with it and bail them out. Stop.
I get so frustrated when I see old country cultures being used as an excuse for behavior. Quite frankly, if that's what they wanted, should have stayed in the old country. In the USA you go to jail for hitting your spouse and people don't look the other way when it's happening.
What happened to you could very well be high blood pressure causing retinal separation or something much more dangerous to your health, like a mini stroke.
I know it is easier said then done but, they are killing you and if you are dead, then what are they going to do. Pretend you are there and let them deal with the consequences of their crap choices before you end up in a box.
They're living independently. Therefore it is on them to contact Comcast, Verizon, their utility people. As far as their personal conflict and fighting, you're not a marriage counselor.
Even for Koreans, they are going way off the edge here. I bet this wouldn't be ok even in Korea. Which, you know, if they're citizens they can go back to.
It's never too late to set boundaries. And you have to for your health. Also your marriage.
You must accept you are not going to fix them.
I originally found this site when I felt like a hostage (a very mini version of your tale!). I described it as being a hostage on a bus, being driven against my advice, towards a cliff, or at the least a dark boggy patch of dangerous road.
It took much thought, much self-exanination, a few hard talking Doctors & 2 councillors before the penny dropped.
I could get off the bus.
I just needed to stand up. Say stop. Get off.
And from the sidelines - wow - what a better place to be! I can be of better use when the crashes happen, to get other help.
So let's be real. The first step. Your folks are no longer independent. Do you agree?
They didn't take over your life. You took over their lives. You made the decision to move them closer to you partly to manage your father's care, and partly to ensure that later you would be able to control your mother.
The point is that you were the one who decided you wanted control. They didn't stop you, I agree (and they could have done. They could have refused.), but all of the decisions have been yours.
So recognising that, what decisions could you make now that would allow you to step back from so much daily direct involvement in their relationship? It seems to be the stress and conflict of the drama they play out for you that's having the worst effect on you, yes?
Contrary to what I make it sound like in my original post, (1) they were not bad parents to me growing up, all things considered; and (2) I actually don’t regret moving them here to manage their care. Even doing everything for them is not altogether torture for me in that giving them a few full-time years of my life to ensure a comfortable ending is still worthwhile to me. I’m lucky to be able to do that. I know that.
It’s that they hate each other and live off this drama that kills me. It’s that they have zero qualms about involving me in this drama of theirs, letting — no, demanding and forcing — their daughter witness the ugliness and misery they cause each other at the end of their lives that just…rots me. It’s truly like a black mold that just spreads and I hate it. That is what I feel “parents” shouldn’t do. I hate that my parents do this and I hate that I let it get this close to us.
I have asked and begged to be left out of it. It isn’t that I don’t care that my dad took off again or that they had a blowout fight but I do not want to be involved in that part. I don’t want to know and if they can’t handle their own tempers to ensure they live peacefully, they should deal with the repercussions of that on their own too. I’m treated like I’m savage and callous - but they don’t understand I really cannot operate like this.
I’ve explained that my life and my relationship with my husband are so peaceful and zen BY CHOICE, and that I can’t deal with the constant animosity they bring into it. It causes chaos in my own household (because it affects me) and it causes me embarrassment that my parents are living out the end of their lives like this. My sister and I live petrified that I will turn out like this.
Because this part comes with the other parts I willingly manage, and like you said, it was my decision when I knew their relationship was not great when I moved them here (since they involved me in that part then, too, though in my defense, I had no idea to what extent or frequency this happened!), I do regret my decision….now. I’m not entirely sure living out my life with regret for not having done more for them in life, after they’re gone, would have been more unbearable than having them infect my life so directly and constantly now.
The only thing you have control over is your own behavior.
It sounds as though they need to be separated for everyone's good. Your father likely needs more care than he can get at home.
How you make that happen is what you need to figure out. A social admit to the hospital? Getting both, separately to a geriatric psychiatrist who can advise on medication, placement? Grabbing the opportunity at the next ER visit to force rehab and placement?
Thanks. They’re US citizens now and have been for decades, so that’s out. Haha.
Doing everything for them is not a big issue for me, though sometimes I find it irritating.
There are two distinct parts I just cannot stand.
(1) It’s the dynamics of their awful, angry relationship that affects me. It’s just unbelievable to me that at 80 years of life with death up right ahead, knowing one of them may not wake up tomorrow and that would not be surprising — this is how they want to spend what could be their last day of life. How sad for them…and how pitiful for me to watch it firsthand.
(2) My dad is just mentally unfit. He’s a well-educated MBA man who worked to the high ranks at a US conglomerate before retiring and he’s deteriorated to making no sense and can’t process what he hears be it in English or Korean. Can’t hear that well and what he does hear, he can’t process. (They’re concluding its vascular dementia, but specifically not Alzheimer’s, which has been ruled out.) And everyone can see it EXCEPT HIM. He’ll still actually tell me he knows better or he doesn’t need the likes of me, etc. unaware he can’t do anything for himself.
Worse, he creates more work for me having to undo these ridiculous scams he falls for — Cheaper Medicare! Better refinancing rates! Save money with solar! Free HBO! — and so forth. All the calls and paperwork I have to do for them doesn’t anger me, but when he MAKES trouble… I just get enraged. And he’s not even apologetic; he says, “What’s the big deal? Call and cancel it, and stop acting like you’re doing something extraordinary!”
Everything else, meh — I’ll live. I make all the food they love and have them over or deliver it, and go out to dinner with them every week. I take them out to social activities they like and my husband is a good sport about going with us. When they have to drive a ways to meet friends and it’s nighttime, we drive them there and find something to do for five hours so they can have fun. They need only get dressed and wait for me on the days we have appointments and attend; they don’t need to listen to one thing the doctors say or follow up with a single item — I do it all. Literally, all they have to do is not create chaos and I’m willing to go to the ends of the earth to make their last years easy for them, but it’s like they’re hellbent on sending me off first!
And now, just for kicks, my dad’s sister moved here and I have had to help her too. But she’s single and lives a quieter life than even I do, so it’s not that bad, but sheesh.
There are two distinct parts I just cannot stand."
As someone already wrote, you are well on your way to becoming a statistic.
As Isthisrealyreal wrote: "you are in the fast track to become a statistic." Sounds like you are okay with this? If not, then you need to start making changes ASAP. People have given you ideas.
Are you going to take that first step?
My mom threatened to for years, and then actually did call the police. Once.
Three patrol cars came and busted down the garage door to get in because they were yelling at each other in the garage because he was trying to drive off again — and all it did was get him in a 24-hour psych hold and then they told me to pick him up. And it cost $1,200 to fix the garage door.
They won’t touch him because of the massive health problems—at least not without significant bloodshed. The only thing they’ll do is throw him in an ambulance to be held at a hospital on a psych hold because he went nuts on the cops — and then I’m called to take him back home. I tried to get him admitted to the psych ward officially — and the social worker agreed — but the doctor said it wasn’t warranted because he’s calm now.
It was literally better if the police hadn’t been called because then I had to bring home an enraged man back to the same house and either leave my mom there with him, stay there myself to ensure her safety, or bring her to my home.
I suppose I could not have picked him up and left him there. I freely admit: I don’t know how to do something like that to my own father. I didn’t speak to him on the way home or for a week after until he apologized, but clearly there were no lessons learned be it from the police or from how I handled it. Could I have ignored him for longer? Sure — but to what end? So he won’t go to the appointments I worked my butt off to get for him and we miss something and he dies?
This level of care is why we’ve discovered a subdural hematoma; a GIST tumor in his stomach that we had removed; a gall bladder mass that ended up being gall bladder cancer (also removed); a blockage in his carotid artery that now requires a vascular surgeon because an angioplasty was impossible; a mini stroke recently that now requires more neurology visits, and that’s in addition to his CHF, vascular dementia, stage 3 kidney disease, COPD, and more. It’s really hard for me to treat him normally when he is clearly not “normal,” not that he was ever a “nice guy” before these problems.
I can rationally accept that the advice you’re giving is sound, given the circumstances. I’ve advised as much to other people. I just have no way in my temperament or upbringing to implement any of it in my own life and live with myself. I honestly do not know HOW.
Yeah, I think I’ll need to request some additional resources like a social worker and find some solution soon. I’ll look into a geriatric psychiatrist tomorrow. He’s on a couple medications prescribed by the Cleveland Clinic, but clearly it isn’t enough.
Thanks.
Obviously, with all of his health issues, he is no longer safe to drive or live without supervision and you aren't going to be around because the situation will kill you. So what is your plan B?
Not being snarky, you have been conditioned so thoroughly by your parents you actually believe that them getting what they want is more important then you. I am sorry for you and your husband, because he's the one that won't have you.
Best of luck enjoying what time you have left, because your body is sending you screaming sirens and you "keep on keeping on" with the insanity.
:)
hug!!!
it sounds verrry tough.
a few thoughts:
Number 1:
you said you’re surprised they spend their remaining time/life, arguing, etc.
some people feel GOOD when they argue/they want conflict!! they want drama. they especially want drama that creates a mess for other people (you).
i was also VERY surprised when i saw first-hand, some elderly people fighting like crazy, behaving very badly - is that how they want to be remembered?
the thing is, some people really enjoy creating conflict/arguing/putting others down/etc.
you and i, and many people, like peace.
(by the way, my real name means peace)
:)
but some people LOVE conflict/arguing and getting others angry, provoking them; dragging others into the conflict so they’re also in a bad mood. and that’s why it won’t stop. they like it.
Number 2:
you said this isn’t a life, and parents shouldn’t behave like this.
right.
“save yourself”
“protect yourself”
you have 1 life.
loving parents don’t want to STEAL your life.
and if your parents aren’t loving…well if they would be, they would want you to have a full life (happy, successful).
in history:
ENOUGH women’s lives have been ruined. go for your life!
i do believe we should help our elderly LOs.
we must also help ourselves.
somehow, change something, so that things are more balanced.
hug!!
bundle of joy :)
"I just have no way in my temperament or upbringing to implement any of it in my own life and live with myself. I honestly do not know HOW."
This is your first step. You're starting to see that you're part of the problem.
Wanna know why they're involving you in their marital fights? For the same reason you get called when they lose their remote control. Or sign up for something stupid. Or want to socialize with their friends while you and hubs(!)drive them and wait for five hours. Or find and schedule all these doctors and go to the hospital.
It is all equally emergent to them. And it is to you, too!
I've heard very little mention of your hubs here, other than he's outstanding for going along with this. He has to be absolutely miserable right now with his wife not present, and this "THEY MIGHT DIE" thing is going to wear increasingly on not just you, but him, and perhaps your grown children.
And I've heard very little about your oma. Is she able to read, write, talk, drive and type? Otherwise healthy? Why isn't she doing more of her scheduling and errands and stuff? They expect it because you DO EVERYTHING. That's why they have no boundaries.
Your dad's vascular dementia causes him to be unable to control his behaviors or recognize that there are issues. https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-dementia/what-is-dementia/types-of-dementia/vascular-dementia
Still, that doesn't help keep you sane.
Neither you or your mother will win a argument when trying to reason with someone with dementia. His ability to reason is long gone, as is the executive ability required to manage his life. Some of what is occurring is because he is no longer mentally competent to initiate actions or control himself. Given the constant fighting and the post-fight wandering, your dad might need to be in a memory care, or even a nursing home given his overall poor health. At best, you'd need to get his aggressive behaviors medically managed, by having an honest conversation about them with his physician/neuropsych, and then have in-home help for them, but that's really not going to be optimal, and it doesn't sound healthy for your mom, either.
Do you have POA? You're acting as one already, but is it official? Can you limit the visual triggers for his spending, switch more things to online access, filter emails and unknown callers, limit paper mail with ads and offers?
As you note, It will also help you have a therapist--someone who will be in your corner and confirm what you already know--that you are in a deeply unhealthy relationship.
You might also find folks in similar situations at the alzheimer's org forums, and join in the discussions there as well--it's more of a 'dementia' caregiver's forum than just for AD. A lot of this is so overwhelming...this forum and the Alz.org forum let me know that what I was seeing in my mom was not unusual, and helped me understand how to handle some of our potential conflicts.
This thread might help...
https://www.alzconnected.org/discussion.aspx?g=posts&t=2147559074
You don't HAVE to.
Your dad belongs in a Memory Care facility. Once the wandering starts, it's the only safe thing to do. Work with his neuro/psych team on making that happen.
That "flash" may be a retinal detachment. I'd get myself to an opthamologist asap.
I see in a later post your Dad’s sister came..so let her help him & you go about living your best life.
HUGS 🤗
Install cameras in their house so you'll be able to check on them anytime 24 7and set some ground rules!
Let them know you will check in with them and for them to only call you when it is an emergency.
Let them know you Do Not Want To and Will Not Listen to their fights! And stuck by it, absolutely Don't!
Tell Dad the you will Not be going to look for him any more when he gets mad and leaves the house! Tell mom the same thing and Follow through and Don't look for him..
Next time Dad leaves the house, Don't go after him and maybe he'll think twice before leaving if he sees that you won't be going after him.
No changing of any type of Insurance or anything except once a year.
Try and find a Senior place they can go to during the day to meet others, make friends, play games, art ect.
You need to make this happen
LIke you said. They will out live you.
It's up to you.
You can't change them but you can change yourself with how you're handling it.
Prayers
Secondly, do you have POA? A few years back, when my stepdad was still alive, I was designated medical and durable power of attorney. I was put on all their checking accounts. Stepdad passed away 2 years ago and I am stuck caring for my mom who has vascular dementia, but has been a ragaholic all of her life. She talks constantly about what she is going to buy, but I know she can't because she does not have access to the money. She doesn't have access to insurance papers, nothing that she can mess up. Your father should not have access to change these things.
I've read many of the responses, there are many excellent suggestions. As someone who is in a similar circumstance, my first thought is to take care of your own health first. Immediately, actually. I'm concerned about your eyes. Hire whatever help they need now so you can focus on yourself. Then, when you're feeling better, you can sit down and make a plan on how to best move forward.
I don't know your situation, but things didn't improve for me until I told my siblings that I quit. We started working together as a family after that meltdown. It's amazing what can be accomplished if you have help and support from family. If not, hire the help and support.
During a discussion we had with an elder care attorney, she told us about someone she had on staff. I can't remember the woman's title, but the employee would go into the home and evaluate the loved one and then make recommendations for care. She was like a geriatric social worker.
My husband and I have been held hostage for so many years, I'm embarrassed to say because neither of us had the gumption to stand up for ourselves. As a result, we've been caregivers for the three parents between us without help from family. Now, I say, "Two down, one to go." Dark humor, forgive me. We've learned a lot in the past year and are doing much better, but we still have challenging days.
Isthisrealyreal wrote, "Not being snarky, you have been conditioned so thoroughly by your parents you actually believe that them getting what they want is more important then you." It took me so long just to understand this concept. I still have difficulty with boundaries because we were raised this way.
I'm sending you a virtual hug.