For discussions please. Once again trying to stop the endless nursing home bashing.
I just added what’s below to a question in response to the lovely Cover poster, but thought I’d share with more of you. This subject has come close to having me leave the AC forum several times. I’m not a fan of lumping all of anything into one basket. It’s why I don’t get racism for example, as there are plenty of people of my race I don’t really want to be categorized as being anything like. People and things are best considered one at a time.
Cover, not to beat a dead horse (also not calling anyone a dead horse) anyone on this forum any length of time is well aware you were in a facility you hated. I do not at all deny there are poorly managed care settings throughout our country. My point is this, there are times (and my family suddenly, painfully faced one) when there is no choice but a nursing home, and I do mean no choice. A family does all in their power to find the best place in their area, and moves in their loved one with tremendous sadness, all the while hoping for the best. They advocate and watch for issues. Some come to this forum for advice and support. And they find from you, and some others, a continual bashing of ALL managed care settings, references to news stories about horrors that have happened, statements of how their loved one would rather die than be there, etc. Yet they had no alternative, the care needs were too great to be accomplished in a home setting, their own health wouldn’t allow it, they had run out of money for home health workers, etc. Is it really asking too much to provide compassion and support, not lump all managed care places into one category called BAD, not heap guilt on those who faced a heartbreaking choice, not possibly cause someone to lose their own health refusing to make this needed decision because of the trash talking and guilting, to simply say it’s okay even if you don’t fully understand? My mom has been gone a long time now. I still miss her and think of her with smiles. I’m grateful for a nursing home staff who were competent and compassionate, I know we were blessed in a very dark time. I also know my mother didn’t want to spend even one day there, she hated it, much as we all will if it’s us one day. I’d like to think no one will heap guilt and thoughtless comments on my family if it comes our way again. It’s hard enough as is
As stated, I’m well aware of terrible facilities, I also know some good options with a staff that considers nursing home work their life’s calling. Thanks for considering the idea of looking at nursing homes one at a time
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I think, 90 percent of everyone in this world , will do everything they can to keep loved ones out of any facility.
As I think 100 percent of everyone that comes to this forum has done everything they could. They wouldn't be here asking what to do if they didn't, and if they were not beside themselves with the painful choices they have to make.
I also feel that if people choose not to that they deserve are support on how to navigate this without putting them in a facility.
Yes we should suggest it, but if they chose not to I think they should get just as much support.
I just saw your posting to Cover.
I just posted below it.
This is what I posted.
"@ cover
@ daughter
Of course you know, as I just told Nacy earlier, I love you both. But.....
Cover was my boots on the ground when in care. I take seriously that we had the perspective of someone who had BEEN THERE--who WAS THERE. I wish to heaven we had so many more. When my bro was in ALF I saw folks on computers. I know they are out there. I wish they were here.
My brother likely often soothed and smoothed it over for me with his "Oh, hon, it's a lot like the army when I was young. I didn't much LIKE it but I made the BEST of it." The guy made the best of everything. He was always my hero, my rock. After death I guess he has become this atheist's Saint. They say it happens.
Cover, in my most recent bout of breast cancer, diagnosed last Feb I said to one sweet, young and very open doc "How many patients tell you 'Good! I have no guts for getting a whole lot older?' ". She laughed.
So many good things about cancer. The good meds. The hospice. The right to die laws in Cali. The semi-certainty of that "6 month" thing, whereas you are seldom given it with dementia. A way to BEAT demenia. Make certain your stuff is in order and you give S. the cutglass cheese dish NOW.
We are all going the same place. And we are all terrified of how we will have to get there. How many losses until finally that last loss--our brain? Our very being.
We all have so many thoughts and feelings, and there is really no black or white, just shadings of grey.
I wish there were answers. I often wish the government would just issue us a very easy little pill for when we are ready. But NO. They won't. We have to figure out bad ways like lighting a barbeque in the shower and putting towels round the cracks under the bathroom door. Some old folks look at those keeling of fentanyl overdoses and wonder "Where's the nearest dealer".
This is a HUGE subject. It's one that AC does over and over and over again. I think that there is so much value in each and every one of our voices.
Just to say I so value you BOTH."
Indeed this is a MAMMOTH ISSUE. It is huge. And it affects so many. And ALL OUR voices are of value. Daughter, you said "heartbreaking". Yes. Our hearts are broken. It is the price of love, the price of living, the price of standing witness.
And to be honest, to me, that is what is the best thing about AGINGCARE.
We stand witness.
(0)
I love them = I am a good person.
If I move my family member to live with 'strangers' = I mustn't love them enough. If I don't love them = I am a bad person.
I really dislike this good person / bad person thinking. Life is full of colours. Not black & white.
I do understand people needing to gripe but there has to be a caveat. Maybe starting posts with "I'm not saying the care facility where your loved one resides is like this but.........."
The whole subject is fraught with sadness and despair. But there must be some good experiences somewhere.
This is why I don't read reviews online. Most of the people who post have had bad experiences. You seldom hear the positive ones.
It's not right that he felt the need to do that, instead of humanly telling his doctor, I'm done!!
As a vocation, AND as an avocation.
I will tell you that people I cared for (and their families) live in my heart as long as I personally live MYSELF (despite the fact Stella tried to beat me to death with her cane).
I will never forget them. I gave them all of me every day. I "LOVED" them. Whatever "love" is.
And later, long after I had myself retired as an RN, I saw the dedication of a staff who cared for my brother in a manner that I could not imagine coming from anyone other than a SISTER. If it wasn't true--what I SAW--, then Pacifica Senior Living in Palm Springs, CA certainly made it seem SO. For my poor brother, and for ME.
I would never have been capable of doing in home care. No matter the love. My limitations are too severe. As an RN I knew what it took from me three days a week, three 12 hour shifts, 12 sick days, 12 holidays and 5 weeks vacation. I loved it. It wiped me OUT.
I don't know what to say. I am 82. My partner is 84. We are HERE.
This is all very imperfect.
But we are all trying? Are we not? Whether in trying to give care (mistakenly trying or not), whether trying to FIND good care, whether trying to negotiate some happy medium between their care and our care?
We are all STRUGGLING. I think of "strugglingson" whose very name on our site designates how he sees himself.
I think this is one of the amazing things. In all our divisions, political, cultural, religious--all of our divisions--there remains THIS. Our love of family, nuclear and estended, of country, of world, extend it out, out, and out further......
And HERE we come together to question. To try to find a way. Some way....................
I have no faith in humanity at all, at the old age of 82. Other than this. That we struggle to find the way, an answer................that we struggle.
I am having my coffee & feel like I am in a cafe of intelligent & interesting people having worthy discussions (while still in my dressing gown & the quiet of my own back garden). ❤️☕️🌳
(Time to put those glasses on..)
I showed care, gave attention, listened to many elders this week. It may not be called 'love'.. but I felt it was positive. It was supportive.
I heard that my Dad also was given care, really listened to, supported by others during the hard week he had. By professionals, assistants, different levels of skilled workers. That is also not called 'love' either, but support.
I've said it before, we all have... 'Love' alone is not enough.
Sure we need love but we also need food, shelter etc. In our frail years, many of us will need good practical nursing care too.
We all die.
We need to make it easier. Not just easier, but more beautiful. B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L.
As an old RN I have ushered many through the door. Trust me. There's nothing to fear (other than the meddlesome family). It's the trip of a lifetime. See yourself in the backseat of the care, a child, coming home from Thanksgiving, hearing your parents' droning gentle voices from the front of the car, lulled, lulled gently between sleep and not sleeping.......................................see that. Feel that. I believe to my core that is what it is. And what they see, what they dream? ONLY THEY KNOW. And I only know that whatever it is, it is good. They try to rouse themselves out of it only for YOU, to reassure YOU. Because their journey is already so far beyond you that you cannot imagine it.
That's what I saw and what I believe. I am an atheist. I have no belief in Gods or Heavens or other world beyond ours. But I will ALWAYS believe that our leave-taking is the "trip of a lifetime" and there's a part of me that always looked forward to it.
People are in snf because prior measures have failed. They’ve done family care, and home care, and now there’s a need like ivs or wound care or two person assist that these snfs are there for. And they’re not gonna necessarily be nice. It’s just that they’re the best available,
I recently visited a memory care facility and saw an aide gently and lovingly supporting a very old dementia patient in her chair by cradling the woman's body with her own as she spooned pureed food into her mouth.
I saw an aide who was attentive to a dementia patient who was holding a small dog in her wheelchair. The aide was watching the patient closely to make sure that she and the dog were comfortable in the chair. She kept making adjustments to the cushions.
I saw a visitor to a memory care facility taking time to talk to three patients she didn't know. One of the elders grabbed her hand and kept saying, 'I love you, I love you,' and the visitor hugged her and said 'I love you too.'
How dare we think that only their families care about these people? How can we discount the devotion and love that professional caregivers expend on their patients? We shouldn't. Thank you to so many professional caregivers that I've observed in my long journey of family caregiving. You have saved my life.
But now? Please, oh please, give me the easy little pill when the time comes. But since that's probably not going to happen, I wonder what the police would think if they ran across an 87 Y/O woman skulking around the transit station (or 3rd & Pine in our nearest big city) at 1:00 A.M. looking for a hit or two of fentanyl! I probably wouldn't even get arrested--just transported back home.
I wish I was rich had unlimited funds and could have just paid to have the best of the best care to keep my parents home. My mother's last days would have been happier. She absolutely hated being in the nursing home. My father is still lingering there, just nearly completing year #2. He has mild dementia and seems resigned to being there. His care needs (which are great) are being met and he appears content. He has not complained like my mother did.
They were burning through their money and their care requirements escalated. It wasn't possible to keep them home anymore. As far as this facility goes it is mostly for Medicaid patients but for the most part the care is good. There is room for improvement but on the whole it is good.
It's sad having to be in one of these places but there was not much that could be done to avoid it. My siblings and I just could not handle their increased needs in their home with their limited financial resources.
They had a nice home but over the course of their dying, it became a dismal place. The medical equipment was all over - oxygen tanks, walkers, Hoyer lift, wheelchairs. Pretty rugs had to be taken up. Medicines, charts, a walk-in tub installed. Large packages of Depends and Ensure delivered every week. Used Depends in big bags to be disposed of. It was clean and neat, but the ongoing reminders of their decrepitude were depressing. Shifts of caregivers and hospice in and out. When things would break, such as the overworked washing machine, mom would panic at strangers coming in to repair them. She thought they were there to hurt her, and the unfamiliar noises scared her. We eventually left some things unrepaired because it wasn’t worth it to put her through something that disturbed her so much.
She’d have been better off in a facility instead of her home that she no longer recognized. At the end, my dad thought he was in a hospital anyway.
A poster doesn't always have a choice.
A poster shouldn't be told to put her own health and serious burnout aside to accommodate a 96 yo elder at home.
A poster should be told to take care of himself ALSO and not make himself sick due to dancing a 24/7 jig for the elder.
Its death and the dying process that comes with old age that's so awful, not necessarily where the elder is living. Very few people meet death with a welcoming smile and open arms. THIS is the crux of the matter.
My Dad love it, loved being around people of his generation, and he especially loved the food :) He sold his house and used the equity to pay for his new apartment. Then later he moved into Memory Care into what he referred as his "college dorm room" :)
I wouldn't be surprised if there were relatives, friends, or neighbors wondering why I wasn't physically hands-on care. Well, I was a senior citizen myself, at the time was dealing with cancer, plus working at a career where I had to break couple glass ceilings to succeed. If I was hands-on, chances are I would have been part of that 40% of family caregivers that die leaving behind their love one.
I apologize if this response may be too long, but I wanted to post my thoughts on this topic/thread :}
I have not changed my stance on NH/ALs, maybe in the future, but not now, lol. it's nice that some of you have found facilities for yourselves and/or your loved ones where the experiences have been positive. Sadly, that is not the case for everyone. The postings that were made were not to make anyone feel guilty or get upset if their loved one (or themselves) are going into a facility. They are just my experiences of dealing with them not only for myself, but my late mom as well.
Many facilities are probably pretty similar to the ones that were posted on, which is sad. Many elders are probably already upset to be in these places, without needing to deal with the drama and other negativity that permeates many of these places.
Sure there are good ones, which is great, though again, the bad outweighs the good.
Personally, my bad experience did not necessarily come from the hands on staff, but the administration. To wit, when Medicaid felt I no longer needed to be there and stopped payment to them, their attitude changed to be nasty, especially the business manager. They felt that it was my fault that this happened and tried to make staying there as bad as they could. Ironically, the staff member, that was supposed to be the advocate for the resident, the social worker, turned out to be on the side of the higher ups. He wanted to make a name for himself with them, and did all he could to appease them.
An example was the hearing to contest not giving a proper 30 day discharge. The administration had almost 2 days to prepare for the hearing, myself? 2 hours. Even with their extra time, they still lost the appeal so they had to issue the proper 30 day notice. This upset the SW, so he tried other means to try to get me out before the 30 days was over. When he realized the time to appeal the 2nd discharge had passed, he took full advantage and did nothing to help. I had to arrange for my own ride from the facility and be out by 4 PM. The day of discharge he walked past the room with someone else not even stopping in to say anything. In short he let his assistant handle everything to soothe his bruised ego, but again he failed.
A complaint was filed (and investigated) about the improper discharge, and the complaint was confirmed to be valid. The facility was fined for being in violation (ironically it is listed in their rules about discharging). I guess this and probably some other issues has led to his leaving (his assistant as well), and even the business manager.. To be continued
Hopefully the few wonderful people are still there, but in my stay there, they lost some truly kind and caring people, LPNs, Aides, Dietitian, to name a few. They would have orientation for new hires with donuts and coffee and just a short time later they would be gone. I won't make this much longer, but just wanted to give one reason for the feelings about these facilities (the day this is being written, a facility staff protested a few days ago about the conditions for staff and residents, this from a facility that changed owners not too long ago)
If you made it this far, thanks so much for reading and
Thanks again, Daughter1930 for this thread
I seriously love and wish the best for you all!! :}
Perhaps we should all consider the word "Medicaid" a welfare benefit where at times the best care is not provided due to an overload on the system.
The basic issue to me is that too many people have done nothing to plan and provide for their elder years so they must exist within that system, whether they like it or not.
We are living too long even with funds to provide private care we can easily outlive our money. My mother is 99 in AL, she has about 3 years left of funds, then she will have to go on Medicaid. One good thing is that she can remain in the same facility, that is one of the benefits, I paid special attention to that one issue that has been overlooked by many.
I have had a total of 4 LO's that I had to place in AL & MC, NH down to one now, three facilities were/are good, one was not as it ended up being an emergency situation caused by a stubborn man so I ended up having to scramble to find him a place, although he was self-pay, he only lasted a week which was a blessing.
The bottom line to me is that if one does not plan they plan to fail, no money=one is forced to take whatever is available to them.
Money management/planning is a lost art here in the USA, although we have everything we need to plan at our fingertips few access that realm, they live paycheck to paycheck, spend every dime they make, that is their mentality level, all of a sudden they are old and without any funds aside from SS which the average amount rec'd in 2024 is around $1,700 a month, certainly not enough to cover a private facility, hence they go into the welfare system or are already in it, living in low income housing and food stamps.
Cover has taken their experience and made it truth for everyone, which of course we know is not the case.
Yes, no one wants to go into a facility, me included, I will do what I have to do when the time comes, if I live as long as my mother has, I too will be forced to go the Medicaid route...eventually.
They took him out, and brought him home, due to the conditions.
I have no clue what they where, my sister is the type to blow up everything. If she hears a gun shot, she tells the world , she was shot at.
Then my darling sister, calls my 88 year old mom and tells her, version of it, and why they brought him home.
My sister was at moms 5x so far this year, 2x last year, lives a half hour away. I have no issues or anger over that. I honestly don't blame her, she has a lot on her plate too.
But let's not scare the pants off a frail 88 year old unless you are going to do all the work, to keep them out of a nursing home.
People that have such a strong opinion on facilitys should either, keep there opinions to themselves, or go help them, or go to Congress and change the system!!!!
The administration last week said they are addressing this issue. I’m still waiting.