Insanity of it all?

Take the job out of state. You can't help them because they won't help themselves. Now, that sounds uncaring, but, he sounds totally competent and he has first rights over his wife. So if you went to court, you would lose. So pack up and go. Let sis handle it.

I have to agree with Pam. Get out of the situation before it wrecks your health. Take the out of state job. It will force your dad to face things and obtain the help they need - or not until another crisis occurs. Eventually they will have to get outside help. A dry drunk and a narcissist are too much for anyone person to handle..Look after you! ((((((hugs)))))

I have not been offered the job out of state - it is an interview. Change is always scary but somehow if I am offered a position that will allow me to support myself fully, I will have to step into that moment.

Is it typical to feel guilt in having to walk away? I often have been made to feel guilty all my life from them. Negative mother. Never do enough. SHe mellowed over the years but all it takes is one of those pretend cries when I say no to something - like attending an event with them - or asking them to please be reasonable - she does a fake play cry. It pisses me off and I need to not allow it to make me upset. I have never liked the guilt trips. I ended up doing that to my kids and have rehabbed my behavior towards them and apologized for it. I don't want to hurt my kids from a legacy I was taught and had no idea was wrong - but always felt so sad when I was handed one.

I cannot imagine the hell it is to age - well, I can. I can totally empathize with them aging. I wish they could embrace this stage knowing they have the eans and help from me instead of making me feel like safe boundaries are not a punishment to them, but honoring myself.
I tell you one thing, writing this to you guys and having you there really helps diffuse some of the intensity of this. Thank you.

My other issue of indecision and fear is my extreme empathy and compassion that is pushed into overdrive when no one else steps up to help. It makes me terrified of aging so much that I have nobody to help me....I don't want to grow old like them and be warehoused in a home for the elderly. I don't want to be an a**hole to people and have respect to get my needs met without being ignored. I am so scared of growing old and being alone as I am now that I would rather die when things go t*ts up when my body and mind fail. I do not have a longing to live forever and be wasting alone more than I am now. I would rather be dead. I would NEVER put my kids through having to care for me. NEVER. My point is that - this front row seat to aging has sapped my hope and strength very often. I listen to motivational tapes all day and exercise. I go to ACOA meetings.. I try very hard to be brave and strong despite this chapter. But I have serious doubts at 52. I don't feel so hot about my future when these circumstances pop up. I don't want the comings and going of this world to shape my destiny but they do. Does anyone relate? Is fear part of this journey?

ETA for clarity: they react in anger when I exert safe boundaries which they seem to truly believe are a punishment to them, when I am attempting hard to honor myself.

Whether you get the out-of-state job or not, move out! Yes, you'll feel guilty, because masters did a great job of installing the guilt buttons and know how to punch them. But you will survive the guilt. Perhaps you'll benefit from counseling to help you disengage the guilt buttons. Will you survive the toxic environment you are now in? That is questionable.

Are you estranged from your children? Why do you fear being alone in your old age? Don't you think they will be there for you? In spite of what it looks like in your dysfunctional family, it doesn't have to be either be the full-time caregiver or be totally absent. You can continue connection to your children and other people in your life into old age without expecting/allowing them to be your caregiver.

I'm sorry you had a disabling upbringing. It is way past time to overcome that disability and make decisions that are goof for you.

I agree with Jeannegibbs about the counseling. It took me several years in counseling to learn how to establish boundaries with my mother. My mother also tries to guilt-trip me with tears and self-pity. Even knowing her attitude is totally selfish, it's very hard not to get hooked into it. I wish she would take responsibility for her own decisions, and accept that since she never made provisions for her own old age, she won't have everything she would have liked. I wish she would recognize that it's not fair of her to expect me to spend my golden year making her final years as nice as possible, when she spent her retirement partying and traveling until she was too disabled to do it anymore.

But that's not the reality. It has to be enough for me to recognize it. I have not decided to leave the state, but I have decided to move within the state to a location farther away from her, but that has more of the features that I want in my environment. When I told her, I said to her with conviction "I'm happy about this. Please don't rain on my parade." So she's had to accept it, although I can hear the resentment in her tone when she complains that I don't want to take care of her. I don't think she has any right to feel resentful, but can't control how she feels. I can only control what I choose to do.

As far as the fear of aging, I don't feel it much even though I have no children and I'm not close with any of the younger members of my family. I plan to stay independent for as long as possible, and I know I'm resourceful and can figure out ways around physical limitations. Mental limitations are another matter, but that would be no fun regardless of whether I'm in a nursing home or surrounded by family. I'm planning to cross that bridge when and if I get to it - I don't know what else one can really do.

Scaredtaker, I love your screen name.

One of the best books I've read about what compels people like us to "keep going back for more" is Leaving Home by David Celani.

If you have an opportunity to support yourself fully and flee, I would. But, it's also a fact of life for some of us that if the estate isn't preserved, even if we are also gainfully employed out there, the future looks even bleaker in the long term. It's pretty hard to make a comeback and rebuild these days, especially after 50. So many factors to juggle, aren't there?

My situation with my NPD mother hasn't had any medical crises yet, but watching a walking corpse, who always has enough energy to criticize...drives you crazy. I thought these would be my "healed" years. But, I find myself spending a great deal of my emotional energy planning how to make sure I don't "stay too long at the fair" like she has. Maybe there will be a miracle and there will be some legislation that actually addresses the changes in our society that modern medicine has caused. I doubt it. Sounds like you are sick of thinking about death all the time (perhaps having believed this would have been the time to at last be free from your abusive parents)? If so, me too. I don't exactly feel guilty for thinking these things, just hopeless, spent, potentially misunderstood.

I just joined this sight yesterday, been lurking for about a year. It is amazing how it lets you decompress, how supportive people are. Initiating communication with my siblings or mother became like taking a swan dive into quick sand. I've given up on that for now.

Sounds like you are doing good things for yourself. Exercise is so important. That you educated yourself and grew to even know what rational boundaries are is something to be proud of!

Thank you again everyone.

I am not estranged from my children now but was for time following divorce.

I did not think of my parents in terms of abusive to me. I know I ave endured neglect and abuse though.

I want to do the right thing. I don't always know what that is.

I believe I am at the crossroads of spirituality and m human-ess. Vexed and perplexed. So much that the mere eyebrow raised at hope of starting over in my ly 50s makes me shirk..."wait...it's not likely?" I want and need hope because I am alone. I feel alone.

I have been in counseling the last yr and I just ended therapy with the person. Before that I have been in and out of therapy for years. It was not until I was forced to face change that I clawed my way out of h**l and forced myself to try. The human spirit is hard to kill. I did not realize how strong I am when people point it out - but for me I have not felt like I am and that fuels my fear of leaving.

I wonder about the fact they are not completely ok in the head. Is it fair of me to leave in this case? I wish I could stay. But they seem to feel I can do it all for them. I wish I could but the servitude in that expectation drains me of my life force. I wish I wish I wish....but I don't steer what is. Only what I can do from this point.

Anyone else have fear?

scaredtaker, from one lackey to another, I know what you're going through. I also look for the spiritual element and learning that goes with caregiving. The trouble is that my days are spent playing what seems to be a whack-a-mole game of problems as they pop up. Working with elders can be crazy stressful, particularly when there is dementia.

When I read what you wrote about wanting to work but wanting to stay, I wondered if there was any job opportunity right around you. That way you could do both -- work all day, but still be able to help if you wanted to. It would probably also help clear your mind if you were in the world all day.

And I wondered if someone could conveniently "steal" the step ladder if it were left in the yard one day. I would definitely get that out of their reach.

My life is crazy, too, so I know what you're going through. Don't expect any sincere thank-yous, because they probably still see you as a little girl who should obey them. The only time I get thanks is when I go buy something particularly good to eat for dinner. I wish I had answers for you, but I am not sure there are any correct answers. I think the best we can hope for is to emerge from it all with our sanity intact and enough money to live on.

scaredtaker, there's always hope for tomorrow, even if it's just that tomorrow you'll be able to have a lighter mood :). I can be negative even in better circumstances and living here with Eeyore can send it into overdrive. I was just trying to relate how, beyond deeper emotions and desire to do right by everyone, there maybe practical matters that can make it hard to simply up and leave. Last week, I was ready to flee (3,000 miles back to where I came from), had a huge blow-out, said we need to look at homes, the brochures have arrived, and inspired a reality check in that maybe that isn't the answer either, yet. But, at least we have some more information.

You had the good sense to become an RN and must have excellent employment prospects regardless of age, location. This gives you options. Maybe talk to an eldercare management counselor, get some professional, in-person support to get the ball rolling at a speed you are comfortable with? See what the options are for them? Then, deciding the right thing may become clearer.

Things have lightened up this weekend for me, I think from coming to this site. I was in a closed loop with her (we're surrounded by people yet so isolated) which was making me say things that were true but pointless to try to communicate to her.

Jessie, I like the making the ladder disappear idea. I've found that making even small changes in the physical environment can make a big difference. Whack-a-mole, ain't it the truth? And the food thing, oh yeah. The problem is when she starts nagging me about things I would want to do anyway, like creative cooking, I become obstinate because I don't want to reinforce the nagging, trying to be vigilant with boundaries But, I'm going to try to just la la la with the nagging and do what we both want anyway. Crazy.

Scaredtaker, your post yesterday inspired me to get some exercise and read some stuff that inspires me, thanks. Hope today was better for you :)

Jessie - I have hidden the ladders and she screams and rages and then her sidekick starts in, too. My siblings have told her to stop but she likes the attention or simply believes she can do it. My one sister visited over the summer and mom was trying to go up the stairs to the garage attic and my sister was pleading with her to stop and mom just snickered and laughed like a kid. My sister it into her. I hate the idea of being mad to the degree of snapping at her because I have too much compassion and guilt. I have no idea what goes on inside her head. I get glimpses of her. But the climbing thing is insane. She climbs the ladder in her closet. She fell one time a few yrs ago in her closet and guess who had to take her to the er after picking her up.

Honestly, sometimes I do not know what I have a right to do or not do. I don't know why but my dad went crazy when after my mom fell a few yrs ago, the in home PT removed these endless supply of rug throws that even I trip on. My dad lost his temper and was raging. No amount of logic worked. In fact he slipped and fell on one last week. He screams at us when he falls like it is our fault. Oye. The man is a rageaholic with no compassion for people unless it serves him. He can reign it in when he chooses to.

WHACK A MOLE - Holy cr*p I say that all the time. I guess life in general is like that - moreso in a caregivers red light alert district. Or like the little rascals wee wow cake. And there is no thanks. I don't expect it but it was expected of me as a kid and still is. I believe in being thankful and telling people that. I choose to be kind regardless of his behavior. Or hers.

I do work now PRN and it is good money during the warm months...not so much now. I used to volunteer a lot at our shelter but it is more service and frankly it depressed me as there has to be a break in that sort of intensity. Sometimes it ripped my heart out.

I want to go back south or out west and have looked for oppty's to do so but at my age it is hard. As some of you know, aging is a stigma relative to job searching. As a caregiver I can put any spin on what I do here and have been doing but truly, employers don't always see this as noteworthy. But I am trying and hence why I am grateful someone is calling for an interview Monday. I am not wild about Boston - but I can see the value in such a rich opportunity should they bestow that to me. The issue with FT work here is that I will have to drop everything to attend to the increase in their emergencies. I already have at my PRN job. If I have to leave work that day, I don't get paid. Ah well. So the interview opportunities have increased, but either the money or the YES WE WANT YOU has yet to happen. Hoping, though! I am afraid to start over but I suppose that is how life is, right? Always changing. I have not been great with change even when it is positive.

Little - I agree that I can slow down as needed to make a decision. The last 4 years have been indecisive and ended up with me staying put and working on m Masters. I do not have enough money to pick it up again this past quarter but I am studying for another certification right now.

I am not an RN - should have been because there seems to be a lot of work for that, but it's not my thing. I have so much awe for nurses. Takes a lot of strength of character.

I do not know what it is but my parents are acting as though I have done something again. My dad told me the mirror on his car is broken. Guess what the implication is? I said I have no idea what happened because I do not drive it. He, however, hits parked cars and goes through stop signs. I mean - tried to shut that down, too. Did not work.

I feel there is only so much I can do and as such, I have to throw myself a life preserver. I find the years slipping by and frankly it would be worth it if the relationships with them were enriching. But they could only be as enriching as they would allow. I wish they could see the beauty in life and how blessed they are. I wish they could tap into their spirituality and simply love without guilting their kids. I want to live my life while I can and there was room and desire to do so b helping them. I took on way too much and I thought it would make them happy. It's never enough and it has not made me a family favorite - and I have learned to not care about the siblings opinions too much - but lets face it - caretakers are not always so popular.

When I hear stories about people fighting over inheritance I cannot relate. I have never ever wanted any such penance. Nothing is owed me. No matter how poor I may be - I find it upsetting to even consider standing in line for the handout. I want nothing to do with that. To me it is so - I don't know - disturbing.

Love reading your comments, Scared. You are a very good and concise writer. My NPD 80 year old mother is driving me cuckoo lately. Nothing but wanting to die, day in and day out. This dark time of year is a struggle for so many of us. I think the NPD's get worse as well. This too shall pass. Easier said than done I know. Sending you good wishes and hoping the new job pans out. Your situation sounds untenable. Please keep us posted. AC is great for 'talking' things out.

Windy - thank you. I wondered if I was ousting at windmills and makind word salad. Glad you affirmed that it was concise.

I like the word you used- "untenable". Master's class!!

I think if I were elderly and felt badly I might consider taking myself out. I mean - for some, the pain may be that bad as can the depression. I can't speak for the. To hear this must be very difficult to bear witness to. Heart goes out to you.

Gosh - I cannot figure out if the NPD gets worse or less so w aging. Sad to watch in general.

I really cannot understand why the harder try to be kind and help them, the colder and meaner my father gets. It is almost surreal! Have you experienced this facet?

Watching this makes me fear aging. Anyone else??

Oh yes. The whole circus aged me, AND left me terrified of aging. Now that mom is gone, my old dread and despair made a U-turn. I now fixate on the prospect of my own sh*tty old age -- when the time comes. It takes great effort to fight my black cloud. I don't always succeed.

It doesn't help that most of my self-care went down the dumper when I got on the "Mom train" a few years ago. Now that things have leveled off, I keep saying I'm going to get my mojo back. But getting off my duff and making it happen is a whole different story. The "caregiving hangover" is a pitfall I did not expect.

My mother died in August, at age 96. She had dementia and mobility issues. She was a kind an loving woman who loved fun. She was polite. She accepted each of her 7 children as we are and never demanded we be something we weren't. She was well-liked by the staff at her nursing home. And in spite of her impairments, she was content.

I tell you this to make the point that not everyone ages the mean way your parents have. You don't have to fear that part of old age. To look only at your parents you may think that getting old is always dismal and filled with misery and meanness. That simply isn't true. Old people can be content in spite of impairments, and they can continue to be nice and to love and to show kindness.

My Mom is one of the sweetest people I know. This hasn't changed with age.

My dad was the opposite. But, I am certain that it was a big personality change brought on by actual physical damage being done to his brain from hydrocephalus.

Their elderly years does not pre-determine your own. Except in the case of actual physical damage....your future old age isn't destined to be old, mean, and nasty. It is what you make it.

Please do not be manipulated by guilt and fear. There is nothing as dangerous for you as that. You need to take the job, if you are asked and get out of this negative thinking that you can't make it on your own. There are plenty of older women who do not want to live alone and would be happy to have a roommate., if you cannot afford your own place right away.
Your parents can get paid health care workers who will have to deal with their dysfunction, you do not have to! Nothing in the parent child handbook does it say we owe them anything!
I care for my mother because she is my best friend. She is kind and smart and generous but there are still times hat I struggle with the task. The frustration is rational! The guilt is not.
If you get a job, make their care become a family problem to be solved by everyone. If you do not get out and try to create a healthy life, you will grow into a grouchy old person! Good luck!

What a difficult life you have! I have some thoughts.
1. Your siblings may not step up to help, because they see you as getting free room and board. Now let me make it perfectly clear that I don't think that they would be wrong for thinking this way, but I've read on this board that sibs can feel this way about the live-in caretaker.
2. If your father is running stop signs, then you know he shouldn't be driving. What happened when you tried to stop his driving?
3. What did your therapist say about your living situation? I would have thought he/she would have encouraged you to get a plan about moving out, and to be more sure about it.
4. I know what you mean about being scared about getting older. I am so tired of my mother's complaints. I don't know why she thinks I want to hear constant complaining about her ailments (well, I do know that is because she's pretty much of a hermit and she gets very little socialization) OR about other elders' complaints. I feel that I'll have to go through this myself, so why do I have to go through it twice?

Please get out of Dodge. Let your siblings handle your parents. You've done your part (especially since you don't care about any inheritance). Even if you were concerned about inheritance, I'd still say move out and away and wash your hands of them.

Yikes.....(wish we had an edit feature here!), I made a mistake in my first point. I DO THINK YOUR SIBS would be wrong in thinking that you owe care to your parents because you live with them. I have even read on this board where some sibs think the caretaking sib should PAY RENT to live in the parent's house while doing 24/7 caregiving. Unbelievable!