A nursing home that my now deceased dad left in December of 2019 is overcharging me for services. Advice?

Arc - thanks for the PM, so it seems the glitch is dad moved out or died before his Medicaid application was totally and completely processed. Imo you needed to do whatever to actually get the application done. Medicaid will retro payments to the NH. I’d suggest that you find his old Medicaid paperwork and send a letter to the state asking about his status and getting eligibility completed. It can be done after death; it’s unusual but can be done.

The NH should have worked with you to keep on top of all this. & I'm going to guess that a slew of correspondence went to the NH that your dad & therefore you should have gotten. so there's shared responsibility in this snafu. Imo the 44k full tilt private pay bill is being done to scare you as he was in a MedicAID bed which is a fraction of that. In theory all he owed the NH was his copay each month he was there.

If they try to continue to bill you & even if they turn it over to collections, my suggestion is you make the following yoir mantra both in all certified mail correspondence and any phone calls, that all was
1. done in your limited capacity as DPOA for dad, & 2. As such you are not personally responsible, 3. It’s dads debt, and 4. As it’s his debt & he’s deceased that it will become a debt of his estate and 5. therefore they need to look for a NOC (Notice to creditors) in the paper when probate is opened and file their debt accordingly. & 6. you do not have to give them a time frame for any of this (probate).

if your not good at going all pittbullie with others, get a friend and role play all this. Really it will help immensely. After your 3rd no nonsense phone call or letter your be all good on maintaining your voice and composure on this. Good luck!

Please heed Garden Artists advice!

For a bill to go from 6k to 44K in a few months is crazy.
So do you have Any idea what the 6k was based on?
& what the 44k based on?
Unless you signed off to be personally financially responsible for the bill - like you signed off to do this when his initial application was done to enter the NH - it’s not your debt, it’s dads.

And if dad is deceased, it’s now debt of his estate. Which unless probate is opened, just thrashes about from debt collector to debt collectors till they find someone they can coerce to pay or it finally times out on collectability.

Aug - Dec is 5 months, could the $ - now at a supposedly 44k - actually be 5 months of private pay billing from the NH as somehow Medicaid did not pay? Was there a Medicaid issue?

If he was eligible for LTC Medicaid, then all he would have been required to pay the NH would have been whatever his monthly income was to the NH less a small personal needs allowance. So if he got $1234 in Social Security a mo & his states PNA was $50 a mo, he needed to pay the NH $1184 each month. Did he do the Medicaid required co pay? And he paid it each month he was in the NH? Or did he owe the NH 6k from his copay?

What does the contract say? If he left with money owing the contract would probably say they could charge a certain percentage a month until paid off. If he had passed at the facility, the contract would have terminated.

As others have said, this is not a debt, but unfortunately, you'll probably have to open Probate to give them a chance to file a claim. If they don't file in a certain time frame, they're out of luck. You don't mention the state you're in, but doing a search they should have how they wprk in this instance.

I'm sorry for the loss of your dad.

OH OH. You don't owe them ANYTHING. Your FATHER owed them and he is gone. The assets of his estate stand to pay his debts.
You need a lawyer and you need one at once. The fact that YOU personally paid some on this can be considered in some ways an assumption of the debt. It also keeps the debt from passing into eventual oblivion, because each time you pay them you reopen this as though it happened yesterday.
Please get counsel. This is not your debt to pay. They cannot collect it from you. If there is anything left in your father's estate then you must use it to pay his bills, one of which is this.
Please see a Lawyer. Many on Forum are smart as whips, but you need counsel for your state and this institution. Take all information, bills, and what you have done re paying. Glad it is small amounts because it is flushing money down a toilet.
We also cannot know what you signed that makes them think YOU are assuming the debts of your father. When someone dies it is THEIR money and assets that goes to paying THEIR bills. When that is gone the people can go and pound sand.
GardenArtist has given you great advice. Please read this carefully and get help. An hour of Lawyer's time will give you a WEALTH of info.
Wishing you the best and hoping you will update us.

Arcmiddle, please read my posts on this thread. 

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/my-mom-lived-with-me-for-years-and-is-not-in-a-nursing-home-her-credit-cards-keep-calling-our-home-461195.htm

I address the Fair Debt Collections Practice Act, which governs debt collections, which you need to read before doing anything (other than looking for an attorney).  

Not all aspects of my post (near the very bottom and early on in the thread) affect you or your situation, but the basics do.   Your rights as well as those of someone who is/was responsible for the debt are addressed in the FDCPA. 

FDCPA:  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-41/subchapter-V

Some questions for your situation:

1.   The $6K owed, was that through Dec. of 2019?  If so, how does the nursing home account for the acceleration to $44K?   That can't be penalties and/or interest, can it?    Has Medicaid paid for the months for which it was approved?

2.   What do the admission papers establish in terms of nonpayment?

3.   Did you personally sign the admissions papers?  Did Dad sign?  And if you signed, did you sign individually or as proxy under a POA?   This makes a difference in whether you are personally obligated.  

This should be the first determination, i.e., who owes any debt, you or your father.

4.   If YOU signed the admission papers personally, and are responsible, definitely see an attorney, ASAP.   If you didn't sign the papers, you can either (a) respond in writing and advise that you have no individual or personal liability or (b) still see an attorney to help guide you through the debt collection process.

5.   If only your father signed the admissions papers, you have no liability, and since assets are nonexistent, he's "judgment proof."    I. e., suing is useless as he has no money or assets.  I'm assuming as well that any physical assets including real estate and possessions have already been disposed of?   

There could be an issue here, and legal advice would be appropriate.   If he did have any assets at all, an argument could be made that they should have been applied toward the outstanding NH bill, even if they weren't adequate to pay it all. 

6.   Did he have a Will, and were any distributions made pursuant to it?   It would have provided that all expenses of his last illness were priority payments (typical language), and they should have been applied toward the NH bill.   If he had a will, and distributions were made to heirs, or to others than debtors, an argument could be made that the distributions were improper.    You would definitely need an attorney in that case.

7.    Do NOT call the collections agency until you've spoken with an attorney.    And be aware that if you do call the debt collector, the calls likely are recorded, and can be altered.  I've experienced that.

8.    To find an attorney:  Search the NJ bar association site for law firms that handle debt collections for defendants, although you might have to go with one that handles issues like Social Security, since that kind of firm would be oriented toward individuals and financial issues.   You can also contact the local county bar associations and ask for referrals.

A bankruptcy attorney might also be helpful, since he/she deals with individual financial situations and probably is well versed in debt collections.

Another option is to go to local Senior Centers that offer attorney days and free advice; they might guide you to someone who can offer advice.

9.   Whatever you do, don't contact the debt collection agency until you know more about whether you have any obligation.   Your words will be twisted, they'll know your phone number, and harassment will begin...and continue..on and on and on.

Good luck.

I am reasonably certain that, as POA you are not responsible for your dad's debt, UNLESS you cosigned on any paperwork as a responsible payer.

The collections company can go after your dad's estate. Any money from the estate should go to pay off outstanding debt before assets (if any) are distributed to any beneficiaries. If there are no assets, then the collections company is out of luck.

But, given the information you provided, I would definitely call an attorney. By paying off small amounts, you might have "acknowledged" responsibility of the debt. An attorney would be able to better advise you if that's the case, and how to move forward from here.

But, if for instance, you dad had dies with no assets, owing money on credit cards which were only in his name, you would NOT be responsible for the debt as POA.