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I have been providing “informal support” for my elderly mother when her paid caregivers can’t or WON’T provide her with the care she needs for a few years now. It has been frustrating at times. I work for a school driving school bus then as a paraprofessional until it’s time to get on the bus for the afternoon route. my day starts at 4 AM and I’m usually not finished with my afternoon bus route until after 5 PM, getting home at 6pm school days. Of course, I have weekends and all school breaks off (unless I agree to drive summer school)



I was recently told by APS that they consider me responsible for her care because I’ve “done so in the past” establishing that I was willing to do it and that “choosing” to not do so nights & weekends / school breaks, since I don’t have to be at work those hours, if the PAID caregiver isn’t available (if I attend my children’s sporting events, want to go out of town for a weekend or take vacation time when my job allows for it) could & likely would result in being charged with neglect or even abandonment. If found “guilty” that would cost me my job because I’d no longer be able to work with children. That I MUST continue providing daily care 365 days a year—no days off, no vacation, no sick days, etc. no ability to relocate if I were to find a house elsewhere where a similar paying job would give my family a better quality of life due to lower cost of living.



I love my mom and honestly don’t mind helping out OCCASIONALLY (I *do* mind doing the work when a PAID caregiver is getting paid to do the job but refuses…doesn’t clean her bedside commode, won’t give her a bath / shower, etc….we’ve reported several instances, in each case they were simply moved to another client, even APS defended their ability to refuse certain tasks on my mom’s care plan because they could hurt themselves….so can I, I’ve hurt my back taking care of my mom several times, only difference is since I’m not officially an employee, I don’t have the ability to use L&I to help with medical bills or lost time from work like paid caregivers could). Can I be held responsible for her care to the point that if I dare to have any personal activities / vacation plans “interfere”, it’s grounds for neglect / abandonment accusations to stick because of me implying “duty of care” so I’m no longer allowed to do anything that takes me away from this unpaid job? I feel like I’d be set up to catch the blame regardless. If I’d just shrugged my shoulders and said “not my problem” when caregivers refused to do their job, I feel someone would have found fault with that; but since my conscience couldn’t allow me to see a need and not meet it, I’m forced into a job that I’m not allowed to quit (IF what APS is telling me is accurate, though my gut says it sounds like them trying scare tactics on me to get me to do the job as I’ve researched the law and can’t find anything backing up these claims but thought I’d ask where I can get answers from someone who knows).

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A big question here is whether or not you have accepted POA for your parent. This makes you responsible NOT for COSTS (even in states with filial law I have NEVER seen a child who is not very wealthy made responsible for costs, and they are NEVER responsible for care other than to see it is provided; it is very very very rarely used, this old law).
You would, if you are the appointed guardian or if you are POA be responsible for safe placement. This would mean applying for medicaid if Mom has no assets, or managing her assets for her care until they run out, and getting her safely placed.
The APS may consider you responsible but they have ZERO ability to enforce such a belief on their part, except to turn you over to legal authorities that DO have. No, no one will take you to court or ruin your job UNLESS you have taken on legal responsibility with accepting appointment as POA or Guardian.
If you have taken your Mom into your home you need to see now to her placement, and help her, if she has become dependent in the time she has lived with you, in applying for legal aid through medicaid (APS can and SHOULD help you with THAT; that should be their mandate, not idle threats).
I hope you will update us.
You should also, if you wish, see an elder law attorney for your duties, your obligations, legal advice, and an answer for APS. If you are POA you Mom's funds pay for your legal advice. If you are not you will pay for this yourself, and as attorneys are expensive you need to find a good and honest one who is paid by the HOUR to answer some few questions for you, not an attorney who wants a huge upfront fee and then says they will have to charge more to research. Any attorney worth his or her salt can find the answer to this in moments.
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WAunpaid Sep 2022
I do not have POA. My mom asked me and I refused (had already dealt with too much from APS and didn’t want anything that could indicate my being responsible for her / choices about her care.
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Its time for you to say ENOUGH! I'm responding to your reply below to notgoodenough. You go on the offensive and tell APS that they need to provide help. You can't do it all anymore. I was once in a position where somebody mentioned APS to me about my father. It never got to that point where they came out(they were going to come out the beginning of the week) because I sent him to the hospital and and the hospital was able to find placement. You tell them to help you because you can't do anymore.
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Tell that lying APS worker to go pound sand. You are responsible for your minor children.

When some "authority" tells me I have no choice, I respond with, "Show me the statute(s)".

If your mom needs so much help, it is time for her to go into a facility, not hijack you and your family's life to prop her up.

I think threatening family is part of the training for social workers. It bogus but, oh ever so effective.

No, you do not have to be an unpaid slave because APS threatened you. I would tell her that you won't speak with her unless she stops with the threats and intimidation, which is illegal.
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notgoodenough Sep 2022
I agreed with you until I read OP's response to some of my questions below.

While I think APS is being a little heavy handed, I also think OP might be in a bit of denial about her mom's cognitive abilities. Much as it pains me, APS might have some reasons to think OP's mom isn't getting the safest care she could be.
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WA, take your mother to the ER and tell them that you need a "social admit" and that her needs are beyond your ability.
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No, you aren’t responsible for anyone you don’t wish to caregive. Anyone who tells you otherwise or lays a guilt trip on you is lying or ignorant. It’s called “careGIVING” for a reason. You GIVE it. No one has the right to hogtie you and throw into this very difficult and messy arena. Since you are free to give it, you’re also free to take it away, which would be a really great idea. Get out and tend to your own business with a joyful heart.
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WAunpaid Sep 2022
This was my logic when they gave me the BS story that I “have to keep doing it”. Caregivers who APPLIED for the job and are getting paid to do it can change their mind, say they can’t do it (my mom is pretty heavy care and most caregivers come in like they expect to just have to be a companion and watch TV with her)…..by applying for and accepting the job they haven’t established any “duty of care” that makes them forced to do it for the rest of their life. So to say I am obligated and can’t choose to not do it (even temporarily to take my daughter on vacations during the summer) because I’m “abandoning” my mom reeked of BS threats.
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WA, welcome.

I would ask whoever told you that to put it in writing, on APS letterhead.

Some states have what are called "filial responsibility laws" which are open to interpretation as to the degree of liability one has to FINANCIALLY support an impoverished parent. I have not heard of those laws being used to compel direct service, but you might want to tell your principal what APS is threatening you with. I suspect your school district's lawyer could find out the truth.
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WAunpaid Sep 2022
WA state has no filial laws. As far as I can tell also nothing suggesting that it’s the law I “have to” continue being the on-demand caregiver when they can’t—or won’t get a caregiver in the home / the caregiver they do send doesn’t do their job. The agency my mom is with keeps telling her they’re “doing the best we can”…..but when I get on the website, they’ve got 25 caregivers available and aren’t sending anyone out.
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I'm going to assume the "WA" in your screen name stands for Washington State. Which is not a "filial responsibility" state.

I agree with Barb, insist on getting it in writing from APS. On letterhead. With a signature. Then find a *criminal* attorney (since APS is threatening you with possible criminal charges) and make an appointment and ask him/her if what APS has written is correct. I'm going to bet it's a big fat no. If that's the case, pay whatever fee is involved and have the attorney send a letter to APS telling them to cease this harassment of you or face a possible lawsuit.

What if you didn't live near mom? What if you were a single mom with small children you had to take care of? What if you needed to work several jobs to make ends meet? What if you yourself got sick and could no longer give mom the additional support? These are all real-life scenarios. Does APS threaten all of them too?

Just wondering how APS got involved in the first place? It's not like they monitor every elderly person in their jurisdiction, usually they get involved because they've been notified that there might be a vulnerable elder.

If mom has *paid* caregivers who aren't doing their jobs taking care of her, let APS go after them or the agency who oversees them. Sounds to me like whoever you spoke to doesn't want to do anything more than the bare minimum, and you seemed to be the "easy" target.
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WAunpaid Sep 2022
yes, I’m in WA state. No, we have no filial laws here (I also haven’t found any law even suggesting that by meeting my mom’s needs when caregivers didn’t — either because they were too lazy or because the agency didn’t send anyone for weeks at a time— makes me obligated to continue and never be allowed to quit doing so)

I had a coworker suggest getting a lawyer…..at least know if there’s any truth to their claims (which my gut feels there isn’t) and if I felt possible, take them to court for harassment. 

In the past year I’ve been investigated for abuse / neglect when my mom’s care wasn’t provided four times. One of which, I can see as justified in making sure it was an accident and not something deliberately done….. I’d driven my mom to a Drs appointment 3 hrs away in her car which has no A/C because she couldn’t get in my car. Temps reached 118* that day. when we got home, I went to get her wheelchair and heard my 10 year old daughter say “wait grandma, you don’t have shoes on”. By the time I dropped the wheelchair and got to her door, she’d already put both bare feet on the hot pavement. I had my daughter call 911 while I tried to pull her back into the SUV, but couldn’t budge 335 lbs of dead weight. By the time the ambulance arrived, she had 2nd & 3rd degree burns on the bottom of her feet. She was also suffering from heat exhaustion. So yeah I can see that be a legitimate concern to be sure wasn’t something I’d intentionally done….I do feel they tried to manipulate my mom into saying anything that could be interpreted as it being my fault it occurred as the investigation involved about 5 visits from APS almost interrogating my mom rephrasing the same questions. The others have all been due to caregivers reporting me for my mom’s depend “being wet“, her wearing the same shirt multiple days (my mom CHOOSES to not change daily due to not being able to afford laundry if she charges daily….. last time I had any type of caregiver training (20-something years ago) she’s of sound mind so has the right to refuse to change clothes, shower, etc and as far as the depend….They’re coming in 3.5 - 5+ hrs after I’ve left for work and she’s completely incontinent…yeah she’s probably wet.

like I said, so far all the investigations have been “inconclusive” but it leaves me scared that with enough investigations they’ll eventually decide I’m at fault. So having a lawyer tell them to quit with the harassment sounds like a good idea (as far as I know, the paid caregivers never deal with this when they choose to not do their job…. Even when we’ve reported it, APS actually defends them saying they could get hurt…. So can I. I’ve hurt my back several times taking care of my mom, only difference is since I’m not an employee I have no L&I to help pay medical bills or lost wages)
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You don't need to pay for a lawyer, I saw that mentioned here. Just tell the state social workers you are unable to be there 24/7 because of job responsibilities and she needs more care than you can provide. It is too much for you. As long as you try to get assistance through APS. You are not going to be charged with abandonment or neglect as long as you seek help. It doesn't matter that you live with her, you still don't have to be her forced caregiver. Just let APS know you can't do it all by yourself and you need to work to make a living.
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Isthisrealyreal Sep 2022
Yes she can, she is talking about moving out, leaving a 335#, obviously incompetent woman alone. She can not just walk out, she has to get her into care or she can be prosecuted for endangering this vulnerable seniors life. Crickey, she can't even use the toilet by herself.

APS isn't requiring her to do 24/7, they are saying she can not just abandon her without getting her the care she needs.

This is what happens when you move into a parents house to provide care and then decide to leave. You can leave but, you have certain responsibilities, that you accepted by moving in. She knew mom needed 24/7 care, that's why she moved in. Now she has to do everything she can to ensure mom is getting the care she needs.

Someone that steps on the hot ground and can't help get themselves off of it, is not of sound mind, by any stretch of the imagination.

She should definitely see a lawyer before she moves out and leaves her mom.
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Waunpaid, let me tell you what I went through with my father, maybe it will help. I lived with my father for years. He was a stroke survivor on a fixed income, but was still able to be independent for many years. We shared expenses. Eventually though, he developed PD and dementia. I took on more and more responsibilities, taking him to Dr's, shopping, paying his bills out of his account, eventually helping him get dressed and taking him to bathroom and preparing meals. The problem though, is I still had to work 50 hours a week to make ends meet. We couldn't afford in home caregivers either. The Dr's and nurses were no help, but one day one of the nurses called me and in a somewhat threatening manner mentioned APS might get involved. I was flabbergasted, I was under immense stress, not sleeping and the ominous sound of APS sent me over the edge. I needed help yet there was none. I certainly didn't want APS getting into our business either. I don't know what they would have done, but I certainly couldn't lose my job. We'd be bankrupt, and in risk of losing housing. I wasn't able to manage him by myself anymore anyway. My guess is they would have found placement for him. I acted before that happened by calling 911.
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Beatty Sep 2022
The threatening manner of that nurse sounds an awful experience. Especially as you were doing your all 😞.

Do you think (looking back) it was a tactic? That the nurse smelt caregiver burnout wafting off you & wanted to wake you up before you burnt to death? *Tough Love* To get a better care plan for your Dad + restore some sort of balance to you before you stroked out yourself?
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I'm sorry to say this, WA, but the more you post about your situation, the more I'm starting to see why APS is taking the stance with you that it is. For example -

You say:
"My mom is 78.

She is incapable of doing anything herself. She can feed herself (if food is put in front of her and cut up). She cannot stand on her own—we currently use a sit to stand for transfers, A few years ago was much different. If I wanted to go out of town, things needed to be set up for her (mostly pots, pans, utensils & dishes on the kitchen counter so she didn’t have to bend over / reach up to get them out of cupboards), but other than that she could transfer to / from bed, wheelchair, toilet / commode, recliner, etc, cook her own meals & do her own dishes, and put on / take off her own depends. In her mind, she can get back to that point (nobody else believes it). In our rural area, not uncommon for Dr appointments with specialists to be 3 hrs away."


And in regards to your mom's caregivers:
"They’re coming in 3.5 - 5+ hrs after I’ve left for work and she’s completely incontinent…yeah she’s probably wet."

Can you really *not* see that your mom can't be left alone? That it is a dangerous situation? I can't blame her caregivers for reporting a person for whom they are responsible to APS in this situation, if only to protect themselves! This has nothing to do with a "wet depends", or the caregivers not wanting to do their jobs, this is a dangerous situation for your mom!

You need to reach out to APS and tell them you need help getting mom into a facility where her needs can be met! It's very clear you have little interest in being mom's caregiver during the times that she has no paid help, and THAT'S FINE! You have a child and a job and a life and you aren't willing to sacrifice any of those things to be mom's caregiver and THAT'S FINE! It doesn't make you a bad daughter, but you need to OWN it that you don't want to be mom's caregiver and reach out for help before a tragedy occurs! Get her placed somewhere that she can get the care she needs, and be her advocate while she lives there, but b****ing about how unfairly you feel APS is treating you, how you feel they are persecuting you for no good reason you is, frankly, you just burying your head in the sand and insisting all is well when clearly it is not!

I sincerely wish you well with this.
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WAunpaid Sep 2022
Your replying to exactly what my question was….. according to APS I’m “not allowed” to back off and say “hey her care needs have increased beyond my abilities, new arrangements need to be made” I started doing the caregiving and am obligated to continue no matter the cost to me (quitting / losing my job because *her needs* don’t allow me time for a job, my own health as I have been hurt several times trying to do the care alone, etc) not to mention the affect is having on my 10 year old daughter. She doesn’t outright say so but I see signs she resents her grandma because she is aware of what we “can’t do because grandma needs us”.
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