Is there any way to break the negative loop of being around a narcissistic mother?

Granddaughter83 -absolutely true. You can't break through the fantasy world they live in. Well said.

Davina - amen about the scripture about not abusing your children.
Mother has vascular dementia so she is wheelchair or bed bound due to the muscular weakness that comes with that disease. Other than that she is in very good health. Yes, it can go on a long time and that is why I promote self care. You only have one life and you only have today to live it. I don't believe God gave us a life to be completely subject to the needs of another unless we are specifically called to that, and I don't believe many are. I certainly am not. I just came back from a short trip with a friend, having seen and done new things, as well as looked at NHs for mother. For every trip I take to look after mother's business, I build in something for myself. Please work on that aspect of your life. You may be surprised what is out there. :) After 15 years of singleness due to divorce, I decided to start being social again - in my 70s. It has been very interesting to say the least.

Golden23--Wow, your narcissistic mom is 105 with no problems and you are 80!! This stuff can go on a lonnnnng time. Glad you have your own friends and life; that's my weak spot. Take care!

Justone, There is also a biblical commandment not to irritate and abuse your children. But you don't hear much about that one because parents through the ages have touted the one about honoring them.

mlface I've personally tried that road. The problem with a true Narcissistic personality disorder is they believe the stories they tell you, and will be offended by you believing differently. You may have all the evidence in the world, but it won't matter to them. They will punish you in various ways if you don't believe the lie they tell themselves. They will view you as someone to be suspicious of if you happen to be an evidence collector that can shatter their view of the world. I've seen that turn into a whole other mess when they've decided they hate you, and do whatever is necessary to make others hate you as well. My grandmother did this for years, trying to make me hate my father, who is the nicest guy but always saw right through grandma. She treats him like dirt, and anyone who is loyal to him, even though he has spent more time caring for her than her own 5 sons. I wish this was the kind of thing that could be corrected with the truth, but it's not. It's a delusional world they expect you to buy into, like it or not.

Would recording those bad moments then next day say I want you to listen to this & tell me who it is? Would it bring realization?

There certainly is a group of us here. I understand the dysfunction. Been there, done that, still am and still learning.

My mother has Borderline Personality Disorder and is narcissistic. Now she has developed vascular dementia. I live 5 hours drive away and see to all business/financial/health matters, but not hands on care. When she was in an ALF, she took herself to her med appointments, or later a hired caregiver took her. I visited a few times a year, ran a few errands for her and left if she got nasty. I went to dr's appountments a few times, when I felt it was necessary. She actually is pretty healthy apart from the BPD and VaD. Now she is in a ALF who has doctors attached and is seen by one there. The staff are very good at calling me if anything is out of the ordinary. She soon will be moved to an NH with the same situation. I attend case meetings, or even call them when I feel there is an issue to be addressed. I do not visit often (every few months) as I have PTSD from childhood verbal and emotional abuse, and then do not stay long. It does not take much to trigger the PTSD. Mother is now 105 and has no comorbidities so may live a few more years yet. I just turned 80 and have a life apart from mother and have made sure all along that I do. You have to look after yourself. You will never do enough, nor do it well enough for a narcissist, so you have to make your own judgements/choices about your role.

As to breaking the loop - a leogard does not change its spots. I see one poster has been successful in getting a different response. Good for you. My mother has softened a bit due to meds.I have reduced contact for self preservation. Once when she was complaining about how I did things, I asked her if she wanted to find someone else to do it. She became very quiet,

As to abusive phone calls or other conversations, you can hang up or walk away. I finally refused to participate in them. Once, many, many,years ago, I cut contact for a year. It softened things a bit, for a while...

As to being slandered, I developed a thick skin and when I felt it was appropriate I spoke to the person involved, sometimes successfully, (more often) sometimes not.

As to others saying how lovely your mother is, I just smile and say, "That's nice."

As to forgiveness - it is ongoing for me, for my peace of mind.

Wishing you all the best, Amber. (((((((Hugs))))). It is a hard row to hoe.

I speak from many years of experience. If someone is nasty and abusive to you and you are doing all you can to take care of them, S T O P. Realize it will only get worse, it will NOT improve. You must remove yourself from the negative person and place them if that is the only way you can accomplish that. Then think on the good times you had and let go of any guilt. You did all you could do which is more than many people would do. Good luck.

Wow, this sure hit a nerve with people, didn't it?
I know this has been a struggle for you most of your life.
I think the reason so many of us identify with your story is that so many of us did not get the parenting that we deserved. We all wanted parents who were loving ,kind, and supportive.
Instead we just get plain people who are formed and limitted by their own disappointments ,experiences and generations of parents who really did not know anything other than how they were parented.
So you have really done well. You have figured out that you can not change your damaged mother. You did not cause her to be the way she is, it's not your fault, so you can not change it.
The task now to the road to peace is to look at changing the only one you can. Yourself. Just cutting down on seeing her helps, but it is not enough. I know, I tried it.
For me it was about learning to really let go. I learned about forgiveness and that's what changed everything. You do not have to have any or a particular religious belief in order to forgive.It just begins with deciding to start now.
If I forgive,rather than hurt and rant and think endlessly about how unfair it is and how terrible she treated me, I free my self from all the pain and endless resentment. I just remind myself that she did the best she could with what she had, and I forgive her. It does'nt mean I condone her behavior, but means I chose not to carry all the pain any more.
It's a process, and you need to have patience. There are may books about forgiveness, so I just started reading. Now When I start to to feel hurt and angry with someone, I just say to myself that I forgive them. For me, not for them.
It changed my life, it gives me peace and acceptance.
I hope this is helpful, and allows you to give yourself forgiveness.

Sorry, had to post one more time to get to pg 2 of the answer ...

I've known enough narcs to know these people won't stop or change. The best thing you can do is sever the toxic relationship for your own good. Think of your own sanity and well-being. Take a break from her and see if you don't feel better right away. Another trick I would pull is to have a separate phone for your more important numbers and keep her number in your old phone but just switch it off. Only take her calls as you feel like it, otherwise just don't take her calls. When you discover how much you like your new life without her, you can actually remove her number from the old phone or maybe even just go ahead and disconnect that particular phone from service or even change your number. You don't have to take no crap from her and hopefully you don't live with her. If not, you can just leave and not return. If you do live with her, I would get my support network in there and get everything of mine out of there. Hopefully she doesn't live with you in your place. If so, you'll have to start the eviction process and send a strong message that this just isn't working. If you happen to own the home and thought of selling, you can just put it up for sale and sell it but don't take her with you or tell her where you're going. In fact, don't even tell her you're selling the home, let her figure it out. If you're renting your place, you can secretly make arrangements with your landlord to get out of your lease and just have everything turned over to the narc when you move out. If you're on a month-to-month, just move at the end of the month but don't tell her, let her figure it out.

You can also find all of the aging resources in your area and use them to get her into alternate placement.

She's going to end up continuing to take advantage of you, and hopefully she's not on your bank account. Never have a narc on your bank account, big huge mistake! If so, have your bank remove her name and tell them what's going on and tell them she's taking advantage of you financially. You can have them block her access or remove her from your account. If she has a debit card to that account, you can stop back card or remove it from your account. I've seen indirectly what happens when a narc is on someone's bank account. Let's say you're on Social Security and you add someone to your bank account who turns out to be a narc. That narc wastes their money on booze or tobacco and lives large at your expense. This risky behavior may include taking out loans in your name, renting stuff from rent to own places with your money, etc. At the end of the month they may bring your account into the negative knowing the checks will run out soon and pay off any fees. However they use your money, they are never happy and made frequently send back rented furniture or other merchandise and exchange it for new stuff. If they expect a free ride from you, this is why victims are always broke. They hate your stuff and will find some clever way to get you to part with it. This may happen secretly between narc and the victim behind the backs of unsuspecting customers who may buy that merchandise not knowing what's really going on. Narcs may insult your vehicle for starters, telling you everything that's wrong with it. Let's say they also happen to ride in that same vehicle. You know longer have to take them in your vehicle if all they're going to do is complain about it. Let's say it happens to be a motorcycle and you don't carry passengers or lend it out. You may get this bike recently and the narc may be tickled pink over it at first until they start getting tired of seeing it and criticize it and how often it's been in the shop just to try to get you to sell it. If you sell it, they'll find clever ways to get that money from you even if it happens to be little by little. Don't give in to any of the pressures. I happen to have a gas scooter and the narc I knew criticized by bike at some point, especially since I had it in and out of the shop replacing original parts since it's an old bike and the parts needed replaced. The narc really hated this and I now realize he probably did this because he was upset at the fact the shop was getting that money and he wasn't. It really didn't click until much later after I already lost hundreds of dollars. Narcs have clever ways of blind siding you and telling very convincing stories to get money from you. I know because it not only happened to me, but come to find out, it also happened to a friend of mine who happened to be his live-in girlfriend despite the fact they were both separated from their spouses and still married. Eventually the tables turned on the narc and come to find out if the apartment was in her name and not both names so she was able to kick him out. At some point around that time, she called her husband and daughter and they moved in with her. They protected her against any further contact with the narc, knowing he could return anytime and try to get back into her life. It wasn't until later I started watching YouTube videos and learning about narcissism. Everything that was described sounded just like the very person who turned out to be a narc. I started warning others about him when I could so they know how to spot narcissism and run for the hills. What's funny is the narc was a chain smoker and ended up smoking himself to death but I suspect in addition to that, he most likely got a hold of some illegal street drugs his new supply was using. It's just funny how they died days apart and I only found out about the drugs after they both died. The narc died first, and within days of each other, I think about three, the new supply also died. I now think it must've been heroin, are used to think it was either that or cocaine but it could've been anything. I think if memory recalls right I think it was heroin that was mentioned by someone who used to know this particular person as well as the narc. I have learned much through hindsight which is a very good teacher. What's so good about no longer having the narc around is that I can now save money and  he won't get a dime of it nor can he ever get another dime from anyone else ever again, he's dead because God intervened and removed him. At some point I've noticed God intervenes at some point and you can't help but wonder if your calling and your purpose may actually involve the importance of having money and certain resources to enable you to do the work he wants you to do. You never know what that work may involve, but whatever it is may likely involve me having enough money to be able to have resources I otherwise can't have. I just know the money and resources is not just for me alone, I'm to do something constructive but I just don't know what right now. Without the money, I can't have the tools to do whatever God wants me to do and the narc who was draining me financially was preventing that. My purpose must've been important enough for God to have to intervene and remove the narc in the matter he did, this is just my guess as I continue to wonder. You must look at your calling and your purpose and wonder what God has for you  because the narc will try to prevent you from pursuing that calling and for filling that purpose by draining you financially. 

Perfect example 

Look at hurricane Harvey of 2017 for instance. If narcs whatever financially and otherwise drained the people who helped flood victims and evacuees, there's no possible way those first responders would've had the tools and money needed to help all of those people who lost everything. This story is only one good example of why to never have a narc hanging around, get rid of the narc because you never know when God may call on you to help even save lives with what money and resources you have. This won't be possible with a narc hanging around draining you. It not only puts a strain on you but poses a risk to others who may later need you

I'm just here to commiserate. I feel so many of you. You can't fix them. You're doing better than most can. I'm awful sick of the "I love your grandma" people. I thought it myself before I became my mom's back-up for Grandma's care. I thought she was such a sweet lil' ol' lady. HA! I called her at 11am to wish her a happy birthday and spent a minute listening to her berate me (apparently I sound just like my mom on the phone) for not calling her sooner. "Well it's about time you called me. What good are you?" When I asked who she thought she was talking to she got quiet, and then just flipped the switch, "Oh hi honey who is this?" "Oh thank you for calling me sweety." But I could never get that out of my head. I still made excuses for her until we moved here to help. Then she was trying to triangulate me against my mom, my dad, and anyone else she deemed unworthy. (she tried that when I was a little girl, and it didn't work then either) I spent the first year telling her, "I understand you don't like 'so n so' but they are '____' to me so please don't talk about them like that around me. It's not ok" Well eventually she decided she didn't like me because she couldn't manipulate me, and all h*ll broke loose. She got all my uncles to believe she was supporting us not the other way around, and they got a lawyer and tried to accuse us of elder abuse. They've exhausted their legal options, and APS found no wrong doing. But she managed to get the whole family to call me "evil" and the "anti-christ" because I had the audasticy to have documentation to prove she was lying. She's in the beginning of dementia, but that can't be all of her new strange behavior. Not considering her past behavior she hides so well. She changes her story too fluidly. At any rate. I can appreciate the position you are all in. You are not alone. (((HUGS)))) to the lot of you.

When my mother is acting out, I say in my head, "not my monkeys. Not my circus." Out loud, I say, " I will leave you now. I 'll come back some other time."

Justone. I don't believe you need to love your mother. I have worked on this one. I cannot love my mother, but I can see that she is well cared for and eventually I felt compassion for her. Love can't be self willed. Only behavior can be.

I had the same story...my Mom's abuse was horrible, and I was a victim of it for a long time. Once they have that power and control over you, there is no changing them. I changed myself. I realized she was wrong, and pathetic, walked away from the abuse, and kept coming back with love and understanding that she was uncurable and pathetic. I killed her with love...walked away when she started the negative bs...came back with love and understanding (even if it was fake, I smiled,) The love started to change her! I did not feed her other fire. All she got from me was love...she started to give it back...I brought her joy at the end of her life, and I felt good about myself, to be so strong and good. The negativity is theirs to own, not yours. Love yourself truly, and love them beyond their sickness. My mom took her last breath muttering "I love you;"

I had the same story...my Mom's abuse was horrible, and I was a victim of it for a long time. Once they have that power and control over you, there is no changing them. I changed myself. I realized she was wrong, and pathetic, walked away from the abuse, and kept coming back with love and understanding that she was uncurable and pathetic. I killed her with love...walked away when she started the negative bs...came back with love and understanding (even if it was fake, I smiled,) The love started to change her! I did not feed her other fire. All she got from me was love...she started to give it back...I brought her joy at the end of her life, and I felt good about myself, to be so strong and good. The negativity is theirs to own, not yours. Love yourself truly, and love them beyond their sickness. My mom took her last breath muttering "I love you;"

I am unable to answer your question about breaking out of the negativity loop because I struggle with that myself. But I sympathize with dealing with the clueless "enjoy your mother" folks. Wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard, "Your mom is so sweet -- I just love her!" She is not sweet. Mother carefully cultivates that public persona but of course that is not the side of her I see. 

She also criticizes me behind my back.  Some of this may have a grain of truth but there is always so much more to the issue.  And sometimes she flat out lies about me.  I wish that people would give me the benefit of the doubt. But folks in this small town indulge in mean gossip and seem to embrace fresh stories, the more negative, the better.

How do I deal with this? I ignore it as much as possible and I have prepared a few bland, nonconfrontational phrases to use if any of these folks have the temerity to confront me on the street and think they are going to criticize me or give me advice. Examples:

"Thanks, we are all doing the best we can." (walk away)

"Thanks for your feedback. I will give that the thought it deserves." (walk away)

"Unfortunately, I am unable to help Mother because she won't listen to me." (walk away)

I also cultivate a network of friends who do not know my mother. Good luck to you. Many good suggestions are being posted here.

I have the same problems with my Mother. I am an only child so she relies on me for everything even though to her I can't do anything right. She has been living in a nursing home for over 5 years. I agree with most of you that I need to set boundaries and stick to them. However, I am a Christian and the 5th Commandment says to Honor your Father and Mother. I pray all the time that I am doing God's will as I deal with her verbal abuse to me. She makes it very hard to love her, but I know I need to. Does anyone have this inner turmoil as well?

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Hi!
I'm in the same situation except that I live with my mom and she basically said the same thing when my father passed what was she going to do now..if I were you I'd explain to the staff at her facility how she is affecting you and that your siblings will have to take over because you are no longer up to the task and are going no contact. Let them figure it out. You have to start caring for yourself. It didn't dawn on me until I got pneumonia that I needed to start putting myself first then my family (I have one son). If we don't take care of ourselves who will? Plus we won't be any good to anyone else either. So I "put my own oxygen mask on first" and then care for my son. Mom comes last because she is also narcissistic!!! (Believe me I have a lifetime of medical bills to show for it from her bullying!!) Not to mention I was in the nursing field any it was like going from the frying pan into the fire they are all like my mom!! (Thank God for my new sales job!!) So, I hope this helps and All the Best! Take care of You First- and definitely go No Contact! You'll eventually start to feel better. Good Luck and keep us posted!

I am so sorry for your predicament; I am in the same one except There's no other family and my mother is not in a facility. Since she fell in december my spouse and I have uncovered what we have long speculated: she lies, cheats, maneuvers, manipulated us to get what she needs, which is constant attention and focus, including having us pay many of her bills while she reconciles having a shopping addiction (she's on medicaid and is now income restricted). Over the last year I have had to put up an impenetrable force field: I feel nothing for her any longer. I take her to her doctors. I make sure she has food. I make sure she is safe. But anything that might put me in her line of Fire is off limits. As for you: I agree you need face time with doctors and you should continue to do that. But the instant that your visit with your mother devolves, leave. Not because she'll get some sort of message: she won't. She has NPD. But to protect yourself. Be firm in this. Remember that after she is gone you will continue to live and you must do so with the knowledge that you had enough respect for yourself to take care of your own health, mental and otherwise. The kindness that we show to the narcisstic seniors around us we MUST also show to ourselves. Often we don't. Be safe and best of luck

AmberA, what stood out most to me in your post: "she lives unhappily..."
And that is just the way they seem to live, til the end. Its almost like its the way they wish to live their lives, like that. Those types of individuals.
Only happy when they drag you down. Or so it seems. Is it dementia? Is it the personality? Is it the anger phase of the dementia that can last for years in some?
How much are you willing to take on?  If circumstances state you must be present try not to give her your energies... only surface talk, change topics often, don't make eye contact with her for eg look just past her, or just over her head - it throws them off.  
They're just looking for energy feeds.  Its just what they do.  Til the end.
Adding to best wishes to all who are dealing with this.  

I hear your pain. Some parents can be irrationally difficult, even if they are not elderly and in assisted care. My wife lives in a similar relationship to her 89 year old mother. Her mother's expectations and demands have been a problem for her whole life. Sometimes you have to recognize that a relationship just doesn't work, so you learn to take care of yourself first. Some who read this will think it's harsh, but being a parent does not give a person the right to abuse another, mentally or physically. I highly recommend you read "Toxic Parents, Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life" by Susan Forward, Ph.D. She addresses many of the issues regarding the kind of relationship you describe. Take care of yourself. That may mean less contact with your mother. You cannot allow your mother's manipulation, guilt and negativity to control you.

I agree with Pattiac "Its always been about them and it always will be". My MIL has this type of behavior. She constantly lashes out to family members that have cared for her for over 20 years. On a regular basis, she has made staff at her assisted living facility cry. She always instigated conflict within the family. Everything is always about her. She usually is never happy about anything, complains about everything and states no one does anything for her.

My BIL and SIL who deals with most of this couldn't take it any more. They have distanced themselves from her. She is 94 and has been like this most of her life. Distance yourself; the negativity is all consuming. My family members say their life is better now, they are not constantly talking about how mom has upset them. Just explain to mom you are not going to accept this behavior any more.  You can still be involved by talking to staff, doctors etc.  Sorry you have to go through this.

I've posted on this site about my narcissistic mother, and empathize greatly with you all. Great advice here, especially about allowing someone else to take your place whenever needed. You can be direct about why so your mother will see the consequences.
One thing I have learned from my narcissistic mother, is that she does NOT see me as a separate person, just one that is an extension of herself that she thinks she can manipulate into doing what she wants. I have learned to dig in and remind her that I am my own person. We just went through another tirade about how I'm not doing enough for her, and I really lit into her in the most controlled way possible under attack, and left. She called two hours later with one of the first apologies I've ever received (instead of the blame). Don't listen to anyone who gives you the advice that doesn't fit the circumstance. They haven't a clue.
I'm fortunate to have a great support system of family and friends who have all seen my mother in action. One of my best friends is also helping with my mother, since she still lives alone and refuses outside help. When it comes to that need, we will be making the best choices for her health and safety.
This site has helped to keep me focused and remind me that amid all this is ME, a person who also has needs and a life that shouldn't suffer because of my mother's unreasonable demands, guilt trips, and feigned issues.
It's important to point out that this didn't start when our parents got older, but started from an early age in our lives, and we are at the edge of our patience (or beyond) yet want to be as respectful, caring, and decent as we can with a person who hasn't truly appreciated a thing we've ever done or given up for them.
It's always been about them and it always will be. We search our individual consciences to find the best solution that we can live with and have no regrets. I can honestly say that after years of establishing and keeping boundaries and refusal to give in beyond what I feel comfortable doing, I am at that place.
Wishing everyone the best in this most difficult situation.

Hi Amber,

I'd go even less contact and tell her why. If she keeps it up I'd go no contact and tell her why.

My mom has narcissistic personality disorder. I was completely estranged from her for 15 years. I know how cruel these people can be while appearing to be angels to the outside world. I'm living near my mom again but now I confront her about what she does and how it damages me and our family and that helps. However, she doesn't actively slander me and if she did I'd be gone.

Please put yourself first for a change.

Were that times past that were better? Were you always the person that efficiently handled things? I witnessed my grandmother treat one of her children this way. It was the one child she had been closest to, who had been her greatest help. When illness strained the daughters ability to make everything "right", the punishment began. My grandmother could never forgive that daughter for "failing" her. The relationship was broken.
I say you step back, way back. Don't give in to the need to do everything you are currently doing. Break the habit. Be polite, and find a small way to show your love. Life will go on and you'll have more peace.
I am caring for my mom now. I leave jobs to other people even when I feel I would do it better. I find more peace when I let go and back away some. And mom appreciates a break from bossy me. That's hard to take but I actually appreciate it more and more. 

Good job. Sometimes you just have to speak out. My grandmother would badmouth whomever was not in the room at the time. Once she was complaining about a gift my cousin gave her. She was really nasty. I finally said "what do you say about my gift when I am not around?". First time ever she shut up.

lkdry: You'd be glad to know I finally just lost it on one of my aunts tonight. I have been listening to her complain (and complain and complain and complain) about how terrible she feels and how awful one of my cousins is... said cousin is a nurse and has saved this aunt probably tens of thousands in free health care. It's not a stretch to say aunt would be dead without her.

And you know what? I don't feel even a little guilty... maybe I should have done this months ago. I just flat out said 'what happened to my aunts who used to *care* about my cousins and me, not fail to notice how far we're going to help..'  and more.

Guess we'll see what the fallout is. I hope it involves her calling me to complain less often.

Since she is a church attender that hasn't seemed to grasp the gospel just quote phillipians 4 :6-9 at her every time she spouts off.

My Dad was very much like that! I finally just took yo turning around and walking away when he would start that crap! I told him many times that the day was coming when I would stop doing things for him.

But, I finally hired a wonderful aide for him. He caused a few to quit abruptly rather than deal with him...but the last aide was a wonder! She stood up to his crap, and one day put it straight to his face..."do you want me to leave?" He got real quiet...then said "no". He never dropped crap on her again,

From my perspective, it was great having her coming everyday...I just avoided him till she arrived.

Can you do the same? Do the absolute minimum and leave the NH to do everything? When Mom starts the crap..just ask "do you want me to leave?" If you keep abusing me, I will. Then leave it to her.

It didn't work for me...I ended up cutting my contact to next to nothing. It worked for my dads aide...maybe you?

The people who tell you to 'enjoy' your mother have no clue what they are talking about. Dementia or not I see no reason why you can't tell her that you don't have to be there. Let her have the facility take her to a couple appointments. Let her find out what it is like to not have the personal attention her own child brings to her. My father's AL takes him to all his appointments and his weekly ER run. I don't get involved in any of it. When I do visit he does try to get me to take him to the doctor or ER (his favorite hobby as I call it). He wants the personal attention.

Another tactic would be to cut the visit short once she gets abusive. Give her a warning and if she doesn't back off get up and leave. Maybe get only 20 minutes the first time but after that leave for the day. She needs to suffer the consequences of her actions. That is the problem I see in so many posts. The poster lets the elder get away with such terrible behavior and then can't figure out why it keeps happening. It happens because you tolerate it. So many blame the disease. Disease or not I am not going to put up with abuse from someone I am going out of my way to help.