As her POA, how do I protect Mom from a manipulative relative trying to get money?

What does her husband have to say, her money is his, correct?, Both names her/him on accounts together? Does he not have an opinion. Lots of questions to what you wrote. What about money to provide for him. POA SUBMITTED to bank let's them know you have access to their acct, etc. BUT as long as they have sound mind etc., it is theirs to do as they want. Just curious if you have been handling for them anyway, going to bank on their behalf, etc., where both are unable to. You and your sister just need to make them aware they do not have money for relative to hand over, that it is needed for them. And if either of them ever gets on Medicaid they will need to know where the money went (checks for proof the relative was paid), then if gets own Medicaid that person will more than likely have to return the money if she/he did not have correct documents about being used for the wellcare of brother, same goes if her husband has to get on Medicaid.

I had to tell my bum of a brother i do not owe him any explanation of my mothers finance. If he wants to pursue the matter, consult an attorney file the proper paper work and ask the judge. If the court finds reason for me to disclose my mothers business i will comply.

He is older and declined to help or step up as her POA. He said "I want to take care of her, but i don't want to be responsible for her."
We signed a POA and i have done everything since.
He asked for all her banking records. He has not worked in Years.

What about contacting an Elder Law Attorney, the Bet Tzedek Legal Services for a referral or the Family Counseling Services of the Alzheimer's Los Angeles at (323) 930-6212.

Jneeley: Oh, my - I just picked up on the fact that the relative embezzled from a veterans' organization?!?! Wow! NO - she does NOT get to control finances!

I quickly scanned thru posts. If Mom is showing signs of Dementia, then in my opinion she is no longer able to reason. This is the first thing I noticed in Mom but was not aware at the time it was the Dementia.

The reason given is Aunt is looking for money for brothers care. So I am concentrating on the brother for now. What are his disabilities? I asked before, is he on SS disability. Once he was 18, did parents need guardianship? If not, then he is considered emancipated. Meaning he is an adult and can make his own decisions.

To suppliment what my nephew receives, he is employed at an ARC workshop. They aren't obligated to pay minimum wage but it gives them a little money. They have interaction with others. The facility has parties and dancing for them. A bus picks my nephew up and drops him back home.
My nephew has physical and neurological problems but can live independently. He received SSD. With that Medicare and Medicaid. With Medicaid he receives vision and dental. He is now signed up with the State Disabilities and they provide him with a voucher to live in an apartment. He is able to apply for food stamps and help with utilities. If he needed to, he could use the food closets and government help.

If brother is not able to live on his own, there are group homes. If she is using him to get to ur Mom then u have to find other means of support for him. Hopefully, someone has POA and its immediate.

JNeeley, have you seen an Elder Law Attorney yet? Would love to see an update and hear what conclusions you have reached. Hope you are doing well.

She embezzled from a Veterans' organization?

Oh my.

Oh my.

Sorry, gone blank, that hit a very tender spot with me.

Well. She shouldn't be in charge of any dependants' finances; and I think you'll find that's true for her grandson as well as your brother. But that doesn't of itself mean that she can't be a good caregiver - just that their finances, specifically, need to be under a fitter person's control. That's okay, that can be arranged.

Where's the disabled grandson's parent? Still on the scene?

And what on earth possessed your mother to reach out to her when your brother needed help? No other options at all?

If the POA document states you may take care of her personal business, finances, etc. then Yes, I believe you can stop this. You keep control of her checkbook, etc.

If your partially disabled brother get Social Security Disability then he has an income that your relative possibly controls. You can also contact Adult Protective Services to see if they have advice. THE BEST OPTION IS PROBABLY TO CONTACT A LAWYER WHO IS EXPERIENCED IN ELDER LAW. This type of lawyer can help separate your father's assets from your mother's so he will not have to sell his house if you has to go into a skilled nursing facility. You also need to have your mother examined so it can be determined if she is or is not competent.

Jneeley: Your mother must stop this enabling because IF and WHEN she has to apply for Medicaid, the 5 year look back will come into play and if she keeps this up, Medicaid may disqualify.

I guess I would ask how is mom getting the money in the first place. Its easy to not have cash and if she has a bank card, take it. What can she say and to whom? You have POA

Does brother or relative’s son qualify for the AFC program where the relative as the caregiver would receive a monthly payment for the care of the disabled individuals? If they actually qualify for in-home care the caregiver may qualify to provide that care as an hourly rate through the Consumer Directed Care program. 
 
Mother should no longer be sending funds because if she needs assistance there will be a 5 year look-back on her spending and the funds would need to be paid back before she would qualify or they would determine a payback period that mother would have to wait before she would qualify.

I think you need more clarity on your brother's situation.

He lived independently, then his injury and longstanding difficulties made his independence unsustainable, so the relative removed him from his home and took him to live with her. His benefit payments are now used to maintain him in her home.

But your mother's $300 per month. This was intended to be a temporary arrangement to tide him over new benefit applications, yes? When exactly did all this happen?

What I'm thinking is that unless your brother can be seen as being your mother's dependant, in some formal way, then the payments she's making for him are gifts; and they are going to be looked on as such by Medicaid, and you're going to run into trouble.

I am glad that you have been careful to note that continuation of your mother's habits and preferences is an important criterion in decisions you make with POA; so it is; but actually I don't think there'll be any option if you need to plan for a Medicaid application. She won't be able to continue the payments because she doesn't have the money.

Going back to your brother. When your mother asked her relative to "rescue" him, did your mother give her any assurances about financial support? If so, what were they? I don't suppose anyone put anything in writing, did they..?

Does your brother have mental capacity? Is he capable of making his own decisions? If so, is anyone talking to him about his future care? I appreciate that having a purposeful conversation with a person with ADD is not fun, but unless there's been some legal recognition to the contrary he remains responsible for his own welfare.

I wonder if the way to go is to tell your mother *she* needs to get legal advice on including provision for him in her own plans. The advantage to put to her is that this may lead to improved security for his long term, when she's no longer around to see to it.

I don't want to pry. But you introduced this relative as disreputable and a con artist. She is living on a pension, taking care of her learning disabled grandchild, and now taking care of a 59 year old man with a physical disability and long standing learning difficulty. Um. You know best, of course, she may just be in it for the money for all I know, but your view does come across as perhaps a little lacking in sympathy. Has she done anything to deserve it?

You need to hire an elder law attorney NOW. This "manipulative, disreputable relative" must be dealt with!! This person has scammed your mother out of money, but sadly, she didn't realize it.

Get your mom tested a full evaluation is needed and you just may have your diagnosis. Be careful how you interact with this relative I would not threaten it may come back to bite you. Go the legal route.

You need an elder affairs attorney who will go to court with you so you can get guardian ship of your mom. That way you will have control of her finances. If she has a diagnosis of dementia then that is all the attorney will need to file the petition but you do need a diagnosis. I am in the middle of that now.

As a mother with a disabled child I would feel so grateful that my child was being cared for that I would want to help and might be vulnerable to overlooking red flags.

BUT as an elder needing care myself I would Also appreciate guidance so as not to inadvertently cause more problems for myself and my child.

I will make some assumptions.
The brother has SSI.
The relative is taking care of him in exchange for the SSI. This is usually less than $1000 a month more like $750. Not a lot but there are many people making a living by caring for the disabled for their gov check.
Usually they have several in a home and the living conditions can be poor if not managed well.
This may or may not be what the relative is doing.
An assumption as I said.
Do any of you hear from brother and know that he is okay? When you said mom sends money I assumed he and the relative don’t live nearby.

If I were you I would try to educate mom that brother is vulnerable and so is she and her job is harder than “just” sending money. She needs to be sure she isn’t setting her son up for abuse.

When your mom passes, is brother in the will? If so an inheritance can cause him problems with his SSI. Please read the will and discuss this with the attorney and with mom. If he lost his SSI would the relative keep him?
Is the relative expecting a payday (through brother’s inheritance) when your mom dies? Possibly.

The attorney should be a certified elder attorney who works with Medicaid for the elderly and disabled.

The government has an interest in what she does with her money because she may need the gov to care for her in the future.
Her future care and her sons care depends on her doing the right thing.
I know, that sounds like manipulation but it is true.

Plus if the relative isn’t able to care for brother on the amount of money that he gets now, then perhaps he needs to be looking for another home where his funds are better managed.
Who has POA for brother?

Your ability to help your mom might be more successful when you let her see that you are also concerned for your brother’s welfare.
Rather than pushing her into the clutches of the relative, help her understand the ramifications of her actions.

Sorry if I have made too many assumptions.

I would have a talk with the disreputable relative. You may want to threaten them a bit just to get your point across. Good luck

Have you checked into even making sure this relative is properly taking care of your brother? I wander what the relative did that makes you feel the way you do. Sometimes in these forums we don't get the whole picture so it's to form or give an opinion. You mention POA and the Will, but what about Health proxy? This also is very important to obtain, God forbid something happens to her health. Who would make her healthcare decisions? Have you tried talking to your mom about this? Unfortunately POA are very strict and you can't just take over mom's business while she is competent. She named you and your sister as her POA, when she can no longer make logical decisions or partake in her own financial stuff. Sometimes elderly fall to prey out of loneliness. I would honor her wishes completely and she can do anything she wants, but sincerely if she can't Then it's time to really look into having a health care proxy on file....

These are the red flags of potential elder fraud and financial exploitation! RUN, do not walk, to protect your mother and yourselves. As part of a group of national elder justice advocates who spent World Elder Abuse Awareness Week meeting with elected officials, banking and finance executives, forensic investigators and others in Washington, DC, the tsunami of exploitation is upon us and getting worse. Unfortunately, our country has not prepared itself for the onslaught of greed that is surfacing in every city, town and state across America. Having a notarized will, POA and trust documents do NOT protect anyone these days as our elder justice system is broken. Get educated by googling elder fraud, guardianship abuse, courts of equity vs courts of law, and related terms. Bottom line: judges and attorneys are practicing medicine in a courtroom withOUT a license and the perpetrators are quickly learning how to work this system. Do not let any one tell you elder abuse/exploitation is a civil crime; it is criminal and there are statutes to back it up in every state! Problem is most law enforcement agencies have had their hands tied. Knowledge is Power and all of us who care about our seniors and our own generations who are aging need to get educated - we are all protected by the Constitution but this information has been "hidden" from us by the network of perpetrators and cottage industry professionals ranking in trillions of dollars from our loved ones.

This is a serious problem. You have stated two things to us. One is that while her judgement is poor, your Mom is NOT incompetent. While she may have some early dementia, she is not incompetent. You have described her as having "poor judgement" and I think in my own opinion, you may be right. However, your true task as POA is to follow the directions of the person you are acting as fiduciary for as long as that person is capable of making choices and decisions, whether you agree with their judgement or not. My own read on POA seems to be a lot different than some answers below, but I recently took on Power of Attorney and Trustee of Trust for my brother, who is NOT demented, but who is diagnosed with a brain tumor and with early signs of Lewy's Bodies changes, and may BECOME demented in future. As I understand my duties, and I have read about four books by now and spoken with one lawyer who drew up our paperwork, I am to act on my brother's instructions and wants while is he is able to make decisions. That is to say if he instructs me to open a CD with the person being beneficiary being a person I dislike, if is on me to do as he instructs (and that has been the case). This is complicated, as your mother is acting in the interest of her own brother. I do not personally think that ANYONE takes over the care of a "disabled brother" in order to get money, because that is an awful lot to take on. And this may be the way your mother wishes her money to be spent. I don't see that you have any choice, other than to sit with her, and perhaps with a Licensed Social Worker or Elder Law Attorney, and discuss options, future needs she may have, etc. You will have to be very honest and forthcoming about your Mom's own needs for her own funds for her own future. What an awful dilemma you are all in, and I am so sorry for all you are going through. Due to the huge divergence of advice here I honestly think a call to the lawyer who drew up your paperwork is in order. No judge will want to hear you say "Well, on an online forum they said that....." In order for you to ignore the wishes of your mother she would have to be adjudged, by a doctor or two, according to your state laws, , as incompetent to make decisions in her own best welfare, and that has not been the case. So it is my opinion, if your mother wishes funds given to help her brother, and you refuse, you could face some charges as her fiduciary for failing to act on her wishes; you may actually LOSE GUARDIANSHIP, which could be assigned by a judge to a court appointed fiduciary (who would be paid out of your Mom's funds and with no say from family allowed) . On the other hand, those who said that medicaid qualifications can change if you have "gifted money" in the last 5 years are correct. I don't know if "helping support your disabled brother" is "gifting" but it sure is another reason to talk to a lawyer. And this appointment with an elder law attorney is money well spent in her protection, out of her funds. Make an appointment today would be my advice. This is complicated and messy sounding. I am hoping you will update us with what you learn as you go on, because this is crucial information. Wishing you the very best.

Just wondering, since her assets are dwindling, and a NH may be in her near future, how these payments to the relative will be viewed in a Medicaid application. Will they be thought of as gifts that will affect her eligibility? This could come back to bite her/you. I would do what you need to do to stop payments ASAP until you speak to a lawyer familiar with Medicaid.

...Notorized Will nd POA Paperwork is Enough to Make this Relative STOP NOW..You have legal Rights, Utilize this, I, too, Would be Pissed.

Can this relative cause legal trouble? She can try. But with the papers you and your sister have, she won't be able to do anything if you tell her no on giving her money for your brother's care. Call APS and ask that they investigate this woman as I highly doubt she's using any monies for your brother's care. File a restraining order against her as well so that she cannot contact your mother again. She wants to play hard ball? Let's go B!

I can relate in great part, because after my other dropped dead suddenly, and Dad was in the hospital with cancer and Parkinsons's and was headed for a skilled level nursing home placement, a crazy aunt of ours who had always caused their family nothing but trouble surfaced. How do they learn of these situations? Anyway, Dad's Parkinsons made him suspicious of his own children, but somehow, not of Auntie, so when an attorney recommended I go to court and become his guardian, Auntie showed up at the hearing! She also told my attorney that Dad was going to protest this action, and when I learned that, I told the attorney I only wished Dad were well enough to appear. She had secretly written a long, rambling letter to the judge about how evil I was and was only after Dad's money, and I had to testify on the witness stand while still in deep grief for my Mother, who had been my best friend at the time. Anyway, fortunately, the Judge was used to "nuts" and treated Auntie with respect but granted me guardianship of the estate at the first hearing. Since she objected, he continued the matter to have a hearing on the guardianship of the person (where he would live, etc.), as she wanted to take him to her house and cook "cook, nourishing meals for him!" I'd been told by his doctor that if I quit my job and cared for him as I had offered to do, I'd kill him, as he needed PT and skilled nursing care, and I wasn't an RN and didn't have the equipment. Anyway, after two expensive hearings and lots of intense negative emotions, I was granted the guardianship. You may have to file for guardianship, too - I'd consult an attorney.
God bless and be with you. My faith helped me through a nightmare time in my own life.

Whoa.

Where was your "partially disabled" brother living before? Was he dependent on your mother for his support? What are his needs?

The brother is not strictly speaking your and your sister's responsibility, but he may have been your mother's; and in any case you're not going to get the relative to shut up and go away unless you help her find a way to finance your brother's care. Presumably you wouldn't dispute that "taking him in" does cost her money.

And... if your opinion of this person is that low, and you agree that your brother does need continuing support... do you not have any reservations about his being left in her hands? What were the options?

Why is she not living with you or your sister..She's 87 and alone I assume. It is highly dangerous for someone that old and possibly competence slipping to be alone. Or are you more concerned what will be left after she passes so you get less of her estate. If she is with it (competent as you claim)-- it is *not* illegal to give away her money to anybody she pleases. It's HER money.. Further, you can't just put someone in a nursing home just like that. Besides they will take the entire estate so you get nothing anyway...if her husband is still alive he gets it.

"...re-emerged a while back and wormed her way back into my mother’s life by taking in my partially disabled brother..." In my opinion, it was your relative's *choice* to take in your brother. Your mother, you and your sister are under no obligation to support this relative in her choices.

I really do think this relative deserves some support for brother. Does he have Social Security Disability? Depending on how much he receives, she maybe entitled to some of that for room and board. If he is on SSD, he gets Medicare and Medicaid so may pay some copays.

What u need to do is explain that Mom has no money for his care. If he isn't on SSD maybe a good time to get him on it and find him "people" depending on his disabilities. My nephew gets help from the state for his housing and has a local Independent living program that helps him with everyday stuff.

Go to the bank with all your paperwork. Both of you go together. Explain you have to arrange the account so that one of your signature must appear on all withdrawals.

Then...take the bank card away from mom. I changed the PIN number. This prevents other ways of doing transfers.