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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Just got a bill for $10,000, never notified or discussed. ALF recently changed ownership. No new contract. Mom's status hasn't changed. I have a meeting with them tomorrow. I am livid. Mom's been there for 4 years. Advice?
I think this is more a notice of a price increase than anything else. Sans contract, that debt is uncollectible. But I suspect mom's rate is going to increase substantially.
I'm guessing that when the business was bought out, the new owners audited the special services everyone was getting and put a value on them. It is not unusual at all for ALFs to charge for accompanying to the dining room, help dressing, bathing, etc etc. perhaps the previous owners weren't doing that.
As I said, I think the bill is unenforceable. Their reasoning may be that you will object less to a substantial price increase when they symbolically back bill you.
If there was no agreement, there can be no bill. The facility owns the burden of proving that fee-for-service work had been submitted for approval by the person named as responsible for the resident.
You say that they need to provide IN WRITING to you proof of who, how, when the services were ordered and approved for billing. And if they don't, call the better business bureau and get an attorney.
Start the meeting calm and non-accusatory. Simply ask for the written agreement that authorizes these charges. You know there isn't one. They know there isn't one, but force them to admit it. If they do admit it, then you are home free for the back-dated charges.
If they say they will find it and get back to you, say, calmly again, "Thank you. As soon as you find it and send it to me, I'll schedule another meeting to work out payments. If there isn't anything else to discuss today, I'll be running along to visit my mother."
OF COURSE it is understandable you are upset. But I think for this first meeting you'll be better off staying calm and business-like. You are simply a person who knows what she is doing and what her rights are and are acting accordingly. No need to raise your voice, or cry, or show how upset you are. You think they have made a mistake and are confident they will correct it. You may need to show how upset you are in a future meeting, but to start with, play it cool.
Jeanne, etal. thank you for your sage advice. I will be calm, cool, collected and business - like as I've always been. It's just been that I've always done and I'm just blindsided at this latest. I'd like to rant, but it certainly wouldn't do any good.
U[date: The meeting went very well. I went in with a smile and a please help me. Very empathetic, concerned, apologetic, cordial, etc.
Although nothing was resolved today, I did agree to pay the non-disputed amount and there will be no late fees or penalties on the remainder. Apparently something happened in the transition and there will be a thorough review as to what happened and why. There was no documentation that I was ever notified of anything.
They also listened to me as to what I'd like, which is that to pull $ out of my hat would create undue hardship and if there was a mistake of under billing that we should renegotiate going forward, not back and I seemed to get head-nods, but no promises. There will be another meeting next week.
Oh, and went armed with all my paperwork and invoices for the past year. They made copies.
Well, I had to come back here and update. ALF admitted their mistake, there will be no back charges, but as I expected, there will be new charges going forward.
That's what I was hoping for, and I must say they were very good. I do like the facility and the care they give.
Hey! There are good places and good people out there! Just have your paperwork in order! :)
Mystic, so glad you got this resolved to your satisfaction. This is a good example for all that conducting business in a business-like manner is the best way.
When my uncle was in SNF as a private pay patient (he was in a financial position to pay the bill) i was amazed when I received the first bill. There were charges of $5.00 for soap and $5.00 for shampoo for each shower that he was supposedly given. I did not have soap and shampoo there. They charged for pull ups and a few other things. Nursing home doc changed his Meds and the next month i was charged for the old and new meds. Needless to say I bought him soap and shampoo . ironically they used the same one bottle for soap and shampoo and it cost him $5.00 a squirt. They charged him $50. For a bag of no name depends. When I complained because I had depends on ther
In his room they still tried to make me pay because they opened the pack and no one else could use it. The place treated him well but I was really annoyed that each month the bill had mistakes. Some months it was less then $10.00 but it still annoyed me to no end.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I think this is more a notice of a price increase than anything else. Sans contract, that debt is uncollectible. But I suspect mom's rate is going to increase substantially.
I'm guessing that when the business was bought out, the new owners audited the special services everyone was getting and put a value on them. It is not unusual at all for ALFs to charge for accompanying to the dining room, help dressing, bathing, etc etc. perhaps the previous owners weren't doing that.
As I said, I think the bill is unenforceable. Their reasoning may be that you will object less to a substantial price increase when they symbolically back bill you.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
You say that they need to provide IN WRITING to you proof of who, how, when the services were ordered and approved for billing. And if they don't, call the better business bureau and get an attorney.
If they say they will find it and get back to you, say, calmly again, "Thank you. As soon as you find it and send it to me, I'll schedule another meeting to work out payments. If there isn't anything else to discuss today, I'll be running along to visit my mother."
OF COURSE it is understandable you are upset. But I think for this first meeting you'll be better off staying calm and business-like. You are simply a person who knows what she is doing and what her rights are and are acting accordingly. No need to raise your voice, or cry, or show how upset you are. You think they have made a mistake and are confident they will correct it. You may need to show how upset you are in a future meeting, but to start with, play it cool.
Although nothing was resolved today, I did agree to pay the non-disputed amount and there will be no late fees or penalties on the remainder. Apparently something happened in the transition and there will be a thorough review as to what happened and why. There was no documentation that I was ever notified of anything.
They also listened to me as to what I'd like, which is that to pull $ out of my hat would create undue hardship and if there was a mistake of under billing that we should renegotiate going forward, not back and I seemed to get head-nods, but no promises. There will be another meeting next week.
Oh, and went armed with all my paperwork and invoices for the past year. They made copies.
So we shall see. Please send me good thoughts!
That's what I was hoping for, and I must say they were very good. I do like the facility and the care they give.
Hey! There are good places and good people out there! Just have your paperwork in order! :)
Comments please?
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