Bank of America refuses to accept a stale DPOA. What can I do?

I wonder if the State Attorney General can help? Yet another nightmarish series of hoops for unpaid, downtrodden caregivers to have to endure?!?

Forwarding of mail CAN work for SOME items, but only for a limited time (typically one year). After that, or perhaps even before, items can be returned to the sender, usually with a yellow banner stuck to it noting the new address. IF and ONLY IF that sender updates based on this will the change happen. No guarantees they will do this.

Beware that SOME items CANNOT be forwarded. I, through my own local post office, temporarily (1-1.5 months, indicated on the form) forwarded mom's mail so that I could take over the bills, add all the info to the online bill payment system and have the billing addresses changed. That worked for all the usual suspects. However... some items WILL NOT be forwarded (note on some envelopes forwarding might be requested while on others it might specify NOT to).
The issues I have run into is that federal entities do not like your DPOA, new, old does not matter.
* The IRS has their own form (we have not gotten to them yet, but my question is going to be simple - HOW does an incompetent person sign your stupid form!).
* The VA has for 21-22a "APPOINTMENT OF INDIVIDUAL AS CLAIMANT'S REPRESENTATIVE" that you need to use (I send the DPOA in with the 'intent to file', wanting them to discuss with me - nope. Had to file this form, not the one they sent, 21-22, which assigns a rep from their org for her)
* Office of Personnel Mgmt (fed pension) - requires a specific dx, letter from doctor or affidavits before they allow us to intervene!
* SS - have not gotten that far yet... needed to get over #3 above

The pension took about TWO years, because previous doctor was USELESS despite pinging them AT LEAST once/month to provide the letter he promised. Changing docs helped, but we had to keep throwing it at the wall until it stuck!
I just confirmed today that the VA now has the 21-22a, so I think we're good there (they do not mail anything back for confirmation!)

But I digress - because we still did not have those items changed, I had to schlep on down to mom's condo to get the tax paperwork needed for this year. And behold! About a YEAR AND A HALF AFTER the TEMPORARY forward, those documents had that nice yellow banner stuck on it that stated - UNABLE TO FORWARD. I questioned this, since the forwarding was long gone, but got no satisfactory answer. Even better, a replacement refund check from the IRS did NOT have that sticky on it!

Imagine all this crap they give you, protecting the person's information, identity, whatever... but as I said to one place - if we decide to rent OR sell the place, YOU will be sending her PRIVATE information to STRANGERS!!!

Bottom line: although this may work temporarily, it is NOT a real fix.

I too had problems with Bank of America for about a year after Dad's death. Mom still alive with dementia. All I wanted also was a change of address. Somehow or someway it all got done magically after I went to the post office and had all mail forward to my home address. I don't understand how the post office had the power but it happened. Think that God's hand was in it because Bank of America was driving me crazy and I could not take it anymore.

I posted an update today, so you can look at that string. Wells Fargo refused my moms notarized DPOA that was less than 6 yrs old and had dr competency letter attached (mom incompetent). Short version. F'n nightmare. Got nowhere after multi reviews, branches, mgrs. They froze account so there was no access when auto deposits started coming out for on line payees we set up for moms care and memory care facility.

We were told to either go to court and gain consevatorship and guardianship or get lawyer to to challenge them. All options just more money out of our pockets which I refused. We were told account is now frozen until mom dies at which time me and brother are beneficiaries. I'm still fuming as the acct has substantial amt of money.

I have ended up setting a new acct and will use money from sale of property to pay moms care and back bills.

You try to be honest with all the right paperwork and banks refuse to work with families nor disclose to their depositors that they require their own POA and may not acknowledge ones legal notarized DPOA. It should be part of their marketing materials to remind customers of this critical requirement.

Why not humiliate Bank of America on Social Media; that ought to fix their wagon!

Wells Fargo has recently become a nightmare according to a poster in another forum. She had a current/recent POA, letter from the doctor indicating her mom was incompetent. They went into the bank to close the accounts and Wells Fargo demanded that the Bank Manager be allowed to take mom off into an office alone to talk to her privately - as if to "assess" her mental capacity. The bank called the police when the daughter with POA refused. Research revealed that this isn't new. WF legal department isn't cooperating. She can't access the accounts. When I'm hearing all this, I am SOOO glad mom's accounts are with the same credit union I belong to. They have the POA on file & give me absolutely NO grief. Yet another needless hurdle for those who already have far too much on their plate to deal with. Shame on these banks!

FYI - in Canada the RBC can be a pain in the butt over rules in that I deposited a cheque [spelling correct for Canada] at C.I.B.C. for a friend easily then 10 minutes later RBC gave me a hassle for same & I WASN'T TAKING ANY MONEY OUT - the C.I.B.C. were worst for estate execitrix as they constantly wanted documentation up the ying yang - T.D. I've had no issues with - B.N.S. & BMO have been extremely helpful also even dealing with same bank & different branches -

The B of A seems to want to make their own rules - thank goodness they are south of border & I will make sure they stay that way should they try to shoulder their way up here - it seems they are not well loved in the U.S.A. so that shows much!

Part of the problem with banks is the compliance issues they now face after the financial crisis in 2008 - even to open a new account requires tremendous know your customer regulations and there is extra scrutiny around anything concerning financial elder abuse

My mom had me joint on her accounts so I've been lucky but one credit union told me otherwise they would have to verify any transactions with her under a POA

to lkdrymom:

You stated: " Luckily the bulk of his money is in another account but his SS gets direct deposited there and he has a small annuity with them."

Our mother had two bank accounts, one more local to make it easier to access cash when needed. She had her SS direct deposited. When we were taking over the finances, an attempt to change deposit was made via SS - because mom's hearing is bad, she could not hear well enough to understand the woman was asking for ok to talk to me. I could hear the whole other end of the call from 3+ feet away and told mom they just want you to okay talking to me... that's when SS got me back on the phone and rudely told me we would have to go to the SS office and hung up.
Well, I actually found out that you can REQUEST direct deposit via the OTHER financial institution. They (credit union) were a little perplexed (they probably do not get many requests for this!), but I showed them the documentation and made them do it! Basically, when the direct deposit request goes through from them, it automatically stops the other deposit. Once the deposit was made at the CU, I took mom to the bank and closed the account (I was NOT joint on that account, but she was not as bad off at that time - not really paying attention, but they did not give me any grief.

As for the annuity, if it is small, perhaps leave it alone. Of course, from what others have written, it will likely be a nightmare again if/when your dad passes getting that from them! If there is any kind of existing trust account for other assets (house, any savings, etc), you CAN move it there with DPOA. Just use the force, initiate from the "light" side, to defeat the "dark" side!

Quick lookup online yielded many entries, and a quick scan shows they basically all say the same thing - they do NOT expire. Here is one example from http://www.haddletonlaw.com/articles/What-you-need-to-know-About-Durable-Powers-Of-Attorney.shtml

"How Long Does the Durable Power Last?

The durable power of attorney lasts until the death of the principal or until the principal revokes the power.

In spite of statutes in many states which specify that durable powers of attorney do not expire by reason of time, many financial institutions are hesitant to accept durable powers of attorney which are more than three or four years old. Because of this, we prefer that clients re-execute durable powers of attorney every three years."

That said, some places (your BoA and probably many of those big banks that cause us so much grief) want to use their own. In our case, we found that the FEDERAL government does not honor the DPOA. So, the IRS has their own form... The VA requires the person to sign to have a representative, the Federal Pension needs a specific letter (magic words!) or affidavits from others... Social Security has not been approached yet, but now that we have the magic doctor letter along with our DPOA (2006), we may be able to get past them!
Anyway, back to your issue. The problem we ran into was with Discover - they allowed, with a DPOA copy, change of billing address, contact point, etc, but refuse any online banking (we can check things by phone though). Older DPOAs and POAs probably do not cover/have the wording for online access. However despite having mother sign a letter granting online access, NOPE. Even better, I just had to call them because they are required (federal) to get us to update our "profile" online and of course this CANNOT be done!
No one else gave us any problems in changing billing address and contact information. BCBS had to be updated so that they would not override the Caremark Rx mailing, but still sent statements until we moved mom. I called them and they made the changes, no problem.
Although the quoted section I posted talks about doing a re-execute every few years, this sounds like just a money grab. A DPOA that is 20 years old, I can see that some might fight that, but if you could back it up with location, doctor letter, something... I would push back on them. If ALL you want to do is get the bills and pay them, they should *NOT* be fighting you. I can certainly understand the CC not wanting to grant online access, to a point, but not from their arguments. Now, if this is her bank account, and you are not list on it, you are likely going to have to hire an attorney to request Conservatorship via the courts. We were lucky that mom put us all on the account, and was still lucid enough when I took her to the bank to change over everything. Until we made all the billing changes AND made old paperwork at home disappear, she would try calling the bank to get checks. That, thankfully, is all behind us now.

Anyway, If it is credit card payments, loans, or something along those lines, you could push back and explain you just want to be sure her debts ARE PAID. If it is her account and you are not joint, you are going to have to contact an attorney, elder is best.

As a caregiver remember the rule, "keep things easy for you," & this means everything. It's crucial to have all legal documents in place, correctly, from the start of the journey you are on. Consult with an elder attorney, one that you trust, & do things right, hopefully the first time. If things change, have his # on speed dial to get any questions answered and/or visit him again for assistance. There may be an expense involved, but, in the long run less stress for you down the road. Think about the overall piece of mind, that all is right, that makes it all feel better. Blessings 🌸

I would contact your state attorney general, too, to let them know the difficulties B of A is causing you. Sometimes a letter from the AG makes things happen quickly, especially if an investigation of their practices is a possibility. Our AG in Minnesota is very consumer protection oriented and I like having her in my corner when necessary. Thankfully, I don't use B of A, nor does my friend for whom I am POA.

Unfortunately, with a twenty-year-old POA, the bank is nervous, thinking it may have been revoked in the intervening years. At this point, you will most likely have to hire an attorney and go to court to seek appointment as the conservator of your mom.

Are u on Mom's account? If so, pay her bills and POA with ur name. I never had to get permission from the bank. I did need to prove POA to cash in her CDs. I did have Prudential tell me that they wouldn't except a POA more than 60 days old to cash in some shares. It ended up that I needed to have a lawyer, on his letterhead, say that the POA was still good.

BofA was a pain for us for my MIL. We had another account in a small local bank that was more accommodating and transferred online out of BofA. Nothing illegal just bypassing BofA

A long time ago, when mom was not diagnosed with dementia (and my father had passed away), she put me on as part owner of her checking account. Now that Mom is in her middle stages of dementia, I cannot tell you just how wonderful it worked out that I was already on her account. My name was even on the checks. Something for others to think about. I did, tho, have a little bit of difficulty at the bank when I wanted to get them to acknowledge that I had power of attorney as they (Chase) wanted their own proof. Fortunately, the only addition they wanted was a litter from the doctor at the assisted living facility stating that Mom could not handle her own financial affairs because of her condition. And that didn't cost anything but time. I can see why, tho, that these institutions are so firm with their requests. Would not like to be a senior and having someone fool me into thinking that signing my name on a document would facility their taking care of me....when in actuality, they just want my money.

GET A NEW BANK! - there's lots of them - don't put up with that sort of high handedness - just get a new bank with account that shows it's for her so any interest doesn't go to you or on your taxes & bank can help you with this - then write a check to clear it out for deposit only to new account - vote with your dollars & your dollars just walked out of their door - no Bank of America here & I'll stay away from them in future

Write to her lawyer stating all efforts you made so that keeps everything above board - copy any siblings if you feel that is a good idea so they can never say you snuck around behind their backs - get one close to where you live/work so you can go in easily 

What I did with mom was her bank was different from mine so that all items from that bank automatically is for her use - I even got a separate credit card to keep track of purchases for her & that is paid off automatically every month - it is even a different colour so that makes it easy

You should probably get an elder law attorney retained to handle this issue.

Do you have joint bank a/c's? If not, just pay it out of yours....and then keep record of it. bureaucracy shit gets on my nerves

Sounds like we need to avoid Bank of America. The validity of a POA document depends on the requirements of your state law. Just because a bank demands their own policy be followed does NOT mean they can circumvent the state law. Once a POA is signed and vallid, it should not have to be "updated" or "renewed". Depending on the state law, the POA is effective until the principal revokes it. It is "durable" because it continues to be effective even if the principal becomes mentally incompetent. Once the principal is mentally incompetent, the only way to set aside a POA is for a court to make an order setting it aside. That would happen only after a hearing on the matter.If the bank still won't comply with the law, a trip to court may be in order. Then, change banks or move the funds to a credit union. Be sure to research the financial institution's policies before depositing money there. Refuse to do business with any that demand a different POA from the
one required by law.

I don't like to deal with Bank of America, and I didn't like dealing with its predecessor outfit, MBNA. I worked for them part-time after being dismissed from Cigna when Cigna was sold to another outfit. Former MBNA was a quaker church type of environment, you could not talk to your buddies except for comfort breaks. That's the way all corporations should run except there was something about MBNA that rubbed me the wrong way

People who have a hard time with BoA should be posting on their website and alerting as many people as possible so accounts can be moved to another bank.

A POA should last the lifetime of the person who requested you to be the POA unless they specifically had requested an end date to the POA. POA is no longer valid when the person who requested you as their POA dies. Being incapacitated does not dissolve a POA and I am not sure what a stale DPOA is. I too had to deal with BOA and when all was said and done am glad they are out of the picture. I was listed as an owner of the accounts along with my Mother who is still alive. I wanted to close the accounts for simplification and it was an all day affair to get it done. They finally made me drag my invalid Mother from the home to "verify" that she really wanted the accounts closed. As an owner I should have been able to close any account I wanted to, but they kept requesting new and different things. As I said all day affair. I have closed other accounts to simplify things and had no problems. Worse bank ever!

I'm wondering how having money in a joint account with a non-spouse might affect an elder's being able to qualify for Medicaid if needed. Our bank in Indiana has allowed me to be an authorized signer on an account, even though my husband is the account owner. I'm also POD.

It's posts like these that make me eternally grateful that my mother put my name on her bank accounts when she moved into my home. I do have DPOA documents for other institutions as needed, but I can just write checks from her account to pay her bills since the account is technically a joint account now.

Thank goodness my Mom banks with Wells Fargo and Frost. She put me on her accounts right after my Dad died. I've had to put the DPOA in place because she is no longer capable of taking care of her affairs. I did get a letter from her Neurologist that required 2 physician signatures stating the DPOA should be honored. Once I took that piece of paper along with the DPOA I haven't had any issues. Both banks were easy to work with.

My parents both became incapacitated and I had to take over their finances. BofA was a absolute nightmare, whereas Wells Fargo was extraordinarily helpful. The main thing you need are letters from two doctors attesting to your mother's incapacity. Many institutions require separate documents generated by their legal counsel. Our trust attorney said that BofA is the worst bank to deal with when someone is incapacitated or dies. I ended up closing that checking account entirely. They even made that difficult.

I echo that BOA is a pain in the A*%* to work with. I finally had to go to an attorney to close out my Mother in law account of under $20,000 when she died (I was the Executor of her estate). I filled out all the same papers that the attorney did but it took a letter from the attorney to get action. It is just another step we learn about as Caregivers that we never thought we would have to know. I am done with them and pulled my one account I had with them to another bank.

We handled this already with my mom the first time she was in the hospital. She put me on her accounts so I could always access the account to pay bills. Much easier. Sorry they're giving you a hard time.

If Bk of America wants a legal document updated they need to provide legal services at no charge or nominal charge to do it. They should also provide a cover letter explaining their reasoning.