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A very good friend of mine, whom we have known and basically call our grandma for almost 8 years now, has gone into a memory care facility, and her one and only son who is the POA has decided suddenly that I can no longer visit her, (he’s let me for the last 5 years) giving no explanation at all, other than having the caregiver at the facility tell me that I could no longer come to visit her (who puts that burden on someone else?) I’ve tried to reach him by phone, text, through his wife, with n0 reply. You would think that being in the care system, it would be nice to have your friends visit you, I just feel like he’s punishing us both. I’m so confused and don’t understand why? It is extremely upsetting! Is this legal?

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Yes it is legal.
It is possible that after your visits she would become upset. (unbeknownst to you)
If this is the case and it would take the staff a while to calm her down they may have said something.
It is also possible that she has said she does not want visitors.
It is possible that she has declined to the point where she does not recognize anyone.
You can..
Write her a letter.
You can send flowers.
As difficult as it is accept the fact that this woman is no longer part of your life.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Thank you! I really appreciate you taking time to answer my post. I will definitely try out your suggestions!
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Yes, it is legal. I would throw myself upon his mercy with a letter that you would love to continue to visit, that you are saddened, and that you would do ANYTHING to be able to visit. You can agree to visitation with a family member accompanying you. You certainly are free to question the son as to why this has been done; he may have reasons. He is free not to answer you. My GUESS (and it is purely a guess) is that the son is quite afraid now that his loved one has gone into memory care that she will begin to pass out money to any and everyone she sees. Believe it or not this happens, and I just saw it happen with a dying friend. As POA he should already have taken steps to insure that no such thing can happen. But guesswork gets us nowhere, so I would write a simple letter asking if you can please visit, even if accompanied. And I would send notes and cards and pictures and flowers and goodies on her diet to your good friend.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Thank you so much for taking time to answer my post! I really appreciate it. I will do my best to reach him. In the meantime, I will also work hard to stay in contact other ways.
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This is usually because the visitor causes agitation and/or behavioural difficulties. Whether you are purposely stirring things up or not doesn't really matter, but since the POA refuses to discuss it with you I have a feeling you have had discussions in the past about what lead to this decision.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Thank you so much for taking time to reply to my post.
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Yes, if a visit is detrimental to the well-being of a person, the POA can stop visits. Otherwise, a POA must act as the principal would if they were of sound mind.

Can you go knock on his door and speak to him?

I was visiting a friend in a care home and I brought ice cream, I decided that there was enough for everyone to have some, after getting permission from the caregivers, I went around and passed out ice cream and spoke with everyone. What broke my heart was a little old lady telling me how precious my actions were, because they get put in these places and then they are forgotten by everyone. We have to do better with those we love and the people around them. Tell her son this story. Just because she can't remember or can't function doesn't mean she can't feel love given to her. To be forgotten while we are still living must be a terrible reality for so many seniors in care.

When he allows you to visit, do not entertain any talk of how wrong this placement is, how she should be at how or what an a$$ her son is. Try to help her adjust to her new home and love her right where she is.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Thank you for taking time to reply to my post. It means a lot to me. I am definitely going to work hard to find out what happened. Her son and I have only ever had a handful of conversations in the last eight years, I really don’t know what I could’ve done to upset him, or even her. Even the ladies at the home care facility gave me the code to let myself in automatically. They seemed to like me and she seemed genuinely sorry to have to tell me that I couldn’t come anymore.
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Hello, I do sympathize with your situation. it's a total shock! without no explanation. The decent thing would be to provide an explanation, even if POA. There's no problem him executing the POA rights, but the humanistic thing to do is provide an explanation, especially as you've been doing it for 5 years already. That's just the thing, in this day and age, most people don't tend to take the humanistic approach.

I agree with some of the things grandma1954 said, try write to her, flowers with your contact info. Otherwise if the POA includes responsibility for a person's health, you might need to seek legal advice. It sounds like you had a strong connection, so you might want to pursue it. However if you are not related it might not be worth it.

I'm guessing the son has asked the facility to stop anything from you, flowers, letters, phone calls?

It's a big shock and pain, to one minute share a strong human connection with someone and the next minute nothing, plus on top it, because you are not related there's nothing you can do about it, unless the grandma herself speaks up. If the grandma is in a memory facility, Does she even know you visited?

Make peace with yourself, hold the good memories of the 5 years, over time remember you did someone some good.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post! I have learned a lot from all of the comments. I do hope that I can still write to her. I’m still going to work hard to find out from him what I could’ve possibly done.
And, as you say, if I need to make peace with myself and others, and keep all of our good memories, I will do that the best I can.
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My mother did rehab at a nursing home. I visited with some of the residents there and even shared some of the treats that I brought for my mom with them. I watched television with them in the lounge area.

Several of the permanent residents at the home had Alzheimer’s disease. Some were often confused and approached me when I went to visit my mom.

One woman even asked me to take her to the parking lot so she could find her car to drive herself home. As sad as it was, I avoided having any conversations with this woman because she didn’t understand why she was in a nursing home. I allowed the qualified staff to deal her wanting to go home.

How often were you visiting her? You aren’t there all the time so you don’t know what goes on when you’re not there.

As grandma and cwille said, it is possible that something upset her after your visit and it was decided to not allow her to have visitors.

Without knowing the circumstances or the reasons behind all of this, it’s impossible to know what the POA is thinking.

I know that it’s hard for you because you would like to see her. It’s sad that her POA will not inform you of what is going on. Maybe he doesn’t know how to cope with it and is placing everything on a shelf so to speak so he doesn’t have to deal with it.
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Isthisrealyreal Jan 2023
Need, there is an old guy with Alzheimer where my friend is, he is easily appeased when asking me where his Jeep is and that he needs to go. I tell him that his wife has it and he needs to stay here or she will worry when she comes to get him. He will say something like, "that's a good idea" and he goes off to something else.

Funny story, 1st time I met him, he had followed me through the house and I introduced myself and asked him what his name was, he got a very serious look on his face, leaned over and said, "I am keeping that secret" then turned and wandered off.
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There is so much to learn about dementia, and you’re just at the beginning.

So often something upsets them and we don’t know what it is. My mother in her home with devoted caregivers would get agitated and worried if someone came in the house. We needed to have certain repairs done at times, like fixing the washing machine, but she didn’t know who they were. She was afraid of strangers, and who knows what her mind told her they were. She couldn’t tell us.

Remember that she’s not the same as she was. A friend of mine in memory care loves cards, though we don’t think she knows who they’re from. She looks at them and talks to them. Try that route and maybe enclose a picture of yourself. Good luck!
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Could you tell us what happened when you went to visit your friend and the caregiver informed you that the son with POA had given instructions that you were barred?

There are legal processes whereby someone with POA can make a best interests decision to exclude visitors for various good reasons, and you wouldn't necessarily have the right to know what those reasons are in any kind of detail - in fact, if it's to do with a safeguarding issue the information could well be confidential and you couldn't be told even if you weren't the problem.

But I wouldn't expect this to be left to a caregiver to communicate to you, and the exclusion process isn't simply a matter of the POA saying don't let Mrs Buggins in because I don't like her being here. The facility has a duty of care towards your friend, and a duty to promote her interests which normally would include her right to maintain her relationships, so they wouldn't just take an instruction from a POA which appears to go against those interests and say "oh okay then" without understanding the basis for the instruction.

Have you spoken to anyone more senior at the facility about it?

Why have you assumed that the son's action is intended to be punitive in some way? - what's happened during your last few visits to make you think that?
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
I certainly appreciate all of the responses and time everyone has made to comment. I’m struggling with how this site works for replying, it’s taken me an hour to get to this area where I can post.

When I first met my friend, my Grandma had recently passed away and she was such a comfort for me. I picked her up for church, took her to doctors appointments, helped clean her house and my husband helped with clearing her walk when it snowed even though she was across town. I invited her to all the events we went to. We have loads of pictures of her with us as if we were family. I knew she had a son because she talked about him and there were pictures of him at her house. But, I didn’t actually meet him until her memory got bad enough that she lost her car. I was happy that he was helping her. Then, she fell and broke her hip and went to rehab. We visited her there and he was okay with that and asked if I would foster her dogs until he knew what would happen. We fostered her dogs for four months. When he moved her to an assisted living facility, we visited her there and he allowed me to pick her up for church. Then, she got lost several times and couldn’t find her way back to that facility and he moved her to a nice memory care facility where we visited her and were still allowed to pick her up for church and bring her to some events and go on walks. Then, Covid happened. We did window visits, sent cards and her favorite candy. I got her a puppy calendar every year and wrote memories and sent pictures of us to her. Other friends did too. She remembered us until we started going back to visit her in person and she didn’t always remember who I was. I accepted that and helped her by going over the picture book I had made for her and she ALWAYS remembered our dog! ☺️ One day when I was visiting her, one of the girls said she was going to miss her and I asked her why. She said that she was moving out. Her son was coming that day to take her somewhere else. I called his number the minute I got in the car to see what was happening. He didn’t answer, I left a message and sent a text. Then, I called his wife and she answered and said that it was getting too expensive there. I asked if I could please visit her at the new place. She said yes, gave me the address and phone number. Same as always, we went to visit her, but this memory care place is in a residential home. They have 6-8 people living there and my friend went from a room to herself and the ability to walk circles in the facility and courtyard to sharing a room and only walking a hallway to the living room where everyone else is and all chairs are covered with pads. The multiple times I visited her there, she was in a chair, dozing. She can’t hear well and so I used to use my AirPods to help her hear me but the tv is always on and others were watching it and the only other place to go was the kitchen but that’s literally off the living room. We couldn’t really talk but I would hold her hand, show her pictures and when I left I would tell her I loved her and would see her again soon. The last time I went, I took another one of our friends with me to visit and the caregiver answered the door and said what I related in my first post. Every time I was there before, I spoke to the caregivers and the other residents. I even asked if I could bring cookies to share and the caregiver said definitely! I was supposed to take a friend and her puppy this week to visit because they said I could. I always signed the book to make sure they knew when I visited and for how long.😔
Sorry about using ALL the characters allowed, but thanks for letting me tell you all this, it’s healing just to be able to write this. Looking back has given me fond memories that I am so grateful to have.
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I pulled my mother out of SNF for multiple reasons not the least of which was that they told me they couldn't keep track of who came and went visitor-wise. A complete stranger (to me) visited my mother, and she told him all about her wedding to a new (imaginary) husband, and he trotted out of there, blabbed that information to the wrong people, and it ended up published in the local Rotary Club newsletter. He didn't know her well enough to know she had dementia, nor that there was no way in hell she'd have remarried at 89 years of age a mere four months after the death of my father, her husband and soulmate of 66 years. He took her word as gospel.

Needless to say, when that newsletter went citywide, I hit the roof.

I wouldn't be surprised if your friend's son doesn't perhaps feel the same as I did. He doesn't really know you, his mother has dementia and is declining, and he's trying to protect her.

Do the gracious thing and step away. I wouldn't even attempt to contact her by mail, because it looks like an end run around her son's wishes.
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Very sorry to hear you’re experiencing this. It’s heartbreaking that both of you have been separated because of this terrible disease. I think AlvaDeer’s suggestion to write the son is a good one. Perhaps a good old-fashioned handwritten letter this time would be helpful for a personal touch. If you’re still unable to visit, then hopefully you’ll at least receive an explanation and have some peace of mind and closure.
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hi well first of i can tell you it is NOT legal to prevent someone from visiting. i am speaking specifically in CA though - I'm unsure where you are based. my loved one's POA and the facility stopped me visiting - i did EVERYTHING in my power to see him. To cut a very long story short - I contacted Licensing who issued a citation against the home for trying to prevent me visiting. If the person hasn't been declared incapacitated this should be even easier. Regardless, I had also filed a petition with the court -the POA has now been removed - as Trustee also. Yes a court case is time-consuming and very costly however I will fight to the end to ensure I see my loved one and can continue to advocate for him. I would contact Licensing as your first point of call. It may be possible your visits cause some agitation in your friend - it was the same for me and my loved one - the home and previous POA used that against me. However, it was because he didn't want me to leave. He eventually settled into his new home and routine and is fine now. If you have been visiting your friend regularly for the past 8 years - especially if you can prove this (horrible to have to say I know) with photos/texts etc - then please persevere. Of course, try and speak with the son first however if there is no reasonable explanation I would try Licensing. If you feel the son is concerned his mother may give out money you could state you are happy to visit with the Carer present at all times and maybe try and reassure him that is not your motive for visiting. I feel VERY strongly about people being denied visitation. I understand there may be genuine concerns at times however I would urge you to persist. I wish you lots of luck.
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KNance72 Jan 2023
Who is Licensing ? I am Glad you Presevered
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I had a similar and heartbreaking situation of a long term befriended poor elder who I loved, and supported with fresh food and hands on help when I could as she lived 75 miles away. One day she fell, and another now deceased friend's daughter stepped in and had her moved to assisted living. Hilda, my friend, never saw any of her possessions again. I was able to speak to her once and she indicated the daughter had ill intent for her and her possessions, but was being treated ok at the facility. That was the last time I was allowed to talk to her, ever. The staff indicated if I showed up personally I would not be allowed to see my friend. Hilda passed a year ago, no one notified me... I called the daughter who indicated she was too busy to call me. Sometimes people are not nice, and frankly cruel.
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your friend as well. It’s absolutely heartbreaking.
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I don’t think it is legal. Can you contact an attorney and ask? You probably can get an answer for minimal if any fee.
there’s a backstory here that could be a misunderstanding. I would hope that this person has the decency to be open & honest
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Sreknoyt Jan 2023
Even if it isn’t legal, my family and I feel it would be a battle that would end up hurting more people that don’t deserve it. The caretakers don’t deserve the stress of having the son feel like he should move her again because of me “pestering” them in any way. It’s a lose, lose situation and my friend and I lost the most, but we will never lose our friendship and the memories I carry for us.

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement and helpful ideas. You have given me the resolve to be mindful of not only my wants but that of others in the situation. I have not given up my love for my friend but there is no way to not “stir the pot”. I don’t need that in my life and neither does my friend, this disease is the real reason for everything and there’s no fighting it.
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Do you have any pictures of you with your honorary grandma, especially during pleasant times or events? Send the photos to her, her son, and maybe to the facility. That may move the needle toward letting you back into her life
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Take a beat and realize that even though you want to visit your friend, there must have been some issue that occurred, whether you realize it or not. The family and/or facility has indicated you should not visit. Dementia is such a bizarre thing and messes with the mind in every way. Perhaps after you leave your friend gets upset (either at your visiting or at your leaving), you just don’t know with dementia as it’s rather unpredictable.

In the past, you had nice visits. Dementia worsens over time, you know that don’t you? maybe in the stage your friend is in now, visits are upsetting. As for no explanation from the son, that’s a shame, however he owes you nothing.

Be gracious and if your asked to stay away, then stay away. It hurts. Loss always hurts.
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LJBrodnax Jan 2023
To say the son “owes her nothing” is putting it a bit cruelly…he should at least reply. He doesn’t have to go into details, but this woman was his mother’s friend and cared for her and loved her. Even if he won’t change his mind, he should at least give her the courtesy of a reply.
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Yes it's legal as he is the POA. Please respect his decision.
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He basically sent her to a cheaper Place and is embarrassed . I saved a Great aunt from such a Place and told her to Make them bring her back to assisted Living and hire help - it was her Money and screw everyones inheritance . She Listened to me . At her funeral I was told I cost them $110,000 But hey it was her Money .
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lealonnie1 Jan 2023
You just outlined in detail WHY a POA would disallow certain visitors from coming to a Memory Care Assisted Living facility to see a loved one. You have NO IDEA the reasons why the woman was moved, or that the less expensive place is an embarrassment. Ridiculous.
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My attorney told me that as a POA for a dear friend, I have total control over who visits her. This came up when her decreased husband's relative came over one day and screamed and threatened me out of the blue. They had never visited her since her husband died. This situation is so different than the one you are describing but the law is the law. By the way, we live in California. Your state may be different.
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I suggest you send a letter to her son. Do let this be your last attemot. I say that with kinndness. Let him know you miss and love his Mom and respect him and his wife. Let him know it is heartbreaking for you and your husband not to see his Mom and would like to resume visits with her. Let him know you are completely amiable to monitored visits. Please do not have a tone in the letter. Do not question him, his decision, his POA, the facility he's placed his mother in. Use the letter to as an olive branch, an act of kindness, to show your care and respect.
Often times, those in the position of POA or guardian have it hard, get challenged, are accused if things - it's not an easy job by any means. I'm sure he knows and wants the best for his Mom.
As my 85 year old father has Alzheimers, he's often confused, in his own world, tells stories that didn't occur, is paranoid, etc. These things can change based on the day, how he's feeling, who visits him, etc. It's no one's fault, just the terrible disease. I am his legal guardian and do my very best to protect him. There are people and certain family members that visit and he either gets upset during or after visits with him. I've made changes such as monitored or no visits from these people because they no longer matched may Dad's frame of mind or peace and what was in his best intetest. Your friend's Alzheimers state may have changed and her son's doing his best to protect his Mom.
You have to let this attempt with him and/or his wife be your last. If not, it may not boad well with him and for you. You will just have to accept his answer. That also means no answer from him is an answer of no more visits from you. Keep her in your heart, always. I am sorry and do wish you peace and healing.
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my2cents Jan 2023
You bring up some good points. If the woman was getting more confused, it's very possible she told her son something about this friend that was concerning to him. Quite often accusing others of stealing comes up and in the beginning, it can sound quite convincing. As the stories go on, you can usually look back and decide that a story you thought to be true 6 months ago was, in fact, not true at all - and you can finally put a finger on the approximate time the dementia was starting.
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It is legal. The POA has full authority to act on behalf of her, and if she is diagnosed with dementia, the POA is in charge.
As far as pushing him for answers, that would only reinforce his capability to determine you can't visit.
Let it go, and remember the good times.
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I wonder what your friends decision was before memory care, but POA has legal decisions. I'm sorry that you lost your friend. You tried your best.
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I wonder if the lady is unhappy being where she is and son is just hoping she forgets about where she was before (and the people who were her friends). It's very sad to think that someone may still have some memory of a dear friend, but is no longer able to communicate with what was familiar. However, if someone is kind of sitting guard with her at memory care, I doubt you'll ever get to see her.

Legally, I suppose you would have to contact an atty in your state to find out more about visitation or at least getting an answer about why you can't visit.
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My answer has a different twist and not about dementia aspect. I too have POA for my mom. She is elderly but still is able to live at home. We look in on her and help her with thing she can't do. My sibling and spouse who live out of state wanted to come and stay with her for a week during the big Omicron surge that occurred over the holidays a year ago. They refuse to get vaccinated for covid and in fact had never curtailed their activities one iota during this crisis and mix with both their families also unvaccinated. My mom has severe COPD and is too frail and would never say 'no' even though I know she was worried. I asked my sibling not to come during this particular surge. Needless to say that didn't go over well and in fact they came. Fortunately my mom who is vaccinated and boosted stayed well.
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Sorry to say that we still use Covid as for restrictions or an excuse our USA was not prepared to deal with. We social beings still so rely on each other. Automation does no replace all people functions.
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WTLPC22 Jan 2023
Definitely covid19 is still with us. It is not a excuse . Person very close to me said they had the vaccination but did not. They died within a week after a visit
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Yes it is legal(at least in Michigan. My problem is the opposite, my dad is in MC and in the beginning his girlfriend(POA) would not allow me to be in his room alone with him?! The reason why I’ll never know. Now when I go see him no problem. You might ask why she is POA over my father when he has 3 living children(oldest passed from COVID in Dec 2020)we will never figure that one out ether! Remember all your good times with this dear friend, like so many others on here have said it’s a dreaded disease that sadly might have already robbed her of who she is/was.
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BenB1974 Jan 2023
I have had exactly the same problem. My step-father illegally (can't be proven) POA over my mother (replacing me). My mother clearly lost decision making capacity & soon deteriorated. He then banned myself, her sister & close friends from seeing her. Eventually, after 6 months, was convinced to allow us to see her only 1 time a week. It is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$ & control.
18 months & $$$$$legal fees later, no change.
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The first red flag I see in this posting is this you calling and referring to
"your friend" as grandma. This happened in my family with a former neighbor and friend of my 96 year old mother, who was coming in our house when none of us were home; she knew where the extra key was hidden. She thought she had the right to come into our home whenver she wanted. To this day I do not know what personal information she stole. It caused quite a ruckus between my mother and myself and the whole family. I banned that woman and her son from my house. When my father was alive he didn't want her coming into their home, but after he died, said woman tried to take over. She even posted pictures of my mother and her, her son on FB referring to my mother as her grandma. Fortunately she moved to another state because she got into trouble with other people for other things she did that I believe were illegal. Oh, she was very nice to my mother; told her everything she wanted to hear. IMO I can completely understand why you have been banned from seeing this woman you refer to as your Grandma - It is difficult enough to care for an elderly loved one without having someone assume they have a right to visit or be part of their lives. My advice would be to step away; you are not her family!!!!
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pleasegodhelp Jan 2023
Whew...so much projection here based on a single word. You don't have any knowledge of the relationship or the wishes of the person in care. She's clearly hurting about being shut out and this was not a compassionate response.
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File a complaint with your local Senior Services or similar government service about the POA isolating your grandmother. They should investigate it as a possible abuse.

The POA is required to act to the benefit of the grantor (your friend). The POA must prove it's to the benefit of your friend that you stay away.

Good luck.
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Sreknoyt: Perhaps you can converse with the son and he may, for the sake of the very good friend you call grandma, change his mindset.
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I am POA for my husband and his caregiver as I choose to keep him home where he is most comfortable. His daughter wants to visit him, but she comes over and then he is upset and disoriented for a solid week...and he doesn't even remember she was here. I don't know if visits now upset your friend, but I do not understand why he will not communicate with you. Is there more to this story? I hope you get to see her if it does not upset her.
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I appreciate this community of support and brainstorming. I have reflected on each comment and you’ve helped me really look at both sides.

My family and I have decided that pursuing it would be an uphill battle that would end up hurting more people that don’t deserve it.

To answer My2cents, no, he didn’t move her because of me. His wife said I could visit her at the new place and gave me the address as well as telling me it was too expensive at the place she was at before. I am pretty sure she wouldn’t have done that if she thought they were moving her because of me.

Honestly, I may never know why he chose this route, it’s a lose, lose situation, but I have come to terms with it. And, I will not hold anything against him for his choices.

Again, I want to thank so many of you for your kind words of encouragement and helpful ideas. You have given me the resolve to be mindful of not only my wants but that of others in the situation. I have not given up my love for my dear friend but there is no way to make this situation a happy one. I don’t need that in my life and neither does my friend or our families, this disease is the real reason for everything and there’s no fighting it.

I’m sorry, I will no longer be responding to this page as it just hurts too much.💗❤️💗
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