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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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Excellent question! I believe that you must cash in a whole life policy, but there sre, I believe, Medicaid compliant burial policies. Does anyone know about yhat?
Also, I believe you could legitimately used the proceeds to prepay funeral expenses. Whenever anyone here talks about things to spend down to Medicaid limits, prepaid funerals are always on the list.
I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable comes along to answer this!
Who is it for and who are the beneficiaries? I changed myself to be owner of my father's policy- and just removed my mother from being a beneficiary because it would disqualify her medicaid title 19 when he passes.
I believe we will probably do this. It's frustrating that she paid into this policy for years and now we have to cash it in and use the cash to prepay funeral expenses.
I've always found that most reputable financial advisors and website advise AGAIN whole life, as opposed to term life insurance, for just this reason. There are far better instruments/ ways to save money.
Medicaid rules on what are allowed exempt assets for life insurance & fir funeral & burial will be state dependent as each state manages Medicaid uniquely.
For insurance policies finding out whether the policy is whole, term or universal is kinda the first step in this. If it has a value that can be cashed out (whole life always does, universals might & term usually don't), then it's part of the spend down before medicaid will pay. This is what Babalou is referring to. But if the policy is not owned by the elder, then it never ever needs to disclosed on medicaid application as Mica did.
FH can do a Medicaid compliant funeral & burial policy. These are NCV - no cash value - & under a set amount that Medicaid allows (seems to be 10k as the max). Personally I think that doing a prepaid funeral & burial should be the first thing if you have to get a spend down done.
When I did my moms medicaid, one of the required documents to be submitted was her life insurance policy. It was an old school one, 30+ legal pages, double sided done decades before. Policy fully paid up & to the point where annual dividend issued. The caseworker called me on it as to what kind it was and it's value as none of this was obvious. Also the caseworker does not have the time or training to evaluate policy. (More current policies are 1 page with type, cash value etc, printed and sent out each year with premium bill.) I got a broker who held insurance license in moms state to do a letter stating term NCV which was faxed to caseworker ASAP to get past that hurdle for Medicaid application approval.The dividend (which is reported to IRS) btw got reported as income on moms annual Medicaid renewal each year and amortized for the year so that the month of payment would not take mom over the monthly income allowed by medicaid. My point in all this is that insurance is very much scrutinized by Medicaid and there are tax consequences from any income that an insurance policy pays.
If your moms cash out is pretty large, what may be a good idea is to wait to have her apply for Medicaid to begin with. She does private pay and uses the cash to pay the N.h, then buys a prepaid funeral/burial and also buys eyeglasses, hearing aids, a specialty walker or wheelchair and get whatever dental done. All these are either not ever covered by NH medicaid or pitiful cheapest item covered. Dental for my mom was a good use of her $$$ as "dental care" once in a NH are those red- sponge swab sticks that are tits on a bull useless. If the elder can't brush & floss on their own, it won't get done.
Also it will take time to get the cash out done with the insurance company & there may be fees associated to do. You'll need solid legal (DPOA & MPOA) to send to insurer. If you are also the beneficiary, it will make this somewhat easier.
If the beneficiaries are other family members, once all this is done, you may want to let it be known that that inheritance is now gone. Good luck & try to keep a sense of humor in the maze that is Medicaid.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Also, I believe you could legitimately used the proceeds to prepay funeral expenses. Whenever anyone here talks about things to spend down to Medicaid limits, prepaid funerals are always on the list.
I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable comes along to answer this!
I changed myself to be owner of my father's policy- and just removed my mother from being a beneficiary because it would disqualify her medicaid title 19 when he passes.
For insurance policies finding out whether the policy is whole, term or universal is kinda the first step in this. If it has a value that can be cashed out (whole life always does, universals might & term usually don't), then it's part of the spend down before medicaid will pay. This is what Babalou is referring to. But if the policy is not owned by the elder, then it never ever needs to disclosed on medicaid application as Mica did.
FH can do a Medicaid compliant funeral & burial policy. These are NCV - no cash value - & under a set amount that Medicaid allows (seems to be 10k as the max). Personally I think that doing a prepaid funeral & burial should be the first thing if you have to get a spend down done.
When I did my moms medicaid, one of the required documents to be submitted was her life insurance policy. It was an old school one, 30+ legal pages, double sided done decades before. Policy fully paid up & to the point where annual dividend issued. The caseworker called me on it as to what kind it was and it's value as none of this was obvious. Also the caseworker does not have the time or training to evaluate policy. (More current policies are 1 page with type, cash value etc, printed and sent out each year with premium bill.) I got a broker who held insurance license in moms state to do a letter stating term NCV which was faxed to caseworker ASAP to get past that hurdle for Medicaid application approval.The dividend (which is reported to IRS) btw got reported as income on moms annual Medicaid renewal each year and amortized for the year so that the month of payment would not take mom over the monthly income allowed by medicaid. My point in all this is that insurance is very much scrutinized by Medicaid and there are tax consequences from any income that an insurance policy pays.
If your moms cash out is pretty large, what may be a good idea is to wait to have her apply for Medicaid to begin with. She does private pay and uses the cash to pay the N.h, then buys a prepaid funeral/burial and also buys eyeglasses, hearing aids, a specialty walker or wheelchair and get whatever dental done. All these are either not ever covered by NH medicaid or pitiful cheapest item covered. Dental for my mom was a good use of her $$$ as "dental care" once in a NH are those red- sponge swab sticks that are tits on a bull useless. If the elder can't brush & floss on their own, it won't get done.
Also it will take time to get the cash out done with the insurance company & there may be fees associated to do. You'll need solid legal (DPOA & MPOA) to send to insurer. If you are also the beneficiary, it will make this somewhat easier.
If the beneficiaries are other family members, once all this is done, you may want to let it be known that that inheritance is now gone. Good luck & try to keep a sense of humor in the maze that is Medicaid.