My brother had a POA for my parents, both Alzheimer patients. My father died two years ago and mom died in June. My brother took a large sum of money from their accounts without notifying anyone. I suspect there are more funds missing. Is this a crime? How do I handle? I have refused to sign the Probate papers until this is resolved.
On the other hand I perform all care and my sisters feel no compunction to raise a hand to help and one lives with us. So if they have the nerve to complain to me about how much money I have spent, the fight will be on. They are receiving an income, I'm not, they are paying into a pension plan, I'm not, I am caring for our mother, because they choose not to. I am not throwing my Mom's money away I am saving it, but now i wonder for what, if she should need to go into a nursing home down the road it will all have to be spent and there will be no inheritance anyway!
I too provide statement copies and an expense report to both siblings. One tried to accuse me of stealing from my mother, and tried to pull the other sibling into the web of lies. I was alerted to this by the second sibling and immediately told the first one that I had never taken a dime but had spent thousands of my own dollars to update Mom's home, if she wanted proof, hire an accountant and I will pull out all the documents. Funny thing is this sibling is the only person who EVER took money from Mom and NEVER repaid a cent!
I have nothing to hide and can live with a clear conscience!
It's very simple - if the money was taken when they were alive and used for their benefit, it is not a crime.
If the money was taken after their death and not used for the funeral - but for personal use - then that money was stolen from their estate and the person should be giving the chance to repay, or reported to police.
It is not a soap opera for us to find out the latest goings on nor a competition for who hit the right answer.
I don't think any poster is just sitting back enjoying the "bickering and in fighting like a bunch of jealous siblings" -- who has time for that when you are in the middle of your own caregiving dilemma?
It is nice when we can get the outcome of a situation, whenever that update might come...if just so others of us can benefit from that persons experience and what worked or didn't work.
Lets not judge or cast stones folks, just love and support one another please, lest we drive each other away.
Of course we all realize that LakeAnna initially came here for answers and some support. The problem is she is once removed from the problem she is asking about, and we are once removed from her. Having worked in banking, it's important to know first hand what the status of the accounts in question were, before trying to answer. But Anna didn't say and no one asked, everyone just started answering based on his or her own experience, which is kind of what we do here. And that's generally a good thing, but in this case it didn't help.
When folks talk of a POA, they are usually referring to financial matters. POAs on accounts at banks are different. It's possible that bro took folks into bank when they appeared competent and had the account put in joint tenancy. If the folks agreed to that and the rest of the family didn't challenge it at the time, those funds become co-owned and it's no longer about spending the money just for the folks. What if, unbeknownst to Anna, bro & SIL sought their own legal advice and had a personal service contract drawn up? THAT would allow them to be paid for HELPING the folks. And, further, if the account was set up as a POA/POD (pay on death), even though a general power of attorney expires at death, the money in this particular type of account goes to the POA, similar to a beneficiary, and is now owned by the former POA. Just too many unknown variables in this situation.
LakeAnna neither gave this information (probably either doesn't know or doesn't know any better) nor came back and clarified anything even as our members we're commenting with the best of intentions about it. I am coming to not appreciate posters who do this: don't come back, don't update, don't answer questions, leaving our numbers to snipe amongst themselves. HIT AND RUN!
A "hot button" issue on here is when it looks or even smells like one family member who is not actively providing care sits in judgement of the ones who are doing so, failing to recognize what is really going on or how hard or impossible personal caregiving has become, and criticizing decisions that are made, from afar. HardWorking's family appears to be doing things right from that point of view, but sometimes you hear of a sibling who considers the caregiver to be stealing or freeloading in that situation. And, sometimes you hear of a sibling who realy IS stealing and freeloading and maybe even failing to actually provide care. And emjo is right about what a POA should be doing. Every situation is a little different and words on a screen may tell only part of a story.
I think the person asking the question deserves the benefit of the doubt. If everyone provided ALL the details in every post, we wouldn't have time to read them. If you suspect the questioner is "in error," ask a polite question to find out more.
I think the person asking the question is usually in pain or distress about a difficult situation. Kindness is in order.
If the question hits one of your hot buttons, please tell your story without assuming that the other party is a no good selfish do nothing. We have learned that there are good parents, OK parents and monster parents. There are saintly siblings, helpful siblings, unhelpful siblings, and monster siblings. Keep an open mind.
We all have such hard lives. Please, can we be kind to one another even if they don't seem to deserve it? I love you guys!
quote from wiki.answers
A POA is an attorney-in fact" - a term used on some states
" A POA creates a position of trust where the principal grants power to an agent to sign on her behalf when she is unable or unavailable, or simply for purposes of convenience." and ".Any attorney-in-fact who uses their power to access the principal's funds for their own personal use should be sued and reported to the local district attorney for criminal prosecution. Courts abhor an attorney-in-fact, or any fiduciary, who uses their power to steal from the principal. Self-dealing by an attorney-in-fact is against the law in every state.
An attorney-in-fact who uses their power to convert any property to their own use is committing a criminal offense. That would include such things as transferring real estate or personal property such as motor vehicles or timeshare interests to their own name".
It appears it is a criminal offense.
I would think your best recourse would be to consult a lawyer, perhaps particularly a lawyer expert in elder affairs. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
If the funds were withdrawn before last parents death and can be proven to be used for personal funds vs caretaking of parent or their estate, then without provisions written; I'm certain this is not legal.
I agree with you, don't sign off on probate or other until all the financials have been legally reconciled. At the very least, those funds should be subtracted from his share of remaining estate.
That said, if he provided the primary care and was bore most of the responsibility for their care, transport, meds, keeping the property up, etc...then you should consider compensation to your brother.
Frankly, I'm keeping track of every expense, time, visit travel expenses, etc. and have informed my sib of this...further that in the end, I expect this to be subtracted from his share of estate since he has relinquished all care to me. He so far is in agreement. I have all the receipts for meals, hotels, etc.
So, I KNOW it is immoral and it should be illegal, good luck LakeAnna and God Bless. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
My sister and her husband blew through my Mom's savings without flinching.. they burned through her money on her care because they didn't want to be inconvenienced. I look at it this way: their selfishness will be discovered and they will reap what they sow.
I am my mother's POA which gives me the legal right to handle her money and pay her bills, but I do NOT have the legal right to take money out of her account and spend it on ME, that is called stealing! I can take money out of her account for her needs, no one else's.