My Dad (89) desperately needs to be put in a home but my Mom won't do it. Options?

I need to remind caregivers that your loved one with dementia need not go outside. You are the only one who can prevent this. It's very simple. You simply call a locksmith and have him install a dead bolt on every door in your home that leads to the outdoors. That's what I did a year and a half ago. The only way my hubby can sneak outdoors is if he has a key, and he does not have a key.

I think we need to keep in mind that every situation, every family is different. While those of you that advocate to keep the senior at home, it is not always physically, financially or emotionally possible. But for some, it is. This poster needs to evaluate their own situation. Is there family support? Is there place in the home for a 24/7 caregiver? Are there funds to support it? If so, you could give it a try. If not, look into the other alternatives we have suggested to get the ball rolling before someone gets hurt.

xo
-SS

It is the hardest decision that any one can make for another person. Both your mom and dad would benefit from putting dad in a home. I put my mother in a nursing home and to this day I still deal with the guilt that I did it. However it was a good decision for her health and well being. My mom passes in July she was only in the home for a year and a half but it felt like forever. Best of luck to you !!

Willows. ..any fire chief will tell you thats against the law and a fire hazard to need a ney to get out. Putting a chain up high on the doors is okay. Be safe please!

Key

Get DPOA NOW! They cannot make valid decisions!

I'm agreeing that your mom probably needs some kind of help caring for your dad. Have you looked into home health care? The only downfall is not having that kind of care at night. My elderly friend who died on January 3 had in home care but it was not available at night when he had the most trouble. I think this had something to do with why he frequented the ER because he was always calling the squad more and more over time. It seems like the last few weeks he was on his own, there were times he called the squad twice daily. There's got to be a pretty big hassle with the paramedics who could've easily been dealing with bigger issues than his. He was well able to take care of himself and to work through his issues but he just didn't want to. We were fortunate enough for him to be able to sleep in bed rather than a recliner. I don't agree with slipping in little white lies just to get the person to do what you want them to do and then to take something from them. There are some people who just won't fall for that trick, my surrogate dad was one of them as well as my friend who just died on January 3. They were way too smart to fall for such a trick as that because both of them were in the military during their younger years. I must admit but my elderly friend was much sharper to catch a lie, you just couldn't slip nothing past him, he was just too smart for that. This particular person was just that kind of person that required you to be constantly on your toes and doing the right thing. He may have been in his 90s, but he sure was sharp as a tack for that age.
I'm just sorry that these two elders ended up having to go to a nursing home. It was even said that my elderly friend could not go into a nursing home because he would die if he was placed there. It just seems like he hasn't been there that long and the person's statement turned out to be right. Being in a nursing home actually takes away a person's freedom because there are serious restrictions to observe. Your life just isn't your own anymore. If you've ever noticed that any time you walk into a nursing home to visit someone that you feel like turning tail and leaving because you feel the presence of a loss of freedom as well as death. It's an awfully depressing existence even for an outsider to pick up on. Imagine having to live in such a place, no fun. This is why there are programs to keep the elders at home longer, one of those programs is home healthcare and case management. They don't stay there all the time, just for the times they are needed to do their work and then they're gone. Afterwords the person is free to go and do their own thing. It may very well be that your mom may very well need some help taking care of your dad. I would also alert your local APS as mentioned here. The only thing you're going to have to be very aware of is that they may not help right away. I faced this with my surrogate dad when I knew there was no more I could do and I was reaching my limits end. I knew at some point I would need help from someone with more authority than me and also someone who has far more resources than me. That came with my surrogate dad when the APS came to my door and let me know what just transpired. In fact, I'm actually surprised dad even answered the door or was even home because he usually left early in the morning. There are some people who just don't want to answer the door for no one but there were times dad started answering the door just because I was around. However, some people just won't answer the door at all, especially when they live alone or they're taking care of children. You may face some challenges when approaching the local APS about this particular matter. Another place you may want to alert is the local health department because of the soiling that may not be cleaned up in a timely matter after it's done. This is definitely a health hazard. If you don't have success with the local APS, perhaps the health department can get them involved especially if you have pictures to back up your claim about the soiling. My elderly friend actually started soiling himself at some point, but I just don't know how long it went on before it became obvious when he soiled all over the bathroom. I guess he made a mess in his pants and somehow it got all over the bathroom floor around the toilet and even all over the toilet. I'm wondering if he actually didn't do it on purpose to keep others from using the bathroom. Some people are very sharp in their old age and it would definitely surprise you.

From what you described, it sounds like your mom also took her vows very seriously. She also may not have the money to put your dad into an NH. There may be two incomes coming in to help pay all expenses, and the loss of one income could spiral her into serious debt if she can't pay the bills on one income. It may very well be that they're already barely making it financially and they may actually be struggling financially to stay afloat, and even one unexpected medical expense would be enough to drain what little money they may have. This may actually be why your mom won't take your dad to the doctor or even the hospital. It may be that maybe they don't even have a coverage because perhaps I can't afford it along with financial struggles. They may be in just the right spot where they're actually stuck between poverty and riches. When you're stuck in such a spot, you can't get the needed help but you can't afford to pay expensive out-of-pocket expenses either. Things like this is what many people face every day. Sometimes it's food or medicine but not both. It may be that after all the bills are paid there's just no room for medical expenses or even insurance let alone nursing home costs. This is something to consider if your mom is totally refusing to your dad into a home on top of taking her marriage vows seriously. "In sickness and in health" apparently means something to her. However, you may actually have no other choice but to go over her head and get her help your dad so desperately needs. What you may want to get is a case manager who can help you through all of this. A case manager is just that, a case manager who handles cases. Definitely look into this because having a case manager can actually be very beneficial to those who need it.

Llamalover, not to split hairs but a person who cannot make valid decisions cannot, either, create a legal DPOA. If only this were simple.

this is also the case with hub's aunt and uncle - except, in their case, the expenses are credit card debt that I don't think should or would have to be paid, anyway, but that's that "old school" thinking as well; they made 'em; gotta pay 'em
also, reverseroles, agree; my dad also got out - don't even want to think about what happened - we had just talked about getting alarms but just hadn't gotten them - op might really want to consider that - we almost did run into issues with dad having gotten out - and winding up in the hospital - over that - and had things gone differently feel we most definitely would have had to have gotten them at that point - which would have been fine - but as part of that we discussed the locking situation - maybe I'm not sure what a deadbolt is - we did have two locks but neither required a key to get out but they definitely told us the same thing - you could not do that - we're still not sure whether they were both locked but having said that the regular lock - if it was locked - we wouldn't have thought he could unlock with his arthritic fingers it was so small so not exactly sure what happened; we were also right at the point of trying to get some more help because even with live-in 24 hr. care, with him having reached the point of being up and down all hours, that help just wasn't being able to get the rest they needed so we think that's what had happened; they just got so exhausted they fell asleep after having been up with him the night before, with dad having gone ahead and gotten up at his usual - or what had used to have been, he'd been sleeping later - time to do his "morning ablutions" but had normally been going back to bed - but this time - just about around a hour later when they woke up - he hadn't gone back to bed - doesn't take long, I realize - but also thankful at least the one doctor realized we had been trying to keep - no, allow - him to stay at home and have his freedom -
private1 - I'm not sure what you're saying did transpire with your surrogate dad and APS

debdaughter,

From my own experience with dad, he was also very rigid against going into a nursing home. I did not know he was actually developing dementia but very slowly and gradually. He was also renting from a slumlord who was taking advantage of the tenants. When dad was the only one left, the slumlord really started taking advantage of dad but there was nothing I could do. This went on for quite a while until I started talking to dad about his future. I do know that dad was very much against going into a nursing home, and I don't why am I am because he was wanting to stay independent. I also know that at some point things got so bad to the point of having to turn to someone. At the time I never knew of the existence of APS or I would've turned to them much sooner. It wasn't until later that I started hearing a little bit about them during my desperate efforts to try to find some help. I just knew that I couldn't handle dad on my own. I knew there had to be help and resources out there, but I just couldn't find them. It seems to be endless circle I was going around in. Finally, I wandered into our local human services and told them about the situation and what I was facing but that I couldn't find any help. I told them about the Council on aging or karma but there didn't seem to be any help there because the problems kept reoccurring. The lady at the window directed me up the elevator and to the office of the APS, which is where I was finally able to talk through what I thought were the right people. I wondered why it seemed like they were really doing anything as the problems around dad continued. I finally got them to open up when they finally told me they couldn't do anything as long as dad was able to make decisions despite developing dementia among other bad situations. It was quite a while afterward that APS came to my door one day and told me they just moved my dad early that morning. I was given enough information to be able to help him at his new location. Yes, APS finally stepped in and moved dad to a better place. They had the resources and equipment that I lacked, because there was no way I was going to possibly get dad physically out of the slum he was living in and into the new place all by myself. The slumlord had been wanting to shut down the building for quite some time but he couldn't with dad living there, which is why he kept not paying the utility bills to his big apartment building and allowing other things to go wrong to hopefully drive dad out of the building. However, this did not happen as a slumlord was hoping. Not only was dad very rigid against going into a nursing home, but he was so rigid that he would not even move even if the house would've fell down around him, that's how bad that house was getting. The building was getting wild animals in the walls and even in the apartments. All but one apartment was empty. Dad was the only one still living in a nine apartment building. I don't know how the APS got the rest of the information from two other people, but somehow they did, and I'm glad they did because they were finally able to get dad out of there though I don't know how they did it. I do know that dad was not very open to strangers or letting people in. I'm sure that before I came around he wouldn't even answer the door, (and I'm pretty much the same way). It's sad that my surrogate dad had no family left and I was the closest one family that he had. Not being a blood relative really tied my hands because there was really not much I could do. I just couldn't stand to see dad in such a bad living condition on top of his declining health and developing dementia. Dad was put into a new place, but he was quickly taken to a nursing home after he was re-hospitalized for a second time. Dad used to smoke a long time ago, but the price of cigarettes made him give it up, which worked out for the better. Anyway, when dad was put into a nursing home, I'm surprised that they put him into one so close to the old house where he used to live because he could've easily walked off and went home. What I didn't know is that very nursing home happened to be equipped with an Alzheimer's wing that I never knew existed for many years. This is how they could put dad so close to home without him walking off. This is what transpired with dad. I don't know how the APS got through the fact dad was so rigid, but I can tell you they got him into proper housing that was much safer than where he was. Furthermore, they got him the help he needed whereas I could not.

private, they may have gotten law enforcement involved; they can do that if the situation warrants; that's what happened with a friend of mine's husband's aunt; the only person who would go that far was her daughter who lived out of state; she called the APS, who went out to her house, which was in about the same condition as your dad's apt. because she was in no condition to take of her place anymore, and when they saw it and her, brought law in and forcibly removed her; that may have even been how they were able to see in the first place, because she would have been like your dad and probably not just let them in voluntarily; hope your dad is doing well now

debdaughter,

I don't know how dad is doing now because the lawyer guardian won't let me see him and I have no money to be able to hire my own lawyer. When the Guardian took over, she basically severed the relationship when I was told that I could no longer see dad at this time. The Guardian is avoiding me and won't return my phone calls and all I know is dad is declining according to her. I don't know what she's up to but in the end it seemed very suspicious to me. The lawyer guardian happens to be a daughter of our local prosecutor. Yes, prosecutors daughter! There's no way to fight in this particular case I was told even if they happen to be wrong. In other words, they can do whatever they want with dad, my surrogate dad, and there's not a thing I can do about it which is why many people in high positions take advantage because they don't expect people to be able to fight because most people (around here) have no money for lawyers. Again, people can take advantage and be totally in the wrong, and there's not a thing you can do unless you I have some serious money and hire a lawyer, and lawyers are very expensive as we all know. I may not know how dad is doing, but if the lawyer isn't going to return my calls and she's avoiding me, then apparently she's up to no good

Countrymouse: I'm saying the CG file for DPOA, not the ill person with dementia! Certainly not!

oh, Private, I'm so sorry and so sorry so long in seeing this, not sure what been doing, although has been somewhat of a busy week but a similar thing happened to my cousin; his granddaughter, his only relative in his state, was appointed guardian, even though his sister wanted to be and he wanted to go to her state to live, but granddaughter's mother-in-law was the Director of Nursing for both his state and another one, so you know she had pull, and when that happened she, too, cut off contact with the rest of the family and ended up moving him closer to her into another nursing home; well, he was in one but supposed to have been only for rehab; now I thought his sister had enough money to hire a lawyer but apparently she must not have wanted it bad enough to spend the money, not really sure what that was about - money talks? finally his brother went to see him - not sure, sister didn't? - and found him practically comatose, couldn't get guardian/granddaughter to do anything, finally got nh to admit he was bad enough to be sent to the local hospital, which deemed him bad enough to be sent to the big city one, where he, yes, ended up passing away. And, yes, sister, at least thinks it was all about his money - don't think she was made executor of his estate or at least don't think she was made - well, it's not "heir" if there's a will, but anyway don't think she was to get anything after he passed - so sister thinks gd got it all beforehand as guardian - or at least, seemingly, nothing's been settled since he passed away almost 2 yrs. ago, at least according to his son who's been trying to find out what's been going on and she, gd, said she had nothing to do with it after he passed, but, wait a minute, I just realized her husband sold his house after he died; why didn't I pick up on that then? wait, I know and maybe that explains why he hasn't talked to me since, hm...at the time all I was concerned about was our genealogical stuff - he is "just" a cousin, to me, after all, but, still....they had put it all in storage - the kind you have to pay for, so you know what I was told about that, just like with my dil's grandmother, hm....so, yes, people do take advantage - something expecting to happen with dil's sister who has somebody on the other side expecting and already has come into a bunch of money from a settlement - maybe, if you're lucky, you can find a pro bono or cheap lawyer but hard to do - not sure what to say - sad situation

to joyce125: whether you believe in spells or whatever, dementia cannot be "spelled away", its just possible that "the other woman" decided she didn't want your husband after all and not sure how your particular post had anything to do with the original posting. however I am glad you are now back happy with hubby.

We did all the proper things through a lawyer about 10 years ago. Will, durable power of attorney, living will, transfer of house, etc. so we were lucky. Mom was home alone and as she declined, as difficult as that was, everything legal was in order. The time to talk about such things with parents is years before a crisis, and they will either consider their future or get furious with your 'interfering'! When Mom was in the ER, I asked they keep her for a few days till another relative could come up to help, and they said it would cost $3000 a day to keep her for no good reason, and that would probably be on a gurney in the hallway!....Later, visiting nurses said the ER will do that, trying to scare people, but all they could do would be send bills, an empty gesture as Mom had very little at that point. They told me if Mom did go to the ER again, I would have to tell them it was unsafe for Mom to come home, there was no one to watch her, and they would have to place her in a nursing home. They would not discharge her. Luckily, never had to put that to the test, but that is what nurses, social workers, and people at a church told me. That's what it came down to, leave Mom in the ER. Makes me shiver to think of that. Someday it may come to that, sadly. I wish you luck, it's a terrible situation.

Lassie, not exactly sure where this has come from re op where mom won't put dad in nh, but know that when dad was placed on hospice after us being told he could stay in the hospital on inpatient kind then being told no, but being told he would probably only last a few more days, asked about them keeping him anyway they, too, said it would cost $3000 a day; for a long time I almost wish we'd just gone ahead and done it, then there wouldn't be any issue about that money he ended up leaving behind but now a situation's arisen that I think he would be glad we have it; anyway, when we went to the ER because I wasn't there and had to get there so for whatever reason they either thought he'd come by himself or been abandoned there, they called in social worker and the next day, after I'd gotten there, came in and asked if we were wanting him placed in a nursing home; now, we weren't at the time but later, after they'd been told there was no one to watch him at home, they said they would have to place him in one and wouldn't discharge him, until we got that worked out on a conditional temporary basis which in our case turned out to be permanent after all. But in op's case, that's definitely something she doesn't want to do, is the issue.

Please everyone with good sense, consider "reporting" posts that are very unhelpful and could be harmful.
Grace + Peace,
Bob