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I am the main caregiver for dad (mom is in a NH) and as he sees me continually (my family lives here with him) he confuses me for mom and vents incredible amounts of anger and bile toward me.

My elder sister, who he defies, thinks this is funny. Yeah. Real funny. It's hurtful and he is gleeful when he sees me cry. So I do my best to keep a stone face and not let him know he's hurt me.

THe only way I have of dealing with this is walking away from him when the foul language starts. Does anyone else have this problem?

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Why are you hurt? Ask yourself that. You KNOW he thinks he's talking to your mom. He's not in his right mind. "Dad!!! It's your favorite daughter, Kthln3!!! Stop pickin' on me!!" said with a laugh every time OUGHT to be your response. And to your sister who laughs (it seems this frosts you), roll your eyes, then cross them, and laugh out loud with the visible attitude that says, "OMG! There he goes again!!"

It's just completely silly to let your deranged dad wipe you out when you know he's not in his right mind.
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Are you having a bad day today, MaggieMarshall? If I wanted an answer such as the one you gave me I could have simply called my sister, who spends her time yelling at me for all that I don't do. I was simply looking for a calm reply from someone, not a rant. Next time you want to rant how about ranting at a family member instead of a stranger who is just confused, frightened, overwhelmed and in need of a reassurance from someone travelling the same path. Your hostility rings right through and you can have it right back. I have enough hostility in my life.
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kthln3, It sounds like it is time for Dad to move to a memory care unit. Your children should not have to witness his behavior. Move out of there if you can afford to and let the other sister deal with him. In the mean time, walk out as soon as it starts, do not reply to him, just go go go. GO
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As I re-read what I said, I still don't get it. I thought my reply would remind you that he's NOT in his right mind. And that you SHOULDN'T give his rants a second thought. Guess I missed the mark.
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K, does your Dad have dementia? This is such an evil disease. It robs our loved ones of their most basic feelings of affection towards the ones they love best . I can only say, be comforted by the fact that it's the disease and not your beloved dad who is talking here.
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Anger in dementia patients is very normal, and unfortunately, you (or your mother) is the target. I think anyone who has worked/lived with someone like your father will tell you this. Pstegman is right: this behavior is detrimental to your whole family, dementia or not. But the primary thing is that you must remove yourself from the situation immediately when it starts. Never reward bad behavior. And anger back just doesn't cut it. My MIL lives in isolation, albeit I am around to take care of her, and she wants for nothing. But I can take her negativity only in little bits. It is hurtful to her children so they only come around under controlled circumstances (like in a public place when I am there to run interference so she won't verbally attack them). Coping with dementia changes all the rules. Take a deep breath and know that you are doing the right thing by your dad.
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Kthin3, just my guess but did Dad behave this way before he became ill? I grew up with parents who argued, bickered and just were not nice to each other or me and my brother. Is some of the hurt you feel coming from your dad's past behavior?

If not then you do have to realize he is not himself.

Your sister is insensitive to your feeling as well. What is that about? I see many little things that indicate to me previous dysfunction in the family. These things don't disappear because someone gets sick. They often get worse.

I wish you peace in this situation.
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My first reaction is pity for your poor mother for all the abuse she suffered. Whatever you do do not let him go to the same N/H as your mother She does not deserve to be subjected to a relighting of her past abuse in her final years.
You have been given good advice with good intentions so think carefully about your next step and there has to be one
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I'm sorry you're going through such a dreadful situation. Being shouted at and villified must be horrible, and having your sister laugh when it happens makes a nightmarish experience worse.

Laughing it off and making faces at your sister is not a helpful response, in fact it's insulting to you and the very real pain you're experiencing. The commenter who told you that really should think about how she'd feel if someone responded to her plea for advice in such a superior fashion. Fortunately, most of the people here are compassionate.

If you and your family are living with your father, you should move out if you can. Let your sister deal with him and see how she likes it. Moving him to a nursing home would be a good idea, although probably not the one your mother is in, for obvious reasons.

Good luck.
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I'm sorry to hear you have to go through that. It is typical dementia behavior. If you can't get out of the situation, your best bet is to simply say "Dad, if you can't be nice, I don't have to listen to you" and then ignore him and leave the room. He will hate being ignored and if you do this repeatedly, it may sink in. My mother treated her dau-in-law this way (who was her caregiver); at first I tried to argue with mom whenever she'd go off on a rant about her DIL - after a while I just looked away and ignored her and what she was saying and her rant would peter out. After a few weeks of this, whenever she would start a rant, she'd stop after only a sentence or two when she realized I was not paying attention to her. I know it is hard on you, but please try not to take what he is saying personally. Try to view it like a toddler having a tantrum - since you can't spank him {grin}, ignore him. Take care!
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Some good advice above. Definitely leave the room when he starts... rants need oxygen, if at all possible just keep taking deep breaths as you calmly leave the room.

Or buy an airhorn and give him a good blast every time he gets mean! Works with dogs- ha ha ha! (Oh if only you could, eh? Tempting isn't it?)

Bullies only pick on folk they think they can get away with it with... does he rage at your sister too? If not, could that be because she does not take him seriously and laughs at him?

Hard to tell but sounds like you and your family live in his home?
And your sister?
But you are the one he rages at?
I do think you need to be firmer with him, tell him in VERY strong words not to speak to you like that.
(If he was like that with your poor mum all the time, then I hate to say it but you could have picked up your mum's attitude (classic child of abusive parents behaviour... daughters can end up cowed. Happened to my sister but I ended up excessively feisty as a backlash. When me and dad fight it is nuclear, but seems to take that with my dad to get him to do anything that he disagrees with. And he actually says sorry after... I am the only one if the 6 of us to have ever had an apology out of him! Ex RAF fighter pilot, very domineering man. Hate shouting at my dad, upsetting and stresses me out, but it does work)
My dad is just a stubborn megalomaniac.

Your dad sounds a total bully, and I would not want my kids around him. Toxic to you all.

Going to be a hard one getting him to agree to move into a unit I suspect! And where would funding come from? Sale of the house?
Then where would you live? (or does he live with you?)

Sadly it does sound like he may need to be in a home for dementia? It is not failure to admit this, you need to put yourself and more importantly your kids first.

Sorry if this is not helpful, but clearly we don't have all the facts so running a little blind.
Sounds like you need a little 'you' time though, and a hug. You are not alone! Keep chatting on here, hopefully someone can give you some advice that works for you.

(Like buy an airhorn;)
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Kthin, it makes me so sad that his behavior means he thinks you're his wife. Do you mean his rants are based on your having 'cheated on him' or something? If he has glee when you get upset, I'd say also that this is past the point of him being in a regular home situation. Yes, walking away from him is good, but you have to go right back after, so that doesn't help for long. I agree that your kids are a big reason this doesn't work anymore. You can't be there for others when you're a pressure cooker inside.

Your 'elder sister, who he defies'... Soo, she can't handle him either? Sounds like she doesn't want to anyway? I got a little teary reading this post, my mother of 82 has released anger and bile toward me since I can remember, but I don't think she's had dimentia since her 40s. His care needs are all you need to ensure, please make other arrangements for him out of love - for him and your family.
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MAggie, I also found your reply offensive.
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Difficult and hurtful situation.
Some folks suggested it is time for NH. It really may be, you need to at least consider it.

As for your sister, she is very immature to laugh at such a thing. Is there any talking to her? If she is such a simpleton that she cannot realize the situation, you need to distance yourself emotionally. By this I mean that you need someone else to be your go to person when you need to vent....you have AC.
Best of luck.
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I would have to agree with most of the previous posters. If there is any way you can remove you / your family from this situation it would probably be best. However, if that is not possible, it would be better for your family to see you dealing with this in a more healthy way. I believe telling him forthright when he begins a rant, that if he can't be nice, you will not listen and then leave the room. The child having a tantrum was a good example.....often times the rant continues simply because they think they have an audience. As long as there is an audience, the tantrum thrower controls the situation. No audience usually means it won't be worth the effort of expending the energy to continue said rant. Let's hope your father catches on to this quickly! God bless!
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even though you knows it the disease talking, its still verbal abuse and sorry you have to deal with that. even though you tell yourself its not YOU he lashing at, it still goes into your mind/heart. I guess there is no easy way when they get like this other than possibly saying: if this is how you are going to act, I will be back later when you can be nicer and then walk away. yes you worry and your sister apparently is not helping you at all. maybe you should leave for awhile and let her there to deal with it for awhile. tell her you will be back (but don't mention when).......and see how she will handle things. maybe she will be enlightened at what all you do and handle. if not, then she doesn't have a heart or just doesn't care. some of us do what we can for as long as we can and then it just has to stop. please take care of yourself, both physcially and mentally. the verbal abuse is the worst, the wounds never truly disappear.
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How old are the children who are apparently witnessing your father's abusive behavior? It occurs to me, depending on their age and prior history with their grandfather, that this hateful attitude might be their overwhelming memory of him. My thoughts are that you should seek the advice of a healthcare and/or mental healthcare professional. I don't know what type of mental evaluation your father has had. I bet that you could receive advice taylor-made for your situation. Possibly a professional could evaluate and advise about your children. Possibly there is nothing that will modify the venom you are receiving. I am not good not letting painful comments, even those not meant for me, roll off my back. I hope some of the suggestions here are useful. People here care.
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Look your father doesn't know what he is saying he is out of his mind. The bigger problem is apparently he is saying these things to his wife. If she is the primary caregiver, I would see if the doctor has any advice. Otherwise when caring for him, tell him who you are, that information may or may not be mentally processed by him. Perhaps wear earplugs so you don't hear his actual words. If he was in his right mind he would not be saying these things, his illness is speaking, not him.
Whether it is unkind remarks or other habits --as an elder changes even with their facilities they say and do things which are out of character for their younger selves. I don't see lots of benefit to wasting time telling them why they should have acted better. The elderly seem to feel free to truly express themselves without the social filters middle aged people observed.

Just don't take the unkind words to heart, try to remember how he used to speak and behave before the illness.
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My mother was suffering from a "demented" state of mind in July of this year. She is 85. My mother lashed out at my wife who has done nothing but support me taking care of my mother. My mother lives in my home and she called 911 to have us both removed from "her house." Her primary care physician consulted a psychiatrist who put her on haldol 1.5 mg at night and 1 mg with 25mg of tresadone in morning. I have my mom back like she was when I was a kid. She is kind, gentle, loving, and treats my wife like her long lost friend now. The doctor said that dementia was starting to take over but the medication for some reason alters the state of mind and reverses it. While all the warnings are not to be used in elderly patients for dementia, I took the chance and got my mom back. The aggression is gone and her short term memory is back.
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kthln3 The object is to distract him and cut him off before he even starts. Try to notice what triggers the outbursts. Keep him engaged with everything positive. Strategies that have worked for me at least once....Smile must be plastered on your face while you are talking to him. 1. SShhhh him. We don't talk like that, You are scaring everyone, the children, baby, etc. 2. Today is such a great day. Try to get him to say Yes Isn't it such a nice day? Isn't the weather so nice? (Doesn't matter if you are in a snow storm) Today is our lucky day....Keep saying very positive things over and over 3. Offer him a drink, cookie, cracker, hard candy (Get something in his mouth to stop tirade.) 4. Play music, hand him a magazine, picture. Hope it helps. It does not sound like your sister is any help. I guess you could grab your purse and run anywhere and let her deal with him!
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to Rich985: on your remark about halidol: not sure where you are located but in my town, Gettysburg PA, if anyone is on halidol, they won't accept them in a nursing home IF it comes to that. not sure why, but they had given that to my father when in hospital only to find out that when he was going to be released to nursing facility, he had to be OFF the halidol for 48 hours.
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So, maggiemarshal: sounds like you have it all figured out!!! Sounds like you are saying put up and shut up with all that a dementia diseased person can dish out......because they don't know what they're doing. WRONG!!! You must have nerves of steel and absolutely zero emotions. Get real. It's so not cool when people here get on their high horse and preach like an arm chair quarterback. Have some compassion.......THIS IS THE SH*TTIEST JOB ON EARTH!!
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Oh, and before some of you go at me and say, "If you can't handle it....." I AM handling it.....just being real. If you ain't in it, DON'T SPIN IT.
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On another discussion group Iris L. commented: "are running yourself ragged trying to rationalize the irrational."
Conversing with a LO who has Alzheimers is often like talking with your cat. Acknowledge, respond, be affectionate, develop boundless patience. Forget about rational responses. Show respect, your therapeutic fictional reponses are allowed {they may not work}. Try to accept the mind is damaqed by Alzheimer's Disease. Forget about rational responses. We can run ourselve ragged trying to rationalize the irrational behaviors Easy to say, impossible to live with.
~DLMifm

try to accept the mind is damaged by Alzheimer's Disease. Forget about rational responses. we can run ourselves ragged trying to rationalize the irrational behaviors
Easy to say, impossible to live with .."Take a BREAK often | You get to start over"
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@ wolfover I'm in Louisiana. I know it is very difficult to get a prescription for it. Has to be by a psychiatrist. Well, the primary care ordered some but only 2 months worth until I could get her seen by a psychiatrist. Haldol is usually used for schizophrenia. Also, chances of falls in elderly increase as well as sudden death while taking it. However, taking it she doesn't need a nursing home or anything else. Don't know how long this will last but it has been well worth the risk for all of my family. Without it, I would have lost my mom to dementia.
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There was a point when I thought mom felt more "alive" thinking she could get a "rise" out of me. Since your dad lost his primary aggression outlet (your mom) to an NH, you may be the next best thing. If he knows he can push our buttons he will and enjoy it immensely. I know how it hurts and the "water off a duck's back" thing I haven't been able to master myself but we must continue to try and present that tough as nails shell around us. Any way you can remove the fuel from his fire: Walk away, smile, laugh & tell him he's silly.
Teepa Snow has excellent video seminars on YouTube. Senior Helpers National channel.
Behavior modification in the elderly is really difficult. Can you talk to his doc and quietly get him on paxil or sertraline possibly under the guise of something else? I got to the point where I would pass notes to mom's doc without saying anything & it worked for us. I hope you find a remedy & some peace in your family.
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I was a caregiver for my dad until he went to the NH. He did call me my moms name one time. I didn't like it at all. It gave me a funny feeling. Of course I didnt say anything and I think he realized he said it so we just ignored it. It did not happen again. I took it as a compliment to myself because he must have felt comfortable with me and trusts me to have let himself say that. Your sister needs to grow up. Obviously that is why you are the caregiver.
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Challenges, I hear the pain, in kthln3, not just with the words of your father, but also the hurt when your fears and feelings are written off quickly by your sister. I appreciate how people stood up to Maggie here, and I also appreciate her apology, and explanation - there is something amusing, on the surface, about some of the conversations elders wgerith dementia have - but it's not really funny, it's very sad.


I agree with two solutions offered here - 1, notice the triggers, and make it a project to either prevent them or deal with them quickly, and no other conversation other than, I'm sorry, I know you'd like some water now. Get it, and leave, always trying to say, "I'll be back in ......"

Many elders are triggered when you show some tiny bit of resentment in your approach, maybe even of martyrdom - important to make your own rest a priority, even if it means changing your schedule to allow naps in the afternoon. Find books you want to read, tasks you want to do, and leave them nearby, and when you get a chance to step away, whether it's because of his words, or you are pacing your own energy - always say you'll be back, but do your best to take the breaks - helping yourself, can help you feel less dominated by others.

When you smile, do it because you are just trying to help, or because you see something good or amusing in him - not to rebuild a relationship. I think the way to rebuild, especially with men - is through actions rather than conversations of any kind. I feel that many women idealize nice conversations - and sure enough, some families have them, and they may solve some things. But this expectation makes some men angry, they feel an expectation to speak in ways they find false or foreign. Notice the times your father passes you his tray, or moves so you can give him care, and say "thanks." Respond to positive actions.

When it comes to the words, I like the person's advice here, of saying, "I will listen to you when you're being nice. When you're not, I don't have to listen." And leave. Try to always explain yourself just like that, before you leave, and say, "I'll be back in 15 minutes - or whatever time he can handle without being checked.

It's not an instant process - it's one of gradual improvement and I hope you notice the small changes, and celebrate them yourself - and don't take any setback as back to zero - just as a temporary setback, in a gradually improving process of learning to cope with a very hurtful and physically challenging situation.
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Hello kthln3 , I understand your pain , even though you know its not meant for you , its still very disturbing . How was your relationship with your dad by the past ? By acting this way without making it by purpose you are not the child anymore , you can feel what you mom feel , and for thisyou need to be strong and differenciate logic and feeling . Maybe does it hurt you because you can imagine how your mother feel when he tell her this ? try to separate yourself from this and tell yourself that everyone is unique , and that you shouldnt carry all this weight , take care
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Does Dad have dementia? Is he on any meds? Maybe doc can prescribe something different, to calm him down. I am not saying to sedate him or knock him out, just something that might make him a little milder. It's time for you to take care of Number One.... which is YOU. Can he, should he be put in a nursing home or assisted living facility? If it's possible, try to cut contact and conversation with the sister. You have enough on your plate without someone else shoveling more on it.
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