Hi all. Here is my situation that I could use a bit of advice with. I am 37 and am an only child. My husband and I live less than 10 minutes from my parents. My mother is almost 73 and my dad is 80. They struggle quite a bit financially as they live solely on monthly social security benefits. My husband and I have always helped them as much as we can, but it has been more and more frequent over the last 4-5 years.
In 2013 or 2014, their only vehicle died and they could not afford to buy a new one. My husband and I had 2 SUVs, but since I work from home full-time, we really only used one of them. One of them we had just finished paying off and the other one we were still making payments on. When their car died, my parents asked if they could borrow one of ours, to which we said yes. We gave them the one that was paid off. A few weeks later, my dad called me and asked if they could borrow it "indefinitely," meaning that it would stay at their house for them to use, but it would still be ours and we could use it anytime we wanted. My husband and I agreed to do this. Well, about 6 months later, while my dad was at a stop sign (it was snowing), when a truck came flying around the corner, hitting the front end of our vehicle, causing significant damage. Thankfully, my dad was not hurt, but the vehicle was a 100% loss. The other driver's insurance paid us what they deemed it was worth, but it was not enough to buy a new vehicle outright. My parents constantly hounded me about getting them a new vehicle, which would mean that we would have to take on a new payment. At one point, my father even said to me, "If your mother and I don't have a vehicle, we may as well just roll over and die."
That spring, my husband and I went out and bought ourselves a new vehicle (we financed it) and gave my parents our other vehicle, which we have been making payments on the entire time. Thankfully, we only have about 6-8 months worth of payments left on it. On top of that, we also pay for my parents' phone service and have them on our family plan. We help them with food also.
The issue now is with my mother and her incessant guilt trips. Last week, she was telling me about how their cable services were going to be shut off because they can't pay the bill until they get their SS checks on the 3rd. Later that day, my mother texted me and asked if we could lend them $50. She said if we could do that, then they could just overdraft their bank account to pay the cable bill. We gave them the $50. Well, a few days later, my mom texted me and said that the check they used to pay cable will actually NOT clear, so they will still be shut off. I said I would see if we could help pay some of it, to which she replied, "Oh, no! Don't you worry about it. We will be fine." A few days later, she texted me in the morning saying, "Hi. How are you? We are just sitting here waiting for our cable to be shut off. We went to the food pantry and all they gave us were noodles and black beans, but don't you worry. We are fine." I responded by saying, "Do you have any idea what it does to me when I wake up and see texts like this from you?" She then apologized all over the place. Then, this morning, I woke up to a text from her saying, "You won't believe what I did. I broke the new coffee maker you got us. I feel horrible. I lifted the top and it got stuck under the cabinet and snapped off. I'm so sorry. I know it was expensive. If you don't want to talk to me ever again, I understand." She then told me how she had been crying about it all morning and said they now have no way to make coffee. I said we couldn't replace it right now, but she said, "No! Don't worry about it." However, I KNOW she wants us to replace it.
She always does this pity party/guilt trip with me.
I can't take much more. She is getting worse and I feel guilty for being at my breaking point, but I am starting to feel resentment. I worry about them enough. Any advice?
You are not responsible to bail them out every time they call and complain.
To me, they are acting like spoiled kids who don't want to hear "no" -but expect you to jump at their beck and call. Do they NEED full cable? Do they NEED brand-new appliances? Do they know what a budget is?
Enabling them doesn't help them or you... it just keeps the crazy cycle in motion.
A book on boundaries might be helpful for you, as well as a great book that changed my life called "The Dance of Anger" ( relationships where there is a crazy cycle of 'dancing' that are predictable responses to each other, and when you begin to change for yourself - they enact all sorts of 'change-back' tactics to get back to the crazy yet comfortable old way of relating.)
You could always say, " So sorry to hear that, mom... we are going through a tight time financially right now, too." Or, " Wow -how challenging. What are you going to do about that?" Or, " I can always look at a thrift shop for a coffee maker for you - as they seem to break so easily for you." Or, "I am glad that you are fine and are handling those challenges so well."
When accused of not loving them or caring, say, " Thank you for sharing your feelings, mom... it helps me to understand you better." ( Don't take it personally - don't enter into the 'dance' by taking the bait offered.. just thank her.)
NOT an easy process, by any means... ( !!! )but slowly... choice by choice... with lots of practice... you will be able to stand as the adult that you are while viewing the situation with a bit of detachment that is healthier for you and for them.
In fact, my husband and I bought them a brand new 55" smart TV and sound bar for the holidays since we wanted to do something really nice for them. When they found out their cable was going to be shut off, my mother texted me and said, "Do you think you'll be able to come over soon and set up the new TV so we can enjoy it for what little time we have left with cable until we can afford to pay it?" Ugh.....
Just to add, they don't have full cable. It is the lowest package you can get. They have it bundled with their internet and phone. My mother has difficulty just standing with all of her back issues (she's had 3 surgeries), so she does watch a lot of TV. It's really all she can do these days.
Best of luck!!!
‘Help’ from you isn’t going to change anything for them, but it will for you and your husband. You are getting over-exposed to the demands and the guilt trips, your husband is getting angry with the bludging. You can still say ‘I love my parents very much’, but the love will shrivel if you don’t set some boundaries.
Perhaps you could offer to do a budget with them and assist them to monitor it. Fairly clearly, their expectations exceed their financial circumstances. Even talking through a budget might bring reality closer (though I have some doubts, after such a long track record).
One fairly radical alternative might be to encourage them to move into Independent or Assisted Living, where their expenses would be clearer and their expectations and opportunities to waste would be less.
The only other alternative that seems likely is a flat refusal to ‘help’. It will obviously lead to a major drama and probably a period of estrangement. When that is over, other alternatives might come along. Good luck!
PS sorry about posting twice, the computer was not responding and I thought it had vanished, so I kept thinking.
They don't need cable/internet/phone bundle, as they have a cell phone you pay for. Until they manage to pull together to pay for it themselves, you could buy a wall mount antenna. They can look at that $1k TV on the wall until they decide to hock it.
Your vehicle needs to come home. You don't make payments on a vehicle that your parents drive after they've already totaled yours(no matter who was at fault). I bet you have not updated your insurance policy to cover them driving it either- the insurance company can decline to cover the next wreck they have in your vehicle. What if that one kills someone and your insurance declines?
It's time you put on the big girl panties and say enough is enough. Let your hubby do the heavy lifting if you don't have the heart. But you must say no often.
As far as the home phone, yes, they do need that. They have a Life Alert button due to their medical issues that will only function with a landline. My mother can barely even walk and watching TV is the only source of pleasure she has these days, so I completely understand that. I plan on contacting the cable company this week to inquire if there is any way of lowering their monthly bill.
And since they need a landline, it's time to cut the cell phones and basic cable. I pay $21 every 3 months for a basic tracphone that works fine. The internet can work on the TV. It's great that you plan to help them lower their bills, but *do not* put your credit card on the account.
I never said you were stupid. I think you have a choice to make: supporting your husband or your parents. There's a biblical mandate to leave and cleave.
I have never once put our debit or credit card on ANY of their accounts, and they would never ask me to do so. Also, I do not "support" my husband. He also has a job and works just as many hours as I do.
You've already said that they can't move but they can't keep the house up either. I would assume the help they are getting for repairs means they now need to stay where they are for a certain # of years. It did my Aunt. She got new windows and a heater but had to live in the house ten yrs or pay for the upgrades. If this is not the situation, maybe its time they move. They don't have to do the hard work. Here where I live there is subsidized housing. Rent is 30% of total SS. They have activities and the local bus picks them up for errands and such.
Cable...there are antennas out there for digital. Just like the old analog. They would probably get the same stations they do on Cable. One time purchase. R parents getting Medicaid as insurance? I guess food stamps could be considered assistance. Comcast has a program for people on assistance. If they qualify, they pay 9,99 a month for cable. My nephew gets basic cable and internet for under $35 a month. He has his cell with another provider.
Are your parents paying for a suppliment to Medicare. If income low enough they maybe able to get Medicaid for health insurance.
They get help with heating but what about electric?
Have they looked into discounts for property taxes. Freezing them?Getting discount on water usage? Some people are not aware of what they are entitled to.
Your uncle was generous but did them no favors. Maybe if they had to live within their budget they would have realized that they couldn't keep the house. The proceeds of a sale could have offset the expense of an apartment. Or even rent a smaller place without the hassle of the upkeep.
My Mom had no money to upkeep her home. I now have a house I cannot sell because of all the work needed and as a retiree, can't afford to have done.
Have you been able to sit down with them and see where the money is going? I handled Moms money and if she was still alive, I doubt if her SS and $200 pension would have covered her bills. I wish I had talked to her into renting an apartment and selling her house ten yrs ago. Cost of living keeps going up and those on fixed incomes are hurting.
If Moms problem is lifelong, a learned behaviour, I doubt if you are going to change her. A maybe "Mom I wish you would stop doing that. We do as much as we possibly can but we have our bills and debts too. If you need something ask. I will tell you if we can afford to do it or not."
I may make them realize that the car they have is it. If anything happens to it, they will need to use senior bussing for errands and Dr. Visits. Dad being 80 one day may not be able to drive anyway.
I think rocketcat has a good idea about getting your parent's finances in order!
But I have to say, I am not sure what you want! You say, you can afford and want to help your parents, however, you don't like how your mom plays the pity party. You have also stated that your mom doesn't demand you to buy things or pay their bills, but as a outsider looking in, she doesn't have to, she just guilts you into doing what she wants. There is a fine line to helping someone and being used by someone! I am just putting that out there!
Here is few questions to ask yourself:
Is this a new behavior or has your mom always guilted you to buy things or pay their bills?
Why do you think your mom just doesn't come out and say, "I broke the coffeemaker; I'm sorry! Can you get us a new one?"
Or why she can't say, "our cable will be shut off can you help pay on it?" Instead she goes for the drama of "oh no, don't worry about it, we'll be find," just to turn around and call you and ask you "If they are just waiting to get their cable shut off?"
Have you really sat down with mom and said, "mom I don't like it when you (fill in the blanks). Besides mom, you know I am happy to help you just need to tell me straight out, that's all."
What I am trying to figure out and what you need to figure out is "What is your mom's motive behind all of this?" If you can answer that than you can stop the whole pity party/guilt trip!
Is it for attention? Out of fear? Wanting to feel in control?
Just my 2 cents!
"But I have to say, I am not sure what you want! You say, you can afford and want to help your parents, however, you don't like how your mom plays the pity party. You have also stated that your mom doesn't demand you to buy things or pay their bills, but as a outsider looking in, she doesn't have to, she just guilts you into doing what she wants. There is a fine line to helping someone and being used by someone! I am just putting that out there!"
Mudrunner hasn't asked for ideas to help her parents. She just wants her mother to change a lifetime pattern. I doubt mom will change.
Mudrunner might start looking at her husband who is already getting tired of being taken advantage of. He might just decide he doesn't want any more of this and leave. I would, in fact I told my last husband that if he wanted a family no more money to his mom.
I think you are a loving daughter and that is why you do for your parents.
I have been trying to figure out this guilt thing that many caregivers feel. Sometimes I think it just goes with the territory and sometimes I think it must be something within ourselves that we allow these feelings.
I believe that when our parents become reliant on our help, they often become childlike in asking for the help, because it may be embarrassing for them, or whatever it be. It can't be pleasant for a parent to change roles with their child. So it could be that your Mom looks to you for help, as she trusts you and she knows that you will if you can. But, yet she is awkward in her approach because she doesn't like asking.
I just look at it this way, my parents are the only parents I will have, I have already lost my Dad, and one day may lose my Mom. Anything I choose to do for her, whether she asks me or I do on my own accord, is a gift. I do not expect anything in return, not even a thank you. These feelings of guilt, unfortunately are ours to own them and deal with them. We cannot be upset with them for making us feel this way. No one can make us feel this way, it is us.
You are tremendously blessed that you still have both of them and that they do not live with you. I would try and rid myself of the guilt and just love them. Easier said than done I know, I am still working on that. But they are not to blame for our guilt.
I hope you find the answers you need, and May God bless you in this journey.
IMO OP needs to sit down with her mother & tell her this.
Other than that, since it’s ok with OP to supplement her parents’ inability to manage their own finances, that’s all that needs to be done. Talk to mother & make it clear it’s not what she is asking for it’s “how” her mother is asking it. (Texts first thing in the morning would put me off too).
However, If the daughter’s husband is now beginning to verbalize that he feels her mother is taking advantage of daughter’s good graces (while giving THEIR money to HER mother frequently) perhaps it is time for daughter to discuss this with her husband & listen to his issues. Constantly forking over money they both work hard for to her mother because mother can’t manage her money or her carelessness with presents (coffee maker, et al) may be affecting the daughter’s husband’s future financial stability and then, if so, well, Houston, we got a problem.
Its obvious from daughter’s rebuttals to suggestions that she is perfectly fine throwing her parents money for stupid mistakes mother makes. We can go on all day stating our opinions ( those I absolutely agree with and am wondering why her mother feels it necessary to continue to guilt her daughter into supplementing mother’s needs) but the real problem I see is now daughter’s husband is scratching his head and saying “wtf”?
Me thinks husband is not happy and that daughter came here to vent her feelings and find reasons to rationalize her mother’s childlike behaviors.
I am hoping daughter can put the needs of her nuclear family (husband) first & realize how unreasonable it is for her mother to emotionally blackmail her (as some stated). This is not a normal parent/child relationship , mudrunner. It’s just not.
Work on saying “no” to mother and “yes” to acknowledging your husband’s concerns if you want to save your marriage.
Your parents expect you and your husband to subsidise their lifestyle because you have done.
I don't say that their lifestyle is excessively luxurious, or that they even see what you give them as a subsidy. But the fact is that they are living beyond their budget; and if you are to restore to them their self-respect, and to rid yourself of this horrid whiny little gremlin constantly gnawing at you, then what is needed is a review of their budget and a good hard look at how it can be made to meet their needs.
It's possible that it *can't* be made to meet what you all agree are their legitimate expectations, if not their actual bare-bones needs, and other resources will need to be looked for. But it's also possible that there are hidden issues like credit card debt or overdraft interest eating into their monthly income.
Fact is: your parents are making you responsible for their welfare. This makes it imperative that they also share with you the full details of their income and outlays so that you can work together to get this under control. You can make that a condition of your continued support, if you like; but come what may if there are cans of worms around you need to know what's in them.
My first suggestion is that when she drops 'hints'...and that is just what she is doing...ignore them or gloss over them. Every time she hints that she has a problem (like the coffee maker) you just in with a solution. That is what she is expecting without having to ask for it. That is her learned helplessness. Either ignore the next hint or ask her what she plans on doing about it. Put the ball back in her court to figure out. If she doesn't get that instant gradification of your fixing her problem she might back off on the hinting. Maybe suggest she go to Goodwill to get a replacement coffee maker instead of you providing a new Keurig. Just start playing dumb when she hints about things.
This hits so close to home (not mine, thank goodness) but my sons. His inlaws, in fact, his wife's ENTIRE FAMILY think that my kids are walking, talking ATMs.
Somebody can't make the house payment? Call B&B. Somebody got pregnant by a junkie parolee? Call B&B and demand the $10K that they gave you 7 years ago when this happened the first time. Truck breaks down? Oh, B&B will get that for you.
Makes me absolutely furious, but I keep my feelings to myself. Son is an attorney, DIL is a Dr., so yep, they're making waaaaay too much money. But it's THEIRS, not the whole family's.
My son has put up with this for 16 years--shoot, even when they were in grad school DIL's family would come a-begging. And they were never turned away.
In fact, one time, WE got on the hook for somebody's airline tickets to NY. I only found out about that a long time after the fact.
BOUNDARIES. That's what it finally took--and is taking. Big, ugly, loud boundaries.
We don't live anywhere near them, in fact, they chose to go 1000 miles away for the "real jobs" b/c of my DIL's family. Doesn't matter, they are always up there, staying for a week or a month---
My son is such a little bull dog, but does a terrible job standing up to the inlaws.
I noticed on Christmas that my DIL's mom was sporting a new outfit on FB and was thanking my DIL and my son for all the "generous gifts". What did his dad and I get from them? Not. One. Thing.
This doesn't bother me, as we don't WANT OR NEED their money. But to have them wave it in our faces is hurtful.
My son has learned that "no" is a complete sentence, and his wife is slowly learning that she can't back down to PT work as he kids hit teenager-hood b/c she spent so much of her money on her family.
It's a very ugly dynamic and very frustrating. And none of my business.
If you don't tell mom and dad no--they'll never stop asking, and in your heart, you know that, right?
You're not doing anyone any favors. Help them to establish a budget and possibly get them in the habit of paying in cash, when possible.
Probably sell the oversize house, too. Yes-it's a mess, but you'll find some peace in the end if you deal with this now.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Is this the new ND ? I live with my 91 year old parent that thrives on that and
you are the first to mention the term. More pointers please - thanks !
One comment you made was regards your parents having a mortgage. It is a financial/retirement imperative to not have a mortgage at retirement. And it is a blunder many seniors seem to make, my father included. That and other outstanding debts.
The situation with your parents is causing stress in your marriage. It is personally causing you stress dealing with the texts.
In my situation with Dad, I will not enable his behaviour, my brother does. But due to a complicated trust , tax and property situation I have had to pay $21,000 in 2018 to preserve an inheritance worth $500,000 in the trust.
In your situation, you appear to be upset my Mum’s manipulation through guilt. Your husband is nearing the end of his rope.
What can you do to change things?
You day Mum has been rewarded by her behaviour since she was a young child. Nobody gave her boundaries and she got her way. She has used her manipulation successfully with you and has no reason to stop.
Yoo need to sit down with your husband and decide between the two of you how much you will give them each month. Once you have that number in place, subtract the car payment, the insurance, their portion of the cell bill etc. You do not have to share the remaining number with your folks, but once it is spent, you just tell them there is no more money in your monthly budget.
You will get push back from Mum, but just repeat, I do not have any extra money this month.
Now you said you have no idea how much money your parents have, nor their expenses. If I were your spouse, I would very firmly put my foot down and say, no more helping them until I see a budget. I did this with my Dad and it was quite amazing to see how he spends his money. The credit card interest alone was more than my mortgage payment.
I know you have repeatedly said you love your parents and can ‘afford’ to help them, but is is placing a cost on your marriage that you cannot afford to keep paying. A parent who says no to their child’s wants does not love them less than a parent who gives a child everything they desire.
Many parents expect their kids to get a job, save up the money to buy their first car. Other families are happy to buy their kids a car. It appears your folks are in the second camp, except the roles are switched and you are expected to give them the car, and cover the insurance.
I hear you when you say the TV is Mum’s main activity, but shouldn’t that mean it is a priority when they pay their bills? In my part of the world, you are not cut off for one late payment. How many months late is it? I think it is telling that Mum did not want you to call the cable company.
How do you deal with Mum’s early morning texts? There are different ways, you will have to find the one that works for you, but the thing they have in common is changing your behaviour, so she learns that the old way is no longer working.
Turn off text alerts.
Do not respond until after work or dinner. Just because she sent it early does not mean you have to reply right away.
Block her texts.
As as far as the coffee maker incident goes, ‘gee Mum, that’s too bad, I guess you will have to drink instant until your next pension cheque.’ Or pull the old one out of the cupboard and use it.
Sounds mean? No, it is Parenting. Yup, you are now in the parental seat. Did you feel guilty when you told your kids No. Think about it.
I took care of my parents. Your job is to see to their safety and well-being. That's it. When your mom calls with one of her guilt trips, change the subject for no more than five minutes. Thank her for calling and get on with YOUR life.
It doesn't have to be a big facility. It can be a home with 3 to 6 bedrooms with people their age. You just have to start with the talk.
I feel your pain, it seems like when our parents get older any type of etiquette or Manor just seems to be thrown out the window. I remember when the phone calls started and it just went into a rant never good morning how are you how are the kids etc etc. I am just wondering how involved you are in your parents medical part of their lives this sounds like when my mother started with this first stages of dementia.we were not aware of it at that time but it definitely increased in the phone calls never see you I don't have any money no one feeds me ... mind you I had a different circumstance my mother can't drive she's in a wheelchair but she would find other things to obsess over . it sounds like you are doing a lot for your parents right now and I know it's hard to get over the guilt but you will for your own sanity. just a suggestion to maybe start going to a couple of their doctor's visits and it might be a point where you take over their finances for them. Best of luck use this forum as a tool it has been a lifesaver!
As far as cable goes they don’t need it. We cut cable over a year ago and use an indoor antenna for local channels and stream Netflix etc. people live without cable all the time.
Im sorry you’re dealing with this but the sooner you stop and set firm boundaries the easier it will be to live with them as your parents.
Give them a monthly allowance if it makes you live with yourself and level with them and say that you and your husband live within a budget and they must too. Sit down and list their "must have" (not nice to have) categories and total them up and see where they are. Throw in an extra $20 fun money and tell them that’s it. Because unlike them, you are saving for your old age. It’s so sad that you’re having to be the parent. Set boundaries now. They won’t like it but their lot in life is their own making. Good luck!
My mom is 81 and she has 6 children. I am the youngest of the girls. She use to call me from 3-10 time per day until I put a stop to it. We got into a disagreement and that was enough for her to stop calling which is good for me. She was driving me crazy with her boredom talk. She gets bored a lot because she has nothing to do and likes to take up all my time to entertain her.