Does anyone have experience going Gray Rock when you can't go no contact?

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Does anyone have experience going Gray Rock when you can't go no contact?

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Mom is 91, has moderately severe dementia and NPD. Brother, 60, is former meth addict, NPD, Borderline PD, TBI, and has moved in with her. He is the type of narcissist that can talk for 1 hour without taking a breath and doesn't even know it. He uses anger, self-pity and charm as forms of manipulation to get my mother to do whatever he wants. He is extremely competitive and jealous of anyone who has even a little bit of my mom's attention. I choose not to go no contact due to being in charge of her trust (there is a large inheritance that I don't want my brother to steal). I am working with a therapist who says I should study Gray Rock and recommends that as the way to go. Can anyone share some insight or tips from personal experience with me? Thank you

Alzheimer's & Dementia Narcissism Relationships

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Yes. Gray. Rock. Give nothing that can be used as fuel. Do not feed. You are a Gray Rock.

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Update: Gray Rock is working! In the very beginning it was hard because, as others in this forum advised me, I felt a lot of anger but could not let it show. But as the combination of Boundaries and Grey Rock began to take effect on my narcissistic-and-paranoid-personality-disordered brother, I stopped being his "Target of Blame." Now I can have contact with him (limited), remain pretty calm and open, but still alert to Boundary crossing. As soon as he even starts to shift blame on me, I either apply a physical boundary by leaving ("I'm out of here") which sends a message right away, or in some instances apply a truth boundary ("You don't like X and are looking for someone to blame, then lash out at me. Knock it off.") If he is not crossing my boundaries, then I remain nice and calm, helpful and kind, but careful not to make myself interesting and Never Ever share anything personal or form any emotional bond with him. It is more of a clinical relationship. Anyway, that's how it is going. Best to all!

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I am so happy this is working for you. It is hard to change but you are doing amazaing! Putting the truth boundary out there takes real courage. You have inspired me today.

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Updating all of you helpful souls: I am beginning to understand more about Gray Rock and how I don't want to provoke the negative and aggressive behavior (of my brother) while at the same time needing to feel empowered and let MY mind and body know that I have a choice and am NOT a victim. It is tricky. My therapist wants me to decide right now how I am going to handle the holidays this year. In the past my mother has adamantly told me that I must include my brother, even though he ruins every get-together, at least for one person whom he targets and talks non-stop to the entire evening. My adult children don't like it, to say the least. So in the upcoming holidays I have decided that my husband and I will take Mom out to a very special dinner at an elegant place alone, not with my brother, in advance of the holiday. I will let him and my mother enjoy the holiday by themselves as he is living with her. Hubbie and I can then share a really joyful holiday with my children and their significant others. Last two years (after Mom's head injury) I resorted to going to a cheap restaurant for the holiday meal with everyone - just because I didn't want to go through all of the trouble to do all of the cooking just to have my brother spoil it in my home. (He states he hates Christmas, etc.) It went better at the restaurant, but now I am ready to take the next step, to take back my own holidays in my home with my kids and make it a real celebration! Mom's doctor told me today that a letter of incompetence is in the mail, so I can share it with the lawyer and rest assured that no one - no salesman or former husband or son can take advantage of her. Taking it day by day, staying Gray Rock, and hoping for the best!

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Sounds like a great plan! Hope it all goes as desired...

I tried to get others together for "special" days, it was easiest to go to the MC place and pay them for the meal (get more food and nicer meal for less elsewhere!), but it is a lot of effort just trying to get an answer and then trying to get everyone at the same time/day. I think my coordinating days are OVER. Sitting home alone with my cats, no matter what day of the year it is, could be preferable... ;-)

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My therapist recommended an audiobook (also in print) that I began listening to this weekend. It is called "5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life" by Bill Eddy. Bill is a psychotherapist, lawyer, and mediator and developed the concept of the High Conflict Personality. He identifies certain personality disorders that can also be High Conflict Personalities and tells you specific tips on how to deal with each type. These personality disorders include narcissists, anti-socials, paranoids, borderlines, and histrionics. So far my brother fits the profile of the borderline (he was formally diagnosed as this), narcissist and paranoid (to a tee). As I was listening, during one chapter I thought to myself, oh, that would never work with my brother..... and then later when I came to the chapter on the Paranoid Personality Disorder, the recommendations were different - and they felt spot on! I wanted to share this resource with so many that are in similar situations. Best to you!

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DofNPDmother;

I agree with janeinspain - bring someone else with you when you have to visit mom or talk to him. He doesn't need to know why and will likely "behave" when someone else is there. At least you are aware of how he is and that he can "turn on the charm", but also can turn that off in an instant!

My OB was abusive to me when we were young (physically, verbally, emotionally.) As we got older and spent less time together, it did seem to get better. Being separated as adults, only seeing each other on occasion and others would be there, his "behavior" seemed okay. I was concerned about my niece when I observed some of his treatment of her, but had no idea how bad it was. She and I have talked about it since.

He came here several times to help clearing out mom's condo. Last time was May 2018. I should have realized I had been given some warning signs during previous visits, but missed them. This last time he actually got very angry and crossed the room to throw me to the floor, twice. I told him to get out and the whole time he was packing up he was yelling and nasty! Two days later he shows up with a car load of crap from mom's to drop off. Not only do I not want this crap, I want nothing to do with him and wouldn't open up. Clearly he forgets all about the issue after it is over, but not me, not this time! He also is one to blame everyone else for whatever and criticizes everyone he works with or does any business with. Although he didn't stay home with mom and dad, he IS the golden boy. Often she will ask if I have heard from him. When I visit mom, I get "Oh, what're you doing here?" and/or "Where'd you come from?" When he showed up it was like Jesus came down from the cross!!! She fawned over him like there was no tomorrow! The most ironic part is he has no idea how to deal with her dementia and will likely never visit again (he isn't local either, thankfully. he will NEVER be welcome in my presence again and I have no plan to even talk to him ever again.) I had encouraged him to run up one morning with coffee and donut before we head to cleaning. The next time I suggested he go visit, he said he doesn't know what to do with her! THIS from one of two brothers who both said they'd take her in for the money it costs for MC (they had NO idea how expensive it is!)

So, yeah, don't go there alone. Although for now he seems more like the verbal/emotional abuser, you never know...

PS After this incident, I did some research. Although it is not well studied, there are indications that sibling abuse is more prevalent than any other form of domestic abuse! Most people chalk it up to sibling rivalry, boys will be boys and all that blather. There is a HUGE difference between sibling rivalry and abuse! Although they never did anything about him otherwise, they did move him upstairs before it was finished because they were afraid he was going to kill me at night (we had to share a room before that.)

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Thank you for sharing with me. Your OB is similar to mine. Mine actually did get violent in the past - once pulling a gun on me out of jealousy because I was painting my mother's bathroom, and once thrusting a knife into a wall while he had my mother pinned. Now, these incidents both took place long ago when he was a meth addict, so I don't expect this to happen now, but it makes me scared. He may not even remember these things. My husband said he will accompany me when I have to have a talk with my brother regarding issues that will rile him up. Otherwise, I go over regularly to take Mom out and will be Gray Rock and try not to be alone with him. Best to you!

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I’m like a few others here who had been using the Gray Rock technique for years without knowing it had a name. I have a narcissistic and paranoid brother who never left home, with well-meaning but tragically enabling parents who can no longer defend themselves against his manipulation but still think he is the cat’s meow. So like you said DofNPD it isn’t a typical elder abuse situation. There is coercive control happening and that is very challenging to grapple with. Good luck and welcome to the community of women enduring ‘brother fuckery.’ You’re in good company.

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Thank you for your response. This week I continued to use the Gray Rock technique with my brother, but was not "mean." My answers, if I felt I had to answer, were very short, like "Okay." He recognizes that I have changed and told me he doesn't want me to stop talking to him. For that I decided to respond in a sentence. I told him that he needed to stop being angry (which means stop being constantly angry and ranting to me about everyone and everything because I can't handle the stress). He sees things in "all or nothing" terms, blames others for everything, can't regulate his emotions, and engages in extreme behaviors. Right now, since he recognized that I was disconnecting myself from him, he is turning on the "charm" side of his manipulation. For decades my mother would put up with his abuse until she couldn't take it anymore and she'd explode and yell at him fiercely. Then he turned on the charm and she would say, "He's behaving like a Little Lamb now." It never lasts long. There are some matters that I need to consult with him on, and I am really dreading it - I am SCARED. Maybe I will ask my husband to help me.

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I take it a step further and use a visual technique where I imagine a bubble of healing white light around me. The narc can’t penetrate it no matter what they say and do, and more often, the negative energy bounces off me and right back at them! Just remember to do this before you visit and know you are protected from them. My nm actually stopped demanding things from me because I didn’t respond the way I normally would have responded. She tries other things, but again, the white light allows me to walk away and not get emotionally involved. I made a huge difference in my long saga of caring for my nm.

Perhaps the therapist has other visuals for you to incorporate into your visits.

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I am glad you got a therapist to help navigate dealing with a parent with NPD. I hope you find it helpful and get the support you need as well as support by sharing with others here. I never knew "grey rock" was a thing until last year. My parents are not super high on the NPD range, but my older sister is. Dealing with them all is just more than I can take if I put any priority on my own sanity, which I do. I had to endure my nephew's wedding for a weekend, and "grey rock" helped me survive many offensive maneuvers. You basically do not react to them. You kind of just do nothing. You do however verbally respond by saying something non-committal such as "Really, hmm." You do not show anger or frustration. What makes it difficult is that inside you have feelings rising within and you have to not interact with your normal impulses. It does work because the aggression does not escalate. The good and the bad is that it is all on your plate with how the outcome of your interactions with these people will turn out. It is exhausting, but can be accomplished for small amounts of time.

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I'm glad to read your post as I am going there this morning. My body reacts with fear even though I try not to think about it. Most likely it will be years that I have to do this, and I am only getting started. Did your sister recognize and comment about your Gray Rock when you first began the technique? My brother immediately questioned me. He used anger and intimidation at first, trying to claim that HE was "transparent" and I was hiding something. Then he turned to self-pity with remarks like "I'm your only brother. Aren't you going to talk to me? I see what you're doing. I can't sleep at night." He even told my mother that I was making him think about ending his life. This made my mother ask me to get along with him and be nice to him because "his brain is messed up." It also made her want to take thousands out of the bank to "make him happy." I told her that I was not going to be abused any more. The main thing is that I don't want to harbor dysfunctional feeling inside my own body while doing this. I have my own health issues and must avoid the constant adrenaline cycle. Will his behavior settle down if I keep this up? One good thing so far - he has stopped texting me.

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I think some people I've come accross in life are just plain old selfish - but today I met what has to be a full Narcisstic. Now I get it - & this was just a fleeting meeting!

I had read about 'grey rock' on this forum & tried it out today. She first tried oh pity me, then charm, then oh pity me again, looked confused... then tried charm again & finally tantrum. I left the room at that. GREAT tool! (I'll need to practice).

I was exhausted after 10 mins with this beast... like meeting an octopus who charms you closer then tries to squeeze the life out of you.

If NO contact is not possible, then LOW as can be contact + grey rock.

Thankyou for raising this topic.

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Your description is precisely what my brother is like. Exhausting!

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It's amazing that she made you trustee and not your crazy brother. My mother has severe NPD and had my sociopath sister as trustee for 30 years until the whole world was screaming NO and she changed it to another of her flying monkeys.

As an emotional person, gray rock is hard for me but you get better with practice. Visit as little as possible, avoid being around when her suck-ups, yes people and sychophants are there. Talk as little as possible and use a neutral tone of voice. Tell her only good things about your life--don't admit flaws or problems--they'll use it to smear you. Don't let them see that you are in pain, depressed or hurt--they'll enjoy it and feast on your wounds. Leave as soon as possible and stay gone as long as you can. Don't try to convince her of what's wrong or right--they don't care. Use the system to force to do things she needs to do but won't. For instance, my mother was driving almost-blind and wouldn't stop. She didn't care that she might kill someone so I turned her in to the DMV and they revoked her license.

I was completely estranged for 15 years and then went back for almost three years to try again. It was worse than before so I left again and will not be going back, ever. She's ruined the whole family so there's nothing there anyway.

Good luck. I hope you don't have to endure this much longer!

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Sounds more like you had a grey MOUNTAIN!!! ;-)

For many of us, being kind, helpful, etc is second nature, but when they take advantage or verbally abuse you, I would certainly not stick around. It was good of you to give it a second chance so many years later, sad that it wasn't any different. No real loss for you at this point.

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I started the "gray rock" method without knowing it had a name. My mother is verbally and emotionally abusive to me, deliberately says things that she knows will hurt me the most. Over the past year I have become gradually non-responsive to her comments. She still tries to bait me into an argument , but I just say hmm, mhmm, un-huh. Most of our communication is by phone, so I can hang up when she becomes abusive. I hang up the second she starts. She lives with my brother now and he is losing his mind. he was always the golden-haired boy. Now he is the object of her hatefulness, because I refuse to subject myself to it any more. I know one cannot change a narcissist, a nasty, mean person. All I can do is control how I respond to it. I choose not to subject myself to the abuse. It took years and years for me to understand this and then to implement it. Now, I call her once a week and she still tries to engage in arguments - usually when I respond to one of her comments, especially if I disagree with her. I try never to mention any disagreement. She seems energized and even joyful when she can start an argument and then spew out her nasty, abusive remarks. So, our communication is mostly her talking and me grunting mhmmm, hmmm, u-huh. This has helped me - my blood pressure is better, my blood sugar control has never been better in my life, I feel liberated in a way.

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Like you, I used this "method" on the ex mostly and had no idea it had a name or was even identified (started about 42 yrs ago, continued until kids were "emancipated", so no more need for contact.) I used to call it the "Leave it to Beaver" type dad method - he sits reading the paper while the wife prattles on and he interjects with mmm-hmmm, uh-huhs, yes dears.... Just enough to let the wife think he was listening...

Before our mother developed dementia, phone calls and visits were often negative, but she was lambasting everyone and his/her mother (gee, now that I write this, I wonder where my OB got this habit!!!) I just let her go on and on. I also figure she was talking negatively about me to others as well. Once in a while I tried defending the others, but usually not. It would be futile. I had such a store of negative crap in my head - certainly can't repeat it to those people she was talking about. I used to think gee, if all those family and friends knew what you really think, you'd be soooo alone, no one would want to be around you! But she'd put on the nicey-nice face and entertain them, then talk behind their backs. Pretty scummy.

The last time she brought up my former SIL, I swore the next time she starts on that topic I was going to tear her a new one! They had been divorced for years and she never took a dime from my brother (I suspect now I know why she left!) She also criticized my other SIL, mostly surmising what SHE thought of her. The bigger issue for me was that the first SIL passed away in the hospital after some kind of surgery years before all mom's more recent negative crap. Jeez mom, the woman is DEAD, LET IT GO!!! I didn't get the chance though. She started down the yellow brick road and hasn't mentioned her since (thankful for that at least!!!)

Some people wonder why I wouldn't even consider home care... NOPE! I am the one who handles/manages everything for her, see to her care and do the visiting, but even that is getting tedious - before the oh-she-raised-you people start: She's very hard of hearing so just trying to have a simple conversation is torturous (esp when they laundered her hearing aid and lost the replacement in about 2 weeks.) Previously I could tolerate the repetition and having to get around some of the hearing issues, but it wasn't too bad then. I got her a little LCD tablet that I can write on and hope for response (nothing if SHE doesn't want to address it.) She is pig-headed about most everything. She had some falls and refuses to stand or walk with the walker now (we had her checked, no pain, no real injury, OT/PT ordered.) When OT/PT came, she refused to even make a simple try. Told THEM to do what they wanted her to do. When I said you need to walk, she replied I DO. She does NOT. She sits in the transport chair and either waits for someone to push her around or scoots it along with her feet if no one is around to move her. I tried to give her a note to encourage walking so she won't end up in a wheelchair. She tossed it away without even reading it. NO WAY will she live in my house. I have enough to get through the day myself without having sad sack there criticizing everything, complaining about everything and demanding to be waited on hand&foot. She will NOT do something she should do if SHE makes up her mind that she isn't going to do it. I do NOT need that kind of behavior around me. She'd also be stuck in my house all the time as she cannot do stairs and the only access is a full flight (so she couldn't even get in!) If she needs help to get up, down or about in any way, I cannot support her weight either. No walk-in tub/shower. House is only half renovated, no money to get it finished, plus I have cats (she HATES pets), so it isn't a safe place for her. If she fell, she'd not only take me down, but probably crush me too!

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I do a visual of surrounding myself with a bubble of “healing white light” when I have to have an encounter with the “family narcissist”. I swear the negativity bounces off me and right back at the narcissist! It can’t hurt - right? 😉

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Thanks for the reminder! I used to practice this technique daily and fell out of the habit.

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Thank you for making me aware there is such a thing! I googled Gray Rock Technique, and it will surely help me deal with a couple of very extreme narcissists that have made me miserable for the last years. The little digs and controlling behaviors really came to light. Just reading about it made me feel stronger and in control. I hope this works well for everyone here!

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Don't give into to their wrath nor bitterness. Do not engage.

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Hell of a deal! My late wife was like that. She'd get in my face and say:
"I hate you, why don't you die, I want you dead' and such crap. I got where when she did that, I'd reach up and twist my hand like turning her off. That really blew things up. Not long later I got hearing aids and would make a show of turning them off.

The big thing about Hate is: "Hate will destroy the hater long before the hated"
I've seen that several times. I just reply: "that means I won't have to put up with you much longer" "what do you mean?" "your hate will kill you soon". Couple neighbors, wife, a girl friend, guy at work that thought i'd one upped him and never knew what I'd done he was referring to. One thing in common: They're all dead!

I bought a big old boat and when she'd get to ragging I'd just go fishing and spend the night about 60 nights a year just to get away from it all.

I'd never heard of gray rock til this.

Here's another thing many of you may not know. Wife sprayed furniture wax in my face one day after I'd asked her to wait til I got out of the room. Since then I've had bad allergy problems. She knew strong smells attacked me bad. While she was dying from cancer she got some of the most obnoxious stinking stuff in a bottle and set it around. It took my breath so bad one day I went to the allergy clinic nearby and had to go thru three full treatments before testing showed my breath was still just a third what it should be.

When I told the dr. he called and told her: "IF you put anything out with smells that bothers him again I will call the law and report you, knowing it bothers him and still do it is the same as pulling a knife or gun on someone and the court will put you where you can't do it again". Then he wrote the same thing in a letter and had it signature to addressee ONLY so she had to sign it.

Best wishes to everyone dealing with these people.

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Amazing how far some people will go to dominate you! I agree, the object is not to hate them, but to protect yourself from being emotionally destroyed if it is not possible to go no contact. :)

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Grey rock.
Uh, become boring to the narcissist?

I think I already have that covered. Lol.

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Funny how one can learn to do something and have no idea that there is a "name" for it.... My ex knew just what buttons to push to get me to argue with him. One time, while locked out of the house, he called and pushed those buttons... My 5yo was next to me and quietly said 'Why don't you just hang up?' I stopped and looked at her, and said gee, why didn't I think of that! I did. He would call back just to hang up on me (can we say childish???)

Once we were back in our house (he was not), he would still do this. So, during one call I paused for a bit to consider what to do/say next, knowing that the buttons had been pushed and I don't like arguing. It wasn't but a few seconds, but he chimed in with 'Aren't you going to answer me?', and I said no, because if I do we will get into an argument and I don't want to argue. He went into a TIRADE! So I calmly hung up and took the phone off the wall (unplugged) so that he could call back, it would ring for him, but not for me! Then I resumed what we were doing before he called.

This method does work, but it can be difficult to maintain it - it will take some determination and strength on your part. Inside you can be seething, but maintain calm on the outside, bored look, don't "rise" to the bait and watch them (sometimes) go ballistic. If he did that in front of me rather than on the phone, I might have actually laughed at him!!! It is basically a win if YOU bring them to this state. Then just hang up or walk away.

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"Inside you can be seething, but maintain calm on the outside, bored look, don't "rise" to the bait and watch them (sometimes) go ballistic. It is basically a win if YOU bring them to this state. Then just hang up or walk away."

Amen to this.

I keep in mind this very short sentence when the narcissist is in a tirade:

Insecurity is loud. Self-confidence is quiet.

So be quiet!

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A narcissist will tear you down and destroy your self esteem. I have had to deal with narcissists. As much as I try, I can't break them. They will keep coming at you, and they think they are invincible. They are mean and nasty. All you can do is not respond and get as far away from them as possible. Good luck.

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The best to you dealing with your family. Your brother sounds like he's dealing off the bottom of the deck to get what he wants from his mom and eventually you, when the time comes. So he's a former meth addict? I wonder how and why he changed.

Thanks for mentioning an unfamiliar term. After googling Gray Rock, the technique sounds effective. If someone is truly addicted to drama, I call them "drama kings" or "drama queens" because to them, harmony is boring. Everything, each situation must contain conflict, ways to demonstrate their emotional power, and many times no money is involved, it's just the satisfaction of "getting their own way," as we as kids used to put it. It's very difficult to be dispassionate, so put on your Helmet of Knowledge, Shield of Protection, and raise the Sword of Truth, ha! Best wishes.

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Interestingly, I believe his narcissistic tendencies were stronger than his addiction. My father passed away when we were in our 20's. My brother was living with my mother and began to deal drugs daily from her home. She could not get him to leave, and at one point he got so angry he had her pinned against a wall and plunged a knife into the wall next to her. She ran in her nightgown up the street. My husband and I were living about 500 miles away at the time. We received a call to learn that she had moved in with a friend. My husband flew down, went to her home to pack her bags, and flew her up to our home. We made a plan to sell our home and literally move in with her so my husband could kick my brother out and keep him out. We did just that. As time went on, he would appear in her driveway and she would roll the window down and give him money to get him away. Eventually she even bought him a house thinking it would turn his life around. Big mistake. She remarried, and had to have her new husband kick him out of that house because he was dealing drugs and always stirring up trouble with the law. We also took him into our home several times, to no avail. Anyway, after 30 years of drug abuse, one day he announced that he was going to meetings to get off drugs, but MUST have constant access to my mother in order to be successful. Of course a mother wants nothing less than a drug addicted son to become the prodigal. We were shocked when she announced she was going to divorce her husband so that my brother could have full access to her, over the phone or in person, whenever he wanted. (Her husband could NOT tolerate this association.) So eventually she bought my brother another house and told him that if he stayed off drugs she would give him her 8 unit apartment rental. (1.7M) I was happy that he was off drugs, and encouraged my mom to teach him how to do all of things a landlord must do to maintain and rent to people. Unfortunately, my mother had a fall and hit her head. She went through rehab, but the injury caused the gradual onset of dementia. He moved in with her before the dementia was significant, because his house had a burst pipe that flooded the entire home. He systematically fired her gardener and housekeeper. He told me to stop bringing her food (I was cooking her entire week's worth of organic meals) because HE was feeding her now. He is so toxic, he has no real friends, and no woman can tolerate him. Only my mother will put up with his constant manipulation and abuse. Of course, as a master manipulator, he can turn on the charm if it benefits him. He is, as you say, a Drama KIng, who has something to rant about all of the time.

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I looked up Gray Rock on youtube. Angie Atkinson has a helpful video titled Grey Rock: What It Is, How to Use It with a Narcissist. (On the youtube search, type Angie Atkinson Gray Rock.) She goes into detail, including the avoidance of eye contact with the speaker (look at his/her chin or nose or top of head, or doodle, etc.) and use dull, monotone replies that do not provoke response, such as "Uh-huh." She also explains not to let the person know you are using a "technique" as this will cause them to try to make you fail.

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Oh MY Gosh! This lady is So helpful. Thank you so very much for this resource!!! xxx

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Can you apply for guardianship, using your brother's documented personality disorders (if they are documented) as grounds for you, rather than he, being named guardian?

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Very important point. People forget about this.

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DofNPDmother, this sounds serious and extreme and Gray Rock sounds like a great approach for you and your situation - and for many on this thread. However I just want to sound a note of caution. Seven years of caregiving with my Mother swung me back to being an empath from someone who was towards the Narcissistic / Self Absorbed end of the spectrum. It was a kind of redemption - actually it moved me to being self-negating and that needed to be recovered from. I'm saying these things to be frank, as before going "Gray Rock" the people on this thread absolutely need to be sure that they are not dealing with an "empath" or empathetic person who has become a warrior for a loved one's care. I faced 5 years of denial, which I came to realize was strategic denial of Mum's Alz Dem so it would largely not affect their financial situation. But they created a story that it was about me taking advantage of my mother and perhaps being a narcissist or having a personality disorder - I have dyslexia so I'm not neuro-normal. I stayed with my Mother right through till her death, my business went bankrupt but I saw my Mother right through in such a good way that I have no regrets. There was not inheritance so it was not about money. It was just that my Brother's family could not understand why I was doing what I was doing with seemingly nothing to gain. The caregiving was its own reward and transformative. I just say to others reading this - please make sure of the persons motivation or intention before going "Gray Rock." I faced it and I had good intent and it was devastating. I certainly do not mean don't do this with toxic people. But don't be too quick to label people toxic, they might just be getting frustrated trying to communicate something that we are not listening to. This happens all too often in families dealing with the huge challenges of dementia care in a culture that has not yet learnt to support informal caregivers. My best to each of you. I mean no disrespect to the importance of finding healthy ways of dealing with toxic people on this thread.

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"The caregiving was its own reward and transformative."

This is so true, especially recognizing how transformative it can be to try to be altruistic rather than narcissistic. Thank you for this post.

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I'd never heard of the gray rock method so thanks for asking about it and to those of you who have explained it. Might even have been used on me already. I do hope it will help you deal with your brother, DofNPDmother.

We have so much to deal with as caregivers & in life in general & need to find ways to cope. This discussion made me think about when it's obvious that someone is using a learned technique on me. If I wasn't so darned angry & frustrated it almost makes me laugh sometimes. At Mom's nursing home, after usually listening politely to me complain or request something, I see the social workers' eyes go blank, they then promise to do whatever they think I want to hear, and then that's the last of it.... until I bring it up again later. Then... Listen politely, Promise, Ignore.... Repeat.

My brother is a doctor. When we were kids he often made a point of taunting & riling me up to the point of tears. As an adult he still does it occasionally, but now he knows when to shift to his Calm Doctor Voice & Demeanor, especially if anyone else is around, so it makes me seem like a raving lunatic. Will definitely try Gray Rock with him.

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Did this for years with children, but did not use the term. Humorous example...
I was tutoring the child of a celebrity who had nannies and housekeepers waiting on them hand and foot. The child took his pet rat out of the cage and attempted to scare me with it. When he got no reaction, he said his nanny always screamed when he did that. With a blank face and monotone voice I said, "I have 2 children. There's nothing you can do that woul scare me."
He put the rat away and got to work.
Thank God it was not a snake. 😜

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👍🏻 LMFAO!!!

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I was brought up to be polite, pleasant to people. Act "engaged" in their conversations.

I too had to google Gray Rock. I like it! Thank you for asking your question!!

Sometimes it's difficult to act interested - now I won't feel I have to, lol.

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Wow very interesting. Wished I had known of this years ago. Will try it! People should be using this method with the current President, IMO...

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Funny about the president, but actually might work quite well in many respects.

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Clearly there are readers who understand all the acronyms in the initial post but I felt like I was wading in alphabet soup. Thank you to those who spelled out the disorders so I can learn about them.

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Does anyone know what causes NPD?

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Although the cause of narcissistic personality disorder isn't known, some researchers think that in biologically vulnerable children, parenting styles that are overprotective or neglectful may have an impact. Genetics and neurobiology also may play a role in development of narcissistic personality disorder.
That's what Google had to say on the subject.

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Thank you so much to everyone who responded to this question! I had no idea there would be so many responses. Best wishes to all of you! ♥️

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I'd like to thank YOU for posting this question, because it led ME to Google Gray Rock Method and it's extremely helpful, in my opinion. My mother is pretty impossible to deal with and this is an excellent way to go......in fact, I'm going to look for a gray rock outside & carry it with me when I visit her as a reminder! :)

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Regardless of the dysfunction, be it dementia or a personality disorder (or both), the last thing you want to do is hand over your power by letting them get a rise out of you. It's awkward at first. Practice makes perfect. I was astonished to discover how well Gray Rock worked with an Alzheimer's mother, whom I didn't think could learn anything, but she did! I began to dodge every provocation, every nasty word by not reacting. No exclamations. No cringing. No dismay. No frowning. No nothing. Not even smiling or laughing. Just pretend you're bored, standing in line at the bank! Each reaction is a reward to them. Don't let them have it. After awhile they move on to someone else, who hopefully knows the Gray Rock method, too. Wishing success for you!

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I just read an article about Alz/dementia and how it's literally impossible for them to be manipulative.........ahem, I wonder who wrote that article? Obviously someone who's never met OUR mothers, that's for sure! I also Googled 'gray rock method' because I'd never heard of it, and learned a lot! What a GREAT IDEA for dealing with toxic people, regardless of their medical diagnosis......toxic is toxic and muscle memory is stronger than ANY dementia on earth. My mother relies on getting a rise out of me and has for SO long that it's now carved into her memory bank. I read the gray rock article to DH before we went over to visit mother yesterday in memory care. She, of course, was hell-bent on pushing all of my buttons, as usual, and DH just kept saying Gray Rock over & over again. She's almost totally deaf so she couldn't hear what he was saying, but I could!! Boy it's HARD to remain totally expressionless, isn't it? LOL. But I did my best and didn't let her get to me. Practice makes perfect, you are absolutely right! I'm glad to have this forum to learn from, and others such as yourself in the same boat, who help me tremendously.

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Does anyone have experience going Gray Rock when you can't go no contact?

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