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My father is 80 years old and his wife of 15 years has dementia and she has 5 adult children from her first marriage. My dad lived in NY state with his wife and it was getting to hard for him to manage his home. I told him that he and his wife could come live with me and my husband. We moved them here to Mass and her kids were not happy with that but they came to live with us anyway. My dad over the 4th of July was hospitalized and was not doing well and I called her kids to tell them that they needed to have a plan if something would happen to him. At this time his wife also needed to have eye surgery so her kids decided to take her back to NY. She was in NY for 18 days and in that time her son got POA and cleaned out her checking account, that has her name and my dads name on it. He then opened an account with his mother and on the day that she returned to my dad he cleaned it out. I called the bank and they said because he was POA and also on the account it was legal and nothing could be dome about it. That was July now its September my dads wife was not feeling well on Thursday afternoon and by later on she was weak and he had to help her to the bathroom, she was in the bathroom and my husband yelled to me and my dad that he heard her fall. We rushed to the bathroom and she was on the floor, she did not hurt herself but we thought she needed to go to the hospital, so we call for an ambulance. It was late and it was not life threating so I told dad not to call her kids until morning, when he did he got called by one of her sons all kids of names. On Sunday she was going to be released from the hospital and her oldest daughter called on Saturday evening and told us that she wanted all of her mother clothing ready to be picked up because SHE was going to take her mother back to NY State. On Sunday my dad and my husband went to the hospital so my father could see his wife before her daughter showed up, then they came home I went back with my father so he would have someone there to protect him from his wife's daughter. They said that they were taking her to a rehabilitation Center/ nursing home and then they were going to take her home with them when they found a larger apartment. I told them that I would meet them and they could follow me back to my home to get her things, and then I was told they were not going to pick them up. My father received a cell phone call from another daughter and was told that she would let him know where her mother was as soon as she knew. No calls came in and he started to get angry and so we started making calls to nursing homes in NY State on Monday night and we got nowhere. Then on Tuesday night I got a call from a nursing home in NY State telling me that my dad's wife was there and that I was on the list from the hospital as a contact person. The daughter who is the one who took her mother from Mass also works at the nursing home as a nurse and has told the staff that my father has to call her to let her know when he will be visiting.
So what rights does my father have now that they took her from him and they have POA and Healthcare Proxy and now that they have taken over responsibility for her Is he responsible for all of her medical expenses? She only make 439.00 a month on Social Security because did not put into SS. He is very upset and doesn't know what to do? She could very well go on State assistants which would cover all of her healthcare, but my dad has his own insurance But seeing that they took her and don't seem to care about what my dad wants is he still responsible for any of the co-pays that she will occur while they have her in the nursing home and even when she is released and living with them?

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What a horrible situation! I think you need to take this story to an Elder Law attorney.
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I think it would be illegal for the son to pull out all the money from a joint account between your father and his wife and put it into his name. And depending on what state they were married in, she could claim some of your father's income and other assets. I agree with Jinx. Without a doubt, your father needs to talk with a elder attorney to find out what rights he has and how he can protect his assets from her kids.
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Sorry...and he needs to find out if he has any rights concerning his spouse.
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Why don't you tell this to Elder Law atty? You could get free legal advice from them. They may have lied to the authorities about the situation, also. You should really dig into all this with a professional. Your dad was apparently not declared incompetent, and as such he actually had more say than the kids. Sounds kind of underhanded and wrong actions were taken on their part. You won't know completely unless you dig into it with a professional Elder law atty. You should report it to proper authorities, at least. If they have violated the law, they will be in trouble. Its good to write every fact (not emotions) in very detailed way that you need to say, so you don't forget to tell them important points that could make or break the case.
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My husband and I recently lost his mother at 92. We live in a different city/state from his mother and his brother lives where she did. Both brothers were on the account jointly with her and both had POA. Of course, POA applies to everything, not just the money. We did talk to an attorney because the brothers were not in agreement on a number of things. Once her house was sold and all assets liquidated, any one of the three had access to the accounts. In our case, bro could have cleaned out any account he saw fit to do so with. That's why it has to be carefully thought out WHO gets POA.
In our particular case, their mother was of sound mind even though her reasoning could be 'off' (wanted to treat them both equally while at times telling us how the brother bullied her, etc), so what happened with the money was basically open to whoever got it to it first.
My husband and I recently set up our own trust. We have three kids each, and have been married 12 years. He is 62 and I am 58. We both are in total agreement that out of the six, my one son is the one and only we will appoint as our POA (after each other first, and only if we could not execute on that due to disability). He is also the sole executor for us and if he is unable to do it, it will not fall to any other of our kids. Thankfully, we are on the same page and are thinking about all of this ahead of time. We love all six of our kids and we are sure someone will get their 'panties in a bunch' over our decisions but they are OUR decisions and we are making them before crisis mode. We also are not discussing anything with anyone about what we plan to leave them, etc. All we are doing is letting the one who will be in charge if something happens to us know where our bank and safety deposit box is, how to find the information to access our accounts, etc if need be/when the time comes.
I hate to say this, but when I read a lot of this stuff, it makes me realize that maybe the only thing other readers can garner from it is what to do /not do for themselves as we, the next generation, go down this road.
Best of luck. Surely, get a lawyer. But it sounds to me as if things have been done that maybe cannot be undone.
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I guess I forgot to ask the obvious. Did your dad have POA for your mother before she had dementia? If so, it would seem obvious that would override any POA one of her kids set up after she had been diagnosed. Was the account they cleaned out everything they had as far as liquid assets? Yes, again, lawyer!
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Whew! First consult an elder-care attorney in YOUR state and let him look up the law in NY. He should already be familiar with the MA laws.
He/she will tell you what rights a spouse has and what rights a POA has.
This will answer your question, however, your biggest problem is the money.
$439.00 per month is not enough for your Dad's wife, and you can be sure that her family will come knocking on your door to get some more money from your Dad , one way or another. Be aware of this, and prepare. Again, a lawyer should be able to tell you and your Dad of his financial responsiblities and his own rights. Last question: Who is the beneficiary of his life insurance? Just curious.
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I am still trying to figure out how they got POA when your dad was on the joint account as well as your step mother? That money is belonging to him too---I would raise hell at the bank that held the accounts in their joint names. It seems highly illegal to turn over control of a bank account that has a joint owner on it. Lawyer up! I hope you get some answers and keep us posted. Best of luck.
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Seems your father would've had to sign any paperwork allowing the son access to HIS money - wouldn't your father have to give permission to make it a joint account including the son??? A lawyer is obviously needed here...good luck...what a horrible situation. :(
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In North Carolina (and I'm not sure if it applies to spouse joint bank accounts), but the bank told me it was an either/or state. Meaning that either of the people on the joint account, could close the account and reopen it in just their name. ( or take everything) You certainly need a lawyer.
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JTROS accounts are set up so that anyone on the account can take money out, etc. When you add a POA for one of those joint owners, legally that person has been named to act in their stead, so in effect, it IS that person who is transacting on the account. Sorry to say this but 'the early bird...'. I worked for several years long ago in a trust department of a huge bank (personal trust) and also at a branch. You could often see the mad rush for someone to get in there and close an account before someone else did. The only way to prevent this is to require TWO signatures or more on each check or withdrawal.
On another site, I just read something that made total sense. It was in regard to POA vs spousal rights and at the second a read it the light bulb came on. "If spousal rights trumped POA then it would not be necessary for one's spouse to BECOME your POA".
The other thing that needs to be remembered is that POA goes with the deceased person, meaning POA is over and done once the person who the POA is appointed for the benefit of dies, the POA is also dead. The intention of it is to act on the person's behalf. I guess if it could be proved that the person with the POA took money and didn't use it for the mother, there could be some recourse legally (ask lawyer). But the bottom line is that when it's gone it's gone. Needless to say if there are any other accounts open they should be immediately closed and reopened in just your dad's name and perhaps he needs someone to be POA too!
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PLEASE TALK to an elder care attorney.
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To add to my dads problems, he and my husband took a trip to NY to the nursing home where his wife was put my her daughter (and where the daughter works as a nurse) and they had asked to see her. The nurse on duty told my father that she was taken to a hospital and they were told that they couldn't tell them where she was taken. My husband explained that they just drove to hours so my dad could see his wife and this was a lousy thing for her kids to be doing. The nurse said she was sorry but said that they could not give any information out, so my husband asked for a phonebook to look up the hospitals in the area. As they were leaving the nurse told my husband that they had a picture of him with a woman ( which was me) behind the desk with a note telling them not to let these people in meaning my husband and I. So they left and went to the hospital that my dad always went to and sure enough she was there and not in very good shape. My husband and dad went in to see her and sure enough the daughter with the healthcare proxy (the Nurse) showed up and got two security officers that she knew on a first name basis( because she had work there) and escorted my husband out to the waiting room and said he could not go back in leaving my dad alone in a very hostile environment. After about 15 minutes my dad came out and came home to Mass. So my dad went back to NY today and hopefully he will be OK. I did contact Legal Aid and they took some info down and they said they would get back to me after they have a meeting. As far as the checking account the bank said it was legal for the son because he had POA for his mother he could close the account as long as her name was on the account. I also asked SS about him taking her money and they also said if he has POA and he was on the account with her nothing could be done. NICE RIGHT. They are not nice people and I wish he didn't have to deal with them because they bully him and I know in my heart that is why they won't let us be with him when he goes to see his wife. Thanks for all the insight and I am going to get legal advice and keep everyone posted and hopefully no other people have to go through this.
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Your situation is just disgusting in my opinion---I am appalled that your Dad, her spouse, is being taken advantage like this. How is it that a spouse can be trumped by a child's wishes? Please , please let us know how this pans out for all of you. It is tantamount to theft to take the entire account and not consider the joint aspect ---I don't care what the banks say, even if it is legal. I wish only the best for you and your father. What rotten people your stepmother's children are!!
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You might want to call Adult Protective Services as well and let them know what has happened. Like many others have suggested you need to call an elder law attorney immediately.
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I hate to heap more bad news on top of this bad news however the attorney suggestion while on the surface seems like a good one it may do you no good.
I have been dealing with elder & nursing home medicaid attorneys for 3-4 years now & just like divorce attorneys they are not allowed to and/or will not speak to any rules in other states. Since you could only hire a lawyer in your state & the woman is in another state now & in a facility in another state you will probably be wasting your time & money at a lawyer's office. And said lawyer would be happy to help you waste your time & money since that is how they pay their mortgage at home. My suggestion would not be to a lawyer since you are dealing with separate states. It would be a better idea to find a local agency like Department of Aging & Disabled, the local Department of Health & Human Services (if they run nursing home medicaid) or even a local day senior recreation center. Please also type into Google nursing home ombudsman along with your city & state and see which agency they are out of. Call that agency with your story & get any advice from people advocating for years with these issues. If your father can be taken out in a car & sitting in an office I would be inclined to bring him to your local social security office & wait to speak to someone there about the situation regarding his legally married wife & the fact that it deals with 2 different jurisdictions & do they have any suggestions on what lawyers might be of any use in 2 different states. I have never heard of a lawyer in this field that has the right to help with the other state. However if greedy they may promise to help & take the money. You will be worse off. I would defiinitely start with agencies as they are free. They also have more experience with dealing with these matters.
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Also, if you have a rapport with your local general doctor for your dad you might try either calling the office & asking if they have a social worker or case worker type that works in their office or make an appt for dad for a different reason & while there speak to the actual md about this situation & the fact that the lawyers can't help with another state (jurisdiction) & that the concerns are saving any money for your dad's care rather than letting it go on her & her children. MDs are generally smarter than the average bear & may have a suggestion none of us have thought of to get around this. The social worker is also a good idea. They have to have had this before. Usually it doesn't involve 2 diff. states. Everything is so state based now it makes things difficult to solve. I am dealing with a state to state issue myself right now in another realm. The divorce one. Since there is comm. prop. in 2 diff. states we can't divorce in either state without liquidated 1 of the states properties first which of course is being used or delayed by the one refusing to divorce. No lawyer can help with that since there are 2 different states. Note to everyone out there if married don't purchase property (real estate) in a 2nd state or due to either divorce, separation or elderly parent issues you will have trouble in the future where lawyers can't help.
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Come to think of it, why not google & call the same agencies in the state & local area she is actually housed in. Call yours first & get some advice. Then Google & call the local area she is in. Google the nursing home she is in. Then Google nursing home ombudsman i.e. Lansing, Michigan nursing home ombudsman. Call the agency that is out of in that area. Tell them about your father - the husband & the situation. See what advice they have to protect the married assets so your dad doesn't become penniless & unable to be cared for. Your biggest problem right now is if she goes on nursing home medicaid, medicaid will come after the home & car they owned as married unless you are careful about the process protecting his interests. Due to that I am not sure those children will be successful at applying for her benefits without your dad signing something. Since this will affect comm. prop. I doubt they can get far without his signature. Anyway, call the agencies in your area & get advice telling them a lawyer can't help since it is out of state. Then call any agencies that have to do with her facility & that town, state or county she's in & tell your story. The ombudsman is supposed to help the patient not their family. That may be your helper. One more suggestion is to find out who the corporation is that owns the facility. Most are chains. Call the corporate office business/finance department & tell your story & your concerns. You should at least be able to ascertain what is paying for her stay right now. As her husband's daughter I would think you could call the nursing home business office and ascertain if she is on medicaid or not. Then you can call a medicaid lawyer in your town and see if they can help at all. Still the agencies are better. Remember social security & medicare are federal (therefore not state based), your dad couldn't cut her off from benefits but one thing might be possible & you will hate this but to protect dad's assets/income you might want to consider a divorce for them. Again the 2 states are an issue but if they are doing this, they will only have access to her ss income & not the married assets if you involve a divorce att. but then they are expensive too. I don't know what prop they have but if dad is staying out of the facilities it wouldn't be a bad idea to divorce so that medicaid can only seize what she's got at her death rather than seizing his home after his because of her or something.
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This son can't just take money out of a checking account without cause. Also, since your father's name is on the account, he also has rights which this son does not have over your father's money. Get an attorney immediately - criminal charges may have to be filed against this person for stealing but act immediately, like RIGHT NOW.
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my mother is living with my sister she is in stage 4 cancer I use to be her poa over medical but hospice has informed me that my sister is now and she told hospice not to give me any information about her. my mother is still married but her husband lives in NY, I have asked hospice if they could at least contact me or her husband to tell us when she passes away. Hospice told me it is against Hipaa law to inform us of her passing??? Is this true as it becomes public record when she passes??? also as she is still married does the husband have any rights??
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We were both married before and the wife has this daughter by previous marriage . She now has power of attorney over my wife. DO I have any more power to anything regarding my wife as we are still legally married?
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My husband and I are a remarried/blended family with three grown kids each, all with spouses and/or children. There are a LOT of personalities here and it is NOT the Brady Bunch. Now, as for the above situation and the question about what to do now that basically the horse has left the barn, the short answer is YOU NEED A LAWYER. Right now.
Because we are realists and knew that were anything to happen to either of us there would be so much infighting and acrimony, we had an estate planning attorney draw up a trust along with all the necessary POA, DPOA, living will, etc. papers to avoid such a situation as the one you describe. Every state is different, every family is different but one thing is for sure. Remarriage with adult children is not for the faint of heart.
A spouse can and most likely should be named one's POA with a 'default' or fall back POA named should that person be unable to serve in that capacity. As for who that should be, one should choose that person with eyes wide open and without emotion. And I believe almost any lawyer would say, do NOT name co-POA's.
My mother in law did that and it was a disaster that has divided two siblings forever. Brother in law (husband's brother) never saved for his retirement by his own admission and has been an impulsive spender all of this life. His oldest child is his wife's from her first marriage, whom he adopted at a young age. Then they had two more. This BIL has always been very jealous of my successful, saving and planning husband, with his only bragging rights being that he has never been divorced and my husband has. When we got married 12 years ago (we met and fell in love 30 years ago but went our separate ways due to having six young kids who we felt would have a hard time with our blended situation) we had very strong emotional ties to each other's children, because our love for them was what made us put our own relationship on what we thought then was permanent hold. When my husband looked me up and we married 17 years after walking away (BIL knew about that), BIL was unglued with jealousy and has never been nice to me. Now he doesn't have the corner on being the one with the 'stable' marriage as we are so happy together. He has been a lynchpin in making sure he did everything in his power to say bad things about me and put as much trouble between my stepchildren and me as possible as well as badmouthing their dad, my husband. All of this has been in the midst of two brothers who were co-POA everything, with differing opinions on how to best care for their aging parents. BIL held the POA thing over his mother's head the minute their dad passed away in 2006, threatening her to 'put her' into assisted living and ridiculing and demeaning her often. My husband would get the upset calls (we live away and he lives in her small town) from his mother about what BIL did, this or that, and he would flat ask her if she wanted him to do something about it. We both thought she should have the best care, move closer to us so we could take care of her in a warmer climate and a larger town with more resources, etc. When BIL would find out he would bully his mom by not visiting her or being cold to her to get her to fall back in line and she always did. My husband felt so responsible for his mother but she would always back down and after venting, tell my husband to not do anything. So we'd be left with a knot in our stomachs about the really crappy place she eventually ended up in. My husband could have taken this whole thing to court and blown it up but all his mother would keep saying is that she wanted 'you boys to just get along' (these boys were in their 50's and 60's when this was all taking place). I could go on and on but you get the picture. BIL is very devious and painted us in such a bad light we could feel family judgement on us from the kids, who already were prepared to not like me anyway. So much back stabbing and manipulation.
So. When we did our estate planning, we chose one person, THE one, who happens to be my offspring, to be POA, executor, all of it for us. We know each marital relationship, as well as personal traits, and trust this one above all others. Knowing too that he is a saver, his wife is also, they have a very strong and loving marriage and the same values we do and that he is strong enough to take the inevitable onslaught were all important to us. We do not have a prenup. We have loved each other for what seems forever and this is for each of us, really, our 'first' real marriage. But of course the kids will not see it that way. His kids I am sure will come unglued. But these are our wishes and our money and our lives. We are primarily each other's POA. There will be no joint checking or savings accounts with any of our kids as my MIL had with both sons (although my husband never saw though he often requested an accounting and offered always to take care of her bill paying and reconciliations BIL wanted to be sketchy and keep control). If we are incapacitated and cannot act as each other's POA the accounts used for our care will be 'trustee for' and require an accounting of spending.
Sometimes there isn't anything that can be undone once things have taken place. As I said, YOU NEED A LAWYER right now. But for those reading this, put your own houses in order. This site seems as important for learning that as it is to try to sort our the messes that are already made. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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I am wondering if, when you moved both parent and step parent near you, did you at any time bring up making yourself POA for them? I guess I assume not, because if so, this would have been prevented. Did you dad or stepmother ever have POA for each other? If her kids' influencing her to make them POA when she has dementia IF she already had POA put into place while she was of her right mind, I would think it wouldn't pass the smell test legally.
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lacba/Files/LAL/Vol30No8/2425.pdf

If you cannot open this, copy and paste it into your browser. It seems like it is very helpful and would answer a lot of questions.
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There must have been a reason why the donor gave POA to her son. One does not "get POA". It is a serious document that has to be given...paperwork involved, witnesses, etc. and only ceases with the death of the donor, unless specifically revoked. Sounds like your father needs legal counsel.
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I think that in my case that my mother picked me as her POA because she figured she would be in better care with me than with my step-dad. She was right. I gave him the chance to take care of her with the help of his care giver and they about killed her

I was my dad's POA, but he changed that to my step-sister because I live so far away and had my hands full with my mother. My step-sister was also her mom's POA.
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hello, my dad became very ill some weeks ago and to cut a long story short he has an aggressive cancerous brain tumour and has been given 12 months to live, if he has radiotherapy. he lives with his spouse, although they are not married. myself and my other brother and also sister are not happy at all the way he is being looked after by his spouse and do not trust her. my dad is not in a fit mental state to make decisions. could you please tell me, in brief, what rights do me and his other 2 children have in regards to his care?
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Yikes, unbelievable situation....Please post your outcome! Gooood luck!
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My husband has adult children and has made son POA. His will divides estate equally between children and me. The bulk of our estate is in his separate accounts except for real estate and physical assets. How do I protect my marital rights?
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I'm not sure what protection you are in need of since the will divides everything equally.

Now, I believe that his funeral, bills and personal debt like on a credit card will need to be paid by the executor of the estate before money gets handed out. Normally, that would involve the bank moving his money into the estate of _____ account. That would not be needed and money would be freed up to use after his death, if the accounts were in both names for that gives you the right of survivorship which I experienced with my mother's personal accounts, etc.

Who is the executor of the estate? My mom made me both POAs instead of my step-dad. She would have died much sooner if he had been in charge as bad a shape as he was in.

I hope this helps and I hope the son who is the POA is honest and responsible. Most are, but a few bad apples are around.
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