Daughters of narcissistic mothers. What are the effects?

mywitsend-please please get her out and now-she is toxic and there will be a next time. My NM thinks that saying she is sorry-acts like nothing happened-trys to give blood money-makes everything okay but there is always a next time. And when there is a next time and you remind her about her actions the last time? she all of sudden has dementia. These people have all the tricks in the book. Good luck and hang in there

playagrandma ~ Whoa you are so right. Narcissium (sp) cannont be cured. They are who they are. Mean and nasty and oh so selfish. The whole world evolves around them. Mom has played so many tricks on all us forever that everyone in the family has left and will not have anything to do with her. Only my son and his wife still visit her. She was born that way. She had 3 younger sister's who have since passed away. All 3 of them were gracious, sweet, kind and loving. Mom was the oldest and demanded it all. She was the only one growing up who had her own bedroom and a new bedroom set. The other's slept in one bed together. She is 85 and mean and nasty. When I moved out I couldn't get all my things including my clothes. Today I am trying to figure out how to get them. She will not allow me to take anything from the house even though I lived there and cared for her 21 year'. My son went over there last week to pick up my air purifier. The caregiver who happens to mine also, told me mom went down to my room to inspect and see what my son had taken. She watches everything with a Hawks eye. Even through her Dementia. Go figure

freedom, as I mentioned in my "hug" to you, we could have grown up in the same home. Occasionally, though, people outside our home became my mother's victims. She simply adored making people jump through hoops for her, even if the target behavior was the opposite of what she found "acceptable". For example, my mother prided herself on being a teetotaler, but when she invited our minister for dinner, she insisted on serving wine when she knew he abstained. She nagged, cajoled and mocked him (even Jesus drank wine) until he, uncomfortably, caved and had a small glass.
A boyfriend of my sister refused to drink because his father had been an alcoholic. We were all wondering why my mother was in such a good mood the evening she prepared her specialty, chicken paprikash for sis's boyfriend. It wasn't until dessert was being served that she revealed that she put wine in the dish (never had been before!) and she gleefully watched him squirm at the news. The woman is pure evil.
On the other hand, my mother adores anyone who serves her. When we had to admit mom to a rehabilitation facility after her hip replacement, the staff was just gushing over how lovely and sweet she was. "Bless her heart," they would say as my sister and I just exchanged knowing glances as we new she couldn't keep up her charade indefinitely. Sure enough, after three days she'd call the front desk and shriek at the receptionist, refuse to do the physical therapy, called the nurses constantly to do things like change the channel on her TV because she couldn't figure it out. The staff was shocked, but my sister and I were relieved that for the first time, someone else was finally witness to her abusive behavior.

You betcha, midwest, this can consume you. I choose not to let it. I don't suppress the thoughts but don't dwell either. It happened and nothing I can do to change it. I just make a concerted effort to not be like mom. I feel resentment that mom could be so loving and kind to my sister and treat me so crappy. But I don't blame my sister and would never trade lives with her. She's far worse off than I am. She's in desparate need of a spine implant. At least I can face life and tackle what needs attention...she can't. We had "different" mothering and each came out with problems.
While I was caring for mom, I was married to a narcissist, albeit and "nice" one. That marriage didn't survive unfortunately. Two yrs ago, my high school sweetheart contacted me, and we're fixin to celebrate one yr of marriage. I finally "got it right". He supports me, encourages me and loves me, flaws and all. And my mom always said no man would want a dumb, unattractive,mentally ill excuse of a person that I was...well she was wrong! I've decorated the house with momentos from our parents,but none from mom because it's too painful. I'm surrounded with happy memories and enjoy life with the love of my life. I worked hard at self improvement and overcoming obstacles and the time was right for me to feel I deserved happiness. I kinda feel sorry for mom now. She was so busy being mean, she missed out on a whole lot of good stuff. Nope, I don't want to be like her. So in a kind of quirky way, she did me a favor. From it all, I have the ability to get through life without consciously hurting others. I feel blessed and sorta proud that I never let her break me. It's the little things, I guess!

playagrandma,catgrace,flameworker--- Ohhh you guys are so right. The drama that plays out with these mothers is unbelievable and yet we all now can see that we are not alone. I knew we weren't, but isn't it great to converse with each other on this blog and see that we all have something in common. The question then becomes how to handle it.
My saga is at a point right now that it's been six days since she left and granted the distance is what makes it great for me and yet I know her tentacles, (the phone) can reach across the country. So what to do? I decided to keep my distance even more, by limiting communication. I already told her Doctor to call me if there was something important I should know and I reiterated "important". But guess what Folks, last night I was on Skype with my son and the phone rang. It was about 11 pm. I looked at the phone and what shows "Mom," I let it ring and go in to voice mail. Did not call her. I know why she is calling me. She had the mail redirected back to her home and wanted to talk about the mail that is coming. It's not an emergency. This morning I decided to call her, but I chose a time I knew she was still sleeping or still groggy. My mother is an night owl. She wakes up late and takes numeral naps during the day and then stays up til 2-3 am.
Sure enough when I called this morning her answering machine came on, which I was hoping it would and I left a voice message that her mail has been sent out. For the first time, I did not address the voice mail with "Hi Mom" I simply went in to my message and hung up. I noticed during the week I have a hard time mentioning the word "Mom" that's to endearing. I can't say Mother ether, that gives her to much authority. I have noticed that I have been cauterized. My warm and fuzzy feelings that I had left for her are slowly disappearing.
Mind you when I was listening to her voice message, her voice sounded so endearing and sweet. Her request was so gentle and kind. I just shook my head and thought to myself, what a camel-ion. Can change in a heart beat. And I think that is what draws us back each time, we are hoping to hear more of that kind, gentle soul. Not happening. I know better.
So, after I hung up. I thought to myself. You did good. Keep her at an arms distance and limit your communication. Don't be angry, do not retaliate. Do not get yourself all in a tither. Simply live in piece within yourself.
I know my mother doesn't get herself all together until late afternoon and she will get the voice message. Technically that's all she needs to know, but she will try to worm herself back in to my life as if nothing happen. But it did. My eyes are more open then ever and I will not allow her to manipulate me.
Thank God I have people who know how my mother is and yet these same people never say anything to her about her behavior. I wonder why that is. My aunt for instance, her youngest sister, knows how she is and sometimes they get in to it too, handles it by not calling her, which my mother interprets it that my aunt is cheap and does not want to call because she watches the dollar. My aunt on the other hand told me the reason she does'n t call her sister (My Mother) is because my mother is mean and argumentative. And my aunt said she knows that her sister thinks it's because of money, which is a lie, my aunt simply find her sister nasty. Well, welcome to my world, I told my aunt! I have asked my aunt why she doesn't call her on her bad behavior and my aunt said: It's not worth it. She has so many other things going on in her life and my mother would only occupy to much space. Further more, my aunt stated that it does not matter what anyone thinks, my mother will always think that she is right and everyone else is stupid. So what is the point in arguing with someone who is so set in their ways.
I have to pay more attention to my aunt, she has the right idea. Limit communication.
Let's see what the day will bring. Will she call me? I hope not. What do you guys think?

playagrandma,catgrace,flameworker--- Ohhh you guys are so right. The drama that plays out with these mothers is unbelievable and yet we all now can see that we are not alone. I knew we weren't, but isn't it great to converse with each other on this blog and see that we all have something in common. The question then becomes how to handle it.
My saga is at a point right now that it's been six days since she left and granted the distance is what makes it great for me and yet I know her tentacles, (the phone) can reach across the country. So what to do? I decided to keep my distance even more, by limiting communication. I already told her Doctor to call me if there was something important I should know and I reiterated "important". But guess what Folks, last night I was on Skype with my son and the phone rang. It was about 11 pm. I looked at the phone and what shows "Mom," I let it ring and go in to voice mail. Did not call her. I know why she is calling me. She had the mail redirected back to her home and wanted to talk about the mail that is coming. It's not an emergency. This morning I decided to call her, but I chose a time I knew she was still sleeping or still groggy. My mother is an night owl. She wakes up late and takes numeral naps during the day and then stays up til 2-3 am.
Sure enough when I called this morning her answering machine came on, which I was hoping it would and I left a voice message that her mail has been sent out. For the first time, I did not address the voice mail with "Hi Mom" I simply went in to my message and hung up. I noticed during the week I have a hard time mentioning the word "Mom" that's to endearing. I can't say Mother ether, that gives her to much authority. I have noticed that I have been cauterized. My warm and fuzzy feelings that I had left for her are slowly disappearing.
Mind you when I was listening to her voice message, her voice sounded so endearing and sweet. Her request was so gentle and kind. I just shook my head and thought to myself, what a camel-ion. Can change in a heart beat. And I think that is what draws us back each time, we are hoping to hear more of that kind, gentle soul. Not happening. I know better.
So, after I hung up. I thought to myself. You did good. Keep her at an arms distance and limit your communication. Don't be angry, do not retaliate. Do not get yourself all in a tither. Simply live in piece within yourself.
I know my mother doesn't get herself all together until late afternoon and she will get the voice message. Technically that's all she needs to know, but she will try to worm herself back in to my life as if nothing happen. But it did. My eyes are more open then ever and I will not allow her to manipulate me.
Thank God I have people who know how my mother is and yet these same people never say anything to her about her behavior. I wonder why that is. My aunt for instance, her youngest sister, knows how she is and sometimes they get in to it too, handles it by not calling her, which my mother interprets it that my aunt is cheap and does not want to call because she watches the dollar. My aunt on the other hand told me the reason she does'n t call her sister (My Mother) is because my mother is mean and argumentative. And my aunt said she knows that her sister thinks it's because of money, which is a lie, my aunt simply find her sister nasty. Well, welcome to my world, I told my aunt! I have asked my aunt why she doesn't call her on her bad behavior and my aunt said: It's not worth it. She has so many other things going on in her life and my mother would only occupy to much space. Further more, my aunt stated that it does not matter what anyone thinks, my mother will always think that she is right and everyone else is stupid. So what is the point in arguing with someone who is so set in their ways.
I have to pay more attention to my aunt, she has the right idea. Limit communication.
Let's see what the day will bring. Will she call me? I hope not. What do you guys think?

Alwaysmyduty- How fantastic that you found your first love. That made me think of my first love, how my mother destroyed mine. I almost married him and we were nuts about each other, but my mother made sure I was not going to be with him. 35 years later he found me and we met. You see we moved and he went to Viet Nam, when he returned he could not find me. He looked for me over 5 years and then one day he ran in to my mother and asked about me and she told him I wanted nothing to do with him, which was a lie. I never knew she saw him and he asked about me. Years later he found out were I worked and called me. I will not go in to this story what happen, but we met after a flurry of phone calls. When he called me the first time, he asked me if I knew who this was, I hesitated listen and said: "Where you been?"
Anyway, let's just say for now my NM had a lot to do with my love interests. She has destroyed many opportunities for me and today one of my dearest guy friends said: Your mother is jealous of you, she wants you to fail and she hates you. She wants you mostly to fail, so you crawl back to her. She wants to control every aspect of your life. He was blunt and said it like it is.
I'm so thrilled for you that you found happiness. Yeahhhhh!!!!!

Playagrandma, you are right. I have known that, but the non-confrontational part of me didn't want to face it. With her continued treatment of our son, I need to step up for his sake. I got on this board because of MIL, but these threads have helped me come to terms with my own mother's issues. She died a few years ago, but the impact of growing up a narcissist never goes away, really. There are definately things I need to work on. One thing though, I have little tolerance of this behavior in others. MIL is not my mother, so she does not have her hooks in me. Her tricks don't work because I don't care what she thinks. My husband has a harder time. I need to figure out how I can help him get there. He knows she needs to go, but getting her out is another issue. It sounds horrible, but I feel like a rabid animal has built a nest in our house, and I can't get it out. Actually, she does resemble a hissing possum on occasion :).

Thanks midwest. Yes, mom played a big role in our first breakup. She was thrilled when we broke up and doubt she'd be pleased we're back together. We jumped at this second chance because we knew it was a blessing to get it. Your guy friend is right, you're mom is jealous, hates you and wants you to fail. That exactly describes my mom. She was so jealous of my relationship with my son and daughter that she constantly badmouthed me. They got mad and told her to stop and avoided her as much as possible. I felt so bad for them. I had wonderful grandmas and I wished they'd had that with mom. Did your mom ever call back? Good for you in distancing yourself. Easier on your nerves I'm sure. I also agree that it's helpful for all of us to discuss our narcissistic moms. I spent a lifetime thinking I was the only one with a mean mom.
MyWitsEnd, that's hilarious about the rabid animal thought! I sure hope you can get that her "trapped and released" elsewhere. She doesn't need to be with y'all if she can't behave.

It's getting funnier by the minute......hissing possum. LOL

AlwaysMyDuty- Yes Mom called again. I let it go to voice mail. I was on the phone with my cousin when she called. I listen to her message and she moaned a groaned about her mail being redirected. Basically it's not an emergency. She also said that I was not calling her back, I only leave voice messages, there for she will call me at work. Yikes! She never called me at work, I always told her, unless it's an emergency do not call me at work.
She is worming herself back in. Now what? I really don't want to talk to her. There is nothing to talk about. I need distance. She sounds so normal. WHAT?
Hey ya all, what is the solution? Help!

I have a question. Were any of your parents "both" narcissistic? Mine were. Dad was far worse than mom. They enabled each other. He was verbally abusive and emotionally abusive. When he died, I didn't care. That was my first light bulb moment.

I can find many books about narcissistic mothers. And mine is very narcissistic. However, I can't find many books about narcissistic fathers. Dad was just awful, very abusive. Even my golden child brother and mother admit he was, however, mom doesn't want me to talk about it now that he is dead, of course. And forget that she let it go on and never defended me.

I know how mother's affect their daughters but what does a narcissistic father do? I know I should be completely bonkers with my parents but I am not. Not perfect and have damage but I am realizing waht alot of the damage is and have been very lucky in my relationships.

Would love to hear from those with narcissistic fathers too.

My Father was not. In fact my Father was very loving towards me and perhaps that is why I always had long term relationships with men. But I must admit in in hind site, some of my behavior was not loving towards my ex-husband, but he always assured me, that he understood me. Thank God I did not marry a Narcissist. He in fact protected me during our marriage from my mother. She hated him and then again my mother had no use for men, unless they did her bidding.

Although I have read that males are more narcissistic then females. Help me out folks, are they?

My father was not either. He was wonderful, loving, nurturing. He loved mom and I always thought they had a great relationship. His sister, though, has eluded in our conversations that wasn't the case. If pressed,I know she'd spill the beans, but I consider their talks confidential so I'll never ask and what good would it do anyway.
I've been married more times than I like to admit and each one was a narcissist, some worse than others. Looking back, I see why I married them and that those relationships were always doomed from the start. I stayed married a long time to each because I couldn't admit defeat. I said in an earlier post that I finally got it right with my current husband and it's due to recognizing the mistakes I made and learning from them. Let me tell you, it's not a good life to have a narcissist mom and a narcissist husband at the same time. I spent a good part of my life being miserable. That's why I'm so thankful for my husband and I never take our marriage for granted.
I can't imagine what a nightmare you endured madge1 with your parents. I'm sad for you. I don't even want to think what my life would've been without my dad. I had him for 46 fantastic years. When he died, I had a nervous breakdown. It was the saddest day of my life. The next day my mom turned on me like a pitbull. She knew I no longer had my protector or the person I loved more than my own life. It brings me to tears just thinking about it. I couldn't understand how a parent could be so cruel and hateful and so jealous about her own flesh and blood. I don't understand how a parent can hate one child and adore the other. I'm a mom, I understand loving your kids for the people they are...I just don't get it.

AlwaysMyDuty, you are so lucky to have had your Dad. One thing I will say, by having a narcissistic, bullying dad, I looked for a gentle, kind, thoughtful man. A man who never gets into arguments or shouting matches. There are things about my husband of 30 years that I did not recognize. He is very cheap and tight fisted, just like mom and dad. That has been a challenge. Sometimes he is very passive agressive, I can deal with that. Dad taught me how not to behave. How talking down to people gets you nowhere. I looked up to men I worked with. I worked at a large engineering company for many years and when I did something "like dad", they would tell me. And I changed. I learned that when you lose control, you are not in control.

Yes, it was hard. Dad had some real "issues". My brother, mom and my dad's brother all have acknowledge this. Dad's only sister didn't even come to his funeral nor call my mom. I asked mom why and she said, "Oh, your aunt always hated him." Hmmmmm, I wonder why.

I think the biggest disappointment to me is recognizing my mother's part and her narcissism. My brother says she is much worse than dad. Not so, just different. They enabled each other and complimented each other. She let Dad verbally abuse her daughter and he gave her all of his money, which she saved, and she never had to work.

The more you read about this disorder, the better you life will be. you will understand it was "them" not you. Then you can fix some of the damage that has been done to you.

Sometimes we pick spouses that are so like our parents, because that is what we know and have grown up to believe to be normal. As sic as it is that is what we think we deserve. I on the other hand always believed I deserved a good man and I saw that in my ex-husband. Sometimes I think about the reason I divorced him and I have to wonder whether my expectations were tarnished by my mothers sneaky manipulation. I'm rethinking all the sequences. I was married for 33 years.
My Dad died 15 years ago and he liked my ex-husband. I think my Dad would have been a great shoulder to lean on while I was going through my Divorce 10 years ago, which was the toughest time in my life. I did not share to much with my mother, due to the fact she was very joyful that I was getting a divorce. She thought I was going to live with her. WRONG! Never.
Yes, I had a great Dad, he made sure I knew I was loved. He called me every day until he died and told me he loved me,
I also have life long friends who have been loyal to me. One of those friends is a high school girlfriend and she always remembers one particular behavior about my mother, Nancy always said: "I never knew if your mother was in a good mood or not!" There you go folks, so many tell tale signs years ago and I always made excuses for that mean woman, because I thought she had such a bad life as a single parent. Boy did she let me know what a burden I was. Til today. But guess what guys, I do not feel it's my fault. I'm actually a very adjusted person. I just have this mental vampire of a mother, that's all. Other that, Life is good! :)

midwest, I can't imagine being married 33 yrs and getting a divorce. I can see how it was the toughest time in your life. Then to have your mother joyful over it, wow, that's just terrible.
I admire you for believing you deserved the best and for going for it, keeping loyal friends and finally realizing the truth about your mom. I wish I could've had that feeling I deserved more, sooner rather than later. I'm thankful I reached that point but my life would've been so much happier if it hadn't been ingrained in me from toddlerhood that I didn't nor ever would deserve the best. You're right, I chose what I knew. I always thought I was looking for a good man like my dad but I was really looking for someone in mom's image. I get mad at myself for not being smart or snapping to about the clinical aspects of mom's condition, heck I wish I'd even known what the condition was in the first place. Then I move on and give thanks that I finally wised up and saw the truth.
I re-read emjo's list for narcissistic traits just to see if I had any of them. Whew, I think I'm in the clear! Not to say I don't have emotional problems but most of that is due to depression, which I'm convinced is inherited (too many cousins with it). The reason I checked was remembering when my daughter got mad at me a few times and told me "mom, it's not always about you". Little kids don't understand that at times what may seem selfish is actually a survival tactic, i.e. divorcing her step father because he threatened to kill me but she thought I was just making her move.
I do not even remotely blame mom for all of my woes. She built my foundation which has threatened many times to crumble but I finished the job and the final result is mine. I wish I knew what caused mom to be a narcissist. She hated her mom. I never saw anything wrong with my grandma, I loved her very much but then she didn't raise me. Could there ever have been anything amiss between my grandma and her mom, that I'll never know. Hey I could come from a long line of narcissists! I do know, like all of you, that it's not going to continue with me.

AlwaysMyDuty- Yes, the one thing I wished I was informed about sooner is the condition of what my mother really had. Narcissism to the fullest. We all have a little in us, but what we are seeing on this site is much more. I call them the mental vampires.
I read up a little about how does one get Narcissism to a point what we all are going through. Well, I read that it starts around 18 months old. If a child does not get the kind of nurturing from the mother, because the mother is the key person that a child sees, feels and observes. It can be a father too, it all depends who is taking charge at that time and who is with the child the most. But some how from 18 months if a child doesn't get the right attention, it becomes a seeker of attention, no matter what it takes. I child is uncivilized and it has to be taught right from wrong. Some people are just not meant to be parents, just because they have a vagina and testicles. Being a parent takes wisdom and most of us do not have a degree in parenthood. It's a one shot deal. Most who become a parent do it by their seat of their pants. And then there are some who do a fantastic job of raising a human being to be well rounded, but is only if they are all together. We all learn from experience and sometimes those people who are Narcissistic did not get the right start. But let's not excuse their behavior, because that's what this is, A Behavior. Bad behavior. And it's said that a Narcissist can modify, if they so choose. The key word is IF. But if they choose to say: I am who I am and take it or leave it, you know what you should do. Unfortunately, we all learn to late and sometimes decades go by when we finally learn, that these mental vampires are not going to change.
I too should have moved on a long time ago. But like all of us, we HOPE, for the NORMAL.

Thanks, midwest, for the insight. Even if my grandma didn't provide love, and that's hard for me to imagine, my mother had to know in her heart of hearts what she was doing wasn't right. Or else why did she present one side of herself to the world and another to her family, mainly me? She was never diagnosed but my kids and I truly believe she had dual personalities, among other things. Anyway, her behavior wasn't acceptable. I don't think she was unable to recognize, she just chose to say "this is me and I don't need to change". For whatever reason, she never liked me, I knew it as young as 4 yrs old, and she didn't like me the day she died. She disowned me for crying out loud. I kept hoping she was just angry and after a cooling off period, she'd call, write or send a smoke signal but she was done with me, period, end of story. I've had some serious disagreements with my kids, but we after we cooled off, sometimes it took a few months, but we worked it out.
You mentioned more men than women are narcissists. From my experience, I'd say that's true but none of them, were anywhere near as mean as my mother. They were wrapped up in themselves but they weren't hateful.
I like the mental vampire description! Think I'll borrow it, if you don't mind.

Update: May, 2013
It's been a few months and all quiet at the front. Mommy Dearest tries calling me, but I ignore her calls. I hate doing it because I have a need to be connected to my Family, but I might as well say: "What Family?" A Family that hurts you is not needed in ones life. Mothers Day came and she called me 2 times, I did not respond. I'm not ready to talk to her. I have never been like this, I'm totally cauterized. I have to protect myself emotionally. I can't afford to be sucked in to her web and then when I have shared my life, she attacks when she is ready to pounce on me. Nope, not doing it. And yet did I say I hate it. Yep, I do because I'm social and this is so out of my character to reject a person. It's almost as if I enjoy punishing her and perhaps I am, because Lord only knows she hurt me badly.
I'm sure the phone is going to ring sometime next week and it's almost as if I'm anticipating the dreadful call, because I have to decide whether to pick it up or not. While this moment is coming, I'm mentally occupied. When will I be free?!?
I have read all your comments and it is amazing how many of us have suffered by these mean mothers.
I hope all you who read these treads that you can take away one thing and that is that you are not alone and there is a whole slew of people who go thru this nightmare of NM. To all of you, keep in mind, while you are wrestling with the EV, if it doesn't make any sense what they (Emotional Vampires) say about you........then it's not true.
It's beautiful in California........ :) And I bought myself a car. :) Yeah!

So, Midwest, how did you get your mom not to call you at work? I was able to do that with father for years. But now that he's going down the dementia lane fast, he's been giving people my work phone. I came home so angry and chewed him out. Unfortunately, I could see he had this puzzled look in his face. It didn't register. So, now, every person who calls for me at home,he will give them my work number - no privacy in an office that's the size of my father's livingroom! But...I'm curious how you got your mom not to call you at work.

I think my father is a narcissis. As I read all your posts, it sounds like him. We grew up with No Thoughts of our own. It was Always HIS way - no ifs ands or buts. Mom kept us outside the house or inside the bedroom so that us 12 kids (7 siblings and 4 cousins) so that we don't mess the spic-and-span house before father came home from work. We have had our famous yelling matches for years. I'm currently trying alternate ways of dealing with him because my cholesterol is shooting high (nope - not from food - but from STRESS.) Thanks. I was able to take some notes on this thread.

After reading through this, and doing a bit more research, I'm willing to say that my ma was definitely narcissistic. I was the one responsible for her emotional well-being from toddler age on. My earliest memory of her is of her cutting her hand while doing dishes (it was a deep cut, and bled a lot. she got stitches when dad came home and took her to hosp) and she laid on the couch crying. I went into the kitchen, cleaned up the blood, because Ma was a neat freak then, and proceeded to do the dishes to make her feel better. I think I was three or four. Bleeding and in pain or not, I, as a mom myself, would never have allowed my young child into the kitchen to clean the blood and glass. I would have hugged my child, explained what happened, and that daddy would be home soon to help mommy. A hug would have been a better way to allow the child power over Mom's pain. She didn't even know I was there, I think. Parentalizing the child is what it's called, I believe. I was the one who talked to her about both her divorces, and gave her advice... age 7 and 18. I was told by my first therapist when I was about 13 to stop mothering my mother. that helped a lot. (sarcasm anyone?) Then I stopped going, can't remember why.

The other side of the coin was her ignoring my needs completely. I embarrassed her mostly. I wasn't pretty. I was chubby. I wore glasses. I hated dresses and wanted to be a boy for most of my childhood. She wanted a cute little daughter to dress up and show off. I was also a very, very angry kid. I still am, to some degree.

So basically, it hurt, because my needs were not important, I was shamed by her, and I had the worst self-image of any child. I became extremely co-dependent.

My little brother suffered the same as I did. He got more attention because he was the 'bad kid', and learned to be as narcissistic as she was. He and I have a not so good relationship, although we're civil.

Mom ignored me as an adult for years, until Gram died and Mom had no one with her. she went a little nuts, so I moved her closer to me. Then, because I couldn't take care of both her house and mine, I moved her into a nursing home. The behavior was exaggerated by this time, and I went crazy trying to be her mom, her mentor, her only friend, and still take care of my invalid hubby, and the rest of a large household. Co-dependency is no joke.

I see now the mistakes I made with my kids, and why things are the way they are. Why I'm a doormat. Why the world seems to be so negative to me. I need to address this, and help my kids understand the issue so they can also address it and end the cycle.

The thing is, I need to explore some more and figure out what is natural and good selfish kinds of behavior, and what is destructive. I need to figure out what boundaries to set and where it's okay to help others and ask for help, myself.

LisaT, I am sorry for you and understand your situation. You sound as if you are on the right track. Good luck to you.

bookluvr- Calling me at work was never an option for my mother. I told her never to call me at work unless she is in the Hospital or some other kind of Emergency. And the few times she called I handled it very business like by simply stating "Hello, may I help you?" her answer was on the other line: "you didn't answer your cell phone" I reply: " I'm with a client now, I will call you back, thank you, Goodbye."
She did that only couple times and never again. And the times that she did call me at work I responded by telling her that she may NOT call me at work, unless it's an Emergency and then I explained to her what an Emergency was in my book.This is not to say that she will not try again in the future, but I think she knows that I don't engage in any kind of conversation, nor do I call her. This is so sad because normally I would drop anything I was doing and respond to a call because I have the kind of job that allows me to receive personal calls, but my mother doesn't know I have a choide, she only knows that I am in an office and I deal with clients.
So, if I were you I would call everyone that calls you and tell them not to call you, unless there is an Emergency and the big question is, what is an Emergency, well, 1-your Father is in the Hospital
2-your Father is dead
3-the house is on fire
4-give all the reason that you feel that could have waited.
Tell everyone that you are working and you do not need your brain to be frazzled while making a living. Most professionals and people who have common sense will respect your request. If not and as soon as they open their mouth and it sounds like it could have waited say: "Thank you for calling, but I'm with a client/supervisor/project/or some other issue related to your job, I will get in touch with you later, Thank you for calling, Goodbye." BOOM, hang up. A few times like that and you will train everyone and they will know not to call you at work, unless it's an Emergency.
And take away the phone book your Father of all your numbers.
OOhhh, Plan B, I just came up with another solution. Post a fake number on your Refrigerator Door "My New Work Number" to some other Business were you have to push the telephone buttons a million times to get to a live person and tell the most important people who you truly like to hear from if there is an Emergency and tell them that you need privacy and your Father is abusing your work time. Now if you feel that is to much, go back to plan A. LOL
You have to figure out something that makes sense and you can live with.
Have a great day.

So late I discovered the problem growing up was the narcissism of my grandmother, mother and older sister, all of whom I was terrified and was excluded from their clique. Thank you, God.
However, my defiance and rebel attitude has helped me survive and even accomplish goals in spite of their attempts to hold me back, discourage my ambitions, and urge endless " therapy", from which I got NO HELP. The meds I took off and on never helped me, either. I can't count the psychologists I visited to find out "what was wrong with me." They never figured it out, but they took my money. One even tried to convince me that my father MUST have molested me. That's where I threw down the gauntlet, and gave up therapy.
When I started caregiving for my Mother, simultaneously discovered the true nature of my wimpy sister, my life flashed before me and I processed it. To survive the mental torture for 60 years and finally feel sane and strong is a redemption that feels euphoric. NEVER again will I doubt myself, or anything about myself, my values, intelligence or gifts. What a great feeling:) but the sadness of missed opportunities and the years of doubting myself ( or believing them who supposedly " loved me" ) still pisses me off once in awhile. Lol!

I hear of all of you loud and clear. I'm one of you. I finally "snapped to" and started standing up to mom and she hated me all the more for it so much so she disowned me and let her paid caregiver be her new daughter. Told me I was no longer "needed" in her life. She's been dead over two years and I'm still waiting to miss her. I don't. I was in my late 50s and still feared her. I was never allowed in the clique she and my sister had, never ever! I suffered a lot as an adult but I thank heaven above that I finally broke the shackles of a narcissistic mother. I echo Christina (my sis, the good one :-)!). I'm not going to be consumed with self doubt. What years I have left will be lived as a tribute to my precious, loving father. The one who loved me, no matter what I did and who valued my very existence.
My mother made my sister into a spineless, gutless mess. Never in a million years would I ever want to be her.

I had one of those bitches. How did I deal? I fought her like a caged tiger every chance I got. Even as a kid that wasn't old enough to know what was up, I didn't respect her one iota, or her behavior, I thought she was a nut job even then. I absolutely refused to bowed down to her utter stupidity, and you want to talk about RAGE? Oh sure, it meant beatings, verbal abuse, her throwing and smashing things, you name it. And? I still wouldn't bend, even as a child. I loathed and detested her with everything I had, and I gave as good as I got in spades. My attitude as a kid to her verbal and physical abuse? FUCK YOU. I paid for that royally, but hell would have frozen before I would break like she obviously wanted me to do. I told a neighbor once that the One let her adopt me, this hellion, because he knew I was the only one that wouldn't crack like an egg under that kind of never ending, intense pressure. I stayed true to ME, period, at all costs. And the costs were high.

I wrote this on another thread:

A narcissists reality, and true reality, are always two different things. It's like growing up with a parent who claims all the walls are painted black, demands and insists that everyone in the house agrees they're black, but all YOU see are white walls, and if you actually say that, all the demons in the narcissists soul are unleashed to pound you into submission, and if that takes a day, or a year, or a lifetime, they never run out of energy. When I say I fought for my life every minute of every day, I mean it literally. How I ever found it within me to find compassion and pity for my mom to be her caregiver is beyond me...all I know is that the One was around, no doubt about it in my mind. ALZ was a BLESSING in the end...the lady in the NH now that I call 'mom' is someone I don't mind calling mom. The harpy I knew has been dead for quite awhile. Thank God and good riddance. There are no tears in me, or love, for that bitch.

Piss on a narcissist, and DNA be damned. They're poison. Get them out of your world, one way or another, come hell or high water, and FIGHT for your life...if you're WEAK with a narcissist, you will be crushed and all the spirit and life leeched right out of you. YOU have the power to overcome the narcissist...they just don't want you to know it...but I do.

There are two options when dealing with a narcissist...you BREAK and bow down, or you FIGHT. Which will it be for YOU? You must choose, because those are literally the only options you've got.

StandingAlone, your posts are good for you because you have a lot of anger. I truly understand where that anger is coming from.

My dad was the verbal abuser. You could never disagree with him or have an opinion that differed from his. If you did, you were an idiot. I had a very strong will, as you do, and fought him often. I grew up in the sixties and seventies in Alabama. My dad was a racist. He would say the most awful things about black people and I would question him about his logic. He would get furious. Can you imagine raising your child like this. He didn't like anyone except his own kind. Why? Lord only knows, he was no prize.

He also had a problem with women having any rights. I was raised to be submissive and be a housewife. To "do for" and never expect anything for myself.

Fortunately for me, like you, I was a fighter. I married an educated man. God Forbid a Damn Yankee!!!! Educated my three daughters and moved 10 hours away. But the damage was done.

When he became ill and died, I realized I had absolutely no feelings left for him. So sad. But over time I have had to see the entire picture of emotional abuse, total lack of involvement of my mother. She is actually as narcissistic as dad but in a different way. I had a lot of anger and it still comes out. But through education and time I have become very indifferent to my mom and brother. That is all you can do with narcissistic people. Just build a wall and don't let them have a key to the gate.

Palm, I am so sorry that you had one of these narcissistic morons in your life, too. Thank GOD you are a fighter, too. You freaking have to be, and if you're not, you best learn.

I am no longer angry at my mother, or my past with her. It's over. My mom isn't the same person anymore, and thank God for that. ALZ took all that away, and I've done my forgiving. Does that mean I CAN'T and DON'T feel anger when I read these stories? No. I am capable of extreme anger and rage ...towards takers, abusers, losers, predators, narcissistic types, etc, etc, etc. Let me get even a WHIFF of that from anyone, even a HINT that someone is that type, let me feel even ONE iota of manipulation, and I immediately turn into the devil. Simple as that. One thing I've learned from good ol' mom back in the day is how to STAND UP for myself, and that will be with me till the day I die. I can be the nicest, most understanding and giving person...until I catch wind of bad behavior. Then I'll eject you out of my world so fast you'll think I fell of the face of the planet for all I'll ever have for you again. There is no compromise there, there are no excuses. Show me you're one of the scum on this planet, I don't give two shits if you rot, and I wouldn't spit on you if your ass was on fire. (That's 'you' in general, no matter who it is) That's how strongly I feel about these types of people. I dealt with one. I'll never deal with another. And DNA be damned. If someone does nothing but make your life an utter misery, get them the hell out of your world. Period. I told my youngest son who's 21 and had been giving me the 'silent treatments', that if he EVER pulled that shit again, if he wasn't man enough and didn't have the damn balls to TALK to me about what was wrong, and the only thing he could do was give me silence when I didn't even know what I had done wrong, if anything, he could get the hell out of my house and my life. And I meant every damn word of it. Again, DNA be damned. He hasn't pulled that crap since. He knows what's up if he does. Simple as that. You've got to be made of granite sometimes, especially when dealing with bad behavior. I just won't have it, I will NOT tolerate it, not ever again in this life. Neither should anyone else the way I see it.

wow its been a long time since I posted here and on another thread that I started last year about this same topic. No doubt I have a NM. I am the oldest of five and always felt this obligation to always be there for both parents. My father was saint-kept her somewhat in check but sadly passed away 5 years ago. I moved away many years ago but never cut myself out of their lives. when my dad died, I felt it was my duty to make sure she was being taken care of. Even though the other four lived closer, I was the only one that would take the time to try and help her. It backfired-she resented my help-accused of butting into her life and bossing her around. All I did was find out why she was having so many stomach problems-made sure she was taking her meds like she should etc. Bottom line she ended up in a nursing home twice for rehab. My baby brother at that point, cause he is lives closer than the rest-told her it was time she went into a beautiful assisted living place. Because he told her-there was no protest-she went knowing that the facility was no smoking. She was only there several hours when she decided she hated it. And she bitched everyday thereafter and then started smoking in her room. she was fined twice and mutual agreement she found another place to live. Not assisted living but a duplex. This brings us up to right now and the changes she has made. You see the five kids made it very plain to her if she didn't stop running other family members down and being so negative all the time-she would see less and less of them. I was already at the point done with her. I forgot to mention that I moved back to be closer to help out. I regretted that and since moved away once again. Okay I am blabbling on here-sorry. I want to be happy that she finally seems to be a better person. But I resent it. The whole year and a half I was close-she was the worst she had ever been not just to me but everyone. So of course, I am thinking, was it me that made her that way? I just know the other shoe is going to drop any day now but I have not had any complaints from anyone for a year now. Did the assisted living wake her up? Did the fact that her three boys refused to help her move wake her up? We talk on the phone. Nothing heavy-she seems to always be in a good mood and rarely complains. But now I have a problem with ME. I am so negative-I cant erase the hurt she caused me-I cant so no to anyone and thus get taken advantage of. I have no patience for anyone or anything. I did go to therapy but since I am very familiar with therapy-was not happy with this therapist. I cant afford most of them so I need to find one that accepts medicare and there are not that many out there. I just reread this whole post and now worry maybe my kids resent something I did in their lives-not really close to my son anymore and my daughter well lets say we sure don't connect like we did before she was married-she has been happily married for 12 years and I guess I just need to be happy for that. Not sure where I go from here. I am thinking maybe some spiritual guidance. Exactly after all these years what is my purpose in life. And oh one other thing-I am constantly going out of my way to try and please others-usually with a gift or a kind letter or card and then feel empty if I don't get a thank you or some signs of gratitude. Makes me think I am also a narisstic person. Feeling weary today!