Elderly, narcissistic mother jealous that I'm not physically limited like her. Advice?

Great big warm hug!

Turn your phone off or to vibrate during dinner. That's the rule in our house; no calls during dinner under any circumstances. Your mother can leave a message & you'll get back to her when you have time.

If your mother needs THAT much help, she should be living in Assisted Living where the doctor comes onto the premises to see HER, meals are served in the dining room 3x a day, and all of her activities will be planned out for her every day. When her needs outweigh your ability to see to them, it's time to move from IL to AL, especially at 92 years old when it's only a matter of time before she needs help with showers and all sorts of other ADLs! You're not her entertainment committee, either, so if she refuses to partake in social events at her IL or make friends, it's not YOUR job to take on that role. I'd let her know that in a gentle way and by telling her you're too busy to take her here, there and everywhere & are only available on X days each month to help. If that doesn't work for her, you'll be happy to set her up in AL.

When she goes off on your DH, I'd tell her I'm hanging up the phone now b/c that kind of talk is inappropriate and unappreciated & you will NOT HAVE IT. Stick to your guns, too, and if she wants to talk to you, she will stop that negativity or you'll immediately end the call. Lay down some boundaries and then stick to them like GLUE! These women look for cracks in the armor to slither through, so don't let that happen.

Good luck!

"Why did you marry her and give her a life which doesnt include me"

Because...when you marry you start a life together. Your spouse is now #1. You are going to have to learn how to ignore her. Make it clear that you eat at a certain time. If she calls during that time, you will not answer. You may also tell her you would see more of her if she was not verbally abusive and whiny .

At 92 there is probably some mental decline.

I can FEEL that pressure from just the words.

I drew a picture for a Social Worker once to describe how I was feeling.. your words remind me of it.

Two circles. One for me, one for her. Representing our two lives. Now I was happy in my circle, occasionally helping & sharing time with her - I drew two circles slightly overlapping to represent that. After time together, my little circle bounced back to being apart.

I felt that her circle had no real edges to it. That she had no concept of her life being separate to others. Just HER life. Her needs. Her circle was more like a giant edgeless shape trying to absorb others into it.

The Social Worker got it. Said this can happen when people become *dependant*. Maybe due to brain injury, disease/illness, mental illness or even personality disorders.

Basically, your Mom is similar to my LO. Not actually independant any more. That's the blunt truth. "Living alone but dependably" was how the SW put it.

Now you can see & feel this but Mom can't. To her, you are another part of her. The part that can drive, shop etc. She has lost sight of you being an individual & having your own life & needs.

Does my take make sense to you?

Wow, I can only imagine how horrible it is to have a mom like that! She's pretty impossible. Keep up with your boundaries and enact a few more to make things more tolerable for you. You also should practice, I think it's called grey rocking. Don't let her nasty comments in to bother you. Don't react, etc.

I understand the jealousy part. I get a little of that from my mom. She mistakenly thinks that she's having normal aging but she's so wrong. She never took care of herself and just let things happen. When I'd ask her to do PT and be more active she said things like "Oh I wish I could see you when you're MY age!". Sure, mom. I'm more active in my mid 50s than she ever has been in her life so it's just laughable. And annoying. I have learned from her what NOT to do to stay healthy and active.

Good luck!

My mother mentions senior trips that her church is taking and then expresses interest in going to see whatever it is that they are seeing on that trip. "I would really like to go see _____ and the other places they are going". My response "Mom you have the money why not go". "Well it's a lot of walking and I don't want to ride on a bus for that many days". "Mom they have wheel chairs and volunteers that will escort you". "I don't think I want a stranger pushing me around". She also constantly mentions the day trips that the local senior citizen center goes on. Same excuses. When I am on vacation or planning to take vacation time. "mom I am off for the next ____ days is there anywhere here locally you want to go to or to see?". "Well you would know better than me". "Mom can you look on the internet and see if there is someplace you would like to visit". "Well if I find something there's can't be a lot of walking". Unless she tells me where she wants to go I refuse to take her places. When I have taken her places before about 3 weeks later "You know I didn't really want to go there but you seemed insistent on taking me."

My mother (almost 88 with multiple health issues) just can’t understand why I spend so much time walking, hiking, whatever I can do to keep active. Ive had a couple minor health issues and she said “well those things happen wait till you’re my age and it takes even longer to heal.” I’m 68 and she can’t understand why i want to retire. I’ve thought she was jealous of me and then thought that was silly but now I’m not so sure! Hugs to you. Set boundaries and take care of you.

Limit when and how long phone calls are. Turn phones off during meals and should you want quiet or nap or other specific time to be uninterrupted.

We are the same age; Mom is a few more years older than yours. And mine lives with me and adult daughter. She has mellowed quite a bit over the last couple of years. Maybe..... your mom will in the future also... maybe not.

But you need to be prepared and limit time spent for her. And find a back-up plan to help her... someone else to grocery shop, dr. appts, etc. And when you do plan an activity for yourself or a trip, try going "no contact".

If you have expectations of everyday folks to narcissist you’ll always be disappointed.

https://howdofr.com/what-to-expect-from-the-aging-narcissist/

I believe your mom is depressed because she's no longer able to do the things she used to do and you are doing. Please talk to her Dr. Perhaps an anti depressant will help her to feel better. It sure helped my mom.

It sounds to me like you are taking the correct steps. Sometimes it is a matter of training like a mouse in a maze. When Mom calls and is not in good humor it is time to cut calls (and visits) short, saying you are sorry she is not in good humor and you will return when she's feeling better, will speak to her when she's feeling better. This way there is no "reward" for bad behavior.

Let's look on the bright side for a minute and count some blessings.

She doesn't live with you.
Your phone can easily be hung up or even be turned off at any time.
There are scores of homecare agencies, caregiver websites, and volunteer organizations with people who will do your mother's grocery shopping, run her errands, take her to doctor's appointments, out to run errands, and anything else.
Last but not least, if at 92 all you have to deal with from your mother is her being a negative downer on the phone when you call every other day, that's a blessing. Cut your calls down to once or twice a week and for half the time. Imagine your life if she lived with you and actually needed care.
Maybe you should 'Grey Rock' her for a while. Only have the most basic conversations with her and limit your questions to 'yes' or 'no' answers.
Your mother is like so many of our elderly people. It seems like total narcissism and even cruelty are entitlements to our elderly "loved ones". You're not alone.

My mum always felt the need to be a victim. She wanted people to feel sorry for her, especially after my dad died. She wouldn't help herself and did nothing to make her life better. She just felt self pity and was so negative and depressing about everything. She moved in with me, which wasn't what I wanted but it was a sudden move which I had no choice about. She dragged me down to my boots and I ended up needing counselling. In the end I had to challenge her about her behaviour because it was so unacceptable. She changed after about 2 years as she realised she wasn't going to get the sympathy and attention she craved. She's like a different person now thank goodness.

Why do you go?

Why do you listen to what she says?

Why do you hear what she says as though it’s true?

You are 68 years old! Why are you listening to her as though you were worthy of her comments? Are you expecting her to punish you if you don’t jump when she tells you to jump?

YOUR LIFE should not be regulated by listening to what makes her angry! You KNOW she will say absurd annoying insulting things, but you are NOT being paid to listen to them or respond to them!

SPEND LESS TIME WITH HER! You may be surprised to find that she may learn to interact MORE with other people in her residence.

So WHAT if she’s jealous of your freedom and independence? Your job is NOT to be her social director.

Take on the job that will make life better FOR YOU. Limit time, hang up or walk out when she goes after you.

YOUR GAME, YOUR RULES!

Kudos to you for looking out for yourself and keeping up a healthy, happy personal life. =). I am sorry to hear that her words are affecting you in this manner. She is projecting her feelings onto you, unfortunately, so just brush it off like unwelcome advice.

I agree with a lot of the advice offered here and would like to add onto these suggestions with another one.

To ease up future conversations with her, I would go into my simple 7 year old version of me mode and poke into her claims and ask "why?" to just about everything she says that I dont understand. If she asks simple questions, give simple answers. "Because I like doing it." "Because Im not tired and dont want to rest." "He is doing everything he can. Why? Do you have any ideas?". It will help her to process out what it is she is actually thinking and help nurture a normal human conversation.

Your mom would likely be critical if you were MORE limited than her too. I blew my knee out three years ago and it simply has not fully recovered, nor will it ever. At the time, PT got me to 70% and said that was pretty good considering the extent of my injury (I started PT at less than 20%). I was pretty proud of myself to accomplish that - until I reconnected with my narcissistic mom who is physically in great shape. She calls me a wimp for drinking my coffee with cream sometimes and a wuss because I can't run up and down stairs like she does. She tells me I shouldn't go and do with my friends or carry out my personal obligations because I'm so crippled I need to save what little energy I have for her. So you see - narcissists can take just about anything and turn it into a negative to use against their loved ones. The key for us is to first equip ourselves with kevlar to prevent crazy criticisms from hitting home.

I give my mom at a minimum one face-to-face day of my week every week - in the form of two half days. Half a day on Saturdays to help her do things she needs done or to take her to lunch or to go run errands with me - anything to get her out of the AL. The second half day is to go to church and lunch afterward.
If she is chipper and upbeat and positive when I see her on Saturday and Sunday, I make it a point to see her at least one evening of the week following, so she gets a little extra time. I also bring her a treat or sometimes send her flowers if I'm busy at work or send her some goodies via instacart. Positive reinforcement for good behavior!

On the other hand, if I arrive on Saturday and she is surly or abusive or manipulative, I don't stay as long as I normally do. While I'm with her, I try to redirect her toward a more positive outlook, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. If Sunday is similar, we don't go to lunch and then I don't go see her again til the following Saturday, but I call the AL and check in on her.

On those occasions when she is way over the top narcissistic, I physically stand up tall and take a breath (this is for my benefit, to feel equipped for a controlled confrontation) and I tell her that what time we have should not be spent in _______ and that I will see her soon. I emphasize that I WILL see her soon because there have been times when I've walked out for 10-15 years.

It helps me to recognize what she is doing and mentally call it by its name ("she's trying to belittle me", or "she's trying to divide me from the rest of the family" or "she wants to drag me down to her level"). If I can call her tactic by its purpose I can also deflect its effect on me AND I can stay in control of the situation.

My personal approach to life is not to look at anything as impossible, but I think it's safe to say that changing the behavior of an elderly narcissist IS impossible, especially with dementia. Control what you can - you. If you aren't prepared to talk to her on the phone, ignore the call until you are ready mentally and physically to talk. You are NOT responsible for her happiness. YOU know your own heart and intent, so don't accept the guilt she attempts to assign to you. Maybe, after self-reflection, you realize you did neglect her in some way. Don't wear the guilt for that either - just strive to do better. We all make mistakes. We all have days when we just don't have it in us to deal with the life we are living. As long as she is safe, fed, and sheltered, you are entitled to your own life and your own peace of mind. To be able to best take care of her, you have to take care of you FIRST. That's not selfish - that's long-term planning.

I’m walking in your shoes. sounds like you just described my bipolar, narcissistic mother. I am reading all the advice and tips on this forum and it helps tremendously!
live your life!
she has lived hers

Consider getting some counseling for yourself on how to deal with a narcissistic parent. You have to learn how to step back, live your life the way you want without guilt, set your own boundaries and not let her snarky remarks get inside your head. If you can do that, sometimes it makes things so much better that you can laugh at some of the things she says and may actually enjoy her company. The ideal would be to feel the love for her that you'd like to feel towards your mother. But wow! In a way you're lucky that your 92 year old mother has so much vim and vinegar.

tygrlly1: Inform your mother that you will not be available at certain hours that you designate, especially dinnertime. That's rich that she expects you to have a convo while your dinner gets cold. Also, when she berates your husband again, shut the convo down by saying something akin to "That's inappropriate."

Do what is important to your sanity.

Limit the time you take her phone calls to times that work for you. Let the rest go to voicemail.

Be consistent in the days and times you choose to interact with her.

Limit her negative talk/focus by changing the topic or ending a visit if she won't stop.

Consider reading any of the "boundary books" by Townsend and Cloud. They have good methods that actually work.

Hey tygrlly1, sounds like your mom is not necessarily envious/jealous of your ability (though that's part of it), but rather, she is doing what she does -- to you, to your dad, and to anyone who will let her. Does that sound right?

That's unfortunate, and I sympathize. I think you already know that the only way you're not her ongoing victim is to step back and shut down any unreasonable demands or inappropriate, hateful or gossipy comments. Some call it boundaries; another way to describe it is "behavior and consequences." If you reward/reinforce her undesired behavior, then she will continue. You don't have to "punish" her to get her to stop, just stop rewarding it in any way. Don't pick up the phone during dinner. Don't debate about your hub's worthiness. Don't debate about what you should or shouldn't be doing in your own life.

In behavior analysis it's called extinction. Maybe you could pause, change the subject, and if mom continues then it's time to end the conversation. Don't engage, don't engage, don't engage. lol I wish you all the best. Please stick around AC and share with others in similar situations because this topic of narc parents comes up often. Hugs.

I can so relate. Go on the trips! Be there for your Hubs/Children/Grandkids. You have a purpose & a different life to be lived. Help as you can, but free your mind! My NPD, etc. Mom tells me to sit down after my 2 hr drive up to see her. I tell her I need to move my body. She gets mad that I want to tidy up. She will tell me something is too heavy for me to lift. I tell her I work out twice a day. I like to focus on fitness. This was never my Mom. Thus her body is stiff & she struggles with her stairs. She is only 78. As hard as it is, I continue with the boundaries. Every weekly visit she yells & slams her hand on the table. I can barely move a piece of mail without her going into a tirade. As guilty as I feel, she is all the more resistant and angry. I do what I can & drive back the 2 hrs. Hard for me to believe this could go on for more than a handful of years.. Life is so amazing & she struggles to find the beauty/purpose in each new day.. We must put space between...and SELF CARE over all!

I had a similar situation. How I dealt with the phone calls was sometimes just simply, sorry I can't talk right now. Or other times I told her that if she persisted I would hang up, always in a pleasant tone. It took 2 years, I didn't call or visit her. But she finally got the message and we could just "visit." I know it must be hard when she is 92, but you have to take care of yourself. You don't have to yell or berate her, just flat out refuse to take it. Visits: "Mom if you keep this up, I am going home." I know it is a 2 hour drive but I think driving home and taking care of yourself is better that listening to abuse. Don't let guilt get in the way. Why do you visit? I also told my mom, we could have a nice time instead of talking about my husband or if I sounded stuffy, it must be pneumonia and then if she persisted," I have to go now mom, good-bye for now." My sisters and I called her the voice of doom. Once we got through to her, we could visit or call and not be worried about all of the negative stuff.

I had to put a lot of space between my narc mom and myself. She doesn't like to hear it is my time to travel and enjoy life. I took care of my mom's parents as she didn't have time too. The shoe is on the other foot. Mom has very poor short term memory and is somewhat confused. She refused to move into the cottage next door to me so I moved her into an elder care about 25 miles from my house. Narcs rule thru shame and guilt and a wee bit of name calling when they do not get their way. I'm firm. My siblings will have no part of her. Good luck. Your own health comes first.

If she's in Independent Living, let her live independently. Stop calling as much. If she calls you to complain, hang up as soon as she starts whining. Don't tell her about your trips. She can have her food delivered, so stop shopping for her.

Step way back, you're not going to change her.

this may want you to yell but maybe make lite of it. also she is 98 and i'm sure afraid of dying - so if you don't go anywhere she may feel comfort in the fact that you are around, should anything happen