Feeling lost, my parents fight (verbally) constantly. How can I continue to help them and not jeopardize my own mental health?

First, kudos to your continued sobriety! Blessings to you!

Your parents... *sigh*...

I had an Uncle who should have had his driving privileges retired but his children didn't act in time... he ran a red light and was t-boned, killing his wife and dog. She was 2x cancer survivor. Fortunately the other victims were not seriously hurt.

He won't let go of the driving without a fight. You won't be able to reason with him so don't even try. And, do not make a drama of "taking away his keys" -- this will surely lead to a bad scene.

If he doesn't have a diagnosis, then if you mess with his car he can report you. You may need to start by reporting him to the DMV. The process is different in every state. In FL, I anonymously reported my Aunt. I provided her driver's license number, and other identity info, and provided info that supported my claims that she was an unsafe and dangerous driver. They sent out a letter telling her to show up for a test (eye test) because her issue was with her vision (plus she had the start of dementia). We made sure no one took her for this test and her license expired. We transferred the car title to her niece who was her caregiver. I (as her PoA) went to lengths to discretely get other relatives, neighbors and friends to give her rides to her errands and appointments. I gave the volunteers gift cards to her favorite restaurants so they'd take her out afterwards. She enjoyed it so much, it lessened the loss of her license.

Talk to his DMV and tell them the circumstances and see what they recommend before you do anything.

Your Mom has mentioned Dad's dangerous driving. What is she prepared to do about it? Hide the car keys? Refuse to get in the car if he plans to drive? Call a taxi & request he sit in the back?

I fear this problem is bigger than the driving, as dangerous as that sounds.

Listen to them. Suggest they seek help. There is not a lot you really can do for people, adults, not living under your roof.

Please don’t make your parents’ arguments to cause you to stumble and fall. You have been in recovery for a long time. I know that you are very proud of that and you should be.

You can’t do anything about their behavior. Find support for yourself. They are going to do what they are going to do.

I agree with Geaton’s recommendation to see if the DMV can do something. If your dad still wants to drive, he still will, which is very sad.

Some people try different things like somehow disabling the car. I don’t know if you want to try that or not.

Wishing you peace in this struggle of dealing with your parents.

Attend AA meetings and take care of yourself. Don’t place yourself in a vulnerable position.

The time you spend with these two people would be much better spent with a good psychologist.
They have always been the same; why would you ever imagine they will change?

You, however are not the same. You are not a child now. You are a grownup with choices to make, and you the the loving parent of children who need not to be exposed to these two, or to be exposed to them infrequently with long discussions about how their actions cause themselves and others distress. They are a lesson in what not to be.

I recommend you listen to Dr Laura on Sirius FM radio. Or her podcast Dr Laura's call of the day. You will learn how to stop "marinating" as she calls it in the past. And how to stop yourself from meddling in a marriage and in life choices that are not yours to make. Your parents chose one another, constant bickering and alcohol. YOU CAN MAKE BETTER CHOICES.

Please consider attending al-anon. They are available everywhere. You will have there much support and guidance. I wish you the best. It's time to break the cycle that so harmed you.

By the way, there will soon come a time when you get "the calls" about one or the other having fallen, being hospitalized, whatever. Tell the social workers that if guardianship is needed then the state must take that on, as this uncooperative couple is not something you are able to handle.

Have you brought him to VA? Not all people are close to them and I have noted there is a big difference between VA Centers, the one near was great to my dad and has been great for my 97 yo uncle.

Please consider how much contact is good for you & your immediate household..

"It’s hard just to be in their presence with all their fighting."

Then avoid.
Stay on the perimeter & raise any alarms from there.

Do not walk into water where crocodiles live. They will take your limb as you dip a hand or foot into the water.

I grew up in a toxic home and wound up with several oral fixations as well as anxiety issues to boot. The first time I had access to booze I was 13, at the neighborhood block party, and drank beer until I was dead drunk. It was the first time in my life I felt no anxiety, fear or worry. Sad isn't it?

I got sober for 9 years in 1992 before falling off the wagon for 7. Every time I had to deal with my mother, I wanted a drink (or 20), a bag of junk food and a cigarette (or 20) to calm down. I'm sober now for 16 years now, smoke free for 9 years, and still working on becoming sugar free, at 66, to this day 🙄.

You don't risk your sobriety for anything or anyone. I knew that myself and made the decision long ago to never move in with my parents or take them into my home. I call that Learning Through Scar Tissue. Once was more than enough. So when dad had to stop driving, which HE thankfully recognized, I had them move cross country near me. I found them an apt in Independent Senior Living, then Assisted Living, then Memory Care Assisted Living for mom. The most unhinged ones always seem to develop dementia later on in life, it's uncanny.

I knew if I over involved myself with their fighting and dysfunctional relationship, that I'D be risking MY sobriety by exposing myself to too much anxiety. So I limited my contact with them and set down firm boundaries with them as well. Phone calls were short, visits would end as soon as the histrionics ramped up, etc. Mom played the Blame Game like a world class champ, so there was no reasoning with her.......I would just get up and leave. I was The Bad Guy since I was a kid, so playing that role came naturally to me ANYWAY.

It's on MOTHER to DO something about her demented husband driving and risking their lives, and other lives, behind the wheel! Does she suffer from dementia as well? Because let me tell you, the LAST thing I'd do is get in the car with your father who runs red lights. Her telling YOU about it accomplishes what, exactly? She's stayed married to the man for 50 years so they're complicit in their games and enabling one another's bad habits, too. Stay out of it. Protect yourself.

Some crisis or another will happen to force one or both of them into managed care one day. Then you'll visit sometimes and leave when the histrionics ramp up, like I did, and go home to a peaceful life and a bottle of soda instead of bourbon.

Good for you for seeking and being successful in recovery. I don’t have your past and I still would be hesitant to wade into circumstances like you describe your parents. Please help from a “safe for you” distance, and nothing more. The local DMV and Council on Aging and even perhaps Adult Protective Services, if necessary, can guide you. I wish you the best, your parents are blessed that you still care

MazemB,

Download the form from DMV regarding how to report an unsafe driver and fill it out and mail it (anonymously). It may take a few weeks but DMV will notify your dad that he has been reported as driving in an unsafe manner and he needs to undergo a driving test. He will have to do this and they will not tell him who reported him. Could be a neighbor, a doctor, anyone who saw him or knows how he drives. When he fails, which he probably will, they will automatically take away his driving privileges. Then you can say to him, "dad if you drive and get into any accident, there will be consequences, you could go to jail."

I know this sounds harsh, but if he is unsafe driving then his community is in danger when he is behind the wheel. What if he hits a child riding their bike or hits a family in their van?

As to their fighting, there is nothing you can do to stop it. Leave when it starts or hang up the phone. Do what you can and then try to let go. You do to control them, you cannot fix them.

I'm so sorry. Many of us have experienced what you are going through. We do understand. Get enough sleep. Hug your family and thank whom ever you thank that you are sober and have a healthy and loving family surrounding you.

This too shall pass, I hope that it passes quickly for you.

Your parents' relationship is based on the drama of the arguing (and drinking?) they have done all their lives. They would probably be lost without it. Good for you to be out of the situation. If they are reaching a stage of being unsafe in their current environment, maybe you should ask for a Senior Services evaluation of their circumstances.

Just a postscript here, MazemB, but most of all: Praise to you and respect for having broken the cycle of alcohol and verbal abuse. All the praise in the world for you, as this is your Life's crowning achievement! I totally agree with Alva, to tune in through Sirius, to "Doctor Laura" to reinforce the absolute refusal to marinate in your parents' behavior. Al-Anon, too, is a great way to sit amongst a group those who are choosing a different path than the "hand they were dealt" as a child, having to grow up in this horrid & acrimonious climate. My ears pricked up when you wrote of your parents proximity to a VA Hospital. There might come a time when your Dad has an ambulance called for him, after a fall, a car wreck, a heart attack, etc. If he is taken to the VA Hospital quite nearby, if you feel "safe" in doing so, you might voice your opinion to the VA "ER" folks that your father is NOT a Safe Discharge to his home. My uncle (each time he fell, and his tiny wife could not get him up) would always be able to con the ER personnel that he was fine now and wanted to be taken home. He was in advanced Dementia, could not walk, was encopretic, etc., and finally his wife was able to convince the ER folks that he could not be brought back home. She told ER that she would have the doors at home locked, and he could not be brought back in. She did also consult with his primary care doctor at the VA, who agreed that he should be hospitalized for "further assessment" and not discharged. This might not apply to your Dad, but others on this page might learn something useful from this story. My uncle never came home again, first was placed in VA Rehab, then Hospice was assigned to him in Rehab, where he died several months later.

Ssorry for the issues you are having with your parents. My father was diagnosed with dementia more than a year ago, and the doctor said he should not be driving. Easy decision for me to just keep his keys from him. Dealing with the arguments is preferable to him driving and putting others in danger. Looking out for his safety despite his efforts to the contrary is absolutely necessary. After losing my mother almost 20 years ago, my father and I got a place together. It has hard over the past 3 years watching him change and becoming harder to deal with. But, doing the right thing and making the hard and unpleasant decisions that can go with it is the path that some of us are placed on. I have no regrets about any choices that I have made regarding my father's safety. It is like walking into a storm that you cannot avoid. Just do your best with each day and each challenge. Good luck to all of us who are facing issues with ageing parents. And, place your mental health as your priority. That is the only way for us to avoid developing medical issues for ourselves. GOD help all of us.

Oh dear friend you are in a very very difficult situation. You must do everything you can to stop the driving immediately as the legal risk is high! Can you and your family afford a multi million dollar law suit for allowing him to drive when you know he is impaired with dementia and or alcohol?
The fighting could be decreased by separating them, he may be ready for meds and a memory care unit. God bless as you find solutions ASAP..

I grew up in a ridiculous toxic house like this, and it puts you in an extraordinary place of IMMENSE guilt/grief because you're constantly thinking of a way to solve the problem and calculating how much if it you "caused", when you cannot wave a wand to solve it and you didn't cause this problem.

You've gotten really good advice here (more for other drivers on the road, not your own parents or especially dad at this point, if he can't understand he shouldn't be on the road.) But my advice is, except for trying to get dad to stay off the road, stay away from them as much as possible and live your own life. Never ever feel guilty because someone in your life absolutely needs that level of drama to keep going.

Parents like this are just not being sensible or fair to kids in the house when they have a drama-dependent relationship like this. I'm better off without all that in my life and you will be, too.

Good luck and please keep us updated how you're doing.

MazemB: Remove a key element in dad's automobile. Never risk your sobriety as it's too hard to achieve.

Several red flags stand out to me:

First, OF COURSE "it is hard just to be in their presence with all their fighting." Who wouldn't find this hard and emotionally/psychologically draining and stressful? We all would. You need to realize that YOU need to set boundaries for yourself, clearly state them, then abide by them. Do not involve yourself where you are not welcome nor can. It is a no-win situation. Don't keep knocking your head against a wall.

1) Dementia is likely one of the issues causing behaviors / reactions. Dad needs to get checked out ASAP. Can you intervene with a health care 'check' appointment? If not, unfortunately, something may need to happen before he gets medical care (i.e., an accident, fall, etc.).

2) You say "I'm struggling how to help them with many of life's issue." The reality is that you cannot HELP THEM IF THEY DON'T WANT YOUR HELP.
You can't do more than: (1) they will allow; (2) a medical intervention / diagnosis (to find out what is needed, i.e., caregivers and different housing arrangement; and/or (3) depends on what legal authorization responsibilities you have, if any, i.e., POA, on bank/financial accounts as a co-signer or responsible. Obviously. they cannot manage their finances. Although you never ever want to make their financial 'mess' your mess. If you get involved legally with their finances, keep good records.

* You need to (realize that you need to) STOP struggling and step back.
If they will not 'listen' to you (and they cannot at this point and perhaps this is their "MO" for many years / decades). If they won't allow you to help them help themselves, do not be a 'co-dependent." Even if they do / did, let your limits (time, contact attorney if needed). Don't be at their 'beg and call.'

Be clear with what you believe they need to do and tell them: (medical exam, get caregivers in, financial overseer (you? someone), 'stop fighting in your presence,' or at the very least 'talk civil to each other in your presence (consider what that environment is doing to your teens if they are around this); get an intervention / social worker-therapist in to sort out their frustration.

* DO NOT subject yourself to the fighting / screaming. Then this happens, leave.

* DO NOT put yourself in the middle of a no-win situation, which is what it appears you are (trying to ) doing.

While you say you are going to talk to dad about his driving, he won't listen to you. Disassemble part of the car or switch keys so it won't open / start. You don't want him killing himself or others on the road. Make this a priority.

The question is:

Why do you think you need to 'help' in this toxic situation? Or how do you think you can help?
What is driving you emotionally and psychologically?
Your behavior (the "I have to's") likely goes back decades. You need to figure out what is running you so you can stop. Feel confident and balanced.

Yes, this will continue to take a 'toll on me' (you) as long as you allow that to happen. They are not going to change, so you have to. Step back ... way back.

Yes, their life choices are catching up with them. This is their responsibility, not yours. Do not make it your problem, it isn't. They are running out of money and will need to do what they need to do, i.e., sell the house?

Lastly, if you feel it could help them, call Adult Protective Services (APS) and let them know what is going on. If 'only' a couple fighting with signs of dementia, they may say "we here that a lot" and may not be able to do anything, however it may be worth a call.

You cannot make them do anything if they are legally responsible for themselves. Unfortunately, often a medical need presents itself which then dictates the next course of action.

You need to deal with your sadness, grief, guilt and everything else you are feeling. As you say you are the father of two teens, you need to focus on your immediate family. Your teens need you.

Gena / Touch Matters

Good luck, MazemB. I feel for you! Do not jeopardize your own mental health and personal or family stability to help your parents.

Maybe the VA can help your Mom do some interventions with your Dad. It is not entirely on you nor should it be.

It's like they are both drowning -- you can throw them life rafts, call for help, make suggestions, etc. But don't swim into the deep end to try to save them by yourself.

I am in a somewhat similar situation, yet further down the road. My dad has dementia, and my mom did finally take away the keys, but there have been numerous other problems and her mental health is suffering. No easy answers when they don't want to do what they should. Best wishes to you.

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So sorry for what you are going through. I went through this with my dad (who was 86 and had dementia). We (my sister and I didn't even know he had dementia, as both he and his wife were really good at hiding it. But she (his wife) ended up in the hospital, an dying a week later, and it then became quite obvious he had dementia.

Around that time, one of his doctors (or a doctor at a hospital...we never knew) reported him to the DMV, and I even went with him to get an ID card and for them to punch his Drivers License (to make it invalid). It didn't matter, he still drove. Nothing I could do to stop it. If I would have incapacitated his car, or took the keys, a neighbor would have helped him get it running again, or (heaven forbid) he would have just gone and bought a new car...someone would have been insane enought to sell him one. An attorney I talked to said I did not have the legal right to put the club on his steering wheel. Geez!!! While he did end up in a single car accident, totalling one of his vehicles (late at night, drunk, going around a corner, ended up rolling over in someone's field...he ended up unscathed), he still had another car he could drive. Thank God he never had an accident involving another person, because yep they could have sued him for everything he had. We told him that time and time again, but of course with dementia, it didn't sink in.

I could write a book on everything my sister and I did to try to help him (I lived 3 1/2 hours away, and she lives two states away). He lived in timbuktoo, in a gated community with NO people in town to pay to help him. It was insane. We finally did find an independent person to help him, who he drove to quit after a couple of weeks, and a friend of his helped him for 2 or 3 months (both were paid about $2,000/month out of his funds to help him...DON'T use your own funds...you have to think about your future too!). When his friend couldn't handle it any more, we told him he had to go to an adult family home, because there was no one to help him otherwise. He went, but the drama wasn't over...different topic.

Anyhow, it will be hard, because they are your parents, but you have to keep your boundaries and protect yourself mentally and physically, even while doing what you can to help them. It will be a balancing act, and not easy. Hopefully you have a brother or sister, or relative or friend you can talk to, as that really helps.

Our thoughts are with you...you will get lots of support here on the forum!