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My 90 yr old dad flirts with a lady in his senior living residence. Staff/Director is demanding we pay an extra 'sitting' fee so he doesn't touch her or anyone inappropriately. They are threatening that if something happens, it is a felony and he could go to jail. We live in Oklahoma. Help! We can't afford to hire a sitter ($5000/mo) on top of his Senior Living care ($4500). When we said we may have to take him to another place, they said he might not be accepted since they have 'incident' reports on him. My dad is not aggressive, just friendly with some dementia. Seems like a shake down to me. Any advice would be helpful.

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That’s ridiculous. After my mom died my dad was moved into the memory care unit of the facility they were in. He immediately took to a lady that looked a bit like mom. She didn’t mind. Her dementia was worse than my dads. The staff was great. They Would sit them together during meals. They’d hold hands sometimes. When I’d visit he tell me to say goodby to mom as I was leaving.

Moving elders is a pain. But I think I’d go to battle with these jerks.
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BurntCaregiver May 2021
Windyridge,

You are right. The family should not let this go. It sounds to me like a scam that will bring in a lot of money that no doubt will be divided among a very small circle of people.
For sure the Louise0717's family isn't the only one being hustled by this AL.
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What do you mean by flirting? Have you read the incidence reports? Has he touched her without her consent? Does the lady resist his advances, whatever they may be? Do they sit together, hold hands, enjoy each other's company, or what? I would certainly read their documentation to see what these incidents are. Is his senior living residence independent living, assisted living or MC? They each require a different level of attention by the staff. Living with dementia can be a lonely experience. It is not unusual to witness two strangers in a facility holding hands. It's about companionship.

Don't hire a sitter. I would be looking for a different facility now. The director has no business suggesting your dad might not be accepted, Whether he's accepted or not is the new facilities decision.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2021
Unfortunately the current facility can cause problems with a move by falsely reporting behaviour issues.

This sounds like extortion to me and I would be moving my loved one without any documents from the current facility.
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I write from the patients perspective. I was diagnosed with Early Onset ALZ 5 yrs ago in two weeks. My mother was DON for a Catholic Skilled Nursing Facility. Now, to be honest this lesson was taught to me back in the 70's. My mother said, you can always move a Resident out of a Facility. You can tell them you are bringing him home after you've moved him out. Then go to a new facility and don't tell them he's been in another facility. If he's just flirting and talking, so what he's 90 yrs old. Now if the situation was he was physically assaulting other patients, Yes, he could find himself being interviewed by the police. Flirting is something men and women have been doing for millenniums.
My thoughts and that and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
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Petite1 May 2021
YAY jfbctc. It sounds like your early onset alz has definately not gotten any worse. Good for you......and your Mom was a smart woman. I see where you get it from!
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I would move him out and I would not tell the new facility that he is coming from another facility. These kinds of threats are reason enough to move him.

There is all kinds of touching and even relationships that happen in senior facilities, did her family complain or is it the facility management that thinks he is behaving inappropriately?

Has he actually touched someone inappropriately or just talking?

I think that you are being hustled by a facility that doesn't understand elder care.

I recommend moving him closer to family that can help keep an eye on the truth of the situation.
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He may not be able to be in Assisted Living with this behavior and may need memory care where he has more supervision or may require a nursing home. I am so sorry you are all going through this. Does your Dad have a diagnosis of any dementia? If so, then he will not be convicted of a felony, but they may ask him to leave.
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CathyS May 2021
Six months ago, my mom was in an ILC. She had a crush on one of the guys there. Thankfully, there were no issues or incidents. My mom might have been the one to worry about instigating things, so I'm glad nothing escalated to that point. Now she is in a MC situation and doesn't want ANY male around. She doesn't like it that these guys have the right to walk around in the halls. She thinks they are always coming in her room. That's not happening, but now I'm watching things on the other end if the spectrum. And we think the teenage years are rough. Ha!
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Demand to see the ‘incident reports’ and ask why you were never advised of this before. If he tells you he will get for you tell him you want them this minute (so he can’t type them up). Next get your contract with the facility and read it carefully. Next go online and see if you can find any reviews or complaints about the facility. You need to have confidence, take an offensive stand with factual data to back it up. Then start looking for a new place for Dad and a good pro bono or contingency Atty for you. And speak with the lady he’s flirting with and ask her if she is afraid of dad. Be strong. Don’t be a victim. ❤️❤️
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SusanHeart May 2021
My dad has been in an AL MC for the past 2 years and 2 girlfriends 1 moved to a different facility and then I moved my dad. The way I handled it was asking the ED from the facility to see if the family of the girlfriend would meet with me, which we did including the ED the family had no objections and things progresses as good friends and companions.

Residents in these facilities are lonely, frightened and oftentimes confused it only helps to have some companionship. There is no reason to keep them apart.

I agree with everything you said PatienceSD
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‘Flirts’ usually means talk eg ‘How come you get more beautiful every day?’. ‘Touching’ can mean hand holding or shoulder patting. Both are a very long way from sexual interference. Anyway, knee-patting would be a misdemeanor not a felony (unless your laws’ definitions of a felony are very strange). I can’t quite see just how Dad could get his mits under the clothing this lady would wear, if he wanted to get to her genital area. But do check if he is going into her bedroom, or worse her bed.

I’d ask to see the reports of ‘incidents’, plus records of discussions with the lady and her family saying what their reactions are. HOWEVER if this is a scam then a) the reports may be written up after you ask for them and b) you would probably be getting a new scam sooner or later.

‘Pay money or we’ll report it to the police and he’ll probably go to jail’ falls fair and square into the definition of blackmail. Might be worth mentioning, see if they run.
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Please consider this from the point of view of the lady's family. You see him as friendly and flirty. They may see him as dangerous and a sexual predator. Her family may see their "mom" as incapable of understanding or knowing how to protect herself. They still see her as "mom" and maybe still see her as "Dad's wife" - whether or not Dad is still alive. They don't see her as a lonely woman who might appreciate to company of a man and even relish romance. In their view, your father is making unwanted advances and needs to stop - now.

I suspect that the family of the woman has confronted the administration about your father's actions. They want it stopped now. So, you are being notified that something must be done. Interestingly, the facility hasn't considered locks that only staff can operate, especially at night. It seems that the facility should be able to keep your father and the lady in question in separate activities during the day. Though it may sound harsh, maybe your father needs to be locked into his room at night so he doesn't wander.

Please consult a lawyer that specializes in elder care for specifics about your situation. He/She can give you specific guidance based on the laws in your area.
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JustAnotherRN May 2021
That is certainly a concern and why I suggested a men’s unit. Facilities get into serious trouble if they don’t protect their residents. For reasons I can’t get into in detail, I am aware of a situation very much like this and the spouse moved the resident to another facility without warning the new facility about the very troubling actions of the spouse. The new facility had to involve the police soon after the “flirtatious” resident arrived. I can’t condone sneaking residents around, but if this is the “solution” that the facility came up with and there are no other options, this facility is not the right place for this individual on many levels.
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I have a question: Have them describe to you what they consider inappropriate touching. Does the lady object to his flirtations? She may very well love the attention.

Unfortunately, many younger people don't realize that feelings don't change as we age. Ninety-year-olds fall in love as much as a twenty-year-old. And physical contact is important, dementia or not.
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MsRandall May 2021
If the woman is competent and did not object to the "flirting" It is not likely the facility would care. More likely, the woman is incompetent -- in which case she cannot give consent OR she objects to the flirtation.
Unconsented to touching is never acceptable. The touching doesn't have to inappropriate to be problematic -- It just has to be unwanted
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You said flirting. They’re demanding you pay thousands extra for a sitter. For flirting
This is a good example of something many people already know. Assisted living facilities are an industry and oftentimes predatory - I don’t have time to go into examples now maybe later but yes this is as you put it a “shakedown”.

a felony? That’s absurd. They’re trying to con you into paying thousands extra on top of what your already paying for.

what do they pay their staff for? One reason is to ensure safety. So they should not require a sitter on top of what they’re already being paid a lot of money for!

Disgusting they’re taking advantage of your circumstances but that’s what they do.

If he had assaulted someone that’s a different story. I would take him out of there and find a way to care for him at home, at his age he doesn’t have that much time left anyway, if you can’t do that then find an alternative to this disgusting place
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Petite1 May 2021
very well stated!
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