My father was the one to care for my grandmother for the past 20 years but he died in 2020 and left the duplex he owned, with her living on one side, to me. My grandmother is 84 and still able to do most daily tasks. She only gets $1100 from social security and has no life insurance or any assets.
As context, the duplex she lived in was in Missouri, I am in Florida. The duplex was in horrible condition and she was constantly asking me to replace and fix things that my father did not do. It became too much for me financially and emotionally so I asked her if I could sell the duplex and move her to Florida. She was fine with that and she moved in with me, my husband and 3 yo son for a while and we saved the money from the sale of the duplex for her future care.
We were renting at the time and the house had stairs, she complained about them constantly, so I bought a large house to fit us all and to give her one half of the house. As soon as we moved in, she immediately was a different person than I thought I knew. She locked herself in her room (with her dog) for days on end, crying and screaming hysterically and not eating. I did not grow up with her and I thought I had a good relationship with her but now I know why her two remaining living sons do not want anything to do with her. I was not about to let her act that way in front of my son so I had to move her somewhere quick.
The only place I could find for her on short notice was an "affordable" independent living community for $2000/month. We didn't get much from selling my father's duplex since he had a mortgage on it. I also had to pay $10k out of it to move her and all her stuff. When it came down to it, there was really only enough to last her 2 years at that place. She sporadically sends a $500 check but I cannot count on it. We're at the 6 month mark now and she's not talking to me and won't help me get access to her bank statements so I can finish the Medicaid application. I have financial and medical POA but her bank has made me go back and forth so many times to get them supporting paperwork and I still don't have access.
I am done with all her games but I also don't want her to be homeless when the automatic payments stop in a few months. I am also still waiting to see if medically, she is applicable for Medicaid, I know she is financially eligible in Florida. I've even filled out HUD apartment applications for her to sign, one was right around the block from the community she lives at now, but when I went to pick it up and take it to the apartment she said she would "figure something else out" and I haven't heard from her since. I don't know what else to do to make sure that she has a roof over her head when the funds run out but I am feeling very worn down by her and do not want to spend anymore energy doing anything else for her. I feel that I've done everything I could possibly think of to take care of her while working full time, running a small business of my own and trying to be there for my husband and small child but she's made it impossible every step of the way. Now, I'm now she's stopping every attempt to move her somewhere that she can afford on her own even though she's said how unhappy she is there and that she feels trapped. What other options are there to have someone else facilitate this transition for her?
Also unless she has been officially diagnosed as incompetent, even APS (adult protective services) may be limited in what they can do. Unfortunately, competent folks can chose to be homeless.
You are not a divine power. You have done all you humanly can do.
I will say this: Don't take her into your home when she shows up at your door with a sob story, homeless, and acting all nice & contrite. She will go back to her old ways in a New York minute once the door closes and she's nice and comfy back in your house. You can't have that again. Keep in mind what happened last time, okay?
I know it's hard to say No to a loved one, but in this case, mental illness or dementia is making it necessary for you to do so.
Best of luck with a difficult situation. I hope your grandmother finds her way out of this whole mess.
if this is correct, does she or has she paid her 50% of all property costs? Like has she paid 50% of property taxes, insurance, etc?
if not, you have your own records to show you & hubs have paid all, right?
The home your dad had…. She lived in 1/2 of the duplex but she was not a legal owner, right? She was never ever an owner?
but you gave her 1/2 of the proceeds of its sale and that’s the $ she is using to pay for the place she is in now, right?
what exactly is that $500 she pays sometimes for? And is there anything in writings as to the $500.
You have no POA with her, right?
and you are not a signatory on any of her banking, right?
her current rent is paid via AcH from whose bank account? And what is the source of $ deposited into this account?
is there any co-mingling on any banking or co-ownership on anything, like a credit card, a utilities, cable, phone accounts?
Shes 84 and able to live independently, right? Is where she currently lives more of a Senior community where there’s mainly folks way way better off financially than she is?
i ask all this as I’m trying to discern just how responsible you actually are for her….. you’re going to need an atty but what kind to me very independent on the answers,
At her age if she's started with the refusing to eat along with the hysterics and semantics, she cannot live in an apartment on her own. The best thing you could do for her, really the only thing you can do for her at this point is put her in touch with a social worker.
She needs more help then you can give her. Even call APS if yiu have to.
Thanks for the updates. So ok so is this accurate….. gran was & is not at all legally on your current home or the one you sold, right?
and
the bank account used to pay IL via ACH is in your name & so tried to your own SS#, right?
well if so, imho, ya need to change that ASAP.
Where is her SS mo income going into?
The same account?
Or does weasel of a grandma have her SS $ going into another acct she controls totally?
Bank acct her own SSA income goes into needs to be imho, the acct the ACH gets drawn from. So either
1. IL ACH gets moved over to the in her name account w/SS$ deposits
or
2 she opens up a fresh account for her SSA and the IL ACH
or
3. acct stays as it is but you remove yourself entirely as owner and she becomes the owner. Ask a bank officer what would be simplest….. if they ask just say you want to avoid any semblance of co-mingling.
You need to do this soon as the train wreck is 6 months from now. The acct her SSA $ goes into & IL payment drawn from needs to be in her name and under her SS# before the wreck. If your her POA you can be a signatory on the account - not a Co owner but just a signatory. Personally I’d be a signatory. You do not necessarily let IL know.
so out of kindness of your heart, as gran had NO LEGAL ownership of the duplex, nor on any home you & your hubs own, you have gifted her $ from duplex sale of which she has & is using to pay her IL?
Is that right? You are a wonderfully thought granddaughter.
if you are continuing to gift her $ regularly beyond what you already have, stop! It will pose issues for any Medicaid application. It looks like “income” and likely a caseworker will delve into just why would a young grandkid with her own family to support do this…. It look like maybe something shady happened on Missouri duplex real estate transaction. FL caseworker can’t easily see legal filing in the old duplex state.
That irregular $500 from her to you looks like gifting. You need to do a ledger of things those $500 paid for. Shoes, toiletries, magazines, eyeglasses, whatever. From now on out, when she needs stuff, she pays for them. Not you. You may need to take her shopping; or she cashes a check to the penny on separate receipts if you shop for her. I imagine the business office of the IL can cause a smallish check for a resident. But please stop depositing them into your own acct. Again looks like gifting. You just want to do whatever u can to keep that from becoming an issue.
Please pls try to get this done. It will set her on a path to deal with the financial aspect of Medicaid. Then you can gear up for helping her figuring out how to qualify medically for LTC Medicaid or income based housing if she’s not at need for a SNF yet.
Also realize the place she is in has had other residents run out of $. Someone in admissions will have suggestions.
What you need to make clear is a quick summary of what you have done (eg attempt to get her to sign papers for accommodation) and what you will NOT do now. This last needs to be crystal clear – she cannot enter your house, you will not take financial responsibility for her, pay her bills or give her money. You will NOT waste more time suggesting options. You will NOT take her phone calls, or calls about her. She must now take responsibility for herself. Add the list of phone numbers that might help her.
Many people (including husbands, grandmothers and social workers) refuse to believe that you will not rise to the occasion and help, if push comes to shove. You owe it to everyone involved to make it clear that it is NOT an option.
First, I would not simply turn over the remaining funds from the duplex sale to GM. While I understand a fully support your desire for them to go toward her living needs I don’t think simply handing them over to her is going first accomplish that and second enable you to wash your hands of her care financially. What happens when she blows through that will you be able to let her go homeless then? It doesn’t sound like she is emotionally or cognitively stable and that may have been going on well before her senior years if her children don’t want any part of her. I would instead put it in a separate account in your name, it is after all yours since the duplex was left to you and only you so you have it as back up down the line if and when you need to rescue her again. You can supplement her SS income with just enough to cover the IL rent and maybe 2-300 a month for food etc making it clear that you will only do this for say the end of the lease term there (5-6 months is it?) $900 + #200 = $1100 a month x 6,600. That gives her 6 mos to apply for assistance and given her income I’m pretty sure she will qualify for SNAP or whatever they call food stamps and assistance in Fl very quickly so she won’t starve unless she chooses to. Wether you actually do it or not I would give her a list of the expenses you have been paying for, including rent going back to your first place in FL and deduct that from the chunk of money you are putting aside. You actually or I should say she actually has the best case for applying for Medicaid or other aid because none of the homes were ever in her name or part of her assets which should help her qualify faster for help.
She doesn’t like where she is and feels trapped but she doesn’t want to move to an apartment she can afford or help you get the info you need to apply for assistance…have you asked her what she does want? I’m sure part of her is fearful of loosing her independence even though she hasn’t really had it for a long time given your father and now you have been providing her with a place to live. Still fear can make us unable to move forward and the feeling of independence loss often makes us dig our heels in and not “like” anything. Maybe simply asking what she really wants and then going from there so she feels she has some say. If she want to live with you, that isn’t possible what’s next on her list? Staying where she is also isn’t possible she can’t afford it. This is the time to take out the list of her income and expenses so she can see first hand how much help she is getting from you which you can no longer continue. There are options though that she can take advantage of if she wants and you are very willing to help her navigate all of that and choose the option that makes her happiest but she has to participate and help you do that. Both to set her up for any applications and to give her back her independence you are going to discontinue the automatic withdrawal from your bank account for the rent where she is living and strongly encourage her to have it withdrawn from her account, you will help if she wants and for the remainder of the lease (as long as she’s living there) you will add $1100 a month to that account so she can. If she decides not to take advantage of this opportunity to figure things out or take you up on the offer of help that’s up to her but you don’t want to see her having to take the first thing she can get or worse homeless so you hope she will. Turn the tables if you can so she asks for your help instead of you asking for hers to help her! Of course the obstacle here is you need to be willing to let her fail if she chooses not to help herself. Also this assumes she is cognitively capable of making decisions, good and bad. It may be that she has declined more than you or her other children realize which only means you need to take over providing you have DPOA. Strength!