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My concern is that some of these neighbors are on the board in the condos and have the power to make decisions and have tendencies towards bossiness. They seem to be paying attention to how often I am doing laundry (daily) and asking if mom is incontinent, etc. I am re-luctant to give them a full report as it seems to me this would be inviting them into areas of our life that are none of their business.
I live with my mom, who will be 96 yrs. in April. It IS getting more challenging mostly due to staying on top of the toileting issues but I am hiring help more often, mostly cause I am getting more burned out. Overall Mom seems to be doing pretty well actually.
Cadams

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What I have come to understand about "concerned" neighbors, is that they are mostly concerned about the possibility of a person who might set the townhouses on fire b/c of Alz. I had one specifically ask if she messed around with the controls on the stove. Thank God she doesn't go anywhere near the stove, but still, that seems to be the only thing they are "concerned" about.
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cadams, you are not alone. I know a great deal about the subject because I have dealt with HOA's in the past on a professional basis + am going through something similar to you now. The HOA that my mom's new condo belongs and the adjacent HOA have bullies that are fairly toxic individuals. When you get two toxic personalities together in a community of older adults - many who are easily intimidated and have health issues, this becomes more than just an HOA overstepping it's bounds - the issue is how to reign in and assign legal accountability for individual actions that are bullying and border on the legal definition of elder abuse. One of the bullies (an HOA president) flounts the rules for himself, but will lie about others to isolate and intimidate them. The other HOA president who was recently removed by the HOA membership for her outrageous histrionics and high handed behavior is fast friends with this guy - together they make peoples lives miserable. An amusing bonus is that the male HOA bully moved in his unemployed underage son who now walks around in scrubs while the bully boasts about how his son is in 'medical school' (kid is going to a career college for a HHA license). The bully implies that his son will continue to reside there and is available to be hired to care for the older frail adults.

I share this because this type of behavior is not ok and usually so mean that it will impact your health, how you care for your mom, her health and cause you to feel like you are somehow inferior. Don't let them do it. My response to the bully must have scared him enough to begin a whispering campaign which highlighted to others exactly how out of line this guy is - but even after they remove him he will still live there and be a bully.

How can you protect yourself - know that you and your mom have rights and that there are others outside of the HOA that you can turn to (here on this board) and even through a local senior center or faith based group. Document what they do - writing it on this discussion group is fine or on your wall as there is a time stamp and you are free to share how you really feel about this - and know one day that the bully will finally burn up their friends. Gossip and have too much time on their hands is not the same thing as being a narcissist, bully or manipulator of people.

Take care and don't forget - if you feel they are really talking about you, you are safe here. You are not alone
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HOA is homeowners association. My job brings me in contact with HOAs, which usually have a board of directors who approve things. Sometimes, like many volunteer organizations, you have a couple board members who get on little power trips. Especially if they have a lot of free time. It's best to be pleasant, friendly, don't say anything you wouldn't to a total stranger.....think politician, saying words and seeming friendly and pleasant, which saying nothing.
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Cat---you are so right on. I am NOT looking for trouble. I tend to be kinda naive, innocent at times in that I think I am just having a nice sociable conversation with a neighbor who cares. But then I get bit in the behind later when I realize they had hidden agendas. ( Ex- I invited the mgr. over to get her birthday card and cake as it just was too much getting mom in her bathrobe, then the chair, etc. When she and her husband came over, they were all eyes, looking everywhere but at mom. I was stunned.) I can't fathom why they would want to cause trouble. Perhaps they just don't have anything to do, being retired, so this is a way to bring meaning into their life? I DO have people asking me about my finances as well since I don't have a paying job and they wonder how I am getting taken care of. What is an HOA? I DO know of some in the building that make up things, put a spin on whatever is said. I have learned to keep it very brief with them, but sometimes I do get ensnared anyway. Honestly, sometimes I get lonely (I'm being vulnerable here) and so I chat when I shouldn't. I think this is about control.......with them looking for an area to control me. I will have to re-think this.
And Linda22---love your answer. I smiled when I read that one. I think I will have to learn this..........
Thanks ladies. You're the best!!!
cadams
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cadams, just because someone asks a rude or personal question doesn't mean they are entitled to an answer, much less an honest one. Think of it as acting - you adopt a pleasant, superficially upbeat demeanor and play the game.
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Be very careful about flashing around a POA or discussing anything financial. Not only should you never give out too much info, showing a POA can be a disaster if it is an HOA. Understand that these people will outwit you because you are not looking for trouble - but often those who ask intrusive questions are. The question goes back to who is competent, is your mom still in charge if it's her home and she's on the deed, and the real question *why are you there*.....people can invent all manner of things and stir up trouble. Keep your legal documents and agreements you have w/ your mom private. Just stay firm polite and in control - anything else and they will find a way to mess with youj.
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Thanks jeannegibbs. Of course, you are right. I somehow lost perspective.... I just lost my way and couldn't quite figure my way out....which is why I reached out to you all to get me back on track.
You did just that............... Bless you.
cadams
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CADAMS - How totally inappropriate for neighbors, HOA or not. They wouldn't get a detail out of me with a crowbar. Every question does not automatically get an answer "just because".

You can say something like "I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about."
Or "well, I am a stickler for clean sheets. I just will not sleep on them more than once or twice before washing again. I bet Martha Stewart would be proud of me! ha ha ha ha ha ha! How often do you wash your sheets?"

Or "what on earth would lead you to believe that is an appropriate question?"
Or "what an odd question!" and then just walk away.
Or "are you looking for some product recommendations?"

Would any like it if you asked about their viagra prescription refills or how much wine they seem to be loading in on a Friday afternoon? Or if you said "Hey, I noticed Mrs. Such&Such coming out of your house late last night. Wink wink buddy! I know how it is you lucky dog!" The shoe can EASILY be on the other foot. I'm sure these nosy nobodies haven't thought about what their trash might reveal.

My policy is that there is no problem until somebody presents me with a properly documented form. They have a process they have to follow to pursue community problems.

How your mother toilets is none of their d*amned business. It is certainly not a community issue that affects others. How often you wash is irrelevant to anything contractual. What soap you use or if you air or machine dry is not important. Anybody with an interest in that is over a line unless they are a long term very close family friend who is only going to support you.
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What Jeanne said.

When people who know our situation ask about mom, I tell them she is stable, safe, and well cared for. I don't need to fully disclose the ugliness of life as a dementia patient and the total loss of dignity. Nobody wants to hear that in polite social discourse. I will sometimes say that she's not had any major changes good or bad, and that is just fine with me. If they want to know more, they'll ask.

When people on THIS SITE ask, those are the rare birds who can take the bald honest reality, who won't be shocked and avoid me from then on.

I explained "white lies" to my Asperger son who thinks VERY black & white, that lying is wrong when you intentionally say or do something to mislead someone, to cause them to come to harm, or to cover up your own wrong doing to avoid consequences.

OK: How are you? Fine. (They don't need to know about your horrible meeting and the diarrhea after lunch.)

Not OK: Did you steal that? No (If you really did steal it and you just don't want to get in trouble)

OK: Do you think I'm fat? No! (Don't intentionally hurt people's feelings.) Or just be more clever than a simple yes/no answer.

OK: When my mom asks me if her parents are OK and I say yes. She doesn't need to be reminded her parents died ages ago.

Not OK: Did you turn in your homework on time? Yes (even though you really didn't and you just want to tell me what you think I want to hear).
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cadams, you are not required to be totally honest and genuine with all people at all times. (The world would be totally chaotic if everyone followed that rule!) When people say "how are you" and you say "I'm fine," that is not lying, even if you are far from fine. It is just following a social convention. You are allowed (encouraged) to do that on your mother's behalf, too. And just as there are people who really are interested in your current status and with whom you want to let your hair down, you can be more candid about Mother with certain select people.
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I thought about my last response more......feeling like I am lying and being fake when I tell people "mom is doing great" when the reality doesn't quite match up to that. Perhaps, in some situations this is actually wisdom, especially with intrusive people. WIth those who really care, I think I can tell them the reality of the situation. I hope that makes sense to you all. Sorry if I offended anyone. I was just thinking out loud. I think I have lost some of my social skills being homebound so much. I appreciate you all alot. Thanks for listening.
cadams
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Thanks for all your suggestions. It helps put some perspective on things here.
I can see I need to totally dump looking , acting tired, overwhelmed, etc. to neighbors, the board staff and to certainly not express ANY of my fears, concerns to them and just keep that to myself. I have adopted instead the far better approach of just telling them how terrific mom is doing when they ask as I can see that most are just making conversation anyway as a way of being polite, though some are definitely looking for an edge to be controlling and take over. Gossip runs rampant here as well as tale spinning. I am most definitely going to the condo board meeting next week as there are some rule changes being discussed, so.....we'll see. Thanks tons.
cadams
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What is wrong with using the laundry daily? I don't suppose these ladies are offering to help, are they?
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I don't really believe the questions matter. If someone is not personally involved or they are looking to stir trouble it might just be best to just say thank you for caring or your concern and just walk away like you didn't understand their question.

I remember when I still had my parents home and my parents were in assisted living. The city would always try to find ways if the home was vacant by pulling inspections, etc. they wanted to fine me for vRious stupid things. My reply was that they are out of town. Really they were. When they came home to inspect meters etc shoes were still all over, dishes drying on the side. It was hysterical to watch them try to figure things out. The yard was always maintained, garage door opened. Sometimes you just have to keep your privacy for less headaches.
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(In Humanae Vitae by Pope John VI, sexual continence is addressed and Pope John Paul II wrote even more on continence. It's a Catholic use of the word "continence" that I am using, which many call chastity.)
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In response to the continence question with a shocked look on your face: "I did not know you were Catholic. My mother is certainly virtuous, and I am shocked you would question that at her age!"

My suspicion is that you have common washers and someone has the ickys about washing their clothes after poopy. Plus the control freaks want to charge you extra for the additional electricity and water used. My kids use the common condo washers for cloth diapers and no one has a problem with it in Boston, so someone is out of line, and it's not you.
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It's just none of their business. Period. And you should tell them so.
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Good idea about the POA and attending the meetings. No matter what they ask, reply 'mom's fine, thanks for asking'. If they don't get the hint after a couple of times, they must be dense. They really have no right to such personal information. As long as she is doing well, her needs are met then all is good. If they continue to ask you can reply that you are uncomfortable relaying such personal information and then state mom is doing well.
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I like looloo's answer about putting their concerns in writing and showing it to your attorney for review (even if you don't have an attorney, sometimes pretending is a useful tool). By the way, if she had owned the condo for about 30 years, isn't it like being in your own home? How do they even know about the laundry or even care how much of it you're doing? Sometimes you may even have to "play dumb" (i.e., oh really? I didn't know or I wasn't aware). You'd be amazed at how little it takes sometimes to get some nosey/bossy people to back off. Good luck with this, and I'm sorry that you and your mom have to go through all this. It's more important that you have a more enjoyable time with your mom while you can, and care for her without any other hassles. God bless you and your mom.
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The only answer is that you have things under control and then thank them for their inquiry. Nothing is worse than letting HOA busybodies get any information that is not required. Read up on the CC&R's - understand what the rules are and that will help you understand the intrusive questions are not part of their job, nor is it appropriate. At the same time, you don't want them to start a whispering campaign - sometimes all it takes is one person who likes to stir the pot to cause all kinds of trouble. Insofar as you and your mother's lives, she is entitled to age in place in her own home. Be pleasant and direct - don't challenge them. HOA boards are breeding grounds for bullies and fines are a way of filling the HOA coffers - give them no excuse and they'll look elsewhere for someone to intimidate.
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"Is your mother continent?"

"We're managing, thank you. Are you?"
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I would have mom give me a POA and I would take that with me to the next HOA meeting. In fact I would attend EVERY meeting, because you know darn well they are attempting to trash her at the meetings. If they ask about diapers, ask them what brand THEY use. Watch their jaws drop, LOL. Ask what meds THEY take, ask how long THEY have had Alzheimer's. Once they see you do this, they will run away when they see you coming....
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Or...how about...
"Would you be so kind as to put your concerns in writing, and our attorney will review it ;)..."
Actually, I'd hate for things to go this way, but wouldn't it be nice to stop 'em dead in their tracks!
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Do you really need to be gracious?

"Is your mother incontinent?"
"Why on earth would you ask just a personal question?"
or
"If she were, is that against the rules?"
or
"Thank you so much for your interest in Mom's health. Her doctor says she is doing well. Of course, I cannot reveal confidential information."
or
"We're doing just fine in the condo Mom has owned for three decades."
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To add - I've found that an icy stare while asking a terse "excuse me?" often makes people aware they've just said something not right. Then again, there have been the oblivious dumba**es who repeat it.
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"Why do you ask?" If they do have a good reason for asking, they'll tell you. And if they know they're out of line, hopefully they'll go away and mind their own business.
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I'd look at them a bit taken aback and ask why in the world they would be asking about such a personal matter.
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To answer your many questions......this is NOT a gated community. My mom has lived here and owned her condo for probably close to 30 yrs. This is a huge community of about 35 buildings ....each about 5 stories high. I have seen some of the board members try and influence others in the building.......in ways that appear to be overstepping their role (ex- if they don't like you, they watch you extra close and look for something, anything they can to come up with a rule for why you can't do something. For instance, a neighbors crippled son would leave his motorized wheelchair on the community porch outside her door. They didn't like that and wanted it moved. If they like you, they seem to close their eyes and let stuff go......) Seems to be all about power and control......
cadams
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Tell me some more about these condos.

Are they in a gated community or some sort of condo association that you pay a fee into? Is the board concerned about these condos as investments? Why would the board be so concerned about how often you are doing laundry? Does your mother actually own the condo or does the board really have the lost word about the condo? Do many other elderly people live in those condos? What sort of regulations does the board have for the use and treatment of the condos?

If these condos are more part of a business than actual privately owned residences, I can sort of see from a business perspective where they might not want one of their condos becoming a small sized nursing home.

I'm not sure what to suggest until we know more about the oversight of this condo board.
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