A clothes washer flood occurred at DHs aunts home on the 14th. I called her agent ASAP. Was given a name of a cleanup outfit to call. They wanted to come right out. One problem. I had a 95 yr old with dementia on hospice in a hospital bed that had to be removed before noisy equipment could be installed. Her bedroom is next door to the laundry room and got a lot of water. They had explained it would take 3-5 days to get the floors dry. That would be after they could get to the floors.
It took a minute to find a place and have her and her hospice equipment moved.
I’m supposed to meet with the adjuster Wednesday. He was upset they didn’t get started earlier. I thought we were doing pretty good. From the get go I was upfront that we had to protect the 95 yr old. He seems stumped on how he will manage the hospice ALF living expenses. Says he has never had a hospice patient before as a client. He hadn’t said he wouldn’t cover but he couldn’t turn her ALF over to the portion of his company that manages the alternate living arrangements. He had them call me for info on the hotel DH and I moved into after we got aunt moved. The odor is horrible and getting worse each day.
Since aunt lives in a coastal area where weather events occur each year, I found it hard to understand that she would be the first hospice patient this agency had encountered. Regardless of what they decide, I did the only thing I knew to do which was focus on getting her to a safe place.
The last time she had damage was 16 years ago. She’s had some small things happen but they’ve always been below her deductible.
So I am wondering has anyone else had to deal with home owners insurance while your LO was on hospice?
Hospice will cover about 1 week of Respite for Hospice patients, this is covered by Medicare, Medicaid as well as most other insurance.
Today I talked to a retired sales person from a competitor insurance company and she said for her company the issue would have been paying for two different housing facilities for the AHE (additional housing expenses). She said that they try to match the space they provide to the space you are paying insurance for. I basically had an ALF set up in her house. Hard to duplicate in a hotel room. We can’t do our job for aunt if we go to our own home which is 2 hours away. I spent most of today overseeing packing up aunts home and getting plumbers in when they ran into problems disconnecting appliances. Demo starts tomorrow. I can’t afford to look away.
Thanks for the reply.
I've read your post twice, and am wondering if I'm missing something, or if the issue of an ALF is the challenge. If your mother wasn't on hospice and/or if this happened to someone who was mobile, I believe the insurance company would just find alternate living arrangements.
I've never been through this serious an issue, so I'm not sure about alternatives, but if I remember correctly my policy includes options for temporary relocation if the house is too damaged for habitation. I don't recall how long that would last. But that may be my policy terms, and b/c I paid for it in the premiums.
This I think might be helpful: factor out the hospice issue just to get a different perspective, and ask what they would provide for if hospice weren't involved. You might also ask your hospice coordinator if they have arrangements with other hospices for temporary residence while a home is being repaired.
I really hope you can some good news tomorrow; this must be such a challenge.
Good luck!
Thanks for replying. Yes I did look for alternative housing. I looked at VRBO which was mostly resort type homes that were large enough but primarily upstairs on a beach that would require an elevator to get aunt inside and hospice care coming in from a distance. Too overwhelming to contemplate. Plus too far away for daily oversight of the home repairs. The primary reason I included hospice to the insurance company was to explain why I couldn’t just load her up and drive her to a hotel and be out of the home overnight and allow them to move their equipment in.
The homes I found on MLS were annual rentals and even those were very limited. I am worn down from the situation and more or less resigned to accept that if the Home owners insurance doesn’t pay, I will accept that aunt must. I was so concerned that I just didn’t have all the info I needed to make the best decisions for her pocket book. Now I’m just thankful that she has been so accepting and am trying to shift my focus to getting the flooring on order so it can arrive sooner rather than later.
The ex-agent I spoke to today explained that the insurance co isn’t responsible for health issues. I’m wondering now if I should have asked for some kind of insurance coverage for a handicapped person?? Or..even if there is such a thing?
I had to move her last year during a hurricane evacuation but she was able to walk with her rollator and not yet on hospice. I have to admit, she rises to the occasion, dementia or not.
Thanks for helping me reframe the situation. If the home owners is not going to pay, I need to see what alternatives there are to the $4k per month I am prepared to pay for her room and board. I need to nail the adjuster down on whether they will pay and go from there. It really helps to discuss this. I am trying to see the brighter side and realize that she is fortunate to have options.
On the forum it is often suggested that we use a therapeutic fib of a needed home repair to get the elder to move. It wasn’t a fib but it worked. I received no push back on the need to move her from her home.
- what is reasonable alternative living time? 2 days water shut off to entire house (no toilets so cannot live there), 3 days demo / clean up, 5 days dri-in, 5/7 days sheet rock & paint & flooring, 2 days reset. Insurance puts on 3 weekends and you get roughly 3 1/2 weeks of alternative living reimbursement.
Adjusters tend to use the federal (GSA) rate for lodging & for meals and incidental expenses (M&IE). Both figures vary by state & sometimes by city as well. M&IE tend to be $60 day, hotel abt $100.
So around 3 1/2 weeks at $160 day
Insurance will totally have issues with reimbursement of AL rent vs. staying @ Comfort Suites for her. Please read over her policy, I bet it reads that accommodations need to be a hotel or a short term room rental in a private home. They might be ok on paying the standard lodging / M&IE and Auntie pays the overage. I’d try to sell that concept when you talk with insurance again. Insurance may pay for 2 hotel rooms for her & for you/hubs if u can show you were also displaced. But may not if you have your own home to live in and that home is on your license or you have a homestead exemption on it. I don’t think the adjuster was stumped, I think he was more flummoxed as to how to respond without saying something that might sound rude.
If there is another insurer that can pay for coverage, HO will want details on that. They won’t pay twice. Her HO insurance may want documentation from Medicare that MediCARE paid only 5 days respite room & board but not beyond that.
Btw Hospice can be done in a hotel room. My late mil NH went enmasse by buses to Houston for Katrina and set up at a hotel. A Houston area hospice group came in and continued the MediCARE covered care plan for those on hospice.
It may just be that this may be the point in time to have hubs 95 yr old Aunt consider moving into a AL or a NH. This is the Aunt with the thyroid problem, right? She has dementia and is very challenged to do her medS, isn’t it? She was ok on a rollarator last year but now is way more bedfast, is that what’s happening? Was the washer incident sheer bad luck / old plumbing or did she do something wrong? Have there been any other incidents? Is she able to get up out of her hospital bed on her own? If there was a fire alarm going off could she realize it and get herself outside on her own? Or it is that you & hubs are staying there as she needs 24/7 oversight? Maybe this is the opportunity to have her transition to a facility. I’d ask the AL what her needs assessment is looking like…. By that I mean is she a better candidate to stay in AL or is she more best for NH?
Good luck with getting the house all fixed up & coming to terms with decisions.
if you want to do full Sheetrock or more coats of paint, it’s on you to pay the difference. If this Sheetrock game is happening well Personally I would do full wall as it looks like crap if it’s sections unless you can do a chair rail on the entire room based on the damaged walls Sheetrock joint line. Otherwise it will be obvious when that house goes to sell…. Water damaged homes might be a harder sell. I just wrapped up our Hurricane Zeta claim last mo & we very fortunately got like 4 extensions & got almost all our recoverable depreciation. But it was exhausting dealing with. I don’t think I’d be able to be a pit bullie on an insurance claim AND deal with LTC crisis at the same time. Give some thoughts as to how to best expend your time & energy & Aunties wallet.
Another thought, although perhaps far fetched, is to rent a home that's been adapted for aged living, and rent by the month just until her home is fixed. We used to rent out a summer cottage we bought, then Dad remodeled and fixed it up for year round living.
I don't know which state you're living in, but if it's a Southern state, or an area with summer rentals, that might be an option, but if the house isn't winterized it wouldn't be.
I don't know either whether or not there's a specific rental market for homes retrofitted for aging folks. That might be something an entrepreneur might consider, but then the flippers would find a way to capitalize on it.
Real estate companies might be another option; some of them may be involved in rentals. Winter Texans and Floridians might also be an option, but I'm not sure how to locate them specifically.
If I can think of any other options, I'll post back again.
Igloo, your comments on sheetrock made me smile. I live in an area of old homes. My walls are plaster, no drywall, no sheetrock, just all plaster. I wonder how easily (or not) I'll be able to find someone who still knows how to plaster walls when I have mine repaired.
Thank you so much for the support. It has really helped.
Good/bad news tonight. Mold on PANELING. Will not be replacing with more paneling. Is it still available? A therapeutic fib for aunt. No longer available. Not sure how that helps aunt but I’m ready for the paneling to go.
Yes, the drywall is being cut out two feet up but it is in laundry room so imperfections hopefully not as visible. But I will certainly watch for any imperfections. If drywall repair is required in other spaces, I’ll be forewarned. Thanks for that.
GardenArtist many plaster folks in New Mexico. Maybe other areas? I love the plaster. Hopefully if you need repairs, you’ll find the right person.
Today I had to meet a plumber at 8 to replace valves where appliances were removed yesterday. Tonight I learn the kitchen sink valve is leaking. They removed cabinets in the kitchen today. When they remove an appliance, it seems the valve will spring a leak. I should have waited until all demo was complete before calling in the plumber. Seems obvious now. House was built in late 70s so some valves have been there awhile.
700 gallons of water flowed through according to the water department. I’m pretty sure caused by a medline under pad that instead of submerging into the wash, formed a cup and caught the incoming water and poured it out instead of into the washer. If into the washer then the tub would have registered full and water shut off. It did not. Kept pouring out the water. A good endorsement for medline pads being “water” proof I suppose A cautionary tale for those of us doing incontinence laundry.
Had a nice chat with the adjuster. Turns out he thought the $160 per day for aunts ALF was a good deal. He said keep turning in the 14 day bills. No problem. So the total for the three of us about $300 per day. No one has asked for proof of residency but my DL shows aunts address for years. The straight talk from you guys and the retired insurance rep helped me realize things weren’t so bad. He assured me the contractor we had was a good one and while we had freedom to choose, he felt this was a good guy for aunts area. We shall see. His main concern was the inability to start the dry out sooner. I understand. I just couldn’t get aunt moved any sooner. I was pretty stunned with it all but did try for a full day to find us a place in a home or hotel.
About aunts health. She can feed herself. That is about it. She would probably qualify for the NH. We will file for VA benefits and add that to her SSI and add savings. She could make it financially in an ALF for a few years. The one she is in currently will keep her unless she required a feeding tube (not on her bucket list) or should she develop bed sores. Currently she is good on that but I know that could change. I think I need to check out the NH sooner rather than later. In 90 days she might be less aware of having been moved. Will just have to see how DH and I are dealing with all of this at that point.
No. She could not self evacuate with a fire. Nor could we move her. 911 would have to assist. So we are on guard 24/7. Another issue is her 81 yr old care giver. We don’t want to let her go nor her evening aide who is battling breast cancer. She’s already had her mastectomy and is on second round of chemo but they really enjoy one another’s company and get the job done, for now. Again, all could change in a twinkling.
I am feeling on much firmer footing tonight. A bit worn down yet understanding her benefits are being acknowledged. . This last renewal I learned that for a slightly higher premium she could get a reduced deductible and because she hasn’t had a claim in a long time, she had earned a discount. This all led to a lower deductible for this claim. I’m sure she will be hit with a higher premium for the next few years.
Thanks again for the help.
My father installed a lot of paneling in his house, but I don't recall that it's ever been moldy. So I can't offer any insights on this, but I do agree that it should go. Once mold starts, there's no way of telling how far it can spread.
Maybe someone from New Mexico could come and fix my wet plaster??? I will check; my repair list is so long I almost dread tackling it. I think a handyman might be more likely than a company; I think the latter often like to streamline work so they can get it done more quickly.
If it's any consolation, I discovered a leak from a bathroom sink faucet, well after it had damaged the interior of the sink. When I opened the doors, I saw dark stains, removed everything and discovered the whole floor was wet, as were most of the sides. Eventually I found the leak and put a collection pail to contain it while I dry out the interior.
But I think it would be safer in the long run to replace the sink. My former plumber told me it was made well, with latches that he said were European and high qualify. So I'll take the latches off and keep them for the "someday" even when I learn woodworking enough to use them.
Unfortunately, the owner of that plumbing service has retired, so now I have to find someone else in whom I can develop the confidence I had in that service for over 3 decades.
I also applaud your courage for sticking it out and researching the options.
I hope you're getting some downtime for yourself? These kinds of house damages are emotionally draining.
1970’s started paneling sheets being made of composite material so have fillers and will wick in water. They are like those flat dry sponges you can buy that once water sucks in they puff up to be regular sponges. Personally the old paneling I’d clean & teak (marine grade) oil and replace baseboards; but the composite paneling, I’d 86 all of them. Mold is beyond clever in finding places to burrow & be lurking.
Imo if anyone had Sheetrock done during the Chinese drywall period, it may have seemed just fine for years BUT if it’s gotten water damage, it really needs to be removed as it’ll activate the ability for mold & wiring problems. The Chinese were not treated correctly. A ton put into homes 2001-2008/9 and most not replaced.
If she is doing reasonably well at this ALF, and funds are available (especially by adding VA benefit), then having her remain there as her residence may make the most sense.
Any elder who is put through that level of change/stress/disruption experiences some additional decline that would not have happened at home.
Going back home has a high risk of not working out, and ending up in nursing home for 'rehab' that becomes residential care.
SNF more expensive and much institutional than ALF.
Paying for her current caregivers to visit her on a schedule (shorter shifts) so they can engage her socially and emotionally will improve quality of life for her.
At her age and hospice eligibility, her expected life span may only be a year or so. She is very lucky to have you and your DH looking out for her. You are doing a great job.
Yes, Garden Artist
I am…Emotionally drained. Yesterday I threatened to drive to my home a couple of hours away just to do laundry, I was that tired. Instead I turned in early.
Igloo,
Even though the paneling appeared to be a good quality, it’s gone. Anyone who misses it can sit in the garage as the garage is also lined with it. The not bad wall paper and the horrible popcorn ceiling will soon be a thing of the past.
The real win on this situation has been that aunt has embraced the change to the ALF wholeheartedly. She still expects to be going home but could make a commercial for the facility she is so happy with them. That’s her thread of conversation these days, how attentive everyone is, how great the food is, etc. And they do appear to be all that and more. A nice surprise. What I notice is how much good it has done her to have a change of routine and environment. She isn’t taking part in the festivities but they are hopeful she will. I’m like all the others on the forum at this time of year, thinking about holiday traditions and wondering how she will fare through the holidays. But so far things are going well and her private caregivers are doing their best to help her acclimate.
The insurance adjuster finally buckled down and got her claim processed. 5 o’clock on Friday before he left for a three week vacation I got his call. The adjuster is wound so tight I’ll be surprised if he can sit still for a flight. I’ll probably see him on the news. I think I might be in a little better shape than him, but not much.
We are meeting with a contractor who has “ties to the community” on Monday. He has given us a bid that seems inline with the adjusters formula for what it costs to make the needed repairs. He has done remodels on several homes in aunts community. We are trying to keep the choices for replacement materials in line with the budget and availability of product. Plus the portion of the home that did not get water damage has to be addressed as well. That would be nice to have done at the same time but a lot of additional cost for Aunt with no insurance funds to help pay.
It is the perfect transition for aunt to stay in facility care although I believe if she had a younger, fresher POA than me, she could make it fine at home.
I don’t think 700 gallons of water would have gone unnoticed a few years ago. So it’s past time for me to delegate more and more. As there is no heir apparent, I’m afraid that leaves ALF and on to NH when/if the ALF can no longer manage. There reaches a point when we have to realize that a 95 yr old with dementia probably shouldn’t be driving the bus. As the Stones say, we don’t always get what we want but in aunts case, she’s enjoying the change. She’s always been a happy, people person so dementia has not robbed her of that.
Thank you for your kind words.
I'm really glad the solutions are working out, and thanks again for sharing.
Remember there is a deductible and recoverable depreciation. The recoverable depreciation is a bit of a beast to get thru…. I wrapped ours from H. Zeta end of Sept, yeah took almost a year, mainly due to getting local workers. Hopefully that’s not an issue for where you are. If the home is real old, recoverable maybe nil.
I’m assuming the new plan is house 2 b sold. Please Don’t splurge on fixtures (esp anything sink or toilet). Just new & fresh. The buyers are likely gonna want to replace & redesign no matter how cute you get it looking. Clean & fresh paint & declutter. Really recommend in every room do the same plug in fragrance. Plus a reason to go to Bath&Body Works & use their coupons that clutter our mailbox & in-box