How do I manage 90 yr old FIL expectations regarding running errands?

Your FIL thinks that you are his errand boy and this is why he wants you to be at his beck and call. It’s time for FIL to realize that you have a life of your own and you cannot be at his beck and call. Tell your FIL to write a list of all the items he needs to purchase and you will take him to the grocery store once a week to buy the items on his list. Tell your FIL that if he does not abide by your rule of taking him to the grocery store once a week since you have your own errands to do, then he can order his groceries online through DoorDash or Instacart.

Just say “NO!” Why is this even a serious question? Let his silly calls go straight to voicemail, and let your husband deal with it. Or inform the old coot that there is a marvelous modern invention called “delivery service.” If he wants to pay for that, well, he can sign right up. Sounds to me as if you have spoiled him. That needs to stop!

'Mission Creep' is what this is.

Had this with one LO..
One ride & back to a regular event. Then the add-ons..
+ home tidy up
+ rubbish out
+ help with dressing & footwear
+ outing
+ errands on way home eg post office or groceries, hints for lunch or even another appointment booked withon 1 hour.

Boundaries.
One trip was my offer.
Arrange all 'that' from others.

Now.. has multiple aides for homecleaning, personal tasks & transport.

LO's needs are met.
I am no longer overburdened & resentful.

I completely understand. I do find that my own Mother expects everyone to jump to her demands. I would stick with one day a week for grocery and medication runs when possible. I do feel that a lot of their demanding expectations are because of their generation. There are too many similar complaints. I would definitely use as many trusted delivery services as possible. Too, I believe loneliness is a big issue. My Sisters MIL is 95, and does fine if someone picks her up every afternoon to head to the pub for some wine. She doesn’t want to be alone for very long during the day. They hired a caregiver from 11am-3pm-Monday through Friday, and then one of her three children take turns getting her out most days in the afternoon and weekends. She’s very content now. Not everyone can have it so good! If they would be open to using zoom or FaceTime and talking to friends and family, I think that it would help combat the loneliness some. Most don’t like using computers. FIL might do good with adult day care if one is available and can pick him up a couple of times a week. All the best in keeping him happy.

Stick to your decision of how often you will take him shopping. Ask other family members, neighbors, members of faith community to take him out for "short errand runs" on other days of the week. If others will visit him on a weekly basis so he has a visitor for most days of the week, he will get his "shopping needs" met as well as his socialization needs met (the reason he is mad at you).

You've set the availability that you can manage so let your FIL deal with it. If he gives you the silent treatment, then so be it.

Honestly, these elderly (my own mother included here) and their demands is majorly annoying. Instead of being grateful for the help and care that they need and are receiving, they dig in their heels and refuse to conform to the limitations of their condition.

I'm 64 years old and I can't leave my home for days at a time because I don't have sitters every day. It might be 4-5 days between trips out - it doesn't matter what I may "want" or "need" to do - I have to wait.

I'm sure that we could make a sad list here of all of the freedoms and desires that care-slaves (yes, that's how I am now referring to myself) have to give up in order to provide care to a LO.

Therefore, I have very little time for pouting and petulant elders who don't get their way.

Peace.

Order groceries online and have them delivered to his home. I have used this option for myself whenever I was ill with the flu. It works like a charm...you may have to pay more but it is worth it.

Dont feel terrible. Tell him it's not you, but the gas prices are out of control right now. We can no longer run out to pick up 1-2 items and multiple stores and trips. We must conserve. He will have to buy 1-2- extra items as back up, so he won't run out of the staples. It is available when needed.
I think he wants to go out, to be out. It gives him something to do. A social event, to chat with you, a ride in the car, something to look forward to, and look at selections in stores.

My dad could spend 2 hrs in a drug store, looking at every item. He even involved staff to explain items to him. One even looked at me like help me. So I told him she must get back to work. So trips are social excursions. Its probably the only outlet they have if they dont go to church. Other than doc appts.
He's not going to say I'm lonely, watching TV 24/7 bored out of my mind. He might think family will come over if I need an item, as an excuse to get you to spend time with him.

If you suggest picking up 2 of that item, see what he says. If he gets mad, Its the outing he craves. It gives him a focus, something to do, and have fun. He'll get over being mad when he wants to go out again.
I'd blame the gas prices. Perhaps calling more would alleviate loneliness? Or getting a person to visit? High school and college age kids can spend a few hours and chat and cook him a meal. They can put that on a college aplication.
Or maybe setting up a meal date to be social. Have it at a regular day/time. Tell him to think of a recipe or something he can look foward to eating. Probably looks like another chore, but he won't be around forever. I feel bad I didn't spend more time with my family. I let life get in the way. I told my husb to go over 1x a week to take his mom out, have lunch, and do a chore around the house. She wasnt eating, loosing weight and had other issues. And now she does. I told him I regretted not spending more time with my family, and now its to late. He agreed he calls more, and get his brothers to do that too. She now has that to look foward to at a specific times. And he not just showing up for doc transport. That isnt fun. She's doing much better now. Good luck.

Mich56: Your FIL is a fortunate man with you taking him grocery shopping. He will have to opt for a ride share, Uber or Lyft if he desires to go daily.

My mother, who chose to live alone many states away from me, used her town's senior center transportation van for WEEKLY grocery trips.

Make a Boundary once a week for 2 hours unless it’s a medication .

I take it he doesn't live near a bus line? If he did and could use the bus, he could plan his trips to the store that way (and get good exercise to boot,,)

My guess is that when FIL finds out that you haven’t caved, his next step will be to start complaining about you to his son, your DH. And you say that DH’s response to him is usually ““yes dad anything you say”. So you could quite easily have both FIL and DH pressing you to compromise.

I’d suggest that you get DH to run FIL’s extra errands. You don’t want to do this, but if the pressure starts on you, you need DH to find out for himself just how unreasonable it is for FIL to expect this from you. DH might ask for FIL’s credit card for the fuel as well. At least think about this, and be watchful if the pressure on you starts coming both ways.

It isn't a matter of who is wrong - or right.

I feel it is a combination of boundary setting and compassion, i.e., his need with your availability - and more.

* It is understandable that he will 'naturally' want what he is used to or certainly more than less than what he's used to. It is good that he voices his needs and this needs to be acknowledged so he knows he is heard.

* Do not argue.

He will want to convince you to do what he wants so when you say "I can take you out once a week," he will have a retort immediately "No, I want ... " When he does this, say "I hear you saying XXX " then stop. Do not get into that maze. It only adds emotional upset / upheaval to an already sensitive issue - he is changing / losing independence and this requires that 'everyone' adjusts as needed. However, he needs to fit within your availability to help him out - and that won't be easy for him. He won't like it. AND, SEE BELOW. If you can arrange a visitor(s) during the week, you can let him know that he won't be alone ... someone 'lovely' person will take him out to xxx" -

* It is important that you 'check' yourself emotionally and psychologically. Do not get into a guilt trip or the "I shoulds" - this will not serve you nor him. Feel / learn to feel confident in what you can and cannot do.

- Once you make your decisions, stick to them. He will / may try to break you down. If you need breaks to regroup, do that. He will need structure. So much depends on his - and your - emotional makeup / history / self-esteem, and, of course, his mental state re dementia (if this is part of the picture).

- Understand that this is confusing and new for you. You may feel bad due to exhaustion and no time to do what you'd want / like to do (I certainly went through it - it is an awful feeling - knowing how lonely someone is ... depending on YOU ... and exhausted). You do the best you can. Period. No beating yourself up.

* From what I read, he is lonely. The going to the store for a carton of milk is a cry for companionship and company, and some change of scenery. This is important to address.

IMPORTANT: SOCIALIZATION VISITOR(S)_____________________

* If no other family member available or if then cannot assist, get some one else in to be with him. Consider hiring someone during the week to take him out for a couple of hours.

* Socialization visitor / caregiver in at least once a week for that mid-week visit / outing. More as you / he can afford.

* If money is an issue, get volunteers (I did this and it worked out beautifully - 2 or 3 during the week and my 3-4 visits/week). I had 6 days covered which was ideal - with some very dedicated volunteers. My friend/companion was bedridden in a nursing home. These visits were his LIFE line.

* If not a volunteer agency for supporting elders, try a college. Contact Dept heads: nursing, social work or geriatric dept. Some students will (or should have) experience in these areas and it will be good for them.

Work with whoever you hire / find to visit:
- Share some of his life history - work - hobbies - interests
- tell them to ask open ended questions vs the 'yes' or 'no' response questions.
- important to smile
- As touch is appropriate and responded to, perhaps hold his hand or give him pats on the back, if not a gentle shoulder massage.

Thank you for asking. Let us know how it goes.

Gena / Touch Matters

I would start with your husband. FIL is obviously using these shopping trips as something to do to alleviate boredom. And he sees you as someone who has nothing more important to do than entertain him. Your husband also doesn’t respect your time or he’d put a stop to it. I guess he’s okay with it as long as he doesn’t have to do it (perhaps he prefers working more hours to catering to an elderly, demanding father?). This isn’t fair to you. You are working and have your own mom to take care of. I’ll bet most of the household work falls on you as well.

My husband was 100% in charge of his mom’s needs, both before and after he retired. She had cancer and vision problems, so there was a lot of necessary running around. I don’t think she ever asked to go shopping more than once a week and she often combined a trip to the store with a doctor appointment if she was up to it. Any help I gave him was freely volunteered and gratefully acknowledged. If FIL is like most older men the only chance of his accepting any boundaries is if you and husband are on the same page. So you will need to make him understand the score: If he doesn’t want to service dad’s whims personally, he’ll need to lay down the law and maybe grow a thicker skin when the pouting starts.

You are not a victim, but rather a manipulated volunteer.

Make a list of transporters and leave it on the fridge for him to call at his command (Care.com, Lyft, Uber, local cab service). Give him the name and number of pharmacies that will deliver or have the Care.com person pick them up for him. Some grocery stores deliver.

Now, you have time for a mani-pedi!

Our township has a senior bus that picks up, drops off for an approximate time and picks up & takes home. I've seen people with walkers & canes shopping. The driver is really helpful. See if your township has something like this. Good luck!

I want to address the volunteer thing. This is usually provided to help get people to appts. Yes, it can be used for shopping. I have done this but, I don't want to do it every day. I was helping a family. In one month, I was taking someone somewhere 3x a week. My DH, we're retired. But thats not how I wanted to spend my retirement. Your FIL is ridiculous thinking that anyone should take him shopping daily.

ELizabeth, I never thought of my Mom as a burden. But then she did not expect me to be at her beck and call. Like this FIL, too many parents have expectations that no way can their children meet. They don't like change. But when your getting up there, there will be changes and they have to except them. Their children are not the answer. My mantra is "I am here to help people find a way, not be the way". Meaning that parents have to except the help given them. If children can't or won't give that help, then the parent needs to find options. If their help makes it so staying home is not possible, then they need to go into an AL or home without making children feel guilty. If they can't afford to have their lawn mowed and upkeep to the house, then they downsize to an apartment. Boundries only need to be set when parents will not compromise. When they feel it has to be their way. I had no problem with my Mom. She excepted shopping one day a week. She excepted that I worked. She never asked my DH to mow her lawn. She paid someone. She had no expectations and appreciated the time she got. And because she had no expectations, I didn't mind doing for her. She knew if she needed anything call me at work and I'd pick it up on the way home. There has to be compromise in a parent/child relationship. This is what I can do, this is what I can't do and this is what I won't do.

Mich56,
I began to have this same issue with my father. He knew my regular day to run errands for him was Saturday but as you mentioned, if it was for medication, I would go anytime. He started wanting me to go to the store almost daily or after I’d been to his house and asked if he needed anything, he’d say no.. and as soon as I got back home, he’d call and want me to go get takeout or etc. I had to start telling him if it could wait, it would have to because I was running around all the time. I suggest setting a regular day and trying your best to stick to it unless it’s a necessity.

You can often get groceries delivered by setting up accounts at a favorite store (they often contract out to Doordash or Instacart). Or you can set up a delivery account for one of these: DoorDash/InstaCart/Uber/GrubHub, using his card. Instacart might be the best for groceries/convenience items, but I'm not positive.
You could also set him up with an Uber for trips, if he could manage that.

You can still offer your one regular errand trip a week, but for other days maybe you can help him find resources for other days. Senior service or church group volunteers might take him to a store once every week or two. It won't be every day. If he wants more frequent rides than can be arranged through volunteer services, he will have to hire a taxi or a ride share or a driver

I still do most of my own errands and other basics, but reading these comments makes me realize--even more than I already did--that old people can be a HUGE BURDEN on their families. To be honest I would rather have made my Final Exit about 6 years ago when I was "only" 80, but guess what? I didn't. I'm truly hoping that I will do so before I end up being the oversized burden so many elders become. Eldercare in 21st America is often a bad joke unless there's a LOT of money.

You need to let him sit with it. Please do both you and FIL a favor and don’t give in. So many problems begin and grow when we aren’t honest with the amount of free time we have to offer. It’s not up for debate. It’s your good nature that even allows it at all. it’s also your responsibility to take yourself out of the equation.

And, studies have been done, see attached link, that show that these minor stressors will show up in our future to attack our mental health. the future is now.

Do let DH find an alternative mode of transportation for his father. It will take both of them a bit out of their comfort zone but that’s okay. Any angst needs to be between the two of them. You are caught in the middle. Remove yourself.

FIL will be a happier person when he is grateful instead of pouting. growing pains are a bit uncomfortable so you just patiently wait for him to adjust his attitude.

And gently I suggest that you allow his son to help him with his errands. When you get home from work do you sit and wait for DH to come home and make you dinner? Does he put a load of laundry on or run the vacuum? How about the clean up after dinner? So do you truly have more time or is it that you are just accustomed to pitching in for everyone and YOU are just trying to fold in one more chore? Why YOU?

When FIL was your age what was he doing? Was he worrying about how often he got his FIL to the grocery?

Caregivers make a huge mistake by not giving serious thought to what lies ahead and pacing themselves. As you mentioned, you already have your job and your mom. And please know that it is the psychological wear and tear that gets to us just as much, if not more, than the actual chore itself. The very level of expectation you are trying to manage with your FIL is what wears us down. He sounds spoiled and again, I’m sorry to say this but that’s on you. Stop it.

You wrote “Obviously I can take him out more than once a week for immediate pick ups like meds that can’t wait”. This is the ONLY reason you should consider even once a week. And why are you taking him to pick up the meds? They can be delivered. DH can pick them up without him.

This one little phrase speaks volumes to me. He thinks he needs to manage his own money is what I’m reading between the lines.
And I’m sure you could care less except for the aggravation of it all. An emergency is you or DH in the hospital. Picking up meds on command is not an emergency. Stop doing that to yourself.

You need to really spend some time on this forum to help you adjust your attitude. You found this site, you posted under Burnout, Family Caregiver and Driving. Yup. You are past due for a major reorganization of YOUR life. Not FIL life, if he is so smart he can organize it all himself.
I’d let him pout and I’d let him know when asked thats it’s once every two weeks now.
Mess with you again and once a month can be arranged.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654031/

BOUNDARIES
You have set the "ground rules" if he is going to depend on you for transportation then he has to accept that limitation.
Can he call a cab, Uber or other ride share? Are there friends or volunteer organizations that might take him once in a while?
Let me let you in on a little secret....
He goes to different stores because he is lonely and walking around the store and seeing the employees that probably know him makes him comfortable. Trust me if he does not show up for a few days they will notice and ask how he is. It is also a form of exercise, walking around the store a few times is safer than walking around the block or in the park. (floor is even, he has a cart to help support him and if he falls there are people to help him)

Can you manage 2 days "shopping" with him? If so you could pick a Monday and a Thursday (or schedule when your stores have the start of sales and then the last day of the sale.)
And...is is possible that your husband can do one of the "shopping" days? I hope he is helping out with the care of his dad.

My grandfather was just like this! He would buy things to last a day or two and then back to the store. It was a fun outing for him, I guess.

After his dementia kicked in and he stopped driving, we didn’t take him to the store much at all. He was almost blind and leaving the house was too disorienting for him.

But yeah, multiple store trips like that are not feasible.

No is a complete sentence, my step-father would shop on Amazon Daily buy duplicates and duplicates of the same thing. He did it because he was bored. Gave him something to do.

What he is used to no longer matters and your husband should be doing this, not you. It is his father.

Or, he can Uber.

AL would solve many of his wants & needs. He is spoiled like so many old men are, they are all about their wants & needs, they could care less about anyone else.

Stand firm. Once a week is more than adequate.

My limit would also be once a week. I would hold firm.

"I am sorry you can't drive.
But my offer is once a week to the store. Maybe I can help you think of solutions for the other days?
Eg You may need to hire an Aide for a 2nd day a week".

My LO started going to the shops more frequently. The weekly organised list gone. I noticed slippage of memory & planning skills - buying just 1 packet of this, 2 cans of that. Then back to the shops next day..

Now want to be taken to visit shops many days. Boredom? Loneliness? Hmm

It's a shame your Dad doesn't live in a village, where he could walk. The elders walked down to their local High Street in every area of London & Europe when I lived there. Here too, but only inner city/suburban. The outer areas need cars to get to big shopping centres.

Actually, those Assisted Living places are like villages.. just a little stroll to the coffee shop, the hairdresser/barber, the bowling green or newspaper reading room. Just saying..😜

Perhaps your mother could talk to your FIL so she could advise him what is reasonable :-)

I think the only thing that will work is one day a week he goes to the store. No compromise. He has to go when she can otherwise he uses other transportation. He is being unreasonable. His life is changing and he has to change with it. Also, your DH should be doing for Dad. I understand that he works longer hours but there is the weekend. He needs to be there for Dad too.

My mantra...I am here to help people find the way, not be the way.

Oh gosh, what a pain. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this situation.

After my dad died I drove to my mother’s house on the weekend to take her grocery shopping. She wouldn’t have ever expected me to take off work or go on a weekday.

When my mother in law became sick with cancer I offered to help with her mom’s shopping.

Oh my gosh, my husband’s grandmother was a very demanding woman! I had to nip that situation in the bud immediately! I set strong boundaries and didn’t budge from them. Otherwise, she would have tried to run me ragged!

Council on Aging in our area has a shuttle bus that takes seniors to the grocery, pharmacy, doctor appointments, etc. They will assist people with canes, walkers and wheelchairs.

Another option would be delivery service. I like Shipt. There’s also instacart. Some stores deliver groceries as well, Target, Walmart, etc.

Best wishes to you and your family.

I don’t think there is any reason to compromise on this, but just in case you want one… You could suggest that FIL takes a taxi to the store, and you pick him up from a particular place in the car park at a time you have agreed. He can enjoy his ‘outing’ on his own. If he is early, he waits. If he is late, he gets a taxi home. And he doesn't need to come when you pick up meds.

At least it's an alternative to 'No'.