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I'm 63, married, with grown kids living away from home, and an unexpected and reluctant caregiver for my 86-year old mother. She and her 13-year old untrained dog (who pees in my house) moved in with my husband and me from another state after a health crisis in May 2022. Trying to figure out where boundaries need to be, how to respond to my mother's demands, navigate caregiving with a very demanding full-time job, and take her to/from endless doctor visits. She has advanced COPD, colon cancer, and breast cancer, all diagnosed just before or after she moved in with us, due in large part to her avoiding appropriate health care and healthy living for the last 20 years. Although I don't doubt that she has physical limitations, each disease is being well managed with medicine and, according to doctors, “won’t kill her.”



She was a recluse for almost 20 years after my (wonderful) dad died, not allowing anyone in her house. When she had a health crisis in May, I was finally able to enter her house. It was a hoarding situation with pet and human waste. She is still a slob, and turning her room in our house into another hoarding situation.



She won’t get out of bed except to go to the bathroom. I think it’s mainly a show to justify being waited on every waking minute. For example, she “requests” that I provide very specific food (like 4-course meals that we never prepare for ourselves) at very specific times. She demands a response to her requests immediately (within 2 minutes or she starts texting me "did you receive my text," "where are you," "what are you doing--I need you now," etc.).



I'm a Christ follower who passionately believes in "honoring my mother and father", yet can't reconcile that with the demands placed on me by someone who claims they want to be independent, but lies in bed all day doing nothing to help herself at all.



Although she is relatively pleasant now (she says all she wants is "peace"), she was a toxic mother in my childhood and adulthood, and I fear that if I try to set boundaries, her old self will re-appear.

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I don't know she sounds pretty toxic to me. I would start by ending these 4 course meals. Its a shame how many adult children are being taken advantage of by their parents because of some religious mandates. Your 60 its time to stand up to your mother and set some boundaries in your home. Momma doesn't get to make the rules anymore.

And if the colon cancer, breast cancer and COPD isn't going to kill her according to the doctor then what will? Is she Michael Myers, Freddie Kreuger and Jason Voorhees all rolled onto one?
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aspires2b Oct 2022
The funny thing is with those religious mandates, they should go both ways. I want to honor my mother, but I'm not so sure she understands that she should honor those who are helping her as well. I'm keeping up my end of the pact regardless of whether she does or not. However, based on your and others' comments, I do need to stand up and set boundaries. I'm letting my fear from childhood (repercussions of speaking up) get in the way.

Both of the cancers are easily treatable with oral meds. She's on oxygen 24/7, and her vitals are all excellent. Better than mine even. My guess is that her lack of activity will cause her eventual death. She will become bedridden for real, and won't be able to fend off a simple virus.
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Hoarding is a mental illness.

What mental health services is she receiving?

Folks who are mentally ill generally need more support than us mere mortals, their adult children, can give. Did your father cater to her every whim?

"Honoring" your mentally ill parent does not mean saying yes to their every request; nor does it require that we tolerate unhygienic conditions in our homes.

Start by getting your mother to a geriatric psychiatrist. Then find yourself a therapist who can help you set some healthy boundaries and learn that saying "no" is not the same as disrespect.
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aspires2b Oct 2022
My dad was a saint. Having said that, he typically retreated to his workroom for hours/days on end, presumably to get away from her. He was unable to confront her, or rather unwilling to feel her wrath for disagreeing with anything she said.

You're right, she should see a therapist. But she is the poster child for stigmatizing mental illness. I suggested it about 10 years ago, and she wouldn't speak to me for 18 months. But my seeing a therapist would definitely be beneficial in helping me overcome my fears and establish those boundaries.
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Put the dog outside. Quit responding to mom's annoying requests. As in NO, we don't make special meals for you, we don't jump at the sound of her texts hitting your phone. And haul her out of the room in YOUR house weekly to clean it up. I'd be inclined to put her out with the dog during clean-up time. If her old self reappears (sounds like a modified version is already in place) arrange for her to live elsewhere, like family care home. Honoring a parent doesn't mean dishonoring yourself and your needs.
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aspires2b Oct 2022
I think there's a lot of passive-aggressiveness going on. Yes, she is pleasant, but yes, she's definitely requesting things that we wouldn't typically do. I mean, it's hard enough to get something for dinner on the table (er, I mean on her tray that we take to her bedside), let alone defending why I didn't provide a side salad, warm dinner roll, and dessert along with the smoked fresh salmon, vegetable and homemade scalloped potatoes. She claims that she needs those things so she has enough weight on her to withstand cancer. Oh, the guilt trip :(
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What does your husband think about having a lazy, self-absorbed, rude hoarder taking up residence in his home, apparently for the foreseeable future?
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aspires2b Oct 2022
He is not at all happy with her lounging in bed and not making any attempt to improve her situation. He is much more inclined to be direct with her, but every time he does that, she "confides" in me that "all she wants is peace" and could I please help him to "understand her situation" a little better. I don't play that game. I support my husband, and he supports me unconditionally. But still, it makes me uncomfortable when he speaks in a direct way with her because then I have to deal with unwanted conflict :(
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I think you know what is reasonable, you take Mom to medical appointments, she is expected to keep her room clean as per your standards or at least help with cleaning and no hoarding.
As per 4 course meals, unless you have cook and cleaner, one course is good.
Realize now, medical appointments, treatments with aging, progression of disease are full time job, you have another job, you going to need some help.
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aspires2b Oct 2022
Just gotta re-set expectations without bringing out the toxic reactions...

It's really hard for someone to clean their room if they won't get out of bed LOL Maybe that's why?
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No one should live with the pee of a parent’s dog. Do you really believe that the “honor thy parents” thing demands anything like that? If so, where does it stop? When the dog pees on your best tablecloth? When the dog pees on you? Does honoring thy parents require that you clean up the dog’s pee? I’m taking this to a ridiculous extreme in trying to make a point: honoring your parents needs to stop the minute they stop honoring you. You are not being honored, appreciated or loved. She is mentally ill. Stop honoring the dog, too.
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SnoopyLove Oct 2022
Yes! Taking it to the extreme shows the sad absurdity of the situation that has overtaken poor OP!

And of course with an untrained dog, urine isn’t all the OP is dealing with. . .
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"...she is the poster child for stigmatizing mental illness. I suggested it about 10 years ago, and she wouldn't speak to me for 18 months."

So...

Mischievous thoughts aside, your mother is taking the mickey. What was the understanding about next steps when she moved in five months ago?
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aspires2b Oct 2022
The understanding was that she would be living independently, with support from us as needed. But it's really hard to be independent when you won't get out of bed except to go to the bathroom ;)
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I had a wonderful caring mother all my life. I took care of her for 22 years with honor and love. She passed in January 2022. It was not an easy job but I was able to do it because we had a loving relationship and my mother was extremely easygoing. That part was never difficult.
In your situation, I would never take care of a person that was demanding, had poor hygiene, and I would find it difficult if my childhood was poor. Caregiving is difficult enough with a wonderful loved one let alone a toxic one. I would not do it. God does not expect you to be abused, live in filth from another, get exhausted, or neglect your family. It will only get more difficult as time goes on. I feel sorry for your mother with all her health issues but if you keep this present situation you will develop health conditions yourself if not already.
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aspires2b Oct 2022
What a wonderful testimony to how rewarding (yet challenging) caregiving can be! I'm genuinely so happy that you had such a good experience.

It was such an immediate crisis that I really didn't have time to think about it. She has been pleasant, but now I'm starting to see that demands are demands, regardless of whether they are delivered in a pleasant manner or not.

I have actually already taken a mental health leave from my job. I can't quit because we depend on both of our salaries, but I have to go back soon and can't imagine how I'm going to make it.
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Aspire, unfortunately there are *many* posts on this forum like yours: OP moves in abusive/toxic parent (you say your mother was toxic in your childhood) and, not surprisingly, things don’t go well. I kind of wish it were possible to somehow mandate therapy for all adult children of difficult parents *before* they move them in to their homes!
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You wrote:
"Just gotta re-set expectations without bringing out the toxic reactions..."

So she has a toxic reaction.

So what?

Let her have a meltdown. If it's really bad, call 911 and have her transported to the hospital.

Your mother lied to you-made her medical situation and the DOG'S medical situation sound dire. You swooped in and now you are paying a heavy price for falling for her manipulation and your conflict-aversion (learned at your father's knee).

Your mom needs to be told that as she isn't holding up her end of the bargain, she will need to reside elsewhere by the end of November.

Who holds her POA for finances? Is she Medicaid eligible or does she have funds to pay for Independent or Assisted Living?
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How is she purchasing things to hoard? You are allowing her to abuse you. One boundary you can set now is to inform her that you will clean out objects in her room. Start small then increase. After all she stays in bed all day. If she wants to collect her items from the trash, she will have to get some exercise. Make sure it becomes a long walk. 😎 Same goes for food. Serve her what you all have. Think about this when she is hospitalized. Meal choices are limited. Geezh, if she was leaning on the call bell, staff get wise to her calls.
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There is a difference between "honoring" your parent and being enslaved by them.
"Honoring" goes both ways.
She is not honoring the care that you are giving her, the house that you are allowing her to live in.
Meals are to be served in the appropriate place at the appropriate time. Family members are given the food that the person that is cooking has prepared.
(did you make separate meals for your kids? Did your mom when you were gowning up make you a different meal if you did not like what she made?..I bet not)
If she is physically able then she also has "chores" that she needs to do.
Setting the table, clearing the table, doing dishes and her own laundry and cleaning her own space.
that gets me to her space. She cleans it or she is out. Hoarding is a psychological problem not just a "I can't throw things away" problem and she should get help with that.
Once these boundaries are set if her "Old self appears" even more reason for her to find other housing. This is obviously something she can control.
would you put up with this behavior from one of your kids? Would she have put up with it from you when you were younger? If no then why do you?
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Based on your replies below it sounds like you have become your father. Pacifying your mother so she doesn't have an outburst or create chaos. Walking on egg shells in your own home. Very sad. And her poor dog must be miserable living in that filth.

If you can't do it for you or your husband do it for that dog. He can't speak up for himself. The bible does not tell anyine to look the other way when someone is abusing a helpless person or animal.

There is a reason the meek inherit the earth and its because they stand up for justice and protect the innocent. Meek like many other parts of the scriptures has been misinterpreted in modern times and definitions to mean the opposite of what the authors of the bible intended and what the meaning was thousands of years ago.

I suggest looking for placement for your mother ASAP.
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#1. In an effort to avoid conflict at all costs and "not bring out the toxic reactions" in your mother, you're allowing her to run YOUR home, pretending to be "independent" while laying in bed all day, demanding 4 course meals on a strict schedule to boot! I'd like to think this is a joke and you're pulling our collective leg, but I fear it's not. You're deathly afraid of your mother and she's playing that card to THE HILT.

#2. What sort of doctor tells a woman with advanced COPD, colon and breast cancer that none of those diseases are going to kill her? At 87. When advanced COPD ALONE is terminal and will kill a person sooner rather than later. Somebody's pulling somebody else's leg, aka Lying.

#3. How is an 87 year old woman who's firing out texts demanding a response to her requests immediately (within 2 minutes or she starts texting me "did you receive my text," "where are you," "what are you doing--I need you now," etc.)." "relatively pleasant"? Last I heard, Queen Elizabeth died and didn't appoint your mother as her successor. But you're asking her "how high" when she screams "jump" so there's that little issue to keep in mind: you're extreme fear of your mother & refusal to say No.

This isn't about "honoring" your parents or any such thing. This is about your fear of standing up to a bully and getting her and her dog out of your house now and into managed care of some sort where she pays others to put up with her atrocious behavior and self indulgent habits. (Which of course nobody will do bc her demands are just THAT outrageous!)

My suggestion is to get some therapy to help you figure out how to do that very thing. Or get your husband to read her the riot act and help her pack her bags. Her vacation in your home has just reached an end & it's check out time.

Good luck taking your life and your home back!
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I'm not sure how Christ-like it is to blame someone with colon and breast cancer for their illness, call them a slob, toxic, and wonder if they're milking their situation for attention -- all while claiming to "honor" them.

I'd rather be in a nursing home than in such "loving" care. Perhaps you should consider that option for everyone's sanity.
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sp19690 Oct 2022
Funny Jesus never had to deal with hoarders or toxic and abusive parents. Shame on you for trying to shame her with religion.

The mother is a slob and a hoarder and has a toxic personality. But because the OP has guilt involving religion she feels like she has to have her mother live under her roof because her religion demands it based on honoring her mother. It's stupid but all religions are pretty stupid when you actually start examining them.
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Aspire, the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is often recommended on this forum and you might like to pick it up or perhaps look up YouTube videos or podcasts about it. It’s about the importance of setting boundaries in the context of interpersonal relationships and is from a Christian perspective.

It’s been awhile since I read the book but I remember one part discussing the story of the Good Samaritan, humorously retelling it as if the Good Samaritan *didn’t* have any boundaries. For example, instead of leaving the beaten man in the good care of the innkeeper with instructions and money to care for him in his absence as he resumes his own business, the GS allows himself to be guilt-tripped against his better judgment into staying with the man, thereby missing an important camel-buying appointment or something, eventually losing his temper as the beaten man becomes increasingly needy and manipulative, etc. as so often can happen when we don’t set good boundaries from the get-go! I’ve thought of that illustration often over the years as that is my own tendency.🤨
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1stly, you are not the first & won't be the last - to step in to help but found you stepped into a deep & sticky bog. 😩 I do sympathise!

Don't dispare - but don't get too stuck. It is good to look around properly now to see where you are. Then reassess.
Then plan your steps OUT.

2ndly...
"I'm a Christ follower who passionately believes in "honoring my mother and father"

Please speak to your Pastor/Minister/Church Elder about this issue.

Honour: means respect.

It does not mean you need to provide housing, does not mean provide hands-on care, does not mean you need to forfil every want, wish or whim.

I seriously don't get why this word 'honour' has been so misused..

Anyway, speak to your church about this word & how you want to show 'honour' (without sinking into depression, suffering your own health crises, losing your job or watch your DH leave).

3rdly, boundaries. Yes read the Boundaries Book! ASAP. It really helped me & so many others. Recommend +++

The new boundary may well be your front door!

As living with you is clearly not going to work out, finding a new home for Mom may well be the answer.
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Ugh, your life is going to be hell. Send her back where she came from. Don't let her lifetime of stupid decisions ruin your life.

Elderly parents that cannot manage their own lives belong in facilities, not in their children's homes destroying their lives.
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The Book of Exodus chapter 20 says that Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from the mountain a very long time ago. ‘Honor thy father and your mother’ was the instruction at a time when there was no age pension, and old people died following malnutrition. You are unlikely to go by the next few chapters of Exodus, as literal instructions on how to live now? You now honor your mother just by paying taxes, even more if you see that she has reasonable care.

Did you actually hear a doctor saying that her ailments “won’t kill her”? Was ‘soon’ added on? Or was it just her take on the situation?

You say “I fear that if I try to set boundaries, her old self will re-appear”. The bad new is that it already has. Do you really want to relive your childhood with a ‘toxic mother’?
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babsjvd Oct 2022
Oh the memories!
My SIL citing scripture when I down right refused to do caregiving for my MIL. Put my foot down with my husband doing it as well…(I knew, I would be the one called for diaper issues, no not going there)
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"I have actually already taken a mental health leave from my job. I can't quit because we depend on both of our salaries, but I have to go back soon and can't imagine how I'm going to make it."

Is your mother all right to leave at home all day when you return to work? What will happen if she calls you endlessly throughout the day? Will she require caregivers? If so, who is going to pay for that? (It should be HER.) And what happens if she refuses to allow them? Her plan is for you to quit your job to be her fulltime 24/7/365 caregiving slave. Is that going to happen?

What's the deal with your "belligerent and dramatic" sibling?

What is your mother's financial status? Could she become Medicaid-eligible? Do you have POA/HCPOA?

Your father wasn't such a saint, if he allowed your mother to treat you as she did when you were growing up.

When a crisis occurs and she requires hospitalization, that will be your golden opportunity to tell the discharge planner that she cannot return to your home, because you cannot take care of her. Would you do as Barb suggested, and tell her she has to go somewhere else by November? I suspect you won't.
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Beatty Oct 2022
"Your father wasn't such a saint"... dare I say a little bit ostrich? Head in sand, turn the other way etc.

Being married to someone with any kind of anxiety, OCD, mental illness etc teaches many to be avoid confrontations at all costs 8 am sure. just to get a peaceful day!
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If someone is dependent upon me to fix their meals, dammit, they are going to eat whatever I'm cooking for myself! If she has a meltdown, just close her door and turn up your TV. Let her scream. Turn your phone on silent so that you won't hear it dinging from her texting tirade.

If she is able to get out of bed, she needs to be getting up and out of bed. Perhaps you need to hold the threat of "putting her into an SNF" over her head to get more of the "desired behavior."

Of course, all of this would be different if she was TRULY bed bound.

I'm a huge dog lover, but I would NOT tolerate the dog pee. If you have a fenced yard, he needs to be outside for several hours a day. Then he should be gated with pee pads into an easy to clean area like a laundry room, bathroom or garage.
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I can see not wanting to rock the boat but you are an adult with a mother who knows how to manipulate a situation. I applaud your husband. I would ask for one of her doctors for an order for in home PT/OT. Medicare should pay for it. This way Mom will get evaluated for what she can and can't do. Should she be alone when u go back to work? Can she make a bowl of cereal or sandwich on her own? If not, then decisions will need to be made an aide during the day or AL both at her expense?

Look at it this way, you are disabling her by serving her in her room. If she is capable of getting around, she needs to get up and move. She is told meal is ready at the table. If she complaines, she would be told "can't get better if you don't get up and move".

Tell Mom you will be going back to work. This means that the waiting on her hand and foot will be stopping. That at least 10 hrs of your day will be getting ready, driving to and from and working. When you come home, there will be no 4 course dinners. Its whatever you can throw together. Clean up and then some down time for you before bed. If she feels she cannot do for herself during the day, then again SHE can hire a caregiver or go to Assisted Living on her dime. Going back to work is the best time to set boundries. Tell her she has had it good the last 4 months, but that now it has to change.

The book Boundries is Christian based. The one thing my daughter liked in it was "When saying No, you are not responsible for the reaction you get"

Those doctor appts. If Mom is stable and medications seem to be working, then I would see about cutting down on those appts. Drs do tend to milk Medicare. You can't be expected once u go back to work to cart her here or there. If the appts are local, take advantage of Senior bussing. Really, I think Mom should go to an AL ifvshe can afford it. They have transportation to appts and shopping.

Trying to appease her is not going to work forever. You will suffer from trying. You need to learn the word No and let her have her fits. Maybe she will hate living there so much that she will want to leave. My brother asked me one time how I got rid of my kids, I said I B***h. Even after my niece left home, she came over to drop off her dog and my SIL made her breakfast and packed her lunch. When she came to p/u the dog she stayed for dinner. My nephew, he is still living home at the age of 35. Why, because Mom waits on him. Why get married and move away.
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She needs you more than you need her. Tell her to get rid of the dog if she does not get rid of the dog call adult protective. Then have the dog hauled off by animal control. You do not have to meet unreasonable demands let her tantrum and ignore it. You have the upper hand use it.
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sp19690 Oct 2022
I think getting rid of mom and keeping the dog is a better solution. The dog doesn't treat her like a slave, demand 4 course meals or hoard crap in his room. With mom out if the picture dog will become a little gentleman with some potty training. Mom will never be potty trained again.
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Your mother sounds very manipulative to the max. Get rid of that peeing dog for starters. That hoarding would have to go. It is your house. Mom will have to clean up her act or find a new place to live. No, you do not have to prepare four course meals. She either eats what you eat. If she doesn't like it, she can order Grubhub on her dime.

The honor your mother and father commandment is about respect. However, I prefer the New Testament. It has very good sound advice, and it works.

In response to aspires2b, there is a scripture to this one. Ephesians 6:4. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.
New Living Translation.

All the good stuff can be found in the New Testament.

I also believe that our God given insight is bestowed in us by the Holy Spirit. It doesn't make us mean people to say no. God does not expect us to sacrifice ourselves to selfish people to the detriment of our own destruction. A priest told me years ago when I was just barely out of my teens that you have to draw the line with some people.
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MargaretMcKen Oct 2022
If you want to know ‘the good stuff’ about honor in the New Testament, check Matthew 12: 46 to 50, and Mark 3: 31 to 35. And check for respectful (or any?) references to Joseph.
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