How have other members dealt with guilt/shame that comes with putting up boundaries with needy/entitled/mentally ill parent?

I am glad you are in therapy.
Has your therapist told you that guilt and shame is inappropriate because guilt belongs to people who, with malice aforethought, CREATE suffering for others and take joy in that? You did NOT cause this and you CANNOT cure it.
The other G-word is for you. It's grief that your Mom is mentally ill and you are suffering for it as well as she is.
If your therapist has not yet explained the difference between guilt and grief it may be time to look for another therapist.
I always recommend Liz Scheier's excellent memoir, Never Simple, to those dealing with mental illness in a family member. Ms. S. spent the most of her life try to help/deal with a mentally ill Mom and used the entire forces of social workers throughout the city and state of New York ALL TO NO AVAIL. Her Mom passed homeless, addicted and mentally ill, but not before doing great destruction to her family.
Your obligation is to yourself and your family. Your Mom may be beyond help, and there may be nothing you can do for her, but YOU CAN DO THINGS for yourself and your family.
I would leave off talking of guilt and shame and begin talking of what you will do to keep your immediate nuclear family safe and sane.
I know that there is great pain in accepting that grief has landed on your doorstep. While the word "guilt" insinuates that there is something to be done to change things, the word "grief" understands that there is little to do but mourn a circumstance that you did not cause and cannot cure. Please be certain that you have a very grounded in reality therapist to see you through moving on to a healthy life for yourself and your child. You have a three year old. You already know what a legacy is left by allowing a mentally ill Mom rule the roost; it isn't something you can afford to pass on to the next generation.
I am not saying there will not be tears. That is what life is. Half joy and half tears. I am sorry for your pain and I wish you the very best.

Denchen, you have a mentally ill parent. She will only change when she is motivated HERSELF to Institute change, or when an accident/illness forces a change in her circumstances.

(Has someone suggested you read Liz Sceier's "Never Simple"?

As for guilt/shame/torment, why do you think that part of your role in life is as mom's caretaker?

Clearly, that's what your mom groomed you to be, via F.O.G.-Fear, Obligation and Guilt, but it’s not your actual obligation.

Your obligation is to your minor child.

Parenting is an obligation that is paid forward, not reciprocally.

You can only change your own behavior. Your mom is "stuck" and will remain there until her stubbornness puts her in a facility.

Spoiler alert: Ms Scheier's mentally ill mom expected her rent paid, food and smokes delivered and endless adulation from her daughter.

When Ms. Scheier backed away and allowed the professionals to take over, she got to see with clarity just how unable her mom was to accept help from anyone when it wasn't strictly on her own terms. This has to do with deeply seated pathology that is difficult to address.

I would continue your therapy, alone without her.

You are not powerful enough to change her, it is you who can change. You are stuck because you think you have to live your life like how you perceive others do, who by the way do not have a perfect relationship with their parents either. Read around here you will better understand what I am saying.

There is a fantasy thought that is creating these unsettled thoughts and keeping you in this unhealthy mindset.

Good Luck!

The road to living a life free (or as free as you can allow yourself to be, the choice is yours) of guilt and shame starts with you and only you.

It took me many years to tear apart and dismantle releasing fear, guilt and shame from my body. Everyday I made a conscious choice to observe and stalk my thoughts, emotions, behaviors and actions.

To me (this is my experience only) thoughts lead to emotions which lead to behavior and action. The stories I tell myself create my thoughts. The inner dialogue in my head which tells stories come from how I was raised, ancestral trauma/programming, and culture/society programming.

At our center we are love. The stories we tell ourselves doesn’t believe this. As we can begin to stalk and observe our thoughts, emotions and actions - we can start to see patterns in the stories we tell ourselves and start to reprogram our brain.

As we begin to reprogram our brain we can see where we leak energy and start to call it back to us, along with our power. When we live in guilt and shame, we’re giving away our power. Not only our personal power, but we are also disempowering the other person. People make decisions and choices (as is their free will) and we need to allow them do as they feel is best. Once you’re able to accept that people have free will to do as they please regardless of the consequences in their life, it’s easier to set boundaries and honor them without guilt.

It is so much deeper than anything in this post. It takes everyday dedication and determination to get free in our body. Lots of shifting, shedding and growing need to happen, but it is possible.

You are in therapy which is a very healthy thing to be doing and your mother is a therapist. So both of you know there cannot be an enabler (you) and that if a person really wants help to change, they must be willing to help themselves (mom).
A lot of us here have a situation similar to yours where there's a parent who wants to wallow in their own misery and rot, but also expects their adult child to become a care slave who waits on them hand and foot.
I call this abusive neediness. A person can actually create a level of neediness that becomes manipulation and abuse to the people closest to them.
It's a good thing that you realize and refuse to be mom's enabler and play her abusive games. This is what's best for you and her.
There are many parents out there who don't understand that their kids cannot be their whole life. It's not fair to their kids. You are not wrong to refuse to be your mother's everything. You're actually helping her by refusing.
I didn't see or speak to my own mother for six years and didn't even have her at my wedding. Yes, she has depression and mental illness but always refused treatment. I moved in with her to help a few years ago. Now I am going because we cannot live together. It's not because she's elderly and needs help. It's because she abuses being needy and expects a care slave. I've done enough for her and have set up homecare. She can either accept it and have a relationship with me and her family or she can continue as she is and get placed in a care facility.
Have I felt guilt over this decision? Of course. But I choose my husband and child over my mother and that's not wrong.
It is not wrong for you to choose yours over mother either. She also knows this. The feelings of guilt will come. Let them come and then they will go. You're still making the healthy and right decision. That will not change no matter how much guilt or shame you may feel.

Its called setting boundries for yourself. Mom will try to continue to cross them, but you stand firm. Your family is your #1 concern. You don't want to look back in 15 years and say to yourself "I missed my son's life because I cared for my mother." He and you husband comes before your mother. She is 70 and a professional. She should be able to use a laptop. She can order anything she needs. If she has money, she can pay for someone to come in and help her and run her errands. You have enough on your plate. You just need to keep saying No Mom I can't do that for you. No, I can't come over right now. What you need to realize, if you haven't already, is Mom needs to work this all out on her own. Its up to her to see a therapist. Its up to her to get PT into her home. Its up to her to allow her doctor to get her into Rehab. Its not up to you. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. I would tell her thats its a shame she can't enjoy the grandson she has. Three is such a cute age. Tell her you all could do so much more as a family if she would just do the work needed to make her healthy again. You can support but don't enable or disable her.

My Mom, I did not realize it then, but I set boundries. I get overwhelmed if there is not some kind of order. So when Mom could not drive anymore we set up a day for shopping and running errands. I still worked, so appts were made around my schedule. My Mom was involved in her Church and had friends who were widows too. If I was going to the store, I would call and ask if she needed anything. We shared the same pharmacist so no problem picking up prescriptions. My one rule was not calling me at work unless it was an emergency. Oh, if she had a prescription to be picked up and knew it could be done on my way home, that was OK.

Have you thought about suggesting an Assisted Living to Mom if she can afford it? She will need to downsize but there will be a Nurse on duty. She will have aides. People to eat meals with and some Socialization. ALs usually have transportation to doctor visits. Activities and they bring entertainment in. This would take alot of responsibility off you. You will know she is safe and watched over.

No is a one word sentence
When saying No, you are not responsible for the reaction you get.*
My mantra....I am here to help people find a way, not be the way.

*this phrase comes from the book Boundries by Townsend and Cloud. Its Christian based but is a good book my daughter says. You may want to read it.

I think your answers lie in less contact and less explaining yourself to mom. I have a mentally ill sibling, have put boundaries in place, one of which is that I don’t owe him any explanations for my choices. I also limit my exposure to his toxic behavior. Understand that mom making any changes is on her and accept that though you can be encouraging, you don’t control and aren’t responsible for her choices. I wish you peace in this

you can't let your mother shape your whole life.

So much good advice already given!

Sometimes, you just have to accept that you are feeling some grief/guilt/shame/regret…and shrug it off. “Sit with it,” as they say, but know that you don’t need to beat yourself up.

The often-recommended book on boundaries, by Henry Cloud and some other therapist (can’t recall name) is a winner. I went to high school with Dr. Cloud…he is a genius! Read the book, and set those boundaries!

63 is SOOO young! So, she was physically active for years & not now? Depressed over ..the divorce? Not able to check herself.
How long has she been smoking? My Mom was a (chain)cigar smoker. Dear God! I will never get this stench out of my memory!!!
Your Mom is financially stable (as was my Mom) but not able to wake up in the AM, and look at each day with gratitude--allow us to help her make a game plan-accept in help. My Mom passed day after Christmas at 79. 27 days ago.
I was feeling as you are. My Kids are grown, but not married. No G-Kids. I had talks with myself. As much as I am a giving person, I was not willing to sacrifice my relationships with my Kids, other F & F....my career, my outlook on life. I worked too hard to maintain & raise myself up over the decades. (I have lived 2 hrs away since College..in my 50's now)
63?! No excuse for not getting out & walking...doing some strength training. Can you find a class for her? A gym? No friends? Not neighborly. Anyone who lives close that can talk to her? She is wanting to decline all the more? She expects you to swing in with 63 safety nets for her? Ticks me off!
***YOU deserve a life. A life outside of her!!! A life with your Hubs/Children/Careers/Activities! I feel you. Every time the guilt started creeping in (often), I reminded myself of all the negativity she spewed. We couldn't have been anymore different as people. She tried hard to destroy rest of my life. God & the Universe had other plans.
I will always carry with me "some" good memories, but anytime I start(ed) beating up on myself I remind myself what another decade or 2 could've have been like. She would have continued. Didn't want her cleaning gal back in. No friends. Negative comments all the day long. Sedentary. Bored. Complaining. Tell your Mom: "these are the things I can do for you. I cannot do all. It takes a village & YOU are going to need to embrace help & become more active." My Mom would tell me "You can do more, you just don't want to." So crappy of a Parent to say this to their Kids!
Your Mom being happy is HER responsibility, not YOURS. It is a choice she needs to make. If my Mom could see me now purging thru her closets and drawers, she would be yelling at me. My Son does a perfect impersonation of her. He told me "We will always love Nanee, but when was the last time/year she was nice to you?" Hard to see things for what they are when you are caught up with trying to do the best for them, you can: errands/grocery store/trash/dishes/water plants...all amidst non stop complaints...
I told my Mom I am your Daughter, not your Caregiver. If you don't want to insert people into your week now (bc it made her soooo uncomfortable), then the time will come. I had to & still have to slap myself (figuratively).. My Mom was not going to change...but she set herself up for failure!
***Give yourself permission to shine & not feel guilty! YOUR Hubs & Children need you!!! YOU were destined for more than this B.S.!

I think as women we want to 'fix' everything for everybody. But when mental illness is at play, as it is with your mother, such a situation cannot BE fixed. Which leaves us daughters feeling some guilt and shame & helplessness as a result. And THOSE emotions can't be 'fixed' either. So we have to learn how to sit with those feelings, acknowledge them, and agree not to allow them to ruin OUR lives. Yes, we feel somewhat guilty, somewhat shameful, somewhat crappy in general b/c our mothers are mentally ill and we can do nothing to change that situation unless maybe we gave up our ENTIRE lives by moving them in with us (which likely wouldn't work EITHER). Which would ruin our marriages and our children's lives in the process. So that's impossible, and we'd never agree to such a thing, which in turn CREATES the feelings of shame/guilt, etc that we're trying to avoid.


Instead of avoiding them, let's just acknowledge them and absorb them into our psyche's without allowing them to ruin our lives. Mentally ill mothers wreak havoc, yes they do. But we will not allow them to wreak SO much havoc in OUR lives that we succumb to a miserable life as a result.

I had a mentally ill mother myself and spent 64 years of my life feeling somewhat guilty & crappy in general that I wasn't ever 'good enough' or 'doing enough' for her, in spite of the fact that I WAS. She passed away last February, so those feelings have greatly subsided, thank God.

I have a bi-polar step daughter like this who is All Drama All The Time. My DH and I agree to not let HER insane behavior ruin OUR lives. If/when she cares to act like a loving daughter, we're happy to deal with her. Otherwise, have a nice life dear. There's no guilt or shame on our parts due to her mental illness and refusal to acknowledge it or take her medication to control it.

It's just a sad situation for all concerned when mental illness is at play. #Truth

Wishing you the best of luck separating yourself from your mother and acknowledging that her issues are HERS to address, and not yours to fix.

My mother was mentally ill and fortunately looked after herself very well for most of her life, though she did manufacture crises that where she tried to manipulate me to put her first in my life which could have resulted in me leaving university, leaving my family and so on to deal with her and these supposed crises. I didn't do it. I knew from an early age (preschool) that something was very wrong and it wasn't me. I also learned as an young adult that I had to protect myself from my mother.

Now I did have the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt to deal with. You don't get away from a childhood of being raised by a mentally ill mother and and alcoholic father unscathed. I had a lot of anxiety which I still deal with but less and less.

Doing anything out of fear, obligation and guilt is not loving, it is enabling. The guilt is false guilt. You are doing nothing wrong putting yourself and your family first and refusing to engage in this sick dance with your mother. She is making her choices False guilt comes from not meeting the (usually unrealistic) expectations of others - your mother in this case. Her expectations are unhealthy for you and for her. You have to steer the boat into safe waters - for yourself, your family and for her as much as is possible.

It has been mentioned that she may not get better. This is hard to accept. It is hard to see a loved one self destructing. This is where grief comes in. I found once I had accepted that my mother was as she was, I grieved the lack of a nurturing mother in my life, Grieving is painful and sometimes it seems easier to keep the hope of change alive. to avoid the pain of loss. But this just prolongs the dysfunction. You have to go through the pain, you can't go around it As I accepted her as she was and grieved, it began getting easier. Acceptance leads to detachment and emotion distancing which allows then for more comfortable and healthier decision making and choices.

As you have seen, decreasing distance made things worse. She expects more of you and less of herself. Increase the distance as much as you can by reducing the amount of contact. Calling her several times a day is not healthy. Don't justify your choices to her or explain why you have done this or that.

Disengage from her and stop trying to make her understand or change. The more effort you put into that, the less she will. Give her some space to reflect on her choices and the consequences of them. Let her live her life, as unsatisfactory as it is to you, it is her life to live and your life is yours to live. Decide (with your husband) how much and what kind of contact you want with her and stick to that. You don't owe her any explanations. Learn to change the subject, leave when things get uncomfortable, let calls go to voice, mail etc. Don't be ruled by her expectations, be ruled by your own expectations of your own life.

I know it is very difficult, but I also know you can get through this to a better state of mind. You matter, your family matters, your mother matters too, but she is not the first priority for you. You and your family are. I wish you all the best. (((((((hugs))))))

Denchen, your mom is an adult. She has heard from her doctor what the result of her poor health choices will be.

If you continue to engage with her, you will only increase her resistance to change.

Instead, find a response that puts the ball where it belongs--in her court. "It's your choice mom" comes to mind. And "I can't possibly do that" or just "no" when she tries to manipulate you.

Her health, well-being and happiness are outside of your locus of control.

If there is a crisis (fall, illness, suicide threat) call 911. Let the professionals handle her.

Your obligations are to your minor child and spouse. Not your mother.

I goofed. Yes, still young at 70. I have Real Estate colleagues that are still plugging away working & walking & in book clubs & gardening & doting on G Kids. My Mom's neighbor (across the street) from her house is 76. Retired. Lives alone. Has a little dog...is involved with her community, and book club and G Kids ... and is HAPPY!

The only way my LO with needs has learnt to accept help from services & non-family was by withdrawl of family help. ie tough love

Help to arrange online grocery deliveries.
Help to arrange a Dietician.
No to beck & call groceries.

Help to arrange taxis & supported transport.
No to beck & call transport.

Help to arrange home services, cleaning, personal care, maintenance.
No to beck & call requests.

Family will do emergencies. But then 'emergencies' had to be defined. Emergency is not a spilled coffee. Not needing a ride as forgot to arrange or late. Not because they cancelled their non-family help.

Lessons WERE learned plus real enjoyment & acceptance of the new helpers too.

To stay at home, day-to-day needs (ADLs) need to be managed with more independance. Or it's time to look at AL basically.