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Can they take all of the money of the parents monthly income if they res. As POA does he have to give information about where money is spent to the other siblings if they request it? .
Your brother will need to keep accounting records of what money was spent and why. There might come a time where the parent will run out of money and need to apply for Medicaid. Medicaid will do a 5 year financial look back to see how the money was spent.
If your brother is spending the money only on the parents need, then there should not be an issue with applying to Medicaid. Elders can be expensive, just Depends alone can cut into the best of budgets.
Usually the sibling who is doing the bulk of the caregiving [which is exhausting work] will resent the other sibiling(s) questioning how the money is being used. You might try asking if he thinks your parent has enough money to get the parent through, or should the family be thinking about Medicaid for the near future?
The sibling with POA can use the parent's (one parent or two?) income to pay for the parent's expenses. If the parent's living costs exceed his or her income, then yes that could mean all of it quite legitimately.
The sibling with POA is not obliged to account to other children; there is, even, an argument that the parent's finances are confidential and ought not to be disclosed to the other children; but anyone with POA is accountable to whatever public authority is charged in your area with protection of vulnerable adults in this context, and must be able to show that the parent's money was spent solely and exclusively in his or her best interests.
It would be helpful if you could say a little about your concerns: is it fair to assume that you are not satisfied with a sibling's management of your parent's finances, and wish to see the figures? Caution: if you discover that there is in fact a shortfall, and that your sibling is subsidising your parent, will you be first in line to offer help?
If the needs of the parents are being met and the POA can prove (should your parent/parents need Medicaid in the future) that the money is used for the parents care that's likely all that is necessary.
It's often hard to know from afar how much money it takes for the parents' care. If you think that your sibling is mismanaging your parents' money, you could see an elder law attorney, but you are risking a fractured family so you should be very certain that there are grounds for this drastic move and that it's worth it to you. Otherwise, you can assume that your sibling is doing his or her best and concentrate on relationships.
There's no limit (specific dollar amount) that POA can use, and there is no obligation to inform others. If you think your parent is being robbed, you can get APS involved
I was my mother's caregiver for years. I used her money to pay her bills. If anything was left at the end of the month, I put it into a savings account for her. I used my own money for gas (80 mile trip 3x a week), food, her transportation, thousands of dollars in dental care and a surveillance system for her home when she had aides, clothing, etc. I spent my own money instead of hers. Now she's in a nursing home on Medicaid and had to default on all the credit cards anyway. I now wish I had used her money for her care and to pay myself a small stipend instead of paying her bills. The money I saved in an account for her will be used to bury her, and that's it. Most older people don't have a lot of money. You may be surprised about what you find if you look into this.
My sister, who was never involved in my mother's life, but overly interested in her belongings, is no longer speaking to me. I should send her a bill for half of what I spent! Sorry, that was a little off topic.
When a sibling is asking this type of question it's because something seems amiss. While we assume that caregivers, especially a child taking care of a parent, will not take advantage of that elder's finances, this is unfortunately not always the case. If you think something isn't quite right, you should follow your gut and pursue it. I did and found out that my sibling was in fact using the POA to siphon off parent's money directly to her own accounts, living off of parent's credit cards and had changed the beneficiary info to sibling's favor. And though the damage can be undone, it is a long, expensive and emotionally grueling legal process to do so. So, I am in disagreement with any law that says a POA doesn't have to report to other siblings. There should be some checks and balances built in. And, based on my experience, a sibling who doesn't want to report to other siblings is usually up to no good.
I have mixed feeling on a POA reporting to other siblings. On the one hand, I feel everything should be kept above board. One the other hand, if I need help and choose one responsible person to carry out my wishes, why should they report to others as if it's already their money, or as if I'm a child? As a child of an elderly person, on one hand, you want to make sure they're not being taken advantage of. On the other hand, you don't want to look like you're "helicopter parenting" your inheritance, especially if you're not helping with the caregiving.
If I had kids, I think I'd leave most of my money to whichever one was there for me when I needed them. The others could keep "living their life" without my money.
I'm not saying that's your case at all, OP. You're obviously a caring person in a sad situation. I truly wish you the best.
I have POA of my father's assets and have been paying his bills, etc. for a number of years. He has always told me I was not to let my other siblings know how much he has. At times he feels, especially one of my sisters, that all they are interested in is how much money he has. My father is well aware how well his children treat their own money and based on that he made (IMO) a good choice in allowing me to handle his money/assets. The one sister in particular has commented to me that she thought it would make our father "happy" if he gave money to her adult son and his family. I was shocked at this comment. According to my father, she has mentioned to him not only that he give money but how much at times. This is not someone you want to give access to your money as they is a sense of entitlement. My father is confident and he should be, that I know his money is for his care; it is not mine, nor my siblings or anyone in their families. Base on some of her comments, I do think she is resentful that she does not have POA. Dad in his wisdom, knew what he was doing. He does encourage me to take whatever I want as he is grateful for what I do for him. I only take reasonable amounts of cash, not from c/a or any other source as I do know it makes him "happy" to compensate me for my time, etc. No one has asked, or do I feel obligated, to give any accounting for what I am spending on his needs. I know if he would need Medicaid at some point, all that accounting will be available to prove where his money has gone the 5 years before that happens.
I wish that I had a sibling willing and able to take my place as POA and caregiver, and would not begrudge them a cent or expect any accounting from them. I would just be happy and grateful to have my life back.
They should NOTuse their own $ to care for the elderly parent. I was told this many times. You will definitely have to keep records of how the parents' money was spent if indeed the parents have to go on Medicaid b/c of the 5 yr look back.
I think some of you are missing the boat. If you have an irrevocable trust, it usually will say that an annual accounting must be sent to the beneficaries, It's been 6 years,: we have received 2, Now that half of mom's money is gone, we need to hire an attorney to figure this mess out!
The POA cannot make gifts to himself, if that's what you're asking. POA must use the principal's funds and other assets only for the support of the principal. There may be times when the POA is spending a lot of time taking the senior to doctor appointments, or even to a family graduation where they cannot fly by themselves or stay in a hotel by themselves, if there are extensive uses of the POA's own time, for the benefit of the senior, these can be reimbursed by only by the senior. The POA cannot just write themselves a check. And in my state, the POA must be able to provide an accounting to the principal or any beneficiary, but there is no definite requirement for how often this must be, I suspect that a good POA document would specify how often. When I was POA, nobody ever asked me any questions about the money side of things, they are only asking questions now that mom is gone, and I am really viewing their questions as downright silly. There is also the point of being Innocent until Proven Guilty---so I feel they should have some type of evidence or something, why they feel a need to be prying into mom's affairs. If you ask me it is private information.
If the POA document contains a gifting rider, then the POA can do anything he or she wants with the finances. He or she can gift to himself/herself and/or to others as they see fit. I know because that is the type of POA I have and it was drawn up by an attorney.
Check your state laws about the gifting thing---in my state (MN) there is only the federal gift limit allowed, $14,000, and I believe the POA cannot write any to themselves. The state laws overrule the POA document, I believe.
I think some of you misunderstood what I said. My brother set up a trust so mom could get medicaid. The trust stated that he has to provide the beneficaries with an annual record of expenses. Simply stated,400,000 disappeared in a couples of years ( one check was for 45,000 for something unknown.). No idea to whom and what for the 400 grand was spent. So, by law of the trust, he has to tell us that info. We have a lawyer..thats how we got the little info we have so far. The lawyer suggested we take him to court- the judge will see he did not fulfill his obligation and POA- demand an accounting and possibly remove him as POA.
Another thing..Mom should have received Medicaid over a year ago and she does not have it yet...so, What happened???? If my brother was taking the money out for her care, that $$ counts towards her income and therefore the medicaid look back period starts over again...So every month we are starting over. His plans did not work out and mom is living longer than he thought. She ran out of money and had to go to the trust to pay for care thus making her ineligible for medicaid..Karma will get him if he hasnt already!
Megan2014 if your mom has applied for Medicaid, I think the facilities will make arrangements for her, as long as they are kept apprised of the application, and certainly if there is a court case, they could even be party to this case since their bills have to be paid.
In California you can be assisted financially in caring for your parent(s) if it is full-time care for disability and/or elderly in-home care. I personally think putting together a financial sheet each month that shows income and expenses of their parent(s) care is important for all siblings to have. At the very least it gives peace of mind if there is any question by law authority as to where monies have gone. If your siblings do not approve of the expenses (not to be confused with debt), then that would be something that should be discussed with each other. But withholding information can be just as dangerous as lying. I'm all for the up-front scenario, even if nothing will ever be perfect.
A very interesting question. In a related matter, my brother-in laws' financial adviser and executor counseled that his future heirs should distribute a significant portion of his holdings to themselves in advance of his death solely for tax purposes. This idea was a good one; doing so would save his estate considerable money with no impact on his care. Unfortunately, such an entirely legit and normal transfer is called a 'gift' under the tax codes. And that is a term that cost his heirs many thousands of $. That tax-related use of the word 'gift' referrers only to taxable assets and how they are classified by the IRS. Because the term 'gift' meant to some of them such a transaction was somehow an underhanded action was plainly dishonest, they wouldn't even think of doing so. His executor carefully explained the advantages and disadvantages of doing so. Knowing my in laws, I quickly realized the intent of his clear advice. After a stunned silence, I quickly re-phrased his reasoning at some length to make it more clear to them to better understand. When I finished, the trusted executor nodded his head, and told them that everything I said was truthful and that he approved. Still, the in-law's view prevailed in large part because of the word 'gift' being not understood. In the end, his heirs received much less than otherwise. But they were very happy.
I live in Texas and take care of my Mom, my brother is in Ohio and is POA of her money. He sends me a check for $150. a month for taking care of her. She does have checks she uses to shop with. We are getting financially strapped! How do I ask for more money without hurting feelings?
None of us should guess what state laws or regulations apply in your case. Talk with your attorney or a trusted estate attorney. Include your siblings in the conversation unless you want to deceive them somehow.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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If your brother is spending the money only on the parents need, then there should not be an issue with applying to Medicaid. Elders can be expensive, just Depends alone can cut into the best of budgets.
Usually the sibling who is doing the bulk of the caregiving [which is exhausting work] will resent the other sibiling(s) questioning how the money is being used. You might try asking if he thinks your parent has enough money to get the parent through, or should the family be thinking about Medicaid for the near future?
The sibling with POA is not obliged to account to other children; there is, even, an argument that the parent's finances are confidential and ought not to be disclosed to the other children; but anyone with POA is accountable to whatever public authority is charged in your area with protection of vulnerable adults in this context, and must be able to show that the parent's money was spent solely and exclusively in his or her best interests.
It would be helpful if you could say a little about your concerns: is it fair to assume that you are not satisfied with a sibling's management of your parent's finances, and wish to see the figures? Caution: if you discover that there is in fact a shortfall, and that your sibling is subsidising your parent, will you be first in line to offer help?
It's often hard to know from afar how much money it takes for the parents' care. If you think that your sibling is mismanaging your parents' money, you could see an elder law attorney, but you are risking a fractured family so you should be very certain that there are grounds for this drastic move and that it's worth it to you. Otherwise, you can assume that your sibling is doing his or her best and concentrate on relationships.
I hope that this works out for all of you.
Carol
I was my mother's caregiver for years. I used her money to pay her bills. If anything was left at the end of the month, I put it into a savings account for her. I used my own money for gas (80 mile trip 3x a week), food, her transportation, thousands of dollars in dental care and a surveillance system for her home when she had aides, clothing, etc. I spent my own money instead of hers. Now she's in a nursing home on Medicaid and had to default on all the credit cards anyway. I now wish I had used her money for her care and to pay myself a small stipend instead of paying her bills. The money I saved in an account for her will be used to bury her, and that's it. Most older people don't have a lot of money. You may be surprised about what you find if you look into this.
My sister, who was never involved in my mother's life, but overly interested in her belongings, is no longer speaking to me. I should send her a bill for half of what I spent! Sorry, that was a little off topic.
If I had kids, I think I'd leave most of my money to whichever one was there for me when I needed them. The others could keep "living their life" without my money.
I'm not saying that's your case at all, OP. You're obviously a caring person in a sad situation. I truly wish you the best.
According to my father, she has mentioned to him not only that he give money but how much at times.
This is not someone you want to give access to your money as they is a sense of entitlement. My father is confident and he should be, that I know his money is for his care; it is not mine, nor my siblings or anyone in their families.
Base on some of her comments, I do think she is resentful that she does not have POA. Dad in his wisdom, knew what he was doing.
He does encourage me to take whatever I want as he is grateful for what I do for him. I only take reasonable amounts of cash, not from c/a or any other source as I do know it makes him "happy" to compensate me for my time, etc.
No one has asked, or do I feel obligated, to give any accounting for what I am spending on his needs. I know if he would need Medicaid at some point, all that accounting will be available to prove where his money has gone the 5 years before that happens.
We have a lawyer..thats how we got the little info we have so far. The lawyer suggested we take him to court- the judge will see he did not fulfill his obligation and POA- demand an accounting and possibly remove him as POA.
This idea was a good one; doing so would save his estate considerable money with no impact on his care.
Unfortunately, such an entirely legit and normal transfer is called a 'gift' under the tax codes. And that is a term that cost his heirs many thousands of $.
That tax-related use of the word 'gift' referrers only to taxable assets and how they are classified by the IRS. Because the term 'gift' meant to some of them such a transaction was somehow an underhanded action was plainly dishonest, they wouldn't even think of doing so.
His executor carefully explained the advantages and disadvantages of doing so. Knowing my in laws, I quickly realized the intent of his clear advice. After a stunned silence, I quickly re-phrased his reasoning at some length to make it more clear to them to better understand. When I finished, the trusted executor nodded his head, and told them that everything I said was truthful and that he approved.
Still, the in-law's view prevailed in large part because of the word 'gift' being not understood. In the end, his heirs received much less than otherwise. But they were very happy.