My mother has dementia and an angel. My Dad is the NARC, abused our mom and us children. Our parents are 82 years old now, our mom was in the hospital and rehab for 5 months. She was released to our dad who has never cared for her needs and still doesn't. They love in Florida, have since 2012. Our mom and dad are frail and we have gone to court for guardianship over our mom since he mentally still abuses her and neglects her. Our dad is fighting us all the way. He is not allowing us to talk to her and s controlling her. We know we're doing the right thing to protect her and her safety, but are also experiencing so many emotions for going against our dad and fighting him and emotions we just can't understand or pinpoint. Our plan to set parameters on how our dad must care for our mom and if he doesn't then it's due to his neglect that will force our mom out of the home. Overall, we'll bring her back to Indiana and see if we can get them both up here. Our mom is in a lose-lose situation, she requires help with her dementia and colostomy bag but otherwise is in pretty good. She didn't like a nursing home and we don't want her in a nursing home either.
No doubt there are many in your parents situation and adult children are often still intimidated by the abuser and the abused spouse is left to fend for themself. It isn’t always easy to separate them because they both want to be home and even want to be with each other. Thanks for being such great way showers. 🤗
Thanks for your amazing update. I know it must be like a fantasy that your mom is free to live her life without abuse.
I appreciate that after all these years you want more than anything for your beloved parents to coexist in peace.
Since the parents live in Florida where many elders go in retirement,I am wondering if the guardianship rules are more “fluid” for lack of a better word in Florida. This situation doesn’t seem as cut and dried as others I’ve heard of.
I am trying to imagine how an abuser can just let go of the control he has long held over his family seemingly without much pushback. How he could have committed such abuse over at least 58 years and now, because of a judges order, can tame his inner demons to no longer be a threat to your mom’s welfare while at the same time living with her.
Those two personalities seem at odds.
You say your dad is now sitting and doing nothing. Do you think he is in shock that his children stood up to him? Could he perhaps be relieved to no longer be responsible for her care?
You wrote in your original post
“Our plan to set parameters on how our dad must care for our mom and if he doesn't then it's due to his neglect that will force our mom out of the home.”
Since his only responsibility is feeding her, who is doing the rest of her over-site, helping with the colostomy bag? Is there a caregiver living with them? Perhaps she is so much better she is taking care of it herself? Do you have only your moms word for all this over the phone? Do you also talk with your dad when you check in with mom?
Was it more that he was allowing her to be neglected rather than abusing her directly? It is still abuse, I get that.
I had a similar situation with my in-laws though MIL’s problems were diabetes, cancer and dementia. APS was called by my DH and went nowhere. I think extra eyes on vulnerable elders is always a good idea but I don’t hear very many success stories about intervention with APS. The demented spouse is usually assumed under the control of and the responsibility of the competent spouse regardless of what the adult children think. If guardianship is granted, the incapacitated one is placed where they can be looked after, usually a facility.
I only ask these questions to better understand the situation.
We all learn so much from one another on this forum.
I think it is helpful that you pointed out that the reporting to APS helped the case as they also gave evidence.
Did your brother seek guardianship at APS recommendation?
Is your brother, the guardian, a resident of Florida? I’m wondering how it works that your dad isn’t responsible for your mom now as she has a guardian and yet she is still living with you dad, the abuser. Did your dad have legal representation during the hearing?
In my very limited experience with APS, guardianship, abuse etc., the person who needed so much protection from their abuser as to have another declared a guardian over her would not be left to fend for herself with her abuser, no matter how docile he might appear in the moment and how chipper she seems on the phone. Also in my experience, the one being abused only wanted to be with the abuser which made it very difficult to intervene. Whether that is parent and child or spouses.
I wonder if this is an anomaly or the guardianship mores are changing? I am not trying to say it is wrong, it just seems so different.
It occurred to me as I was reading what I had written that perhaps the guardianship wasn’t to remove her care from her husband so much as it was to assign “someone” guardianship. Was the abuse by your father part of the case or rather the APS story was that mom was self neglecting and thus needed a guardian?
In which case, perhaps others would be more successful if they took that approach. Not blaming dad, just trying to get help for mom … which would seem reasonable except that nothing much has changed with moms living circumstances.
A lot to think about.
When our mom got home, weirdly enough, she was more stable (walking) than we thought and she started cleaning the house, which I had videos of the house that were used in court of how our Dad did not clean and it was disgusting to prove why we needed guardianship. (which again, is why our Dad wanted to get her home from the hospital to care for him.) Our Dad didn't physically abuse our mom over the past 20 years, he was verbally abusive and with her dementia, he would coach her on what to do and say to help his agenda (like your Dad takes good care of me and he says you're mean to him and want us to go to a nursing home). Guardianship wasn't or isn't easy. To win guardianship, we had several witnesses, (medical personnel that was upset with the lack of care from my dad and his bully behavior towards them and my mom), we had a neighbor who testified that she tried to get our mom medical help when she saw my mom fall and my dad refused to get our mom help), we had cousins, we had done a lot of work to prove my dads neglect and abuse. God was definitely guiding us the whole way through, shining light and exposing my dads darkness. At court itself, when our attorney asked him questions, my Dad's bully behavior came out and my Dad even said if he doesn't get his way, he'll get to angry and become a monster ! My dad sunk himself at court.
When our mom was released by mistake to go home to our Dad from the rehabilitation facility, we were so angry. Yet once home, all we could do was go after guardianship and insure she was getting proper care for her wounds, medicine and care of colostomy. Our dad would lie to us about her health and how well or not well she was doing.
I would call daily to the home care nursing and get the correct information on our mom and she would tell me that her wounds were healing, she was gaining strength and her dementia wasn't as bad either. My brother is retired and we both visited for a week and stayed at a friends and our mom WAS better AND capable to cleaning herself, the colostomy, she was no longer on medicine either! Our prayers were being answering! She cannot cook and will never drive again, but she does all household duties of which she was a stay at home mom and always did EVERYTHING and that brought her joy and purpose. She can take out trash, do laundry, clean up after the cat and dog, herself and house. My Dad knew that we were aware that all he chooses to do is make cereal and frozen TV meals for himself and orders food on line to be delivered, other than that, he chooses do nothing else.
When we got guardianship, we are in charge of our mom and get to set the rules. Our dad realizes that he cannot take care of himself (actually chooses not to which is frustrating because he is capable) and HE would have to go to a nursing home without my mom doing all that she does for him and the house.
It isn't easy to deal with all the time, he's sarcastic to us, but he's not nearly as mean to us. Since our mom has been home and with my brother retired, he spends weeks at our parents (my brother owns their home) and he fixes things and keeps an eye on everything and is so thrilled how great our moms health is overall and actually disappointed that our Dads health is declining all because he does absolutely nothing & his legs are loosing strength.
Guardianship is not easy, my brother had to do a class, everything costs money, and he had to separate their banking and quarterly he has do provide reports on money and health of our mom.
We are planning to set up cameras to confirm the health of our mom. Right now, we have neighbors stopping & we facetime
To those answering, see the update below.
It was worth going to court to get my Dad to behave and now my brother is on their accounts (because my Dad wouldn't tell us anything about their accounts before) but with guardianship and court orders, it's been the best way to deal with my Dad. So far, so good. Keep up the prayers!
services and report dad - https://www.myflfamilies.com/services/abuse/adult-protective-services
Thank you
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My dad is verbally abusive which I have first hand experience with as I moved in with him 9 years ago. It got so bad that family members intervened and forcibly removed him from our home. I had become so ill and honestly couldn't take care of him anymore BUT I LOVE HIM with all I have, faults and all and HE LOVES ME. The emotional struggles I have had is unbearable at times and I miss him. One person on the forum said I was suffering from "parental Stockholm Syndrome" and I should be thankful that they took him from me. Many of the answers people posted here say your dad gets what he deserves and to write him off (paraphrased). This is not as simple as it sounds. My dad taught me to float, how to drive, taught me how to fly, took us fishing on every day off... because I am the only daughter with 6 brothers and because I was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes at age 12 and have been permanently disabled since 1987, I got more attention and help than any of them but they still can't understand how much I love him. My emotions are churning over all of this so I understand how awful, terrifying it is when one is spinning out of control over these things. Sweetheart, you are not alone out there. You must allow your heart to help but you also must let your mind consider the ramifications of your choices and make decisions based on the proper balance of the two. I don't know what you believe but with me, reading the Bible, prayer and faith are essential. When people say to " just have faith" I find they can't define what "faith" is. I define it by saying that when my son was in kindergarten he did not sit around wringing his hands worrying about if mommy was going to be there to pick him up after school. He just knew that when he was done he would be picked up. If you haven't asked God if he is real, or need to ask again, then do that. My dad is now in a place that could only be an answer to prayer. It's a home for veterans that is only in our State that is more like assisted living and only cost about $300/mo. A wonderful place. "Faith is not believing God CAN do something. It's believing that He WILL." author unknown...
Ask for help and watch what amazing things He will do. I am finally coming to realize that I can't care for him anymore due to disability and depression that it causes. Thank you for letting me respond to your questions. I think you may know what you need to do. You are already taking steps that you feel are right. Loving your dad from a distance sounds like good advice. Take care of yourself first or caring for someone else will be impossible. Stockholm Syndrome or not, your dad is worth something to you.
Therapy could help you work through a lot of the emotions your experiencing that you don't understand and can't pinpoint. Therapy can also help you navigate the abuse you've endured from your dad. I wish you all the best.
Your Dad, leave him in Fla. If u get guardianship you may also want to see an elder lawyer about splitting your parents assets. Once u get guardianship, get Mom out of that house. Moms SS will need a payee and funds sent to a different acct. If Dad is healthy then he can fend for himself do not bring him to live near you. Your life will be h**l. You need to get away from abusers and Narcs. You cannot allow them in ur life. What you do is make a list of resources available to Dad where he lives. You make sure he has a menu to all the places in his area to eat. I had a widower friend who ate breakfast almost daily at a local diner and dinner later on for years. Dad can do it too. Maybe he will find a girlfriend to do for him. If he is considered independent then leave him. Its not abandonment, its getting Mom out of an abusive situation. He does not deserve your time or energy. He is user, manipulator and an abuser. He deserves to be alone. You can actually just pick up Mom and take her to Indiana and leave Dad behind. What is he going to do? He does not own her. You read about this all the time on the forum where an OP posts family members have taken a parent to another State. Lawyers will not pursue it and either will the police and its very expensive to try.
All you may owe your Dad is a "wellness check" from the police or APS. You can do this anonymously. If APS, they will make sure he has everything he needs. Then he will be put on their radar. If its ever found he needs care and your called, you just say because you were abused as a child, you cannot care for him. That he needs to become a ward of the State of Fla. Then let them take over his care. YOU CAN NEVER CARE FOR HIM!
At the zoom/court hearing yesterday, the judge asked about the Bond money like they were already looking to split their assets and we felt rather positive that we might be gaining guardianship but was told we wouldn't have the decision until Tuesday.
What is APS for my Dad? At this point in my life, I have great love for my Dad. I clearly don't agree with his bad behavior or bad actions, yet we've had good times in the 58 years of my life.
Her condition will not improve. It will only worsen in time. While I think it is wonderful of you to be an advocate for your mother, I feel like you haven’t taken her future needs into consideration. She will eventually need more care.
It is sad that she was dissatisfied in her nursing home. Find out from the staff if there were any legitimate concerns.
If there were issues that you are concerned about, use this information to help you to be selective in choosing another facility.
Best wishes to you and your family.
I have this awful vision of BOTH of them moving in with you. Don't do it...
Giving the OP fair warning is great advice!
Your mother is not able to make sound decisions and they all don't like AL, MC or NH's, it is part of their verbiage, they all want to stay at home.
NH may be the only viable solution for her well-being and to get her away from the abuser.
Good Luck!
You already know that this isn't going to work. Dad is an abuser. Dad has always been an abuser. Dad is not going to stop abusing mom. Mom needs to be protected from dad but trying to get guardianship of her over dad will be very expensive. Plus you have to prove the abuse. Do you have proof?
If you do get control of mom and can move her to where you are she would need to be moved into a facility. As for dad I would leave him to rot in Florida and cut off all contact with him. Abusers who are still abusing vulnerable people do not get help.
As for your emotions in going against dad. That is just your own PTSD talking because you were abused and controlled by this POS your entire life. Allow the uncomfortable and unfamiliar feelings of this battle with dad over mom to come and continue trying to get mom away from this pathetic loser.
Her dementia and medical needs will worsen. Will need 24/7 care eventually. She could live another 10-15 years. Is the plan to have her live with you and hire aides? Who will pay for it? Are you willing to endure the abuse again? Because you won’t heal from PTSD while she is a major part
of your life.
Not all nursing homes are hell holes.